MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Kusa
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7/2/2024 5:19pm
austin-NC wrote:
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock...

Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram. 

If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit. 

Correct, the GENIE shock can be swapped with any 210x55 shock. The patent-pending proprietary part is the two-chamber design. 

Lets make a frame characteristics around a shock people actually don’t need to use… that just doesn’t make sense.

That would mean Genie is more of a marketing rather adding anything OR while you can swap for any shock (lets not let people freak out) the ride will be crap.

Well it could be worst… im looking at you Scott.

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Uncle Cliffy
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7/2/2024 5:21pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2024 5:26pm

Or, on the flip side, what about Specialized riders who aren't sponsored by SRAM for drivetrains?

Pay retail and bust out the Sharpie.

Edit: or run full housing, and lots of zip ties.

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TEAMROBOT
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7/2/2024 5:38pm Edited Date/Time 7/2/2024 5:41pm
dknapton wrote:
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...

I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes. 

I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can on a Super Deluxe with HBO would be comparable in function. A coil with HBO would be even better as long as the coil is approved for the Stumpy's clevis shock mount. Maybe tune your compression shims for a lower leverage rate and rebound shims for lower spring rates.

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slimshady
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7/2/2024 5:53pm
chriskief wrote:
Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.    

Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.

 

 

dknapton wrote:
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...

I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes. 

Or, on the flip side, what about Specialized riders who aren't sponsored by SRAM for drivetrains?

Shimano will bring wireless shifting to MTB in 2025. XTR, XT and Deore groupsets will be wireless 1x13.

6
matmattmatthew
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7/2/2024 6:04pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can...

I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can on a Super Deluxe with HBO would be comparable in function. A coil with HBO would be even better as long as the coil is approved for the Stumpy's clevis shock mount. Maybe tune your compression shims for a lower leverage rate and rebound shims for lower spring rates.

I agree, the bike doesn’t need the genie shock, it’s just a selling point for bikes shops seeing as 95% of people that buy the new Stumpy will never run a different shock.  For Non-Fox riders and people that like to tinker, they will find other shocks/setups that ride just as good/better than the OEM shock.  
 

I hate to make another car analogy, but, it’s the same reason people buy TRD Pro versions of Toyota vehicles.  They would never go through the trouble of swapping out their OEM suspension but if it comes from the factory with “better” suspension, they’ll gladly hand over an extra 10k. 

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7/2/2024 6:14pm
dknapton wrote:
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...

I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can...

I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can on a Super Deluxe with HBO would be comparable in function. A coil with HBO would be even better as long as the coil is approved for the Stumpy's clevis shock mount. Maybe tune your compression shims for a lower leverage rate and rebound shims for lower spring rates.

Yeah pretty much - Genie doesn't seem to do much more than a simple bump stop (I joked about that but its a good way to do it)

 

A lot of stock damper tunes are quite "conservative" and while they suit the bike can usually be improved on a lot. I'm sure back to back tests of the OE choices will feel like the genie shock works better but you could easily step it up again with careful selection of already existing tunes in something like a Float X or Super Deluxe

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earleb
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7/2/2024 6:25pm
 

Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 

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bulletbass man
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7/2/2024 6:37pm
earleb wrote:
  Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 
 

Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 

Hopefully it’s very expensive cause I told myself I’m not buying another bike for a while….  😂 

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metadave
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7/2/2024 7:07pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can...

I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can on a Super Deluxe with HBO would be comparable in function. A coil with HBO would be even better as long as the coil is approved for the Stumpy's clevis shock mount. Maybe tune your compression shims for a lower leverage rate and rebound shims for lower spring rates.

I agree, the bike doesn’t need the genie shock, it’s just a selling point for bikes shops seeing as 95% of people that buy the new...

I agree, the bike doesn’t need the genie shock, it’s just a selling point for bikes shops seeing as 95% of people that buy the new Stumpy will never run a different shock.  For Non-Fox riders and people that like to tinker, they will find other shocks/setups that ride just as good/better than the OEM shock.  
 

I hate to make another car analogy, but, it’s the same reason people buy TRD Pro versions of Toyota vehicles.  They would never go through the trouble of swapping out their OEM suspension but if it comes from the factory with “better” suspension, they’ll gladly hand over an extra 10k. 

