So it sounds pretty novel! Read all about it on the other site, and if AP was actually running 30 psi in the wet at Les...
So it sounds pretty novel! Read all about it on the other site, and if AP was actually running 30 psi in the wet at Les Gets, then it really is a big change from existing tire tech. I believe AP has been on the French nearly-flat-tires program for a while prior to these. Very cool to see actual innovation in tire tech, although it sounds like this is more a case of borrowing an existing idea from another application (as it often is in the bike industry). And it sounds like it worked as advertised on the discontinued Maxxis Radiale road tires. Which begs the question: what are the tradeoffs to this construction technique and why didn't this happen sooner?
I don't know how much room there is to improve tire materials and tech, but I know there's tons of room to improve performance. Bikes are so good these days, but I feel like tires are still uniquely an area with so many trade-offs and compromises. A modern 150mm bike can pretty much do anything from XC to DH and not give up that much time in either*, but a modern mid-casing "trail" tire is A LOT slower than an XC tire and A LOT less grippy, durable, and stable than a DH tire. Ditto for choosing tire pressure, inserts, etc- you can't have it all.
*if you switch to appropriate tires and pressures for the event
Schwalbe was quietly saying in most article that rolling resistance is significantly worse which will be a automatic no for XC/gravel/road. Thanks to the independant testing of BicycleRollingResistance people are often now basing their tire purchase on the road because they are 1-2 watts faster at 32kph per tire (decent road at 10w and good tires are below 8w). We won't know for sure until we get 3rd party rolling resistance data on those Schwalbe radial tire and it's not really the type of tires that BCR test usually.
Schwalbe was quietly saying in most article that rolling resistance is significantly worse which will be a automatic no for XC/gravel/road. Thanks to the independant testing...
Schwalbe was quietly saying in most article that rolling resistance is significantly worse which will be a automatic no for XC/gravel/road. Thanks to the independant testing of BicycleRollingResistance people are often now basing their tire purchase on the road because they are 1-2 watts faster at 32kph per tire (decent road at 10w and good tires are below 8w). We won't know for sure until we get 3rd party rolling resistance data on those Schwalbe radial tire and it's not really the type of tires that BCR test usually.
What article did you see the mention of poor rolling resistance? I mean, I did initially think that as I read "30% larger contact patch on ground". More sticky rubber contacting the ground is more friction. But a lot of rolling resistance is from casing deformation (less of a component of MTB vs. road tire though because of the tall treads). This radial casing should be more 'supple' which would lower rolling resistance, but if it's putting more of a contact patch on the ground vs. a normal tire, then it will be slower rolling.
This ties into my other point which is that it looks like Schwalbe is leaning heavy into ebikes here with these radial tires (if they roll slower) and that new set of "Shredda" tires that are basically mud spikes with stiffer knobs. In the Loam Wolf video about these Shredda tires the Schwalbe rep says that tire is for ebikes and to "push the limits of what's possible on a climb". I'm thinking moto tires: tall ass lugs that will dig into and pillage soils with the help of an extra 400w from the ebike on the climb. Brappp.
I was wrong, I read again the vital, pinkbike and bikerumor and only the bikerumor article mention worse rolling resistance: '' More tire flex does mean a bit of increased rolling resistance, so you won’t see Schwalbe Radial tires blowing up the XC, gravel, or road scene right away.''
Certainly makes sense. The layout of the radial tire resembles lacrosse stick mesh and high-tech sail cloth, both are applications where preferential flex along one axis is advantageous.
What this really reminds me of is X-pac sail cloth which has been readily adapted for making bike frame bags (Revelate, rogue panda….)
Cool to see, makes me wonder if we’ll we might get carbon parts (bars or frames) with bonded exoskeletons of directional mesh to tune flex along an axis. Probably not but I can dream
"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."
And again in their summary,
"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...
enduro-mtb also mentions it:
"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."
And again in their summary,
"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want
One thing about rolling resistance off road, casing being able to flex and absorb a bump (rock/root/etc) can lower effective rolling resistance since it is not deflecting. Deflecting off of a bump takes energy away from moving forward, increasing effective rolling resistance.
