how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
The fact they spec their most aggressive model with the Ohlins coil and 38 tells you it will ride just fine with a properly tuned shock with enough damping.
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this psa thing in the genie. X2 will be crammed full of tokens which will negate the volume but yeah you’ll have a better damper (might as well be a float x.) But to allow for high volume (no tokens) with less bottom out you’ll have to crank up the damping. Now you’ve got a harsher overall ride than the genie as the damper is working a lot more.
this is just theory and I am still working on my comprehension of stroke length, amount of travel, and the resulting damping needed. I just think this design lessens the reliance on damping to control stroke, which normally would result in blowing through travel and bottoming out constantly (as they found early in testing) but with the PSA they don’t have to worry about blowing through travel as the bottom 30% of travel gets super progressive and not harsh…
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this...
Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this psa thing in the genie. X2 will be crammed full of tokens which will negate the volume but yeah you’ll have a better damper (might as well be a float x.) But to allow for high volume (no tokens) with less bottom out you’ll have to crank up the damping. Now you’ve got a harsher overall ride than the genie as the damper is working a lot more.
this is just theory and I am still working on my comprehension of stroke length, amount of travel, and the resulting damping needed. I just think this design lessens the reliance on damping to control stroke, which normally would result in blowing through travel and bottoming out constantly (as they found early in testing) but with the PSA they don’t have to worry about blowing through travel as the bottom 30% of travel gets super progressive and not harsh…
ALSO: I feel like speci might have been trying to achieve in the shock what the cascade link was able to achieve with higher leverage and more progression. Also if I were speci I would account for cascade coming through with a link that will satisfy the riders that want more progression. I can focus on the majority who will drop major coin on a bike that rides sick for the majority, and let cottage industry develop solutions for the edge case riders.
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
Because they’re relatively expensive and people want to point out everything negative about it even if it’s only based on personal preference. You are correct, the bike is looking to be a killer all rounder with a few interesting designs features but at the end of the day, they’re going to sell heaps of them because they appeal to the majority of the market. That’s the point and why Specialized is successful.
My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of...
My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of folks either a) don’t mind the feeling of bottoming out constantly or b) don’t mind riding a harsh over-sprung shock.
I’ll tell you that the people involved in making this bike are looking to make bikes that feel good to ride and perform well. The problem with solving the problem on the damper end is that different rider spring rates require different tunes, and that just doesn’t work for the majority of riders. Sure you could look at HBO but there is no way that feels as smooth as a pneumatic solution, and that requires another circuit I assume? Adjusting the psa is just volume reducer. Also, I’m assuming that if you ride heavy on the PSA it’s probably not as detrimental as riding heavy on an HBO where cycling that fluid creates heat and other byproducts, but I’m getting over my skis here now.
im defending the concept here because looking out into the future I am very excited by the possibilities of psa tech in shocks and forks. It’s so much more intuitive and simple compared to other multi-stage air springs. I also like radical thinking and elegant solutions, and compared to a lot of Suspension Contraptions I have seen, this feels most like where I personally would want the technology on my bike to go.
I agree. You get the benefits of lower progression which will work well in less demanding scenarios and a relatively simple but likely very effective ramp-up...
I agree. You get the benefits of lower progression which will work well in less demanding scenarios and a relatively simple but likely very effective ramp-up in spring rate that spreads the bottom-out progression over a wider and more controlled region of travel vs simply reducing volume vs tokens. This shock could work very well for a lot of riders, and if not it's a std size so you can use any shock you like, and if you want more progression it's pretty likely Cascade will make a Link for it like they did the Evo.
Yeah idk.
I'll ride one when it's not snowing outside, but I think you've all drunk the cool-aid.
Spring curves really aren't that important in bikes...
Yeah idk.
I'll ride one when it's not snowing outside, but I think you've all drunk the cool-aid.
Spring curves really aren't that important in bikes (assuming they're not something insane) and the curve shown from Specialized' marketing material is very very similar to the curves you get on bike with a progressive ramp towards the end.