No one in my riding area that knows what their buying will buy an inline shock on a 140+mm bike. It limits to an extreme who will buy the bike. Out local spot its basically pavement like base with techy chunder for a max of 500m/1640ft vertical laps that you usually climb as well at least a couple before hitting the shuttles. So an inline is usually a huge turn off because they fail faster. Also that's a lot of air to insulate a damper that has less chance of bleeding off heat because of it. Damping is going to suffer at the end of the run even if the air spring is more progressive so does it actually end up doing anything in the end?

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NicoZesty96
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7/2/2024 7:24pm
metadave wrote:
No one in my riding area that knows what their buying will buy an inline shock on a 140+mm bike. It limits to an extreme who...

No one in my riding area that knows what their buying will buy an inline shock on a 140+mm bike. It limits to an extreme who will buy the bike. Out local spot its basically pavement like base with techy chunder for a max of 500m/1640ft vertical laps that you usually climb as well at least a couple before hitting the shuttles. So an inline is usually a huge turn off because they fail faster. Also that's a lot of air to insulate a damper that has less chance of bleeding off heat because of it. Damping is going to suffer at the end of the run even if the air spring is more progressive so does it actually end up doing anything in the end?

i believe the same people that know what they're buying wont buy a Stumpy either

10
6
7/2/2024 7:53pm
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy...

I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains).  Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.”  People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless.  While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.  
 

I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released.  It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.  

You may be right, but it still feels jarring considering the amount of companies locking in-frame storage behind the carbon “premium” model, yet Spesh didn’t do that with the SJ Evo alloy and sold it’s frame for $200 less than every other shop brand. I went to the dark side of The Big S, and begrudgingly defended them to SC and Transition riders because it looked like they were going to make affordable, high performing bikes with common sense features (headset cups, in frame storage) not re-create the trim levels of the auto world in bikes.

JVP
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7/2/2024 7:55pm
earleb wrote:
  Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 
 

Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 

Neko is the hero we need today.

17
Glory831Guy
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7/2/2024 9:17pm
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy...

I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains).  Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.”  People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless.  While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.  
 

I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released.  It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.  

It's not that simple though either. Just because someone has money, that doesn't mean that they automatically consider the newest product the "latest and greatest." They could just as easily consider high end cable drive trains to be superior because they save weight. I'm sure there's plenty of wealthy riders that will only run XX1, or XTR on their bikes for saving weight, or long adventure rides.

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seanfisseli
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7/2/2024 10:49pm
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy...

I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you.  I actually think the wireless only is a smart move.  (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains).  Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.”  People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless.  While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.  
 

I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released.  It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.  

You may be right, but it still feels jarring considering the amount of companies locking in-frame storage behind the carbon “premium” model, yet Spesh didn’t do...

You may be right, but it still feels jarring considering the amount of companies locking in-frame storage behind the carbon “premium” model, yet Spesh didn’t do that with the SJ Evo alloy and sold it’s frame for $200 less than every other shop brand. I went to the dark side of The Big S, and begrudgingly defended them to SC and Transition riders because it looked like they were going to make affordable, high performing bikes with common sense features (headset cups, in frame storage) not re-create the trim levels of the auto world in bikes.

They’re making an alloy bike that will tick all your boxes. They can make balleur bougie bikes AND sick AF alloy rigs. Look at the chisel and the crux. 

5
az2au
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7/2/2024 11:25pm
earleb wrote:
  Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 
 

Neko goes over Gen 2 of the enduro bike. Orders opening later in the summer. 

Hopefully it’s very expensive cause I told myself I’m not buying another bike for a while….  😂 

I have the Frameworks DH bike and that's enough for me to know that there's a 100% chance of me buying this one.  With the DH bike, my main problem is that I don't have enough talent to ride tin the way it is meant to be ridden but when I really nail a move... yeah, all I can do is smile ear to ear and wish I was better at riding it than I am. I sent a note to Neko and Logan telling them it was almost too good because it just wants to go straight DH and ignore anything in the way.   Between that and supporting someone that I genuinely appreciate, buying one is a no-brainer even though I love my current enduro bike. 

