Live valve with an external climb switch is interesting.
(also DH sizing with a climb switch...)
I think the external climb switch is actually used to set the preload amount for the live valve lockout. I’m interested to see if these require a bar mounted switch unlike FA. Seems like most EDR bikes have had one. Seems complicated.
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of...
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.
Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of frames which the derailleur attaches to. Usually, derailleurs aren't that expensive these days but just in case, it's meant to bend instead of allowing the derailleur to break. Because our frame is made of steel, we can usually just bend it back for free! How nice!
Since we moved on to alloy/carbon, we had to make the hanger its own item. We went with aluminum alloy so it's stiff and light, but if you snag up on a rock or cause your bike to go tumbling down the side of a mountain, which happens from time to time, hopefully this twenty to forty dollar piece of metal breaks or bends instead of your derailleur, the price of which is rapidly inflating. Too bad there's a million hangers and none of them work with each other, but hey, that's the cost of providing consumers with a variety of frame designs and materials and varying price points!
OK, so we're trying to simplify things by getting vast swathes of the industry to move to a universal hanger. Great, right? But since we fucking hate you, we're going to make a bunch of them out of shittily moulded plastic riddled with manufacturing defects in our initial runs, thus ensuring that your brand new Trek (for which you waited a year and paid MSRP) is locked out of proper shifting for six to eight months, or whenever the supply chain woes end. Whichever is later!
Actually, forget the whole hanger thing. Now that we got most brands to standardize the mounting interface, we'll skip the hanger and make the derailleur mount directly to the frame. This was expensive to develop, but don't worry, we spent some of that R&D budget ensuring that we integrated both the function of a derailleur and the function of a hanger together: Not only will this thing smoothly and accurately shift under load, we purposely made parts of it kind of weak so it functions as a disposable hanger too! Best of all, instead of replacing that little piece of inexpensive aluminum, you now get to replace a very expensive little piece of aluminum that performed the same job! At least it's less than your $5,499.99 S-Works frame though, right?
BUT WAIT! What if I told you that you could replace those weaker parts of the transmission system with dramatically stronger aftermarket solutions? They'll take those crappy OEM bits and replace them with a colourful piece of CNC glory, and all for the low price of only somewhat more expensive than the OEM replacement! Best of all, those impact forces we were talking about? We figured out a way transfer them directly into your seat stay!
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend...
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend back straight. The downside was I’d would usually bust 3-5 derailleurs and a similar number of hangers per year. I got to a point that I used to bring an extra derailleur on long rides.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of...
Transmission, it's weaknesses, and "solutions" for those weaknesses all seem kind of insane to me.
Hey we have this little uvula looking thing on the back of frames which the derailleur attaches to. Usually, derailleurs aren't that expensive these days but just in case, it's meant to bend instead of allowing the derailleur to break. Because our frame is made of steel, we can usually just bend it back for free! How nice!
Since we moved on to alloy/carbon, we had to make the hanger its own item. We went with aluminum alloy so it's stiff and light, but if you snag up on a rock or cause your bike to go tumbling down the side of a mountain, which happens from time to time, hopefully this twenty to forty dollar piece of metal breaks or bends instead of your derailleur, the price of which is rapidly inflating. Too bad there's a million hangers and none of them work with each other, but hey, that's the cost of providing consumers with a variety of frame designs and materials and varying price points!
OK, so we're trying to simplify things by getting vast swathes of the industry to move to a universal hanger. Great, right? But since we fucking hate you, we're going to make a bunch of them out of shittily moulded plastic riddled with manufacturing defects in our initial runs, thus ensuring that your brand new Trek (for which you waited a year and paid MSRP) is locked out of proper shifting for six to eight months, or whenever the supply chain woes end. Whichever is later!
Actually, forget the whole hanger thing. Now that we got most brands to standardize the mounting interface, we'll skip the hanger and make the derailleur mount directly to the frame. This was expensive to develop, but don't worry, we spent some of that R&D budget ensuring that we integrated both the function of a derailleur and the function of a hanger together: Not only will this thing smoothly and accurately shift under load, we purposely made parts of it kind of weak so it functions as a disposable hanger too! Best of all, instead of replacing that little piece of inexpensive aluminum, you now get to replace a very expensive little piece of aluminum that performed the same job! At least it's less than your $5,499.99 S-Works frame though, right?
