Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
It's based off the dw6 link that the Athertons use that is a proper 6 bar (axle mounted to the seatstay link with a pivot on the chainstay). In this case the missing pivot is handled by the rear triangle flexing, so it really depends on how the axle/brake section of the triangle moves relative to the two ends of the triangle.
This is true for flex stay single pivots too, you can't characterise them as single pivots as it really depends on where the flexing occurs. If it's only in the seatstay, it's effectively a single pivot. If it's the chainstay (Cannondale does this with the thin section) it's basically a 4 bar. The reality is somewhere in between in practice.
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally...
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally a ton of lag in those systems
Tairin hubs do that and lag is very reasonable, still faster pick up than Dt swiss
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible to prevent it from causing pedal kick. The drive mechanism, whether it be hub or BB based, can't differentiate between the chain getting pulled on due to you pedaling and the chain getting pulled on from the suspension compressing. Riding backwards is a little different in that you can use the fact that the hub is rotating backwards relative to the axle to disengage the hub.
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible...
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible to prevent it from causing pedal kick. The drive mechanism, whether it be hub or BB based, can't differentiate between the chain getting pulled on due to you pedaling and the chain getting pulled on from the suspension compressing. Riding backwards is a little different in that you can use the fact that the hub is rotating backwards relative to the axle to disengage the hub.
What if you make hub engagement so slow that your suspension can fully compress without the hub catching?
I have a theory that e-bikes continue running on when you stop pedaling and therefore always experience pedal kick back as all slack in the hub is always removed.
I'm still thinking that the pedal kickback perception has more to do with chain management than classic kickback caused by anti-squat. Said another way, it's the chain slap pulling the cassette forward, and then slamming into a pawls/teeth, vs chain growth, caused by anti-squat/growth. This has less (but still it's something) to do with hub engagement and more to do with various ways to control (damp) the chain oscillations and smashing forces when the chain movement comes to an abrupt halt against any of the various bike components.
I've played around a lot with making my bikes quiet, which makes the suspension feel great. This has a lot of overlap with the O-Chain and the E-Thirteen hub rumors. STFU, Hall Lock type derailleur mods (they're easy and I'm a big fan), O-Chain's elastomers, chainstay protection/wetting (VHS, etc), strong clutch... all these are likely components of the same improvement in suspension feel - they all mitigate the forces of chain flop.
In the case of the E-Thirteen hubs, or low-engagement hubs in general, I'm speculating that they reduce the harsh slamming of pawls by allowing enough play that the chain bottoms on the chainstay before hitting a hard stop via the freehub.
I'm still thinking that the pedal kickback perception has more to do with chain management than classic kickback caused by anti-squat. Said another way, it's the...
I'm still thinking that the pedal kickback perception has more to do with chain management than classic kickback caused by anti-squat. Said another way, it's the chain slap pulling the cassette forward, and then slamming into a pawls/teeth, vs chain growth, caused by anti-squat/growth. This has less (but still it's something) to do with hub engagement and more to do with various ways to control (damp) the chain oscillations and smashing forces when the chain movement comes to an abrupt halt against any of the various bike components.
I've played around a lot with making my bikes quiet, which makes the suspension feel great. This has a lot of overlap with the O-Chain and the E-Thirteen hub rumors. STFU, Hall Lock type derailleur mods (they're easy and I'm a big fan), O-Chain's elastomers, chainstay protection/wetting (VHS, etc), strong clutch... all these are likely components of the same improvement in suspension feel - they all mitigate the forces of chain flop.
In the case of the E-Thirteen hubs, or low-engagement hubs in general, I'm speculating that they reduce the harsh slamming of pawls by allowing enough play that the chain bottoms on the chainstay before hitting a hard stop via the freehub.
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've compiled. Maybe an updated Bullit to follow?
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've...
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've compiled. Maybe an updated Bullit to follow?
Has the person who told you it won't use VPP explained why? Seems unlikely...
