The rumour was a mx/29 (bronson/hightower) platform but there doesn't look like there are any flip chips (apart from the usual very minimal one at the shock).
The rumour was a mx/29 (bronson/hightower) platform but there doesn't look like there are any flip chips (apart from the usual very minimal one at the...
The rumour was a mx/29 (bronson/hightower) platform but there doesn't look like there are any flip chips (apart from the usual very minimal one at the shock).
Maybe it will be a separate mullet link you have to buy instead of just a flip chip?
Yeah man idk about this one. Headset routing is terrible for a lot of reasons but I’d eat my bike if you could actually prove that...
Yeah man idk about this one. Headset routing is terrible for a lot of reasons but I’d eat my bike if you could actually prove that it lets in enough junk through the headset to make the shock dirty. Maybe if sink your bike in a mud puddle for a few hours or ride muddy park all year and never clean your bike.
Well, the last Spark I Seviced has been through all conditions, and the paste/grime from the headset/spacers was found all the way to the shock entrance.
Regardless, if a headset, at the highest point, has holes in it, just riding in the rain will cause water to find its way in, it follows the cables and goes in since its not sealed, its not hate towards the system ( also ) but I mean it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Already on the normal ones crap finds its way in, how can a system with openings not facilitate dirt entrance
My Smuggler is considerably faster than my Spur was, on the same pretty mild trails (what I use this particular bike for).My opinion is that flex...
My Smuggler is considerably faster than my Spur was, on the same pretty mild trails (what I use this particular bike for).
My opinion is that flex stays just don't work well in the constant rocks (even on the mild trails) that I experience.
For me, the Spur was definitely a case of under-biked be slower.
This is what I was thinking. For the smoother stuff my Spur [with 140 fork and DPX2 shock] is awesome, but when I get onto a "BC" blue with some jumps and chunder, it makes funny [bad] noises and feels rough, especially at speed. Such a fun bike, but maybe a Smuggler would be better? 🤔
Zoceli started making frames based on SC so I would not call it a rip off
Yes, they copied SC first, but then SC copied them back!
IDK how popular this opinion is, but all else equal, if I wanted a VPP I would prefer the uniqueness of steel over a big box brand. Maybe I'm biased because of how many SCs I see in Utah. They do ride very well.
I may be no enginologist, but I'm pretty sure that damping is the act of turning kinetic energy into thermal energy. That heat has to go...
I may be no enginologist, but I'm pretty sure that damping is the act of turning kinetic energy into thermal energy. That heat has to go somewhere and stuffing the shock into an enclosed space will limit both convection and radiation. Is cooling reduced enough to matter? Open question, but shocks for sure get hotter in this configuration. Do we think this configuration was cooked up in the quest of performance, or in order to make MTBs look more like road bikes?
Moi Moi mentioned the shock performance degrading very quickly on the wrapped tues he was riding at Thredbo. Said something along the lines of it turning...
Moi Moi mentioned the shock performance degrading very quickly on the wrapped tues he was riding at Thredbo. Said something along the lines of it turning into a pogo stick in a run.
Hmm has anyone ever done a proper test/analysis of shock performance to temperature change?As the biggest suspension geek I can think of @TheSuspensionLabNZ have you ever...
Hmm has anyone ever done a proper test/analysis of shock performance to temperature change? As the biggest suspension geek I can think of @TheSuspensionLabNZ have you ever run across any detailed tests rather than just the usual online forum subjective reckons?
I ran those tests about 5 years ago, it just took a while to get round to writing them up. It was mostly comparing different oils to see how much affect they had but overall the changes were pretty minor. I've found on the trail that shocks heat up pretty rapidly to around 20*c (even bouncing around the carpark will warm it up alot) and then starts to taper off and typically reach an equilibrium between 30 and 40 degrees. Through that range the different in damping is negligible. There might be some cases where the rate of heating exceeds the cooling from air flow but that would be pretty extreme, ie several minutes of massive repeated boulders at high speed! Changes in air spring are much greater so more likely what people feel during a run, or maybe the increase in IFP pressure for some shocks (and yes my tests were normalise to remove gas pressure across the range)
Typically the highest amount of energy comes from higher bike speeds so the cooling is automatically increased and the issue self-corrects for the most part
An aluminium shock body will feel crazy hot at only 50 degrees so even the most extreme shock temps people see aren't really that hot. Much hotter than that would become an actual burn hazard for people too! I still want to do some more trail tests (rate of heating could be an interesting metric for how a bike is set up too..) but I think there is actually a pretty safe margin and enough headroom that overheating isn't a major issue. Even Scott bikes have a cooling duct for the internal shocks which seems to channel enough air to keep it under control, especially when all the air through the hole will get directed straight on to the shock. Still a terrible idea for other reasons but heat isn't one of them!