6
1
7/3/2024 12:45am

Am I the only one who comes directly to the last page and then starts going backwards? Feels like watching Memento, but the plot line is carbon bike killed the mechanical drivetrain

22
NicoZesty96
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7/3/2024 12:50am

Meh, disappointing Trickstuff 

lots of teasing and it’s the same thing but in a different color

honestly I was hoping for a V2 of something given that the Chinese copy has more adjustments 

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TimBud
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7/3/2024 12:55am Edited Date/Time 7/3/2024 1:48am

Trickstuff are becoming the Orange of brakes.

Hard to have any respect for a company that rests on their laurels for so long (as beautiful as those laurels are).

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NicoZesty96
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7/3/2024 12:57am
TimBud wrote:
Trickstuff are becoming the Orange of brakes. Hard to have any respect for a company that rests on their laurels for so long (as beautiful as...

Trickstuff are becoming the Orange of brakes.

Hard to have any respect for a company that rests on their laurels for so long (as beautiful as those laurels are).

to their excuse the brakes seem to work really good and with tons of power and modulation, together with a premium finish quality.

but going back to the roots and offer all colors and something new wouldn't kill them

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FallenMojo
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7/3/2024 1:23am Edited Date/Time 7/3/2024 1:26am
 

105 Nm and 120 Nm with boost, 800w battery at around 20 kg bike. It's kind of insane. What were the rest doing?

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TimBud
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7/3/2024 1:39am
to their excuse the brakes seem to work really good and with tons of power and modulation, together with a premium finish quality. but going back...

to their excuse the brakes seem to work really good and with tons of power and modulation, together with a premium finish quality.

but going back to the roots and offer all colors and something new wouldn't kill them

Yeah they are.

It's just a shame that Lewis have highlighted how little they've done since they first came out.

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Marcus J
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7/3/2024 3:11am
to their excuse the brakes seem to work really good and with tons of power and modulation, together with a premium finish quality. but going back...

to their excuse the brakes seem to work really good and with tons of power and modulation, together with a premium finish quality.

but going back to the roots and offer all colors and something new wouldn't kill them

TimBud wrote:

Yeah they are.

It's just a shame that Lewis have highlighted how little they've done since they first came out.

Not to turn this into another brake discussion but I appriciate that they havent felt the need to change things every few years. I am very happy with my Maximas and even though I've had them since launch, and is the biggest nerd, I've not wanted any others. From what I've read about the Lewis is that almost everyone just leaves them with the same leverange setting as trickstuffs are any way...

5
1
7/3/2024 3:11am

To add to the rumors,

Does the new Stumpy being wireless only indicate that a shimano wireless drivetrain is near? Seems odd to restrict the SJ to one manufacturer only for drivetrain. Specialized likely knows more than we do. 

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Sir HC
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7/3/2024 3:50am
To add to the rumors, Does the new Stumpy being wireless only indicate that a shimano wireless drivetrain is near? Seems odd to restrict the SJ...

To add to the rumors,

Does the new Stumpy being wireless only indicate that a shimano wireless drivetrain is near? Seems odd to restrict the SJ to one manufacturer only for drivetrain. Specialized likely knows more than we do. 

Rumour is end of the year.

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1llumA
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7/3/2024 4:07am
To add to the rumors, Does the new Stumpy being wireless only indicate that a shimano wireless drivetrain is near? Seems odd to restrict the SJ...

To add to the rumors,

Does the new Stumpy being wireless only indicate that a shimano wireless drivetrain is near? Seems odd to restrict the SJ to one manufacturer only for drivetrain. Specialized likely knows more than we do. 

Yes it is pretty much guaranteed Shimano is coming with new wireless drive train soon not only for MTB but also because they need a 12 speed Di2 1x derailleur for the gravel segment. Current mechanical 12speed gravel derailleur are just rebadged XT and SLX long and medium cage derailleur with a cable tension adjuster added.

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Primoz
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7/3/2024 4:40am

Based on what the offering on the road is and how soon wireless only frames started coming out there is for sure something in the works. Has to be. Specialized wouldn't leave the likes of Shimano out, especially since they are exclusively running Fox suspension.

3
7/3/2024 4:53am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can...

