MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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8/8/2024 8:50pm

enduro-mtb also mentions it:

"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."

And again in their summary,

"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."

4
Kango
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8/8/2024 10:41pm

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

1
NicoZesty96
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8/9/2024 12:44am
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...

enduro-mtb also mentions it:

"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."

And again in their summary,

"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want

5
8/9/2024 3:22am

One thing about rolling resistance off road, casing being able to flex and absorb a bump (rock/root/etc) can lower effective rolling resistance since it is not deflecting. Deflecting off of a bump takes energy away from moving forward, increasing effective rolling resistance. 

Mostly I agree with Nico in the post above, looks like a good front tire. I currently swap between a Magic Mary and a Tacky Chan depending on the seasons. MM is great in fall/ winter to punch through the leaves and pine needles on the trails, but as trails dry out in spring/summer I find the side knobs folding on some of the harder packed sections of trail and switch to a TC. This looks like it could replace both and be one front tire year round here in GA. 

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8/9/2024 4:07am Edited Date/Time 8/9/2024 4:08am
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...

enduro-mtb also mentions it:

"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."

And again in their summary,

"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want

Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?

1
jma853
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8/9/2024 5:25am
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...

enduro-mtb also mentions it:

"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."

And again in their summary,

"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want

Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference...

Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?

How much lower?

HexonJuan
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8/9/2024 6:49am

Making a tire is a helluva balancing act. If you want the utmost traction, drag is gonna be more pronounced and vice versa if you want the least amount of rolling resistance.  Traction and rolling resistance are intrinsically intertwined. I've noticed it on road tires where super grippy tires that provide corner lean so deep you knock a pedal on the pave in flat corners just don't have the same zip up to speed as a harder compound. For my local environs it gets even more fussy as the temps drop. That same super grippy tire turns into a slippery eel below freezing. Same happens to a harder tire, but IME just not as starkly.

 

4
Primoz
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8/9/2024 8:20am

It's been quite well known most soft tyres become rock hard under ~10°C, Conti's Black Chilli compound was supposedly very good at not doing this though.

2
8/9/2024 11:01am

Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right?  Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls of ridden tires from other brands and then comparing those numbers against Schwable's numbers to see if they're really that different?  If that makes sense in theory, could you get an accurate enough measurement through the sidewall to make it meaningful? Obviously you could expose the casing of a worn out tire if you really wanted to take it that far . . .

I realize the tpi and other things come into play and the angles don't tell the whole story.  But that's the main thing that's claimed to be novel and a differentiator, so I'd be curious on the numbers.

2
8/9/2024 11:16am
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...

sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want

Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference...

Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?

jma853 wrote:

How much lower?

Enough to convince me there’s something to the famous DHR on the front setup 😉

2
2
ShapeThings
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8/9/2024 12:57pm
Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right?  Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls...

Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right?  Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls of ridden tires from other brands and then comparing those numbers against Schwable's numbers to see if they're really that different?  If that makes sense in theory, could you get an accurate enough measurement through the sidewall to make it meaningful? Obviously you could expose the casing of a worn out tire if you really wanted to take it that far . . .

I realize the tpi and other things come into play and the angles don't tell the whole story.  But that's the main thing that's claimed to be novel and a differentiator, so I'd be curious on the numbers.

They aren’t revealing the angle as it’s proprietary (mentioned in review video I watched yesterday). But I’m sure competitors already have some and are examining. 

2
Fred_Pop
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8/10/2024 5:43am
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

Pro is the new name for their high end line.

2
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TEAMROBOT
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8/10/2024 9:22am
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.

21
JVP
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8/10/2024 1:27pm
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

Prohibitively expensive 

10
8/10/2024 8:18pm
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

TEAMROBOT wrote:

In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.

Don’t forget “Factory”

4
thresh
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8/10/2024 8:47pm
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

TEAMROBOT wrote:

In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.

It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis

2
NicoZesty96
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portogruaro, VE IT
8/10/2024 8:54pm
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

TEAMROBOT wrote:

In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.

thresh wrote:
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable...

It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis

Still, all these comments on prices are dumb af

The Tacky on the same website was around 60 when it was a new thing, and the current price is already down, wait a bit and the Albert will be sub 50€ like always 

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TEAMROBOT
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8/11/2024 6:37am

Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?

7
veefour
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8/11/2024 6:58am Edited Date/Time 8/11/2024 6:59am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...

Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?

They came out in sympathy with Europeans and decided to subsidise us when they saw the prices for Fox suspension this side of the pond. 😄

17
watchcwgo
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8/11/2024 8:22am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...

Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?

Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me. 

3
thresh
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8/11/2024 11:36am
Kango wrote:

Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?

TEAMROBOT wrote:

In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.

thresh wrote:
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable...

It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis

I think it’s also worth mentioning - since I completely missed that from the Albert press pieces - that Magic Mary’s are also available in Pro Radial versions now. 

4
NicoZesty96
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8/11/2024 1:00pm

prices talk aside ( in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS ) 

has anyone seen any info about the actual chasing construction on the new Radials?

the Gravity basically absorbs Super DH and Super Gravity into one chasing, and the Trail is the other option, and we got that, there's no information about the actual construction, like they shared on the Super chasing like in this pic, like. 

How many layers? is it the same but with the radial threads? if so did they do a mix between Gravity and DH or what? i could find no info, that might help to understand how the actual protection mught be regardless of the angle the threads are layed

Schermata 2024-08-11 alle 21.53.56
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8/11/2024 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 8/11/2024 1:13pm

'in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS' (conti's are like 189 lol these can be had for just over half from the EU)

Because We get screwed, Goes through about 2 or 3 middle men who all want a cut, not just in MTB but Rc Cars etc We buy from EU/UK/US and often get charged import Tax and still works out much cheaper than buying locally.

in Rc racing one of the importers Got Their ripoff shop Stamped on the chassis of the cars because they refused to help those who bought overseas, which has now turned into a legal case and has gained traction. In MTB frames we often have little stickers from the importer or shop on the frame which is easily removable which is fine.

Canyon is dumb cheap here compared to other brands because of all this, just shame their QC is so terrible.

3
2
mfoga
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8/11/2024 7:19pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...

Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?

veefour wrote:

They came out in sympathy with Europeans and decided to subsidise us when they saw the prices for Fox suspension this side of the pond. 😄

I though the Dt Swiss price difference was the offset for Fox pricing 

1
ShapeThings
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Emeryville, CA US
8/11/2024 11:41pm
watchcwgo wrote:
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of...

Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me. 

Maybe it would be too sensitive for Vital to do a story on, but I am curious as well. Ridiculous a MTB tire costs as much as a car tire in the US.

Maxxis is a Taiwanese company, so both European and North American HQ's/distribution adds a cost layer. Schwalbe makes all their tires in Indonesia (or Vietnam?), I naively thought they were made in Germany — which would make sense for the North American price gouging. 🤷‍♂️

 

2
8/12/2024 5:26am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...

Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?

The dollar being strong would make the tyres cheaper in the US, not more expensive. 

But it is bizarre pricing. My theory is the US is just happy to pay more for it. 

6
grinch
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8/12/2024 6:09am

For years the default tire purchase was maxxis despite wobbly casings and knobs ripping off as their qc took a nose dive. Even though schwalbe, michelin and later conti had as good or better tires. 

 The word is out now, those 3 other manufactures, and possibly the new spesh cannibal are better than maxxis tech. It was cool to see Moi moi have the option to run what he wanted with yt. He started on maxxis but cautiously tried the contis, went bsck to maxxis and had a bunch of flats and went back to conti and stayed with conti. Maxxis are the tioga of yesteryear. The dogs breakfast

4
14
8/12/2024 6:55am
watchcwgo wrote:
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of...

Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me. 

Maybe it would be too sensitive for Vital to do a story on, but I am curious as well. Ridiculous a MTB tire costs as much...

Maybe it would be too sensitive for Vital to do a story on, but I am curious as well. Ridiculous a MTB tire costs as much as a car tire in the US.

Maxxis is a Taiwanese company, so both European and North American HQ's/distribution adds a cost layer. Schwalbe makes all their tires in Indonesia (or Vietnam?), I naively thought they were made in Germany — which would make sense for the North American price gouging. 🤷‍♂️

 

I hate how much tires cost and will complain every time I have to buy new ones, BUT, the reality is, when we're paying $130-150(cad) per tire, it would be like buying Michelin Cup 2 R's or or BFG Baja T/A KR3. Those are super high performance tires that are $1000+ each and made for Porsche's, Ferrari's and trophy trucks. And let's be honest, in the world of bikes, most of us are riding Porsche's, Ferrari's and trophy trucks. 

I still hate that we have to spend $130+ on tires. 

26
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dolface
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CA US
8/12/2024 6:58am Edited Date/Time 8/12/2024 6:59am

Hot take: MTB tires are a luxury item and priced accordingly. 

Edit: @saskskier beat me to it. 

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