Some more pictures.I love my Bronson V4 I don‘t know how it could be better. From Trail/Enduro rides to Bikepark it is perfect.
Some more pictures.
I love my Bronson V4 I don‘t know how it could be better. From Trail/Enduro rides to Bikepark it is perfect.
One on the left looks like it might be mullet. X2 and a 38 so that might be the new nomad. Pretty early to see a pic of it if it wont release for a year
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release must be imminent.
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release...
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release must be imminent.
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not Mega/Nomad. 100% sure older Hightower couldn't fit a X2 and Bronson was able to fit a coil but not high volume air shock like X2 or Vivid. The new big window above the BB is most likely to give access to air valve at the middle of the shock and easier access to rebound on most coil shock (rotate 180deg the lower eyelet to have access from the bottom for the rebound dial). The flare above the window looks much wider to give more space for bigger shock.
Like that they used the same axle design for the top shock eyelet as for the lower link but no trunion. Also like that they brought back the 2016 pink Bronson colorway.
The closeup shot of the BB area is with a XO AXS groupset so it could be possible that CC frameset are wireless only (stock CC build currently are already all wireless AXS builds) and the C version frameset has mechanical cable port. So still possible for the Syndicate riders to run their current build kit of Shimano XTR mech and Fox.
Glovebox space might be more limited but I think we will just use more of the space near the headset which is rarely used on the current glovebox even with both bag filled.
Still look to be using 31.6mm seatpost, threaded BB and similar suspension bearing size as current Bronson/Hightower which would mean you can't transform a Bronson into a Hightower with a different link since Bronson use 6902 (15x28x7mm) bearing and Hightower uses 6900 (10x22x6mm) bearing.
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release...
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release must be imminent.
With all the Interviews, FAQ for DI2 recently and now the spyshots, I‘m sure the release is just around the corner.
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not...
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not Mega/Nomad. 100% sure older Hightower couldn't fit a X2 and Bronson was able to fit a coil but not high volume air shock like X2 or Vivid. The new big window above the BB is most likely to give access to air valve at the middle of the shock and easier access to rebound on most coil shock (rotate 180deg the lower eyelet to have access from the bottom for the rebound dial). The flare above the window looks much wider to give more space for bigger shock.
Like that they used the same axle design for the top shock eyelet as for the lower link but no trunion. Also like that they brought back the 2016 pink Bronson colorway.
The closeup shot of the BB area is with a XO AXS groupset so it could be possible that CC frameset are wireless only (stock CC build currently are already all wireless AXS builds) and the C version frameset has mechanical cable port. So still possible for the Syndicate riders to run their current build kit of Shimano XTR mech and Fox.
Glovebox space might be more limited but I think we will just use more of the space near the headset which is rarely used on the current glovebox even with both bag filled.
Still look to be using 31.6mm seatpost, threaded BB and similar suspension bearing size as current Bronson/Hightower which would mean you can't transform a Bronson into a Hightower with a different link since Bronson use 6902 (15x28x7mm) bearing and Hightower uses 6900 (10x22x6mm) bearing.
It would be very bizarre for the C frames to have cable ports and CC frames not to, my understanding was the moulds were the same and just the quality of the carbon and slight layup differences between C and CC, not that they have actually different shapes (i.e moulds).
Maybe it was guerilla anti-marketing from Specialized speculating that Santa Cruz also ditched shimano drivetrains on their carbon frames?
Weight on Hightower/Bronson is in line with other similar bike. Same for Nomad/Mega. The one I would most likely to see lose weight is the tallboy. Current frame weight of the tallboy is 2.8kg and Hightower is just slightly higher at 2.9kg because of the heftier piggyback shock.
The shock will get hotter, that is not a question. And they do get hotter during use, that is clear if you run your bike in...
The shock will get hotter, that is not a question. And they do get hotter during use, that is clear if you run your bike in the mud - it's all dried up on the shock and brakes.
My point was, if the shock warming up was such an issue, shocks would have cooling fins on them already. And bikes would have air deflectors to improve cooling and the like. It currently doesn't seem to be a big enough problem to deal with or maybe not a performance gain big enough to deal with.
