I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score...
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
Is specialized a street name for anything? Their resale value is so bad i could trade a 10 piece mcnugget meal for a stumpy
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score...
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
It's definitely not number 1. A lot of the people here are too well connected and don't want to get people in trouble by posting photos of things.
It's number 2. It's getting to post season, a lot of the big product releases are done. Trade shows mostly over. Why announce products in late August with availability in September/October when by November probably half the riding market is done for the season and waxing the skiis.
I was also hinted by my local Santa Cruz dealer that mega will be electric only in carbon.
170 Front 160 rear? Or do you think they keep the 160 fork and just bump up to 160 rear?
I think they'll sell both side by side and to differentiate it the bigger bike will have more travel front too, not sure if that means 170 or 180. Will be interesting to see what rear wheel sizes come stock across the board, SKU bloat will be real with multiple travel and multiple wheel size options in a single platform.
Longer travel Sight is 170F 160R. I presume it's replacing the Range as there has been no MY 2024 Range.
I missed out on a 2024 Sight and I have a 2025 on order, There were two options (Sight 150 and Sight 160), so I asked my shop to order me the 160.
I don't even have full spec yet but the C1 is much the same as the 2024 spec (GX Transmission, Fox Factory etc), but the 160 had a 170mm 38 instead of a 36, and a DHX2 wheras the 150 had a 160mm 36 like current and a Float X2, looks like no coil option on the Sight 150.
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score...
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
Norco is an Australian dairy that predates Norco Bicycles by almost 70 years.
I like to slap stickers from milk cartons on my mates' bikes.
Has anyone heard about when a new Sentinel/Scout might be dropping? They’ve been on clearance for what seems like forever.
My guess is they over bought and are trying to stay afloat. I would guess spring/early summer for new models at the earliest given that it’s almost fall already.
I’ve been “lurking” this forum and specifically this thread for many years. It’s been great, but recently it’s been filled with nothing but bullshit. Downvote me to oblivion
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score...
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
I would add that part of this is also that the major evolution in the last 2-3 years have been in ebikes, which this forum is relatively hostile towards.
Generalization and hyperbole incoming: take a 2021 ebike and compare it to it's 2024/5 variant, it will look better, have better geo, better integration, more range, more power, lighter...
Take a 2021 MTB and compare it to its 2024/2025 variant, it's the same bike but with headset routing, no rear derailleur routing and maybe some minor reworking of front and rear lengths or suspension curves barely anyone can feel.
I think an orifice damper is just that, an orifice damper. The needle adds another layer of complexity. The catch is that different orifice arrangements will...
I think an orifice damper is just that, an orifice damper. The needle adds another layer of complexity. The catch is that different orifice arrangements will cause different damping characteristics - having the same overall void cross section, but in many small holes as opposed to few large holes will change the way the oil flows through them because of the viscosity of oil (compared to something like water, but water will be affected too obviously) and the resulting difference in flow regime (laminar, turbulent, etc.).
This is before the shims come into play. Putting the exact same shimstack on a piston with a different orifice arrangement will also cause differences in how the shim stack behaves as the bending mode, and thus the stiffness of the shims, will change. QED, fold a piece of paper in half (two orifices on opposite sides of the piston, an extreme case) vs. fold/bend it into a cup shape (the Formula CTS with many small holes). Things like to bend over a line, 3D bending is a PITA to achieve and will make the exact same piece of metal to behave quite differently.
Also, a single shim as a check valve is also a different thing as it's also usually spring preloaded so it can move away easily and does not impede oil flow in one direction (when it opens) but does when the orifices are closed. It should hardly add any restriction if it is used as a check valve proper.
So, it sounds like the consensus view is that the Formula CTS valves (at least the ones pictured in the teardown article of the Selva fork)...
So, it sounds like the consensus view is that the Formula CTS valves (at least the ones pictured in the teardown article of the Selva fork) ARE a simple orifice damper that uses different-sized holes and different hole configurations in the changeable donut-shaped piston as the source of damping. The single shim is likely only there are a one-way check valve to prevent flow through the piston in the opposite direction, and the shim is NOT there as a way to generate damping force in the primary flow direction. So it's a dead simple mechanical system. Bigger holes = less damping.
FWIW I think this qualifies as "tech rumors and innovation," because we're trying to suss out how a relatively new product works and if it does what it claims. Step One: Discover new product. Step Two: Discuss whether it makes sense or not. To me, both seem like valid elements of the same discussion.