The most important thing in suspension is damping. An inline 55mm stroke shock on 145mm is just not adequate to produce enough damping force, it doesn't matter how fancy your airspring is.
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem.
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes.
I mean sharpies still seem to be an accepted way for Marketing folks to accept the failures on the tyres part, so why not apply that technique to a shock?
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
It's probably mostly because the bike is quite expensive, so people just want to say something negative instead of actually read through the details. And judging by Specialized's recent track record, the bike is most likely excellent.
Regarding prices: Just give it some time, the current market situation clearly doesn't support pricing like that. So prices will come down naturally. We will surely see some big discounts by the end of the year. It's the same as with Santa Cruz: No one ever buys any of their bikes at full retail price.
Regarding incompatibility with cable-actuated derailleurs: Meh, I'm not overly disappointed. It was going to happen anyways, sooner or later. So we might as well just get used to it. There's going to be a lot more bikes with wireless-only in the near future. Rumors are that Shimano's line of next-gen MTB drivetrains will also be wireless.
Edit: The only thing that really annoys me is the gigantic price difference between Europe and North America.
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.
I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a...
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem.
Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought it was smaller. Its pretty much the same as a 170/65 (2.62) which is normal.
You are right, but the standard tunes companies (other than Ohlins) spec are pretty spring heavy damping light. I don't know of any brands that sell an inline shock with with large amounts of damping when closed. In quite a few sell tunes on their models that are the exact opposite (Ibis in particular)
Also to @Onawalk the shock is 100% proprietary, Specialized have the sole patent for it. It's just that they partnered with Fox to make it.
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping...
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may...
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.
I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."
to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Im disappointed in all of us here
"I'm disappointed in all of us here"
Have a listen to yourself. People are entitled to opinions that differ from yours.
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a...
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem.
Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought...
Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought it was smaller. Its pretty much the same as a 170/65 (2.62) which is normal.
You are right, but the standard tunes companies (other than Ohlins) spec are pretty spring heavy damping light. I don't know of any brands that sell an inline shock with with large amounts of damping when closed. In quite a few sell tunes on their models that are the exact opposite (Ibis in particular)
Also to @Onawalk the shock is 100% proprietary, Specialized have the sole patent for it. It's just that they partnered with Fox to make it.
Ill bet you 6 doughnuts right now, we see it somewhere else.
And you can run other shocks, its not like we are talking about a "brain" equipped Spesh, or Treks Supercal (that could be reason to whinge)
You can clearly run an Ohlins shock, and re-tune nearly anything to work!
les gets DH pit bits video with some interesting stuff. less electronics, more grinding out metal in 2025!
Video Contents
0:00 - RockShox Fork Rebuilds...
les gets DH pit bits video with some interesting stuff. less electronics, more grinding out metal in 2025!
Video Contents
0:00 - RockShox Fork Rebuilds
1:04 - e13 Sidekick Clutch Hub
2:18 - Removing Frame Material for Flex on Danny Hart's GT
3:39 - Epic Tools - Giant Factory Off-Road
5:50 - Pivot Factory Racing Pits
6:21 - Norco Factory Racing
7:25 - FOX Fork Rebuilds
9:08 - Belt-drive Gearbox Gamux DH Prototype Bike
10:59 - Finn Iles Wants the Win
The Danny Hart frame mods are so sick. More flex in the rear triangle, but less at the brake mount. Smart man. Also, cool to see...
The Danny Hart frame mods are so sick. More flex in the rear triangle, but less at the brake mount. Smart man. Also, cool to see the data-intensive approach from the MS team regarding the new E.Thirteen hub. Have really been impressed by O.Chain and super curious to hear/see more about the Sidekick hub. It's a good time to be a tech nerd.
I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D
I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions :D
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a...
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Im disappointed in all of us here
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.
Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it.
I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options.
Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may...
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.
I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed...
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."
to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?