That WC PROs suffer from this issue more shouldn't be surprising, but on the other hand... Specialized and the Demo proto being run covered anyone? I would bet they would do something until now if enclosing the shock was that much of an issue.
For the regular Joe who can't even set up the shock properly the sleek looks of the Scott will be beneficial over shock performance. And the sales will be beneficial to Scott's bottom line.
As for why do it on the Gambler, they are following a design language across bikes to sell bikes. DH bikes are designed to sell, not to race in the world cup (except for the few race developed prototypes).
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not...
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not Mega/Nomad. 100% sure older Hightower couldn't fit a X2 and Bronson was able to fit a coil but not high volume air shock like X2 or Vivid. The new big window above the BB is most likely to give access to air valve at the middle of the shock and easier access to rebound on most coil shock (rotate 180deg the lower eyelet to have access from the bottom for the rebound dial). The flare above the window looks much wider to give more space for bigger shock.
Like that they used the same axle design for the top shock eyelet as for the lower link but no trunion. Also like that they brought back the 2016 pink Bronson colorway.
The closeup shot of the BB area is with a XO AXS groupset so it could be possible that CC frameset are wireless only (stock CC build currently are already all wireless AXS builds) and the C version frameset has mechanical cable port. So still possible for the Syndicate riders to run their current build kit of Shimano XTR mech and Fox.
Glovebox space might be more limited but I think we will just use more of the space near the headset which is rarely used on the current glovebox even with both bag filled.
Still look to be using 31.6mm seatpost, threaded BB and similar suspension bearing size as current Bronson/Hightower which would mean you can't transform a Bronson into a Hightower with a different link since Bronson use 6902 (15x28x7mm) bearing and Hightower uses 6900 (10x22x6mm) bearing.
Old Bronson could fit both a vivid and x2. I had the vivid and Elliot Jackson ran the x2 if you look up his bike check
One on the left looks like it might be mullet. X2 and a 38 so that might be the new nomad. Pretty early to see a...
One on the left looks like it might be mullet. X2 and a 38 so that might be the new nomad. Pretty early to see a pic of it if it wont release for a year
Or it could be the stout version of the Bronson.
There is also one for the Heckler SL with Fox 38 and X2 instead of 36 and float X.
New Bronson tomorrow. Release videos are already scheduled on Santa Cruz youtube.
Any idea when the new nomad will be coming?
At least a full year out since they just released new colors.
The rumour was a mx/29 (bronson/hightower) platform but there doesn't look like there are any flip chips (apart from the usual very minimal one at the shock).
Maybe it will be a separate mullet link you have to buy instead of just a flip chip?
Some more pictures.
I love my Bronson V4 I don‘t know how it could be better. From Trail/Enduro rides to Bikepark it is perfect.
Can anyone spot a shifting cable or they went full electric too?
You can see shift housing here, on the XTR-equipped bike.
The brown one has shimano and a full compliment of cables. And has room for an X2.
Well, the last Spark I Seviced has been through all conditions, and the paste/grime from the headset/spacers was found all the way to the shock entrance.
Regardless, if a headset, at the highest point, has holes in it, just riding in the rain will cause water to find its way in, it follows the cables and goes in since its not sealed, its not hate towards the system ( also ) but I mean it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
Already on the normal ones crap finds its way in, how can a system with openings not facilitate dirt entrance
This is what I was thinking. For the smoother stuff my Spur [with 140 fork and DPX2 shock] is awesome, but when I get onto a "BC" blue with some jumps and chunder, it makes funny [bad] noises and feels rough, especially at speed. Such a fun bike, but maybe a Smuggler would be better? 🤔
Yes, they copied SC first, but then SC copied them back!
IDK how popular this opinion is, but all else equal, if I wanted a VPP I would prefer the uniqueness of steel over a big box brand. Maybe I'm biased because of how many SCs I see in Utah. They do ride very well.
