I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to...
I was catching up reading all the pre-embargo chit-chat about the Stumpy and you beat me to linking our review, Spomer. Do we even need to cover new bike launches at this point? All you internet detectives seem to get the job done just fine haha
I'm curious what people think about the Stumpy after they read through all the details. As you'll see, I only rode the bike for two days, but I really liked it. I gave more of an overview of how the GENIE shock works and focused more on what that translated to on the trail. It's definitely the most exciting aspect of the bike since everything else has remained pretty similar to the EVO (which I also think is a good thing).
Also, there is no routing for cable-actuated drivetrains...
The naming of that shock is too close to "Gemini" for me to consider going near it.
Elon Musk talked about delays in his FSD prediction - the error was thinking of innovation as exponential improvements. Instead he said it’s more like a...
Elon Musk talked about delays in his FSD prediction - the error was thinking of innovation as exponential improvements. Instead he said it’s more like a series of stacked logarithmic curves, every so often there’s a big jump followed by small incremental gains, until the next big jump.
I think this is true for any industry and I’m not sure MTB is any different. Personally I don’t think bikes have plateaued, we’re just in a period of incremental improvements until the next jump. Who knows when it will be or what it looks like. But I’m willing to bet that in ten years, today’s bikes will feel no less obsolete than bikes of ten years ago feel today.
Few thoughts here, being this is something I often think about.
First, I agree that most technology changes in big jumps followed by long periods of optimization. I can point at all sorts of things, such as the jet engine to showcase this type of pattern.
That said, what I am really saying as its applied to bicycles is very simple - I no longer am compelled to buy a new bike every 12-24 months for me to find any incremental improvement when it comes to going faster or going faster more consistently. I've observed this phenomonia since about 2019/2020, and it shows no signs of stopping.
Does this mean things don't change or there are no improvements? No. But I have strong evidence that bike technology, as measured by a riders ability to go down a hill faster and more consistently faster, was improving materially year over year up until the 2019/2020 marker.
To my point, if I were to go grab an off the shelf Enduro from 2020 (the latest one that is many years old), I'd be hard pressed to find any bike from 2024 that would let me go faster. Sure, part of the problem is the rider (I'm 39, not 19 - and never was that good in the first place), but I can also point to other examples of this in the sport (with much better riders).
So to your final sentence, the same way I happily ski on skis that are 10 years old, when I have brand new ones to also ski, or the way you'll see a good rider show up to an XC moto race on a 10 year old bike and still be competitive in the A/AA class, I'd bet there will be bikes that pass the test of time in a way they wouldn't have in the 2010-2020 decade.
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram.
If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit.
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock...
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram.
If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit.
Correct, the GENIE shock can be swapped with any 210x55 shock. The patent-pending proprietary part is the two-chamber design.
follow up question on the schwable clik valve - couldn't find a max pressure listed anywhere. not for operating pressure of the valve itself, but the pump interface. if it can handle the pressures seen on road bikes it might actually have a chance.
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain.
My two cents on pricing: give it 6+ months. When has Specialized not rolled out more options with time? The builds at launch are a few hundred dollars more than the previous Stumpys, but they are also within touch of where there bikes have been.
It's like anything new—there will be the early adopters who don't mind paying top dollar to have the latest and greatest. Then, the rest of us will get on board when we can justify the cost. Or we'll just keep riding our 2021 Stumpy and texting on our iPhone 6. Right , @sspomer?
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain. ...
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain.
If you own an EVO, dont buy the stumpy 15................. The geo is basically the same lol. Leverage update is irrelevant when the cascade link exists.... You cant even run mechanical drivetrains lmao.
This update is just a way to combine the stumpy and EVO models together, less SKU like trek.
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock...
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram.
If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit.
It's not proprietary per say, however the long, sad road of specialized suspension made for their bikes has many bikes in the world left useless. I currently have two 10 year old S-works bikes that used their forks from 10 years ago that need lower cups that no longer exist to put on a reg fork and there are only a few service places that seem to be able to service them. Specialized isn't in it alone, Cannondale and Trek are both in the same boat with specialized shocks, but all these special shocks that only they use are usually a disaster or hard to service or replace in the long run and support seems to be dropped on numerous platforms after a short life span. Designing a shock for a bike with a 4 year life span that only certain shops will even ever see will limit serviceability for how much of an actual advantage over standard shocks?
I am legit interested in how it rides but I feel like consumers have been burned too many times by this style of shock. I know many of my customers have sworn off Specialized because they've been bit by long term serviceability of products that shouldn't just get kicked to the curb because of a single product cycle. Paying 800$+ for a new shock after a few years on a $7000+ bike because the company decided to go in a different direction instead of a service is kind of shit.
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain. ...
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain.
If you own an EVO, dont buy the stumpy 15................. The geo is basically the same lol. Leverage update is irrelevant when the cascade link exists...