Mostly I agree with Nico in the post above, looks like a good front tire. I currently swap between a Magic Mary and a Tacky Chan depending on the seasons. MM is great in fall/ winter to punch through the leaves and pine needles on the trails, but as trails dry out in spring/summer I find the side knobs folding on some of the harder packed sections of trail and switch to a TC. This looks like it could replace both and be one front tire year round here in GA.
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...
enduro-mtb also mentions it:
"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."
And again in their summary,
"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?
enduro-mtb also mentions it:"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing...
enduro-mtb also mentions it:
"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."
And again in their summary,
"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference...
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?
Making a tire is a helluva balancing act. If you want the utmost traction, drag is gonna be more pronounced and vice versa if you want the least amount of rolling resistance. Traction and rolling resistance are intrinsically intertwined. I've noticed it on road tires where super grippy tires that provide corner lean so deep you knock a pedal on the pave in flat corners just don't have the same zip up to speed as a harder compound. For my local environs it gets even more fussy as the temps drop. That same super grippy tire turns into a slippery eel below freezing. Same happens to a harder tire, but IME just not as starkly.
It's been quite well known most soft tyres become rock hard under ~10°C, Conti's Black Chilli compound was supposedly very good at not doing this though.
Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right? Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls of ridden tires from other brands and then comparing those numbers against Schwable's numbers to see if they're really that different? If that makes sense in theory, could you get an accurate enough measurement through the sidewall to make it meaningful? Obviously you could expose the casing of a worn out tire if you really wanted to take it that far . . .
I realize the tpi and other things come into play and the angles don't tell the whole story. But that's the main thing that's claimed to be novel and a differentiator, so I'd be curious on the numbers.
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are...
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference...
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?
Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right? Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls...
Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right? Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls of ridden tires from other brands and then comparing those numbers against Schwable's numbers to see if they're really that different? If that makes sense in theory, could you get an accurate enough measurement through the sidewall to make it meaningful? Obviously you could expose the casing of a worn out tire if you really wanted to take it that far . . .
I realize the tpi and other things come into play and the angles don't tell the whole story. But that's the main thing that's claimed to be novel and a differentiator, so I'd be curious on the numbers.
They aren’t revealing the angle as it’s proprietary (mentioned in review video I watched yesterday). But I’m sure competitors already have some and are examining.
In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable...
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis
Still, all these comments on prices are dumb af
The Tacky on the same website was around 60 when it was a new thing, and the current price is already down, wait a bit and the Albert will be sub 50€ like always
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?
They came out in sympathy with Europeans and decided to subsidise us when they saw the prices for Fox suspension this side of the pond. 😄
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me.
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable...
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis
I think it’s also worth mentioning - since I completely missed that from the Albert press pieces - that Magic Mary’s are also available in Pro Radial versions now.
prices talk aside ( in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS )
has anyone seen any info about the actual chasing construction on the new Radials?
the Gravity basically absorbs Super DH and Super Gravity into one chasing, and the Trail is the other option, and we got that, there's no information about the actual construction, like they shared on the Super chasing like in this pic, like.
How many layers? is it the same but with the radial threads? if so did they do a mix between Gravity and DH or what? i could find no info, that might help to understand how the actual protection mught be regardless of the angle the threads are layed
'in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS' (conti's are like 189 lol these can be had for just over half from the EU)
Because We get screwed, Goes through about 2 or 3 middle men who all want a cut, not just in MTB but Rc Cars etc We buy from EU/UK/US and often get charged import Tax and still works out much cheaper than buying locally.
in Rc racing one of the importers Got Their ripoff shop Stamped on the chassis of the cars because they refused to help those who bought overseas, which has now turned into a legal case and has gained traction. In MTB frames we often have little stickers from the importer or shop on the frame which is easily removable which is fine.
Canyon is dumb cheap here compared to other brands because of all this, just shame their QC is so terrible.
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the...
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of...
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me.
Maybe it would be too sensitive for Vital to do a story on, but I am curious as well. Ridiculous a MTB tire costs as much as a car tire in the US.