BUT WAIT! What if I told you that you could replace those weaker parts of the transmission system with dramatically stronger aftermarket solutions? They'll take those crappy OEM bits and replace them with a colourful piece of CNC glory, and all for the low price of only somewhat more expensive than the OEM replacement! Best of all, those impact forces we were talking about? We figured out a way transfer them directly into your seat stay!
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend...
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend back straight. The downside was I’d would usually bust 3-5 derailleurs and a similar number of hangers per year. I got to a point that I used to bring an extra derailleur on long rides.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
The thing I've learned from all this broken derailleur talk is that I don't ride hard enough.
I think it might be related to choice of derailleur too. I sold my X01 Eagle derailleur to a friend of mine who mounted it to his kid's bike where he says it shifts much better than the one year old GX it replaced. And I'm talking about an X01 that started life on a bike in 2019 and was used up to mid 2023, did over 400k meters of descending, multiple races and was, if nothing else, the only supporting point when I parked my bike sideways straight on the derailleur onto some soil fixating logs on the trail. Only had to straighten the hanger and all was good.
In the webpage that shows the new stumpjumper alloy it also appears the "2025 demo", but I'm pretty sure that's the 2024 color scheme, does that...
In the webpage that shows the new stumpjumper alloy it also appears the "2025 demo", but I'm pretty sure that's the 2024 color scheme, does that means they are just going to try to push that model into 2025 and then release the updated one next year? After all the time that they've been testing the new one with ubb kinda sucks they went that road (if they did), same with the "new" enduro with just the udh upgrade and the thrilling new Matte black color 🥱
2025 demo is on the US site. Some different specs for 25.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
I think it's more about the terrain you ride in and how well you do to miss hitting things.
agreed. the first 2 years i rode DH i went through probably 6 derailleurs a season, then i learned to pick better lines and not smash the hell of out things.
The Live Valve Neo kit includes one rechargeable Controller battery with cover, one Fork Sensor, one Rear Sensor, a FOX battery block, a charging dock with USB-A to USB-C cable, two M6x20mm bolts and two M6x42mm bolts for sensor mounting with either standard or oversized rotors.
CR2032 batteries for Fork and Rear Sensors are included. The rechargeable Controller battery is also compatible with the Transfer Neo dropper post (sold separately).
This kit is required for the operation of Live Valve Neo systems, and is compatible with FLOAT X Live Valve Neo and DHX Live Valve Neo shocks.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
Shimano derailleurs, no matter the group set, are very brittle in my experience. I don’t break them often, probably one every 2 years, but I’d rather strap one to my pack than have my day ruined. Tons of people strap a tube to their bike that they don’t use for years.
Just received the following email from Motion Instruments this morning...
Hello,
We have some unfortunate news to share with you. In 2021, there was a change of control event with Motion Instruments. At the time, this was a game changer for us and gave us the capital needed to accelerate development of a new system built on first principles. The controlling company wanted us to develop a next generation system and continue on as an independent brand. Last Thursday, the Motion Instruments founders, Mike and I, were laid off and the controlling company has no intention of commercializing System2.
We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's next for MI with the controlling company. Unfortunately, until we secure an agreement, there is no way for us to refund your System2 order or give you support for your existing system.
We are very sorry for the situation you are in. It was a real honor and thrill for us to receive your order and hear about the evolution of your setup. In the meantime, the app and system will continue to work as is. So, keep racing and using your product. Mike and I are committed to the brand and business we've built from scratch in our garage. Our customers were our biggest asset, and we'll do everything in our power to make things right.
While we are not sure what's next, we will let you know once we figure it out. In the meantime, we are not doing any career moves until we exhaust every option to make our customers whole.
Thank you for your belief in us and our product. Hopefully we will execute an agreement for this technology to live on as it's the best system ever developed for 2 wheels. Feel free to use my personal email address to ask questions about your refund.
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt:
"We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's next for MI with the controlling company. Unfortunately, until we secure an agreement, there is no way for us to refund your System2 order or give you support for your existing system."
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend...