Wait, you're supposed to read the review before complaining in the forum?
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from wood thank you very much.
New Maven’s felt magical!! Going to have to bug SRAM buddies for a pair! Do want! Only a parking lot cruise but everything else felt pretty damn good. Intriguing for sure!!
Read the white paper. There is less time bottoming out and less major bottom out events claimed. What’s revolutionary about the shock isn’t how it’s feels...
Read the white paper. There is less time bottoming out and less major bottom out events claimed. What’s revolutionary about the shock isn’t how it’s feels for the 70%, like an Enduro, it’s how for that last 30% it doesn’t feel like a 145mm bike slamming into or riding at bottom out.
I think this is one of those developments that we are going to have to ride to understand.
Playing devils advocate here but isnt this problem solved with 1. progressive leverage curves 2. Shock ramp-up via volume spacers 3. HBO damping circuits 4. The...
Playing devils advocate here but isnt this problem solved with 1. progressive leverage curves 2. Shock ramp-up via volume spacers 3. HBO damping circuits 4. The severity of a harsh bottom out is way to exaggerated
I'm not saying the stumpy is a bad bike, but "solving" bottom outs really isn't that important IMO.
My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of...
My buddy runs his shock at like 35% sag. He HAS to be bottoming out that thing so hard, so often. I think a lot of folks either a) don’t mind the feeling of bottoming out constantly or b) don’t mind riding a harsh over-sprung shock.
I’ll tell you that the people involved in making this bike are looking to make bikes that feel good to ride and perform well. The problem with solving the problem on the damper end is that different rider spring rates require different tunes, and that just doesn’t work for the majority of riders. Sure you could look at HBO but there is no way that feels as smooth as a pneumatic solution, and that requires another circuit I assume? Adjusting the psa is just volume reducer. Also, I’m assuming that if you ride heavy on the PSA it’s probably not as detrimental as riding heavy on an HBO where cycling that fluid creates heat and other byproducts, but I’m getting over my skis here now.
im defending the concept here because looking out into the future I am very excited by the possibilities of psa tech in shocks and forks. It’s so much more intuitive and simple compared to other multi-stage air springs. I also like radical thinking and elegant solutions, and compared to a lot of Suspension Contraptions I have seen, this feels most like where I personally would want the technology on my bike to go.
Side note - Canecreek made a coil with a pneumatic ramp up earlier this year - the Tioga, debatably that could be the perfect shock for this bike
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed...
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."
to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?
Bravo to Jason for that review.
I like Dario at the other place.......I don't know how much editorial oversight gets passed down from Outside or whether he's just not that great at writing.
I'm almost certain Rumors just ctrlC/ctrlV the press release into Chat gpt and press publish.
I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D
I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions...
I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D
I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions :D
Wait… REAR Torque Caps?!?
EDIT: Just watched the video. I thought you were referencing the Rockshox standard specifically. This is quite a bit different and doesn’t require frame makers to have the exact interface like a fork.
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told...
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is...
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.
Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it.
I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options.
Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.
$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing.
Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for $1300. Had 20 responses the first afternoon, could have sold it 20 times over for that price) buy GX for $650, and youve made a decent chunk of change back.
Hell for the extra money, you could get molded carbon holes done by Robertsons carbon, and have a super slick internal cables if you wanted.
its not that hard.
Plus, you know very well, that there are alu ones coming with cable drivetrains, and I'll bet you 6 doughnuts that there will be carbon ones coming as well.....
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume...
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is...
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.
Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it.
I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options.
Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.
$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing.
Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for...
$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing.
Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for $1300. Had 20 responses the first afternoon, could have sold it 20 times over for that price) buy GX for $650, and youve made a decent chunk of change back.
Hell for the extra money, you could get molded carbon holes done by Robertsons carbon, and have a super slick internal cables if you wanted.
its not that hard.
Plus, you know very well, that there are alu ones coming with cable drivetrains, and I'll bet you 6 doughnuts that there will be carbon ones coming as well.....