I was trying to generalize the differences (needle vs. orifice vs. shimstack), not trying to pigeonhole the CTS system. But looking at how the valves are made, it looks like the orifice layout is the main driving factor for differences in damping, but the shim mounted on top of the valve is not just a check valve. For it to be a check valve, it should move out of the way easily, But we can see in the NSMB article that the nut is rounded for the shim to be able to bend, indicating that it is a) somewhat solidly mounted on top of the valve and b) bends, not moves away. Plus the fact the whole valve assembly also has an adjuster, it looks like there is some preloading going on (that's why I say somewhat solidly mounted above) to achieve some changes in the characteristic of a given valve.
Not quite shimstack, but the shim bending does add 'flavour' to the damping behaviour. But yes, like I said, the main differentiator is the orifice layout and how the oil flows through the piston (and then subsequently how it bends the shim out of the way).
Norco to sell long shocked sights from the factory as the new enduro race bike.
Another hot take (in light of rumors the new Hightower will also move towards 160/160 mm travel): keep bike model names in the same category, do not move them around. One of the main offenders of this is Trek who moved the Fuel EX from what was a downcountry bike before downcountry existed (120/120) to almost enduro levels (150/140 with the Gen6).
It can kind of be explained by people wanting to buy the same bike over the years when they progress, so start off with less travel and move to more travel and just throw them the same model with generational improvements, but if you want to stay in the same (travel) range, you have to really be on your toes with model names and generations...
Another hot take (in light of rumors the new Hightower will also move towards 160/160 mm travel): keep bike model names in the same category, do...
Another hot take (in light of rumors the new Hightower will also move towards 160/160 mm travel): keep bike model names in the same category, do not move them around. One of the main offenders of this is Trek who moved the Fuel EX from what was a downcountry bike before downcountry existed (120/120) to almost enduro levels (150/140 with the Gen6).
It can kind of be explained by people wanting to buy the same bike over the years when they progress, so start off with less travel and move to more travel and just throw them the same model with generational improvements, but if you want to stay in the same (travel) range, you have to really be on your toes with model names and generations...
100% Agree. Imagine walking into your local bike shop wanting to update your aging mondraker enduro bike.
- Hello, I'm looking for a new enduro bike.
- Ah yes, take a look at this Foxy.
- No, sorry I must not have been clear, I want an enduro bike, like 160mm of travel, not a trail bike.
-Foxy it is! Oh well, we call it the superfoxy now and it is 170/160mm.
-Oh ok, sorry I didn't keep up with the name changes, but can I still get a Dune?
-Of course sir, right this way, 170/165mm hard hitter, beautiful machine!
-Wait, is this an E-bike?
-Yes, An SL E-bike actually.
-Right, what does that mean?
-Well, it is a bit lighter, but can't go as fast or as far.
-Right... So it's a bit cheaper than a normal E-bike?
-This is the most expensive bike in our shop.
Sorry, I obviously started my day on the wrong foot
100% Agree. Imagine walking into your local bike shop wanting to update your aging mondraker enduro bike. - Hello, I'm looking for a new enduro bike.- Ah...
100% Agree. Imagine walking into your local bike shop wanting to update your aging mondraker enduro bike.
- Hello, I'm looking for a new enduro bike.
- Ah yes, take a look at this Foxy.
- No, sorry I must not have been clear, I want an enduro bike, like 160mm of travel, not a trail bike.
-Foxy it is! Oh well, we call it the superfoxy now and it is 170/160mm.
-Oh ok, sorry I didn't keep up with the name changes, but can I still get a Dune?
-Of course sir, right this way, 170/165mm hard hitter, beautiful machine!
-Wait, is this an E-bike?
-Yes, An SL E-bike actually.
-Right, what does that mean?
-Well, it is a bit lighter, but can't go as fast or as far.
-Right... So it's a bit cheaper than a normal E-bike?
-This is the most expensive bike in our shop.
Sorry, I obviously started my day on the wrong foot
Just been to meribel where specialized gravity were parked up with Finn riding a bike with a cover on again when i passed by mechanics covered it up. Looked like it had extra chainrings. No photos dead phine
Just been to meribel where specialized gravity were parked up with Finn riding a bike with a cover on again when i passed by mechanics covered...
Just been to meribel where specialized gravity were parked up with Finn riding a bike with a cover on again when i passed by mechanics covered it up. Looked like it had extra chainrings. No photos dead phine
Longer travel Sight is 170F 160R. I presume it's replacing the Range as there has been no MY 2024 Range.I missed out on a 2024 Sight...