You mean like this? - https://thesuspensionlab.nz/blog/2021/1/31/effects-of-temperature-on-suspension-performance
I ran those tests about 5 years ago, it just took a while to get round to writing them up. It was mostly comparing different oils to see how much affect they had but overall the changes were pretty minor. I've found on the trail that shocks heat up pretty rapidly to around 20*c (even bouncing around the carpark will warm it up alot) and then starts to taper off and typically reach an equilibrium between 30 and 40 degrees. Through that range the different in damping is negligible. There might be some cases where the rate of heating exceeds the cooling from air flow but that would be pretty extreme, ie several minutes of massive repeated boulders at high speed! Changes in air spring are much greater so more likely what people feel during a run, or maybe the increase in IFP pressure for some shocks (and yes my tests were normalise to remove gas pressure across the range)
Typically the highest amount of energy comes from higher bike speeds so the cooling is automatically increased and the issue self-corrects for the most part
An aluminium shock body will feel crazy hot at only 50 degrees so even the most extreme shock temps people see aren't really that hot. Much hotter than that would become an actual burn hazard for people too! I still want to do some more trail tests (rate of heating could be an interesting metric for how a bike is set up too..) but I think there is actually a pretty safe margin and enough headroom that overheating isn't a major issue. Even Scott bikes have a cooling duct for the internal shocks which seems to channel enough air to keep it under control, especially when all the air through the hole will get directed straight on to the shock. Still a terrible idea for other reasons but heat isn't one of them!
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-new-shimano-brakes-and-dh-drivetrain.html new shimano stuff from the other site, sometime 2025 should be time for a new gen Shimano
One on the left looks like it might be mullet. X2 and a 38 so that might be the new nomad. Pretty early to see a pic of it if it wont release for a year
I assume the calipers/levers will carry over to xt/xtr and they look pretty much production spec. Shimano are VERY good at keeping stuff hidden ,so release must be imminent.
from what i've heard early 2025 👀
found on facebook, never seen before
Regarding the SC Bronson/Hightower picture posted, both the dark red and pink have 36 fork which would confirm they are indeed Bronson and Hightower and not Mega/Nomad. 100% sure older Hightower couldn't fit a X2 and Bronson was able to fit a coil but not high volume air shock like X2 or Vivid. The new big window above the BB is most likely to give access to air valve at the middle of the shock and easier access to rebound on most coil shock (rotate 180deg the lower eyelet to have access from the bottom for the rebound dial). The flare above the window looks much wider to give more space for bigger shock.
Like that they used the same axle design for the top shock eyelet as for the lower link but no trunion. Also like that they brought back the 2016 pink Bronson colorway.
The closeup shot of the BB area is with a XO AXS groupset so it could be possible that CC frameset are wireless only (stock CC build currently are already all wireless AXS builds) and the C version frameset has mechanical cable port. So still possible for the Syndicate riders to run their current build kit of Shimano XTR mech and Fox.
Glovebox space might be more limited but I think we will just use more of the space near the headset which is rarely used on the current glovebox even with both bag filled.
Still look to be using 31.6mm seatpost, threaded BB and similar suspension bearing size as current Bronson/Hightower which would mean you can't transform a Bronson into a Hightower with a different link since Bronson use 6902 (15x28x7mm) bearing and Hightower uses 6900 (10x22x6mm) bearing.
With all the Interviews, FAQ for DI2 recently and now the spyshots, I‘m sure the release is just around the corner.
https://youtu.be/zebFOJnrdTE?si=MqFn4sS0LlUTlbx-
MX wheels
- 150 mm VPP rear travel
- 160 mm fork
- Progressive geometry
- Available in Carbon C & CC
- Color: Kalimotxo & Gloss Root Beer
- Sizes: S-XXL
- Lifetime frame & bearing warranty
It would be very bizarre for the C frames to have cable ports and CC frames not to, my understanding was the moulds were the same and just the quality of the carbon and slight layup differences between C and CC, not that they have actually different shapes (i.e moulds).
Maybe it was guerilla anti-marketing from Specialized speculating that Santa Cruz also ditched shimano drivetrains on their carbon frames?
Design reminds me of my Range. Hopefully that idler is narrow-wide or something.
Edit: the top picture it looks like it is.
Santa Cruz needed to lose some weight.
Weight on Hightower/Bronson is in line with other similar bike. Same for Nomad/Mega. The one I would most likely to see lose weight is the tallboy. Current frame weight of the tallboy is 2.8kg and Hightower is just slightly higher at 2.9kg because of the heftier piggyback shock.
Why are we assuming that it isnt an ice pack wrapped around the Demo shock?
Old Bronson could fit both a vivid and x2. I had the vivid and Elliot Jackson ran the x2 if you look up his bike check
Or it could be the stout version of the Bronson.
There is also one for the Heckler SL with Fox 38 and X2 instead of 36 and float X.
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