For the sake of not derailling the thread any more I am not gonna continue to argue about this. It's a good bike with oddball design choices on release. Let's leave it at that.
Serious question: has anyone here actually had good luck running stick-on cable guides on a frame? Seems like they'd be good for half a run at a bike park if you're lucky. Haven't used them myself, but I know I can't get helicopter tape to stay stuck to my frame in my efforts to prevent foot rub on the paint, so I'm having a hard time believing that a tiny stick-on cable guide is going the distance while it's getting torqued and pulled in every direction by wayward cable housings.
Serious question: has anyone here actually had good luck running stick-on cable guides on a frame? Seems like they'd be good for half a run at...
Serious question: has anyone here actually had good luck running stick-on cable guides on a frame? Seems like they'd be good for half a run at a bike park if you're lucky. Haven't used them myself, but I know I can't get helicopter tape to stay stuck to my frame in my efforts to prevent foot rub on the paint, so I'm having a hard time believing that a tiny stick-on cable guide is going the distance while it's getting torqued and pulled in every direction by wayward cable housings.
More suspension sensors than cable guides, but it can be done for sure. Depends on how permanent you want the guides to be but if the shape of the guide is a tight fit to the frame (ie not a flat mount on a curved tube), the surfaces a very thoroughly prepped and cleaned and you use an appropriate adhesive or tape like 3M VHB (used on gopros) then its doable. You can epoxy the guides too which would be fairly permanent and vary depending on material
how do you guys think the new stumpy 15 would preform with something like a float x2 or any shock with a better more robust damping circuit? I'm having local shops tell me that would be a downgrade but I cant see why for 2 reasons -
The float x2 will have more consistent damping across the board vs the genie it comes with (which is an inline shock and tend to fail faster and lose consistency after getting hot.)
I cant imagine the spring characteristics be any large difference than a float x2 with a slightly softer spring weight just crammed with volume reducers.
granted the adjustability to different parts of the travel are neat, (For the genie) I just see them as well neat. I think any shock with a superior damper - float x2, vivid, ohlins ttx air. if set up properly would be superior. That's unless this marketing hype for the genie is not just hype which would be pretty lame at that point.
Tairin has had this available for almost a year now
https://www.tairinwheels.ca/product-page/tairin-s1-rear-boost-hub
The fact they spec their most aggressive model with the Ohlins coil and 38 tells you it will ride just fine with a properly tuned shock with enough damping.
Argument boils down to managing travel through spring rate or damping. Speci is saying that you can go light spring and light damping because of this psa thing in the genie. X2 will be crammed full of tokens which will negate the volume but yeah you’ll have a better damper (might as well be a float x.) But to allow for high volume (no tokens) with less bottom out you’ll have to crank up the damping. Now you’ve got a harsher overall ride than the genie as the damper is working a lot more.
this is just theory and I am still working on my comprehension of stroke length, amount of travel, and the resulting damping needed. I just think this design lessens the reliance on damping to control stroke, which normally would result in blowing through travel and bottoming out constantly (as they found early in testing) but with the PSA they don’t have to worry about blowing through travel as the bottom 30% of travel gets super progressive and not harsh…
ALSO: I feel like speci might have been trying to achieve in the shock what the cascade link was able to achieve with higher leverage and more progression. Also if I were speci I would account for cascade coming through with a link that will satisfy the riders that want more progression. I can focus on the majority who will drop major coin on a bike that rides sick for the majority, and let cottage industry develop solutions for the edge case riders.
Im so utterly baffled by the comments on the Stumpy
Its not a proprietary shock, its simply only currently available on the Stumpy, give it a hot minute, and I bet you'll see it available....