Found some info on the EMTB forums and also on a German E forum and the info lines up with most of what I've heard. We should know more in a week and a half. Garen from SC mentioned that he was up in Bend showing off a new Ebike then heading up to visit Pinkbike on the latest Roller Door pod.
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've...
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've compiled. Maybe an updated Bullit to follow?
I read on a German forum that is going to be released in October, apparently they moved from the vpp on that one because the Bosch system wasn't compatible with the design.
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've...
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've compiled. Maybe an updated Bullit to follow?
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free...
Looks like the new E13 rear hub should be out next week. The speculation is that the paws disengage when the wheel is spinning to free up the chain tension and pedal kick.
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally...
I was wondering if we would soon see bmx freecoaster hub technology appear for this reason! Would be fairly elegant if it works, but theres normally a ton of lag in those systems
It already exists by small manufacturers in MTB, also nw bsd freecoaster eliminates lag in BMX world
longevity was never strong point of e13 hubs, starting from their dh with integrated cassette
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible...
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible to prevent it from causing pedal kick. The drive mechanism, whether it be hub or BB based, can't differentiate between the chain getting pulled on due to you pedaling and the chain getting pulled on from the suspension compressing. Riding backwards is a little different in that you can use the fact that the hub is rotating backwards relative to the axle to disengage the hub.
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible...
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible to prevent it from causing pedal kick. The drive mechanism, whether it be hub or BB based, can't differentiate between the chain getting pulled on due to you pedaling and the chain getting pulled on from the suspension compressing. Riding backwards is a little different in that you can use the fact that the hub is rotating backwards relative to the axle to disengage the hub.
-> Idylle DH fork / Idylle SC (now named Kyll) (39mm stachions anyone?) / Deville + a DJ fork (the USD Obsys should be back too -oh word I'm hoping for a SC version)
-> Void / Syors / Stoy shocks as well
-> aaaannd surprise surprise, a 2 or 4-pot braking system is in the works (using shimano pads)
Weren't they back into MTB twice already? All I rem mber is the CEO spitting his dummy out over how nobody in MTB appreciates them and that they're never coming back. And they've come back twice since.
However, those parts look straight out of 2004, absolutely no thanks. If they're not gonna make themselves a viable option by actually selling their things, then it's all a moot point anyway.
-> Idylle DH fork / Idylle SC (now named Kyll) (39mm stachions anyone?) / Deville + a DJ fork (the USD Obsys should be back too -oh word I'm hoping for a SC version)
-> Void / Syors / Stoy shocks as well
-> aaaannd surprise surprise, a 2 or 4-pot braking system is in the works (using shimano pads)
I don't think they actually left, idylle SC and DC were introduced relatively recently just after RS and fox came out with 38mm range, stoy3 is also one of the newer shocks on the market. Anyways, like to see them still going, my stoy rare is damn good shock and as reliable as they come.
true but now its a feature, not a bug!
The master cylinder in some pics still looked milled…
How does the Pivot kinematic work ?
The wheel trajectory is defined by the 2 short links, and the seatstays+yoke are there to activate the shock and define the amount of travel ?
It's based off the dw6 link that the Athertons use that is a proper 6 bar (axle mounted to the seatstay link with a pivot on the chainstay). In this case the missing pivot is handled by the rear triangle flexing, so it really depends on how the axle/brake section of the triangle moves relative to the two ends of the triangle.
This is true for flex stay single pivots too, you can't characterise them as single pivots as it really depends on where the flexing occurs. If it's only in the seatstay, it's effectively a single pivot. If it's the chainstay (Cannondale does this with the thin section) it's basically a 4 bar. The reality is somewhere in between in practice.
What new Shimano drivetrain in the spring?
Weren’t they supposed to release only the next Saint soon, and some version of the XTR?
Saint has been due for about 5 years and we are waiting on Shimano Di2 electronic (with new brakes)
Tairin hubs do that and lag is very reasonable, still faster pick up than Dt swiss
On the note of disengaging hubs and pedal kick, so long as whatever drive mechanism you have can automatically engage when you pedal forwards, it's impossible to prevent it from causing pedal kick. The drive mechanism, whether it be hub or BB based, can't differentiate between the chain getting pulled on due to you pedaling and the chain getting pulled on from the suspension compressing. Riding backwards is a little different in that you can use the fact that the hub is rotating backwards relative to the axle to disengage the hub.