Longer travel Sight is 170F 160R. I presume it's replacing the Range as there has been no MY 2024 Range.
I missed out on a 2024 Sight and I have a 2025 on order, There were two options (Sight 150 and Sight 160), so I asked my shop to order me the 160.
I don't even have full spec yet but the C1 is much the same as the 2024 spec (GX Transmission, Fox Factory etc), but the 160 had a 170mm 38 instead of a 36, and a DHX2 wheras the 150 had a 160mm 36 like current and a Float X2, looks like no coil option on the Sight 150.
Dope! I’m looking at replacing my 161 with a Sight and over-stroking it since the 161 and shock is the right size to do so. Looks like I’ll be jumping on a MY2025
on the other site, they posted an interview with Bryn Atkinson and this quote from Shimano product manager for mtb drivetrain Nick Murdick:
"I actually think that probably most mountain bikers don't want electronic shifting on their bike today. And I think that making a solid XT mechanical group is one of the most important things for us to get right in the coming years."
also basically confirmed that new saint is still in the works.
after my latest build i'm considering making the jump to an electronic dropper... if the price is right.
I feel you, routing a dropper can be painful. That being said...I sold my AXS dropper and went with one up v3. Can get a 210 drop instead of the 175 max on the AXS, and a much lower stack height.
I feel you, routing a dropper can be painful. That being said...I sold my AXS dropper and went with one up v3. Can get a 210...
I feel you, routing a dropper can be painful. That being said...I sold my AXS dropper and went with one up v3. Can get a 210 drop instead of the 175 max on the AXS, and a much lower stack height.
i mean, it wasn't awful. just a hassle. the thought of just slapping it in and GO certainly has an appeal.
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score...
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info. 2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
Lessee, Mid-August, Taichung Bike Week is a bit over a month away, and the industry is still swimming in inventory. My bet is there are new goods waiting for stock levels to taper before release and some of the new bits will be showing up next month. No intel to justify my theory, but it would follow a pattern from prev boom/bust cycles.
I don't think Norco tout the Range as an enduro bike so makes sense, it's pretty much a modern day free-ride or single crown DH bike.
How long do you think before we see either the new transfer neo or the wireless revive for sale? Hoping this year and with 200+ mm of drop.
I think we may have to admit some possibilities about the group on this thread. Either:
1. We are all no longer well connected enough to score inside info.
2. The industry is in a slump and not developing product at the same speed as the previous few years
Considering the lack of new product that came out of crank works I would suggest the latter but who knows. Until we get some new rumors we can either talk tech or make rumors up.
Speaking of which I have one to start: Norco bikes have a relatively low resale value because “Norco” is also the street name for an opioid. Due to this unfortunate name FB and Craigslist often block searches containing the name. Ruminate away
Has anyone heard about when a new Sentinel/Scout might be dropping? They’ve been on clearance for what seems like forever.
Is specialized a street name for anything? Their resale value is so bad i could trade a 10 piece mcnugget meal for a stumpy
It's definitely not number 1. A lot of the people here are too well connected and don't want to get people in trouble by posting photos of things.
It's number 2. It's getting to post season, a lot of the big product releases are done. Trade shows mostly over. Why announce products in late August with availability in September/October when by November probably half the riding market is done for the season and waxing the skiis.
I was also hinted by my local Santa Cruz dealer that mega will be electric only in carbon.
I think they'll sell both side by side and to differentiate it the bigger bike will have more travel front too, not sure if that means 170 or 180. Will be interesting to see what rear wheel sizes come stock across the board, SKU bloat will be real with multiple travel and multiple wheel size options in a single platform.
Longer travel Sight is 170F 160R. I presume it's replacing the Range as there has been no MY 2024 Range.
I missed out on a 2024 Sight and I have a 2025 on order, There were two options (Sight 150 and Sight 160), so I asked my shop to order me the 160.
I don't even have full spec yet but the C1 is much the same as the 2024 spec (GX Transmission, Fox Factory etc), but the 160 had a 170mm 38 instead of a 36, and a DHX2 wheras the 150 had a 160mm 36 like current and a Float X2, looks like no coil option on the Sight 150.
Norco is an Australian dairy that predates Norco Bicycles by almost 70 years.
I like to slap stickers from milk cartons on my mates' bikes.
My guess is they over bought and are trying to stay afloat. I would guess spring/early summer for new models at the earliest given that it’s almost fall already.