Sure, you’re right. But, do you guys remember just how bad hangers and derailleurs used to be? The plus side was everything was easy to bend back straight. The downside was I’d would usually bust 3-5 derailleurs and a similar number of hangers per year. I got to a point that I used to bring an extra derailleur on long rides.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile...
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
The thing I've learned from all this broken derailleur talk is that I don't ride hard enough.
It's not just you, they really just don't break. I swapped out the 15 gram UDH that I carry on both of my bikes on the trail (don't even carry the bolt, but just the plastic) and this 11 speed just continues to shift lovely.
Also, 11 speed X01 weighs about .6# less than GX Transmission. I've had both, maybe it's in my head but it feels like the rear suspension just works better on the 11 speed. It also has better clearance, has all steel cassette & is quite affordable.
Manufacturers conspire to eliminate a class of bike to pare down sku bloat. Chaz is proving the concept, why do brands want to make an overbike and a trail bike and an all mountain bike? Cutting out this awkward 170 bike (that everyone claims is overbiking) would save companies millions?!?
My interpretation is the idea of returning EDR to what it was in the beginning. An intent to design courses that better suit a 160mm bike with a 36/Lyrik on it vs a bike that is basically a single crown DH bike.
What round was it that had a boat load of pedalling and complaining of it being too long and tight transitions? More of that.
My interpretation is the idea of returning EDR to what it was in the beginning. An intent to design courses that better suit a 160mm bike...
My interpretation is the idea of returning EDR to what it was in the beginning. An intent to design courses that better suit a 160mm bike with a 36/Lyrik on it vs a bike that is basically a single crown DH bike.
What round was it that had a boat load of pedalling and complaining of it being too long and tight transitions? More of that.
That was finale this year and people were suffering from heat stroke. Everyone from privateers to seasoned pros were complaining about that race and the way too tight liaisons.
0-100mm of travel for XC... meanwhile, among current XC bikes, the Scott Spark, Specialized Epic, and Cannondale Scalpel are all 120mm rear travel. WBD/UCI apparently don't even know what people are currently riding in the disciplines they're trying to standardize.
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt: "We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's...
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt:
"We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's next for MI with the controlling company. Unfortunately, until we secure an agreement, there is no way for us to refund your System2 order or give you support for your existing system."
Me too. So bummed and I really hope Rob and Mike will find a way to get the product to market. "Fortunately" I have already "forgotten" about the money I paid for the System 2...
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt: "We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's...
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt:
"We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's next for MI with the controlling company. Unfortunately, until we secure an agreement, there is no way for us to refund your System2 order or give you support for your existing system."
Me too. So bummed and I really hope Rob and Mike will find a way to get the product to market. "Fortunately" I have already "forgotten"...
Me too. So bummed and I really hope Rob and Mike will find a way to get the product to market. "Fortunately" I have already "forgotten" about the money I paid for the System 2...
If you used a credit card, and it's within the last 6 months, go hit the "dispute" button with your bank. Going by the email it won't be Rob and Mike getting hit with the reversed charges, it'll be the company that took over MI and fired them which gets to involuntarily refund you.
0-100mm of travel for XC... meanwhile, among current XC bikes, the Scott Spark, Specialized Epic, and Cannondale Scalpel are all 120mm rear travel. WBD/UCI apparently don't...
0-100mm of travel for XC... meanwhile, among current XC bikes, the Scott Spark, Specialized Epic, and Cannondale Scalpel are all 120mm rear travel. WBD/UCI apparently don't even know what people are currently riding in the disciplines they're trying to standardize.
And at least a handful of fox sponsored riders are opting for a step cast 34 over the 32
I think the external climb switch is actually used to set the preload amount for the live valve lockout. I’m interested to see if these require a bar mounted switch unlike FA. Seems like most EDR bikes have had one. Seems complicated.
I still bring an extra Deore 11sp derailleur on long rides because I’ve needed it more than once and at $30-$45 each I have a pile of extras laying around. Sadly they do break before a beefy UDH would ever bend but you can have 3 whole derailleurs as backups for the same price as replacement parts for a transmission one. (although I do commend SRAM for making an expensive part with such cheap alternatives rebuildable) Extra in the shuttle truck, extra in my bag of gear/pads. Basically an extra derailleur within arms reach at all times lol.