If you own an EVO, dont buy the stumpy 15................. The geo is basically the same lol. Leverage update is irrelevant when the cascade link exists.... You cant even run mechanical drivetrains lmao.
This update is just a way to combine the stumpy and EVO models together, less SKU like trek.
although the one that would need a cascade link is the new one being way stiffer off the top vs the current EVO
99.999% chance that it won't happen but I would like to see Specialized sell the genie shock with the correct damping tune (if it actually need a different one compared to the gen15) for gen14 Stumpy Evo owners. This would boost the numbers of shock in circulation so suspension service center might be more interested in learning and stocking parts to service it.
99.999% chance that it won't happen but I would like to see Specialized sell the genie shock with the correct damping tune (if it actually need...
99.999% chance that it won't happen but I would like to see Specialized sell the genie shock with the correct damping tune (if it actually need a different one compared to the gen15) for gen14 Stumpy Evo owners. This would boost the numbers of shock in circulation so suspension service center might be more interested in learning and stocking parts to service it.
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them. Dealers will definitely gloss over this fact during the sale too, or even imply that we will be able to do it, which certainly hasn't been the case in the past. But hey, I'm sure they will be happy to pay another thousand bucks USD to just replace it instead!!!
I literally do not have polite words to describe this
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them...
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them. Dealers will definitely gloss over this fact during the sale too, or even imply that we will be able to do it, which certainly hasn't been the case in the past. But hey, I'm sure they will be happy to pay another thousand bucks USD to just replace it instead!!!
I literally do not have polite words to describe this
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you. I actually think the wireless only is a smart move. (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains). Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.” People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless. While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.
I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released. It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you. I actually think the wireless only is a smart move. (Presuming they are releasing an alloy...
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you. I actually think the wireless only is a smart move. (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains). Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.” People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless. While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.
I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released. It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them...
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them. Dealers will definitely gloss over this fact during the sale too, or even imply that we will be able to do it, which certainly hasn't been the case in the past. But hey, I'm sure they will be happy to pay another thousand bucks USD to just replace it instead!!!
I literally do not have polite words to describe this
Maybe? Fox seems to have been able to service the countless generations of brain shocks in the past although that wasn't the case for rockshox. That also means you hopefully have a Fox service centre that is able to stock enough parts and can turn it around in a reasonable time. It still means they need a huge number of extra part numbers and tools that historically hasn't been plentiful in supply.....try to buy the "low compression ratio" air can for a Levo DPX2 and see what I mean! Some countries might have it better than others but its certainly not a given
Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.
Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes.
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes...
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes.
Or, on the flip side, what about Specialized riders who aren't sponsored by SRAM for drivetrains?
The naming of that shock is too close to "Gemini" for me to consider going near it.
Few thoughts here, being this is something I often think about.
First, I agree that most technology changes in big jumps followed by long periods of optimization. I can point at all sorts of things, such as the jet engine to showcase this type of pattern.
That said, what I am really saying as its applied to bicycles is very simple - I no longer am compelled to buy a new bike every 12-24 months for me to find any incremental improvement when it comes to going faster or going faster more consistently. I've observed this phenomonia since about 2019/2020, and it shows no signs of stopping.
Does this mean things don't change or there are no improvements? No. But I have strong evidence that bike technology, as measured by a riders ability to go down a hill faster and more consistently faster, was improving materially year over year up until the 2019/2020 marker.
To my point, if I were to go grab an off the shelf Enduro from 2020 (the latest one that is many years old), I'd be hard pressed to find any bike from 2024 that would let me go faster. Sure, part of the problem is the rider (I'm 39, not 19 - and never was that good in the first place), but I can also point to other examples of this in the sport (with much better riders).
So to your final sentence, the same way I happily ski on skis that are 10 years old, when I have brand new ones to also ski, or the way you'll see a good rider show up to an XC moto race on a 10 year old bike and still be competitive in the A/AA class, I'd bet there will be bikes that pass the test of time in a way they wouldn't have in the 2010-2020 decade.
Okay I hate proprietary stuff as much as the next guy but this shock is not proprietary, its a normal stroke and eye to eye shock you can put any other shock in its place. If you were going to say anything is proprietary on this bike its the drivetrain more than the shock, it can only be replaced with other wireless drivetrains from Sram.
If anything is representative of the mountain bike industry its moving to wireless drivetrains exclusively, lets take a system that has worked great with a 25 cent cable and replace it with a wireless battery powered system for the pure sake of selling more shit.
shock isn't proprietary, but OEM only for this frame.
Correct, the GENIE shock can be swapped with any 210x55 shock. The patent-pending proprietary part is the two-chamber design.
follow up question on the schwable clik valve - couldn't find a max pressure listed anywhere. not for operating pressure of the valve itself, but the pump interface. if it can handle the pressures seen on road bikes it might actually have a chance.
In the "Creator Story" video published by specialized, Matt Hunter looks to be riding an alloy version of the bike, complete with wired (Mechanical) Shimano drivetrain.
My two cents on pricing: give it 6+ months. When has Specialized not rolled out more options with time? The builds at launch are a few hundred dollars more than the previous Stumpys, but they are also within touch of where there bikes have been.
It's like anything new—there will be the early adopters who don't mind paying top dollar to have the latest and greatest. Then, the rest of us will get on board when we can justify the cost. Or we'll just keep riding our 2021 Stumpy and texting on our iPhone 6. Right , @sspomer?
Bike executives right now.
I dont even think Scott would do this one. Like wow.
Big S is watching us
This make me 100% certain that 12 sp Di2 mtb is imminent.
Not imminent,coming in around Dec.
Xt and Xtr full wireless (ala AXS).
If you own an EVO, dont buy the stumpy 15................. The geo is basically the same lol. Leverage update is irrelevant when the cascade link exists.... You cant even run mechanical drivetrains lmao.
This update is just a way to combine the stumpy and EVO models together, less SKU like trek.
It's not proprietary per say, however the long, sad road of specialized suspension made for their bikes has many bikes in the world left useless. I currently have two 10 year old S-works bikes that used their forks from 10 years ago that need lower cups that no longer exist to put on a reg fork and there are only a few service places that seem to be able to service them. Specialized isn't in it alone, Cannondale and Trek are both in the same boat with specialized shocks, but all these special shocks that only they use are usually a disaster or hard to service or replace in the long run and support seems to be dropped on numerous platforms after a short life span. Designing a shock for a bike with a 4 year life span that only certain shops will even ever see will limit serviceability for how much of an actual advantage over standard shocks?
I am legit interested in how it rides but I feel like consumers have been burned too many times by this style of shock. I know many of my customers have sworn off Specialized because they've been bit by long term serviceability of products that shouldn't just get kicked to the curb because of a single product cycle. Paying 800$+ for a new shock after a few years on a $7000+ bike because the company decided to go in a different direction instead of a service is kind of shit.
HOLY CRAP!
also Orbea Rise model updates including 3 alloy versions
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/five-new-orbea-rise-models-three-ar…
watching and doing the opposite of what we think,
at least i don't think it's only me to think going axs only is not great, geo looks sick tho
although the one that would need a cascade link is the new one being way stiffer off the top vs the current EVO
99.999% chance that it won't happen but I would like to see Specialized sell the genie shock with the correct damping tune (if it actually need a different one compared to the gen15) for gen14 Stumpy Evo owners. This would boost the numbers of shock in circulation so suspension service center might be more interested in learning and stocking parts to service it.
"learning and stocking parts to service it" implies that specialized actually give us the option of buying those parts and tools to service and repair them. Dealers will definitely gloss over this fact during the sale too, or even imply that we will be able to do it, which certainly hasn't been the case in the past. But hey, I'm sure they will be happy to pay another thousand bucks USD to just replace it instead!!!
I literally do not have polite words to describe this
Alloy Stumpjumper 15 from the creator story video.
SpecialEd - we created this new shock blah blah blah
Ohlins - Uh we can just provide you with a progressive damper tune to do the same thing.
SpecialEd - We just won't mention that.
Or you're Chaz Maz and you just throw on the same shock from your old Stumpy and call it good.
Are we not allowed to send it to Fox themselves.
I’m gonna go against the grain of most of you. I actually think the wireless only is a smart move. (Presuming they are releasing an alloy model that can run mechanical drivetrains). Having an already premium carbon bike that can only run wireless makes it seem a little “more premium.” People that drive Rivians and Teslas to the trail head will love that their bike is exclusively wireless. While the people that drive 20 year old lifted Tacomas will get the option of the alloy version.
I’m sure specialized has done their homework and they know that the amount of people that won’t buy the new stumpjumper simply because of the wireless only is extremely low, and a good percentage of them will be happy to buy the alloy when it’s released. It almost seems like a sneaky way to build up demand for when the alloy is eventually released.
This guy gets it
And what looks like a cable coming out of the shifter and into the frame. Or maybe it's just a super big antenna.
Maybe? Fox seems to have been able to service the countless generations of brain shocks in the past although that wasn't the case for rockshox. That also means you hopefully have a Fox service centre that is able to stock enough parts and can turn it around in a reasonable time. It still means they need a huge number of extra part numbers and tools that historically hasn't been plentiful in supply.....try to buy the "low compression ratio" air can for a Levo DPX2 and see what I mean! Some countries might have it better than others but its certainly not a given
I always wondered about this. When the whole big new marketing part of this bike is the Genie shock, what are none Fox sponsored Specialized athletes supposed to do? Always seemed weird to have proprietary branded equipment on bikes.
Or, on the flip side, what about Specialized riders who aren't sponsored by SRAM for drivetrains?
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