I don't think this frame's kinematics are as weird as the custom Genie shock would make it seem. It seems like a big volume/linear air can on a Super Deluxe with HBO would be comparable in function. A coil with HBO would be even better as long as the coil is approved for the Stumpy's clevis shock mount. Maybe tune your compression shims for a lower leverage rate and rebound shims for lower spring rates.

I agree, the bike doesn’t need the genie shock, it’s just a selling point for bikes shops seeing as 95% of people that buy the new...

I agree, the bike doesn’t need the genie shock, it’s just a selling point for bikes shops seeing as 95% of people that buy the new Stumpy will never run a different shock.  For Non-Fox riders and people that like to tinker, they will find other shocks/setups that ride just as good/better than the OEM shock.  
 

I hate to make another car analogy, but, it’s the same reason people buy TRD Pro versions of Toyota vehicles.  They would never go through the trouble of swapping out their OEM suspension but if it comes from the factory with “better” suspension, they’ll gladly hand over an extra 10k. 

It's fascinating to guess at what Spesh was thinking with the Stumpjumper.  I think the key is to remember that, at the end of the day, bike companies (especially large bike companies) exist to make money, not make bikes for the people that hang out on bike forums.

Riffing off the Toyota Tacoma/4runner analogy and making up numbers, 95% of those vehicles are pavement princesses.  People buy them and use them for pavement and highway driving, but they don't actually perform very well at that.

Similarly, 95% of the people that buy a carbon Stumpjumper never ride it anywhere close to its potential.  But with this new version, Spesh has flipped the percentages compared to the Tacoma/4runner.  They've optimized the bike for the 95% rather than the 5%.  And they're not hiding it.  From their website, "It literally uses more travel for the same size bump, thanks to its flatter spring curve in the first 70% of travel."  They've made something that for more casual riders (i.e., the 95%) is going to be more comfortable for them (at the speeds and on the terrain they ride) and make it easier for them to find traction.  

Most of us will not like it, but we're not where the money is.

If you accept the design philosophy (and ignore the fact they seem to have achieved it an unnecessarily complicated way), the real question is the fork and how you get a balanced setup.  More sag, less compression damping, and lots of tokens?  Sounds lovely . . .

 

21
3
7/3/2024 6:04am
It's fascinating to guess at what Spesh was thinking with the Stumpjumper.  I think the key is to remember that, at the end of the day...

It's fascinating to guess at what Spesh was thinking with the Stumpjumper.  I think the key is to remember that, at the end of the day, bike companies (especially large bike companies) exist to make money, not make bikes for the people that hang out on bike forums.

Riffing off the Toyota Tacoma/4runner analogy and making up numbers, 95% of those vehicles are pavement princesses.  People buy them and use them for pavement and highway driving, but they don't actually perform very well at that.

Similarly, 95% of the people that buy a carbon Stumpjumper never ride it anywhere close to its potential.  But with this new version, Spesh has flipped the percentages compared to the Tacoma/4runner.  They've optimized the bike for the 95% rather than the 5%.  And they're not hiding it.  From their website, "It literally uses more travel for the same size bump, thanks to its flatter spring curve in the first 70% of travel."  They've made something that for more casual riders (i.e., the 95%) is going to be more comfortable for them (at the speeds and on the terrain they ride) and make it easier for them to find traction.  

Most of us will not like it, but we're not where the money is.

If you accept the design philosophy (and ignore the fact they seem to have achieved it an unnecessarily complicated way), the real question is the fork and how you get a balanced setup.  More sag, less compression damping, and lots of tokens?  Sounds lovely . . .

 

This is the best take on here. Bike companies make things to make money, they aren't your friend, they don't care how rad you get or how slow you are, they just want your cash. If that means making a boring, comfortable, capable bike, then they'll make it.

 

7
SteveClimber
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7/3/2024 6:04am
TimBud wrote:
Trickstuff are becoming the Orange of brakes. Hard to have any respect for a company that rests on their laurels for so long (as beautiful as...

Trickstuff are becoming the Orange of brakes.

Hard to have any respect for a company that rests on their laurels for so long (as beautiful as those laurels are).

Huh?

How long have Saints be around for, 11 years now? And Trickstuff are the ones resting on their laurels.

Good joke

9
2

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