Extra derailleur strapped to my pack is sprung weight at least.
The thing I've learned from all this broken derailleur talk is that I don't ride hard enough.
I think it might be related to choice of derailleur too. I sold my X01 Eagle derailleur to a friend of mine who mounted it to his kid's bike where he says it shifts much better than the one year old GX it replaced. And I'm talking about an X01 that started life on a bike in 2019 and was used up to mid 2023, did over 400k meters of descending, multiple races and was, if nothing else, the only supporting point when I parked my bike sideways straight on the derailleur onto some soil fixating logs on the trail. Only had to straighten the hanger and all was good.
2025 demo is on the US site. Some different specs for 25.
Demo Race (specialized.com)
Hold up… You carry a spare derailleur when you ride?!? Are your trails on Mount Doom or something?
I think it's more about the terrain you ride in and how well you do to miss hitting things.
agreed. the first 2 years i rode DH i went through probably 6 derailleurs a season, then i learned to pick better lines and not smash the hell of out things.
This also on the Fox website. Should be any day now that these get released.
Live Valve Neo Kit
Default Title
I'm just here to say that I love transmission.
Shimano derailleurs, no matter the group set, are very brittle in my experience. I don’t break them often, probably one every 2 years, but I’d rather strap one to my pack than have my day ruined. Tons of people strap a tube to their bike that they don’t use for years.
Just received the following email from Motion Instruments this morning...
Hello,
Just got an email from Motion Instruments founders saying they were laid off. Excerpt:
"We are currently working to get a contract negotiated to figure out what's next for MI with the controlling company. Unfortunately, until we secure an agreement, there is no way for us to refund your System2 order or give you support for your existing system."
I posted the full email here: https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/will-more-companies-be-shutting-dow…
It's not just you, they really just don't break. I swapped out the 15 gram UDH that I carry on both of my bikes on the trail (don't even carry the bolt, but just the plastic) and this 11 speed just continues to shift lovely.
Also, 11 speed X01 weighs about .6# less than GX Transmission. I've had both, maybe it's in my head but it feels like the rear suspension just works better on the 11 speed. It also has better clearance, has all steel cassette & is quite affordable.
2025 Hightower V4 dropping tomorrow.
Santa Cruz Hightower - Are we there yet? (youtube.com)
This just seems like a generic overview of the different racing disciplines. Where are you guys seeing that they changed the rules?
Hard to tell if the rules are being changed, or just the courses.
tin foil hat time:
Manufacturers conspire to eliminate a class of bike to pare down sku bloat. Chaz is proving the concept, why do brands want to make an overbike and a trail bike and an all mountain bike? Cutting out this awkward 170 bike (that everyone claims is overbiking) would save companies millions?!?
My interpretation is the idea of returning EDR to what it was in the beginning. An intent to design courses that better suit a 160mm bike with a 36/Lyrik on it vs a bike that is basically a single crown DH bike.
What round was it that had a boat load of pedalling and complaining of it being too long and tight transitions? More of that.
That was finale this year and people were suffering from heat stroke. Everyone from privateers to seasoned pros were complaining about that race and the way too tight liaisons.
0-100mm of travel for XC... meanwhile, among current XC bikes, the Scott Spark, Specialized Epic, and Cannondale Scalpel are all 120mm rear travel. WBD/UCI apparently don't even know what people are currently riding in the disciplines they're trying to standardize.
Racing Talk 🙏🏽
Tech rumors left the chat
Me too. So bummed and I really hope Rob and Mike will find a way to get the product to market. "Fortunately" I have already "forgotten" about the money I paid for the System 2...
If you used a credit card, and it's within the last 6 months, go hit the "dispute" button with your bank.
Going by the email it won't be Rob and Mike getting hit with the reversed charges, it'll be the company that took over MI and fired them which gets to involuntarily refund you.
And at least a handful of fox sponsored riders are opting for a step cast 34 over the 32
Nothing super revolutionary, but looks like Sean Fincham raced the upcoming Rocky Mountain Element at Chequamegon.
Hard to tell what other changes there might be, but looks like they’ve gone with flex stays.
Appears to work with a 100mm stepcast fork without a spacer.
They are some thin chainstays. The transition between them and the chainstay yolk will be interesting.
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