Maxxis is a Taiwanese company, so both European and North American HQ's/distribution adds a cost layer. Schwalbe makes all their tires in Indonesia (or Vietnam?), I naively thought they were made in Germany — which would make sense for the North American price gouging. 🤷♂️
Schwalbe was quietly saying in most article that rolling resistance is significantly worse which will be a automatic no for XC/gravel/road. Thanks to the independant testing of BicycleRollingResistance people are often now basing their tire purchase on the road because they are 1-2 watts faster at 32kph per tire (decent road at 10w and good tires are below 8w). We won't know for sure until we get 3rd party rolling resistance data on those Schwalbe radial tire and it's not really the type of tires that BCR test usually.
What article did you see the mention of poor rolling resistance? I mean, I did initially think that as I read "30% larger contact patch on ground". More sticky rubber contacting the ground is more friction. But a lot of rolling resistance is from casing deformation (less of a component of MTB vs. road tire though because of the tall treads). This radial casing should be more 'supple' which would lower rolling resistance, but if it's putting more of a contact patch on the ground vs. a normal tire, then it will be slower rolling.
This ties into my other point which is that it looks like Schwalbe is leaning heavy into ebikes here with these radial tires (if they roll slower) and that new set of "Shredda" tires that are basically mud spikes with stiffer knobs. In the Loam Wolf video about these Shredda tires the Schwalbe rep says that tire is for ebikes and to "push the limits of what's possible on a climb". I'm thinking moto tires: tall ass lugs that will dig into and pillage soils with the help of an extra 400w from the ebike on the climb. Brappp.
I was wrong, I read again the vital, pinkbike and bikerumor and only the bikerumor article mention worse rolling resistance: '' More tire flex does mean a bit of increased rolling resistance, so you won’t see Schwalbe Radial tires blowing up the XC, gravel, or road scene right away.''
Certainly makes sense. The layout of the radial tire resembles lacrosse stick mesh and high-tech sail cloth, both are applications where preferential flex along one axis is advantageous.
What this really reminds me of is X-pac sail cloth which has been readily adapted for making bike frame bags (Revelate, rogue panda….)
Cool to see, makes me wonder if we’ll we might get carbon parts (bars or frames) with bonded exoskeletons of directional mesh to tune flex along an axis. Probably not but I can dream
enduro-mtb also mentions it:
"However, the new casing’s increased deformation is expected to result in slightly higher rolling resistance. According to Schwalbe, the Albert with radial casing should offer the same rolling resistance as a Magic Mary in the old casing, which is mainly due to the tread pattern."
And again in their summary,
"an excellent all-rounder provided you can leave with slightly more rolling resistance."
Does anyone know what the new Pro designation in the tire means?
sounds to me like a great chasing for a front tyre, slower rolling means nothing up front compared to the back, more grip and compliance are definetely what you want
One thing about rolling resistance off road, casing being able to flex and absorb a bump (rock/root/etc) can lower effective rolling resistance since it is not deflecting. Deflecting off of a bump takes energy away from moving forward, increasing effective rolling resistance.
Mostly I agree with Nico in the post above, looks like a good front tire. I currently swap between a Magic Mary and a Tacky Chan depending on the seasons. MM is great in fall/ winter to punch through the leaves and pine needles on the trails, but as trails dry out in spring/summer I find the side knobs folding on some of the harder packed sections of trail and switch to a TC. This looks like it could replace both and be one front tire year round here in GA.
Idk man as one of the many people who’s just switched from an Assegai up front to a Kryptotal front does make more of a difference than you think. I even went back and looked at my time/calories burned on a 1mi, gradual, 10-ish mph, road climb on my normal route and both were lower. Wasn’t Pierron running a cut Dirty Dan in the front and an uncut in the rear at Les Gets?
How much lower?
Making a tire is a helluva balancing act. If you want the utmost traction, drag is gonna be more pronounced and vice versa if you want the least amount of rolling resistance. Traction and rolling resistance are intrinsically intertwined. I've noticed it on road tires where super grippy tires that provide corner lean so deep you knock a pedal on the pave in flat corners just don't have the same zip up to speed as a harder compound. For my local environs it gets even more fussy as the temps drop. That same super grippy tire turns into a slippery eel below freezing. Same happens to a harder tire, but IME just not as starkly.