Its not exclusively running Fox suspension, as there is an Ohlins model available....Which should mean that both coil is acceptable, and pretty much any other shock will work (might require an appropriate tune)
Mullet is an option on S3 and up sizing....
simply buy some stick on cable guides and run whatever you want on it. All of you "cry out" for external routing anyway
Theres clearly going to be an alu/cable version available down the road (this is simply an early adopter model, and I'm sure T-Type is a selling feature to that "type" of person)
None of us have ridden, much less seen one in person
The bike looks great, and at 150-145 is likely very friggin capable, with available adjust-ability.
How is there so much confusion, frustration, and non-sense around this bike?
https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/stumpjumper-15-hlins-coil/p/4221405?c…
Because they’re relatively expensive and people want to point out everything negative about it even if it’s only based on personal preference. You are correct, the bike is looking to be a killer all rounder with a few interesting designs features but at the end of the day, they’re going to sell heaps of them because they appeal to the majority of the market. That’s the point and why Specialized is successful.
145/55 = 2.63. Not unusual whatsoever. Damping forces can be tuned too, there's no set amount of damping depending on leverage ratio. You could make a shock for a 4:1 leverage ratio frame no problem.
I mean sharpies still seem to be an accepted way for Marketing folks to accept the failures on the tyres part, so why not apply that technique to a shock?
Folks don't like being pigeonholed, even if they end up buying a bike with T-type and never consider anything else, they still don't like being told "this is your only option".
The bike seems like the Stumpy always has been; capable, basic, and agreeable.
Sure, it'll take time for the features most of us want to see in it to come out, but it does strike a chord for most folks, as you can see (in plain video) that they're seeing what people here have to say, and ignoring it, even if it's temporary it's still a sour taste.
I agree.
It's probably mostly because the bike is quite expensive, so people just want to say something negative instead of actually read through the details. And judging by Specialized's recent track record, the bike is most likely excellent.
Regarding prices: Just give it some time, the current market situation clearly doesn't support pricing like that. So prices will come down naturally. We will surely see some big discounts by the end of the year. It's the same as with Santa Cruz: No one ever buys any of their bikes at full retail price.
Regarding incompatibility with cable-actuated derailleurs: Meh, I'm not overly disappointed. It was going to happen anyways, sooner or later. So we might as well just get used to it. There's going to be a lot more bikes with wireless-only in the near future. Rumors are that Shimano's line of next-gen MTB drivetrains will also be wireless.
Edit: The only thing that really annoys me is the gigantic price difference between Europe and North America.
Differential F/R wheel speed as it's shown in the recent stumpjumper review is a bogus way to measure traction in a mountain bike. Many here may not have read the whitepaper (ha!) for the newest Diverge frame, but it is chock full of pseudoscience b.s. that would be a judgement call between incompetence and academic fraud if the two researchers that are supposed to have collaborated on it published anything like the summary being used by the marketing team.
I think Vital and other mtb media shouldn't be copy-pasting this kind of stuff without a level of critical distance from the bike company and their word. Reviews would be just as useful, get just as much attention, simply leaving out the parts that lay outside the reviewer's scope to look at independently. No need to be negative or even skeptical; just leave it out. Upsides include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may. Reviews are fundamentally retrospective -- the bike was already ridden. How did it go? I would prefer to save the future tense next weekend there's gonna be sand, fun and people in their swimsuits kind of story for the people who write bud light ads.
Yeah your totally right actually, my math was wrong and I initially saw 52.5 (which is only the size for S1 and S2) and hence thought it was smaller. Its pretty much the same as a 170/65 (2.62) which is normal.
You are right, but the standard tunes companies (other than Ohlins) spec are pretty spring heavy damping light. I don't know of any brands that sell an inline shock with with large amounts of damping when closed. In quite a few sell tunes on their models that are the exact opposite (Ibis in particular)
Also to @Onawalk the shock is 100% proprietary, Specialized have the sole patent for it. It's just that they partnered with Fox to make it.
Youre not pigeonholed on anything!
nothing, nada,
people glomming onto misinformation, Super negative about a rear shock that can automatically change the size of the volume by its position in the stroke....That seems brilliant!