I’ve been “lurking” this forum and specifically this thread for many years. It’s been great, but recently it’s been filled with nothing but bullshit. Downvote me to oblivion
1k MSRP droppers incomin…
I would add that part of this is also that the major evolution in the last 2-3 years have been in ebikes, which this forum is relatively hostile towards.
Generalization and hyperbole incoming: take a 2021 ebike and compare it to it's 2024/5 variant, it will look better, have better geo, better integration, more range, more power, lighter...
Take a 2021 MTB and compare it to its 2024/2025 variant, it's the same bike but with headset routing, no rear derailleur routing and maybe some minor reworking of front and rear lengths or suspension curves barely anyone can feel.
I was trying to generalize the differences (needle vs. orifice vs. shimstack), not trying to pigeonhole the CTS system. But looking at how the valves are made, it looks like the orifice layout is the main driving factor for differences in damping, but the shim mounted on top of the valve is not just a check valve. For it to be a check valve, it should move out of the way easily, But we can see in the NSMB article that the nut is rounded for the shim to be able to bend, indicating that it is a) somewhat solidly mounted on top of the valve and b) bends, not moves away. Plus the fact the whole valve assembly also has an adjuster, it looks like there is some preloading going on (that's why I say somewhat solidly mounted above) to achieve some changes in the characteristic of a given valve.
Not quite shimstack, but the shim bending does add 'flavour' to the damping behaviour. But yes, like I said, the main differentiator is the orifice layout and how the oil flows through the piston (and then subsequently how it bends the shim out of the way).
Another hot take (in light of rumors the new Hightower will also move towards 160/160 mm travel): keep bike model names in the same category, do not move them around. One of the main offenders of this is Trek who moved the Fuel EX from what was a downcountry bike before downcountry existed (120/120) to almost enduro levels (150/140 with the Gen6).
It can kind of be explained by people wanting to buy the same bike over the years when they progress, so start off with less travel and move to more travel and just throw them the same model with generational improvements, but if you want to stay in the same (travel) range, you have to really be on your toes with model names and generations...
100% Agree. Imagine walking into your local bike shop wanting to update your aging mondraker enduro bike.
- Hello, I'm looking for a new enduro bike.
- Ah yes, take a look at this Foxy.
- No, sorry I must not have been clear, I want an enduro bike, like 160mm of travel, not a trail bike.
-Foxy it is! Oh well, we call it the superfoxy now and it is 170/160mm.
-Oh ok, sorry I didn't keep up with the name changes, but can I still get a Dune?
-Of course sir, right this way, 170/165mm hard hitter, beautiful machine!
-Wait, is this an E-bike?
-Yes, An SL E-bike actually.
-Right, what does that mean?
-Well, it is a bit lighter, but can't go as fast or as far.
-Right... So it's a bit cheaper than a normal E-bike?
-This is the most expensive bike in our shop.
Sorry, I obviously started my day on the wrong foot
😂😂😂 so funny (and true!)
Just been to meribel where specialized gravity were parked up with Finn riding a bike with a cover on again when i passed by mechanics covered it up. Looked like it had extra chainrings. No photos dead phine
Spec' going high pivot?
Dope! I’m looking at replacing my 161 with a Sight and over-stroking it since the 161 and shock is the right size to do so. Looks like I’ll be jumping on a MY2025
on the other site, they posted an interview with Bryn Atkinson and this quote from Shimano product manager for mtb drivetrain Nick Murdick:
"I actually think that probably most mountain bikers don't want electronic shifting on their bike today. And I think that making a solid XT mechanical group is one of the most important things for us to get right in the coming years."
also basically confirmed that new saint is still in the works.
Same question about a Spire mk2. TR haven’t launched a new bike in a while.
Friend that works at LBS already have the fox transfer wireless droppers in. Tight lipped on when they have them on sale though...ugh.
Bicycle Technologies International (bti-usa.com)
after my latest build i'm considering making the jump to an electronic dropper... if the price is right.
I feel you, routing a dropper can be painful. That being said...I sold my AXS dropper and went with one up v3. Can get a 210 drop instead of the 175 max on the AXS, and a much lower stack height.
i mean, it wasn't awful. just a hassle. the thought of just slapping it in and GO certainly has an appeal.
Lessee, Mid-August, Taichung Bike Week is a bit over a month away, and the industry is still swimming in inventory. My bet is there are new goods waiting for stock levels to taper before release and some of the new bits will be showing up next month. No intel to justify my theory, but it would follow a pattern from prev boom/bust cycles.
MSRP-----------$$$$$$860
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