It's been quite well known most soft tyres become rock hard under ~10°C, Conti's Black Chilli compound was supposedly very good at not doing this though.
Schwalbe released the angle numbers on their radial construction, right? Would there be any validity to measuring the angles seen in the crosshatching on the sidewalls of ridden tires from other brands and then comparing those numbers against Schwable's numbers to see if they're really that different? If that makes sense in theory, could you get an accurate enough measurement through the sidewall to make it meaningful? Obviously you could expose the casing of a worn out tire if you really wanted to take it that far . . .
I realize the tpi and other things come into play and the angles don't tell the whole story. But that's the main thing that's claimed to be novel and a differentiator, so I'd be curious on the numbers.
Enough to convince me there’s something to the famous DHR on the front setup 😉
They aren’t revealing the angle as it’s proprietary (mentioned in review video I watched yesterday). But I’m sure competitors already have some and are examining.
Looks like Myriam is now on the steel chainstay
Pro is the new name for their high end line.
In my experience, "Pro" tends to mean it costs more. Also see "Elite," "Ultimate," or the model with the most extra letters after it.
Prohibitively expensive
Don’t forget “Factory”
It’s about 61 euro per Albert gravity pro on R2 right now, which is admittedly higher than 42 euro per Tacky chan, but still very reasonable for us unfortunate enough to live in the US with crazy msrp prices for maxxis
Still, all these comments on prices are dumb af
The Tacky on the same website was around 60 when it was a new thing, and the current price is already down, wait a bit and the Albert will be sub 50€ like always
Maybe our friend from Maxxis can answer, but does anyone know why new tires from Maxxis and Schwalbe cost 50-70€ in Europe and $90-120 in the US? It's sometimes double the cost, or more. I appreciate that currency plays a role (the dollar is relatively strong), but that wouldn't double the cost. Is this a tariff thing?
They came out in sympathy with Europeans and decided to subsidise us when they saw the prices for Fox suspension this side of the pond. 😄
Would love to see the answer to this. We have the same circumstances with DT here stateside and I remember DT officially saying that part of the crazy retail price in the US compared to EU is because of their after sales support in Colorado being built into the MSRP. That never really added up for me.
I think it’s also worth mentioning - since I completely missed that from the Albert press pieces - that Magic Mary’s are also available in Pro Radial versions now.
prices talk aside ( in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS )
has anyone seen any info about the actual chasing construction on the new Radials?
the Gravity basically absorbs Super DH and Super Gravity into one chasing, and the Trail is the other option, and we got that, there's no information about the actual construction, like they shared on the Super chasing like in this pic, like.
How many layers? is it the same but with the radial threads? if so did they do a mix between Gravity and DH or what? i could find no info, that might help to understand how the actual protection mught be regardless of the angle the threads are layed
'in NZ a Tacky Chan retails for 159$NZ and to me it's NUTS' (conti's are like 189 lol these can be had for just over half from the EU)
Because We get screwed, Goes through about 2 or 3 middle men who all want a cut, not just in MTB but Rc Cars etc We buy from EU/UK/US and often get charged import Tax and still works out much cheaper than buying locally.
in Rc racing one of the importers Got Their ripoff shop Stamped on the chassis of the cars because they refused to help those who bought overseas, which has now turned into a legal case and has gained traction. In MTB frames we often have little stickers from the importer or shop on the frame which is easily removable which is fine.
Canyon is dumb cheap here compared to other brands because of all this, just shame their QC is so terrible.
I though the Dt Swiss price difference was the offset for Fox pricing
Maybe it would be too sensitive for Vital to do a story on, but I am curious as well. Ridiculous a MTB tire costs as much as a car tire in the US.
Maxxis is a Taiwanese company, so both European and North American HQ's/distribution adds a cost layer. Schwalbe makes all their tires in Indonesia (or Vietnam?), I naively thought they were made in Germany — which would make sense for the North American price gouging. 🤷♂️
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