A bike that appears to tick all the possible boxes that one could want from an "do everything" trail bike?
Im disappointed in all of us here
from jason's vital review which has exactly what you're asking....."include tighter writing, more of the reviewer's personal voice, way less mealy language of it's claimed it might it may."
to not include the marketing claims from a brand in a review seems the wrong way to go. putting down a brand's claim with a reviewer's experience could justify or negate the marketing hype. isn't that the whole point of the review? to see if the brand/bike is full of shit or not?
"I'm disappointed in all of us here"
Have a listen to yourself. People are entitled to opinions that differ from yours.
Ill bet you 6 doughnuts right now, we see it somewhere else.
And you can run other shocks, its not like we are talking about a "brain" equipped Spesh, or Treks Supercal (that could be reason to whinge)
You can clearly run an Ohlins shock, and re-tune nearly anything to work!
I'm surprised nobody is crying about rear torque caps yet :D
I drank the kool aid, I have them on all 3 of my full suspensions :D
Yes, thereis. Trying to say you're not being forced to run transmission on a bike that forces you to run transmission ONLY at the moment is a pretty high amount of noggin joggin.
Otherwise the bike really does look great. Once theres a version available with mechanical routing I'm all for it.
I was more commenting the on the drivetrain, not the rear shock. I like the idea of it, and I like that it's a proprietary design with a standard sizing for other shock options.
Funny how the design team built so many options on it, and yet took some options away.
Wait, you're supposed to read the review before complaining in the forum?
Screw cables. I want my next bike's gears to shift with rods and pistons powered by coal fired steam. And I want my wheels made from wood thank you very much.
New Maven’s felt magical!! Going to have to bug SRAM buddies for a pair! Do want! Only a parking lot cruise but everything else felt pretty damn good. Intriguing for sure!!
Side note - Canecreek made a coil with a pneumatic ramp up earlier this year - the Tioga, debatably that could be the perfect shock for this bike
Bravo to Jason for that review.
I like Dario at the other place.......I don't know how much editorial oversight gets passed down from Outside or whether he's just not that great at writing.
I'm almost certain Rumors just ctrlC/ctrlV the press release into Chat gpt and press publish.
Wait… REAR Torque Caps?!?
EDIT: Just watched the video. I thought you were referencing the Rockshox standard specifically. This is quite a bit different and doesn’t require frame makers to have the exact interface like a fork.
"Lets stop talking about ebikes, this isn't the place. Now, I was saying about electronic drive trains...."
$5 worth of cable guides and youve got external cable routing.
Hell, sell the T-type for a huge (I had GX T-type on PB buy/sell for $1300. Had 20 responses the first afternoon, could have sold it 20 times over for that price) buy GX for $650, and youve made a decent chunk of change back.
Hell for the extra money, you could get molded carbon holes done by Robertsons carbon, and have a super slick internal cables if you wanted.
its not that hard.
Plus, you know very well, that there are alu ones coming with cable drivetrains, and I'll bet you 6 doughnuts that there will be carbon ones coming as well.....
For the sake of not derailling the thread any more I am not gonna continue to argue about this. It's a good bike with oddball design choices on release. Let's leave it at that.
Serious question: has anyone here actually had good luck running stick-on cable guides on a frame? Seems like they'd be good for half a run at a bike park if you're lucky. Haven't used them myself, but I know I can't get helicopter tape to stay stuck to my frame in my efforts to prevent foot rub on the paint, so I'm having a hard time believing that a tiny stick-on cable guide is going the distance while it's getting torqued and pulled in every direction by wayward cable housings.
More suspension sensors than cable guides, but it can be done for sure. Depends on how permanent you want the guides to be but if the shape of the guide is a tight fit to the frame (ie not a flat mount on a curved tube), the surfaces a very thoroughly prepped and cleaned and you use an appropriate adhesive or tape like 3M VHB (used on gopros) then its doable. You can epoxy the guides too which would be fairly permanent and vary depending on material
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