What if you make hub engagement so slow that your suspension can fully compress without the hub catching?
A hub with 1 point of engagement and one pawl?
On average you'd have less kick, however there's always the chance your hub is up against its point of engagement and you'd get that kick right away.
I have a theory that e-bikes continue running on when you stop pedaling and therefore always experience pedal kick back as all slack in the hub is always removed.
I'm still thinking that the pedal kickback perception has more to do with chain management than classic kickback caused by anti-squat. Said another way, it's the chain slap pulling the cassette forward, and then slamming into a pawls/teeth, vs chain growth, caused by anti-squat/growth. This has less (but still it's something) to do with hub engagement and more to do with various ways to control (damp) the chain oscillations and smashing forces when the chain movement comes to an abrupt halt against any of the various bike components.
I've played around a lot with making my bikes quiet, which makes the suspension feel great. This has a lot of overlap with the O-Chain and the E-Thirteen hub rumors. STFU, Hall Lock type derailleur mods (they're easy and I'm a big fan), O-Chain's elastomers, chainstay protection/wetting (VHS, etc), strong clutch... all these are likely components of the same improvement in suspension feel - they all mitigate the forces of chain flop.
In the case of the E-Thirteen hubs, or low-engagement hubs in general, I'm speculating that they reduce the harsh slamming of pawls by allowing enough play that the chain bottoms on the chainstay before hitting a hard stop via the freehub.
That's my theory.
Vorsprung had a video on exactly this.
can we get kicked back to tech rumours please?
What are you all hearing about the new SC e bike(s?). Named Vala, 160/150,Bosch system 5, non VPP, 600wh with an extender are the rumors I've compiled. Maybe an updated Bullit to follow?
Has the person who told you it won't use VPP explained why? Seems unlikely...
Edit: oh of course, packaging
Found some info on the EMTB forums and also on a German E forum and the info lines up with most of what I've heard. We should know more in a week and a half. Garen from SC mentioned that he was up in Bend showing off a new Ebike then heading up to visit Pinkbike on the latest Roller Door pod.
I read on a German forum that is going to be released in October, apparently they moved from the vpp on that one because the Bosch system wasn't compatible with the design.
For the why, packaging?
Edit: I should really read things through before commenting...
I know this site is more big bike centered but Corey Wallace (Kona endurance racer...) spotted on a proto g3 Hei-Hei. Proof that Kona is still alive!
I would definitely be stoked to see a new hei hei come out.
Over forkage on an S170
It already exists by small manufacturers in MTB, also nw bsd freecoaster eliminates lag in BMX world
longevity was never strong point of e13 hubs, starting from their dh with integrated cassette
It is called oem formula hubs
Lowkey loved mine
Looks like BOS Suspension is back on track with its MTB range:
https://www.vojomag.com/news/bos-suspension-revient-avec-une-nouvelle-gamme-vtt/
-> Idylle DH fork / Idylle SC (now named Kyll) (39mm stachions anyone?) / Deville + a DJ fork (the USD Obsys should be back too -oh word I'm hoping for a SC version)
-> Void / Syors / Stoy shocks as well
-> aaaannd surprise surprise, a 2 or 4-pot braking system is in the works (using shimano pads)
Weren't they back into MTB twice already? All I rem mber is the CEO spitting his dummy out over how nobody in MTB appreciates them and that they're never coming back. And they've come back twice since.
However, those parts look straight out of 2004, absolutely no thanks. If they're not gonna make themselves a viable option by actually selling their things, then it's all a moot point anyway.
I don't think they actually left, idylle SC and DC were introduced relatively recently just after RS and fox came out with 38mm range, stoy3 is also one of the newer shocks on the market. Anyways, like to see them still going, my stoy rare is damn good shock and as reliable as they come.
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation