I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird. Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip...
I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird.
Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip on the swingarm is almost identical to the current firebird. Plus the overall suspension layout is really similar to the previous firebird.
Also, the current Pivot shock layout is a bit limiting for ebikes, hence the angled shock on the Shuttle LT. This layout leaves tons of space for motors and batteries.
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the new DH bike.
I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird. Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip...
I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird.
Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip on the swingarm is almost identical to the current firebird. Plus the overall suspension layout is really similar to the previous firebird.
Also, the current Pivot shock layout is a bit limiting for ebikes, hence the angled shock on the Shuttle LT. This layout leaves tons of space for motors and batteries.
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the...
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the new DH bike.
Could you flip the DW-6 layout seen on the atherton or pivot prototype? Or does the extra link need to be at the bottom of the layout?
I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird. Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip...
I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned new Firebird.
Yeah it has sharper edges and a different headtube style than the current Pivots, but the flip chip on the swingarm is almost identical to the current firebird. Plus the overall suspension layout is really similar to the previous firebird.
Also, the current Pivot shock layout is a bit limiting for ebikes, hence the angled shock on the Shuttle LT. This layout leaves tons of space for motors and batteries.
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the...
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the new DH bike.
I'll admit after Firebird was mentioned this makes a lot of sense. Flip chip is in the exact same spot. Also the chainstay looks short, and Pivot has made it clear they are going to die on short chainstay hill (just like Ibis).
if you want to kill the brand sure, changing the most fun suspension system in the market would be such a wrong move, plus, might not...
if you want to kill the brand sure, changing the most fun suspension system in the market would be such a wrong move, plus, might not be interesting on paper but hell if you try one you'll realize how interesting they are, more than cable tourism bikes or wireless only or bikes with a trunk in the frame
Maybe they want to move to a design that is less prone to downtube failures. Delta link has a bad reputation in this regard, no idea...
Maybe they want to move to a design that is less prone to downtube failures. Delta link has a bad reputation in this regard, no idea how many fail as a percentage of overall production, but I've seen a few.
I'll admit after Firebird was mentioned this makes a lot of sense. Flip chip is in the exact same spot. Also the chainstay looks short, and...
I'll admit after Firebird was mentioned this makes a lot of sense. Flip chip is in the exact same spot. Also the chainstay looks short, and Pivot has made it clear they are going to die on short chainstay hill (just like Ibis).
one of the first things i noticed was the lowered zeb and the slammed (non-dopper) post. makes me inclined to think it's something that may have been modified for slalom/4x, something along those lines.
Difference being most bikes put the forces along the tube, delta puts it perpendicular
nothing that causes problem with an improved carbon layout i think, i'd take a 300gr heavier frame for better peace of mind and reputation, all frames are now not 3kg anymore but 3.4/3.5 anyway
I’ve got some rumors regarding Santa Cruz:1. There’s a new generation of the Santa Cruz Bronson coming for 2025. New model generation, entirely new frame. The...
I’ve got some rumors regarding Santa Cruz:
1. There’s a new generation of the Santa Cruz Bronson coming for 2025. New model generation, entirely new frame. The new Bronson will be a mid-travel trail bike with 150mm of travel and mixed wheels. It’s generally similar to the old bike, but also significantly different in some regards. No surprises with the geometry and sizing though. Couple mm more reach, fractions of a degree slacker in the front end, you get the idea.
2. From now on the Santa Cruz brand apparently will be heavily focused on e-bikes. This will probably be the last time we’ll see Santa with a full line-up of normal mountainbikes.
3. Price increases across the board. Apparently there won’t be any „entry-level“ build kits anymore. Think GX AXS T-Type build kits as the new „entry level“.
Isn't the Hightower coming as well? But I was told Hightower would be MX compatible... which begs the question of why you would need a Bronson. Unless they continue the trend of having two separate bikes of similar travel range for MX & full 29".
Point number two seems little doom and gloom... focusing on e-bikes to move away from a full regular MTB lineup. Define "full line-up" - IMO their current lineup of regular bikes is a little too full... they don't need a MX and full 29" variant for every 10mm of travel.
They probably need to consolidate their regular mtb offerings while simultaneously making their ebike lineup cover the full market. I wouldn't describe that as becoming an "e-bike company"... their site currently has 13 analogue models and only 3 ebikes (including hardtail, gravel & road).
Isn't the Hightower coming as well? But I was told Hightower would be MX compatible... which begs the question of why you would need a Bronson...
Isn't the Hightower coming as well? But I was told Hightower would be MX compatible... which begs the question of why you would need a Bronson. Unless they continue the trend of having two separate bikes of similar travel range for MX & full 29".
Point number two seems little doom and gloom... focusing on e-bikes to move away from a full regular MTB lineup. Define "full line-up" - IMO their current lineup of regular bikes is a little too full... they don't need a MX and full 29" variant for every 10mm of travel.
They probably need to consolidate their regular mtb offerings while simultaneously making their ebike lineup cover the full market. I wouldn't describe that as becoming an "e-bike company"... their site currently has 13 analogue models and only 3 ebikes (including hardtail, gravel & road).
Megatower/Nomad (definately), Hightower/Bronson (I think),Tallboy/Solo (maybe) share the same front triangle and have different rear triangles/links to swap wheel size. I suspect as they inevitably push to trim sku's (and costs) they are dropping the different rear ends and just fitting flip chips to swap between 29 and mx. Cutting the fs mtb lineup nearly in half. And explains why the Hightower is going 160/150 (same as Bronson). It's a shame as it adds more compromises in geometry/kinematics but will be sold only as a benefit.
Yeti: Yeti was what I thought it was at first glance. Same link size/shape/cable ports. DW-Link is no longer under patent so a lot of brands...
Yeti: Yeti was what I thought it was at first glance. Same link size/shape/cable ports. DW-Link is no longer under patent so a lot of brands playing with it. DW-Link is probably the closest 'design' in terms of kinematics/solid rear triangle to Switch Infinity. Probably pretty easy to make a frame that rides very similarly. Also, Yeti's "SB" frame design is heavy (all the carbon associated with Switch Infinity area makes it one of the heaviest on the market per travel bracket) and expensive (the Switch Infinity doo-dad/hardware). Moving to a new frame design would cut their production costs per frame and drop weight. I don't think it's a guarantee Yeti will do the 6-bar on their trail/enduro bikes because of the complexity ($) and weight associated with it. If they do, they will be looking for a way to simplify it as much as possible for both weight and cost. It would ride great though.
Evil: They're in such financial tightness I doubt they're investing in $1mil in molds for a new frame design that will 'obsolete' their DELTA frames--meaning they would need to update all of their bikes in the next year-ish. Which would be $5mil+ in frame tooling costs. *I also don't know that Yeti has this kind of cash either. Also, as has been said above, I do think that the DELTA system does offer one of the most (if not the most) unique 'feels' to a suspension system on the market. Moreso than the Yeti Switch Inifity system. Going away from DELTA would really make it 'just another brand'. That said, with Delta they are unable to do frame storage, which is becoming a requirement on MTBs.
I bet Yeti has a ton of cash on hand compared to other bike companies. They introduced the switch infinity system and then basically have just been selling the same bikes, no constant updates for years. Smart move on their part. No major geometry tweaks, no feature introductions (not even in-frame storage) for the SB160.
I would bet their business model is based on doing a huge change in design, updating all models, and then sitting quietly and selling for a long period of time. Their heavy investment in racing is reflective of that - to stay relevant, rather than investing in yearly product updates, they splurge that cash on racing as marketing.
Given that, it seems likely to me this is a DW-link style Yeti and they are getting ready for jumping from Switch Infinity and to a new design for another 5-7 years.
My theory for not Yeti, if they're switching to this design, they would have done it for their eBike the 160E so there is a consistent design language across their bikes, so the SB165 160E SB140 all have the same layout. This has been a priority for every bike brand that makes eBikes. Yet Yeti made the 160E with a vertical shock position and a 6 link (as you can't fit switch infinity and the motor etc) instead of a design like this.
If Yeti are ditching switch infinity, surely it would be for the 6bar layout you see on the DH and eBike
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so...
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
I think it looks awful and definitely going backwards. I don't like anything Scott is doing, but the current Gambler is one of the best looking dh bikes out there right now.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
They’ve been going backwards for years with all the integration bullshit
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so...
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Podiums only exist for the purpose of selling bikes. Yeti care about sales primarily, and podiums they achieve are a means to that goal. Maybe they are moving away from Switch Infinity to a cheaper layout where the patent has expired.
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans to commercialize the carbon lugged mule, it’s just for prototyping (sad!). Apparently costs like 22k per frame or something crazy. Looks amazing in person. Had a 38 and an X2, no high pivot, had what looked like shortish chain stays and didn’t appear super slacked out, but tough to say for sure.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems...
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
i get the pivot vibes, swingarm has similar layout / lines to current models, and the oversized hardware reminds me of what's been seen on the new DH bike.
Could you flip the DW-6 layout seen on the atherton or pivot prototype? Or does the extra link need to be at the bottom of the layout?
I'll admit after Firebird was mentioned this makes a lot of sense. Flip chip is in the exact same spot. Also the chainstay looks short, and Pivot has made it clear they are going to die on short chainstay hill (just like Ibis).
Difference being most bikes put the forces along the tube, delta puts it perpendicular
one of the first things i noticed was the lowered zeb and the slammed (non-dopper) post. makes me inclined to think it's something that may have been modified for slalom/4x, something along those lines.
nothing that causes problem with an improved carbon layout i think, i'd take a 300gr heavier frame for better peace of mind and reputation, all frames are now not 3kg anymore but 3.4/3.5 anyway
The rear triangle looks like new Ibis with the same 29/27.5 flipchip. Could this of been a proto?
Isn't the Hightower coming as well? But I was told Hightower would be MX compatible... which begs the question of why you would need a Bronson. Unless they continue the trend of having two separate bikes of similar travel range for MX & full 29".
Point number two seems little doom and gloom... focusing on e-bikes to move away from a full regular MTB lineup. Define "full line-up" - IMO their current lineup of regular bikes is a little too full... they don't need a MX and full 29" variant for every 10mm of travel.
They probably need to consolidate their regular mtb offerings while simultaneously making their ebike lineup cover the full market. I wouldn't describe that as becoming an "e-bike company"... their site currently has 13 analogue models and only 3 ebikes (including hardtail, gravel & road).
Megatower/Nomad (definately), Hightower/Bronson (I think),Tallboy/Solo (maybe) share the same front triangle and have different rear triangles/links to swap wheel size.
I suspect as they inevitably push to trim sku's (and costs) they are dropping the different rear ends and just fitting flip chips to swap between 29 and mx. Cutting the fs mtb lineup nearly in half. And explains why the Hightower is going 160/150 (same as Bronson).
It's a shame as it adds more compromises in geometry/kinematics but will be sold only as a benefit.
I bet Yeti has a ton of cash on hand compared to other bike companies. They introduced the switch infinity system and then basically have just been selling the same bikes, no constant updates for years. Smart move on their part. No major geometry tweaks, no feature introductions (not even in-frame storage) for the SB160.
I would bet their business model is based on doing a huge change in design, updating all models, and then sitting quietly and selling for a long period of time. Their heavy investment in racing is reflective of that - to stay relevant, rather than investing in yearly product updates, they splurge that cash on racing as marketing.
Given that, it seems likely to me this is a DW-link style Yeti and they are getting ready for jumping from Switch Infinity and to a new design for another 5-7 years.
My theory for not Yeti, if they're switching to this design, they would have done it for their eBike the 160E so there is a consistent design language across their bikes, so the SB165 160E SB140 all have the same layout. This has been a priority for every bike brand that makes eBikes. Yet Yeti made the 160E with a vertical shock position and a 6 link (as you can't fit switch infinity and the motor etc) instead of a design like this.
If Yeti are ditching switch infinity, surely it would be for the 6bar layout you see on the DH and eBike
Yeti’s product cycles typically seem pretty long compared to most brands, I’d be surprised if they are making updates already. This is a mule though so it could be a year or so out.
Only thing yeti is changing is colors. Look at all the podiums they are getting. Their bikes work.
Am I the only who thinks Scott is going backwards with the hidden shock? Sure it helps with a somewhat sleek look but it just seems like a pain to adjust a dial here or two…
Turns out it's from a Chinese company called Extention Bicycles.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C8_jnanxdzI/?r=nametag&img_index=2
Richie would get top 5 on a 2015 Stumpjumper
So we're all correct, it is a yeti/pivot/evil. Just a Chinese knock-off version.
*this is a joke, I don't want another lewis v trickstuff argument.
So it would seem. Ha ha
Still looks pretty darn good, though. But I'm a sucker for matte carbon and polished links/hardware. Early Yeti dh proto. Pivot dh proto. WAO.
I think it looks awful and definitely going backwards. I don't like anything Scott is doing, but the current Gambler is one of the best looking dh bikes out there right now.
They’ve been going backwards for years with all the integration bullshit
Might be time for the new Spindrift
Wondering if it will have the IRC as an option along with the proper routing or not
They were going backwards when they made the bolt heads T30 Torx…
Let's hope they go backwards to when their gambler was solid. The current frame breaks more often than a Commencal cracks!
Surly isn't this group's core demo, but 'big' surly anniutin September. My guess is an updated ICT.
I guess the Yoke's on us......
Podiums only exist for the purpose of selling bikes. Yeti care about sales primarily, and podiums they achieve are a means to that goal. Maybe they are moving away from Switch Infinity to a cheaper layout where the patent has expired.
6 Bar lugged firebird
I saw them at park city a few weeks ago. One of the pivot owners. Must have been escaping the AZ heat. He said no plans to commercialize the carbon lugged mule, it’s just for prototyping (sad!). Apparently costs like 22k per frame or something crazy. Looks amazing in person. Had a 38 and an X2, no high pivot, had what looked like shortish chain stays and didn’t appear super slacked out, but tough to say for sure.
I'm keen to see how the down tube connector snaps on and off for shock access. Or what happens when you chainring the f out of one, seeing as the frame must just have an enormous slot in it.
I've got this skit in my head of a Scott rider rolling into the Fox pits saying he needs a bit more support during the big compressions and it feels like the bike is riding high, Jordi is all hmm, "yeah we can put a couple clicks on it, what psi where you running again?", both look at the bike where you have to dissemble the entire rear triangle to add compression, don't even think about changing shock pressure. Rider says "you know what, i'll just ride through it". Cuts to said Scott rider not making it into semi's, and the marketing department saying, but man, the performance because you don't get dirt on it. Fin.
Camera phones can be handy eh?
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