Not sure it would result in what you'd expect though.
when a system is a little under-filled, it does not change how the brake feel with new disk/pads. But you could have some weird issue (as the lever goind to touch the bar without braking) with used disk / pads, as the system does not have enough oil to compensate.
The contact adjuster essentially changes the starting position of the master cylinder.If you don’t wind it all the way out for your bleed, the system will...
The contact adjuster essentially changes the starting position of the master cylinder.
If you don’t wind it all the way out for your bleed, the system will be under-filled slightly.
It wouldn’t be disastrous to bleed it without it wound out, but it will change the feel of the brake. If you have it dialed to where you like it, and then bleed the brake without moving it, it wont feel the same as it did before.
TLDR: if you think you’re saving your brake feel by not moving it, that’s not how it works.
OK so the only way it might be useful would be to bleed with the rear full out and the front slightly in. Sounds like not...
OK so the only way it might be useful would be to bleed with the rear full out and the front slightly in. Sounds like not a great idea though.
You would still want to bleed both with the adjustment wound out completely, then dial each in until they match. In most cases the rear will end up being turned in further than the front to achieve the same lever throw/bite point.
Not sure it would result in what you'd expect though.when a system is a little under-filled, it does not change how the brake feel with new...
Not sure it would result in what you'd expect though.
when a system is a little under-filled, it does not change how the brake feel with new disk/pads. But you could have some weird issue (as the lever goind to touch the bar without braking) with used disk / pads, as the system does not have enough oil to compensate.
That weird issue you speak of is brake failure due to the system being starved of fluid. It's real. Back in the dark ages folx tried all sorts of workarounds to get the bite they wanted out of systems. Suffice, most all of those ideas were ill advised, such as bleeding some fluid off or over filling systems. While there are a lot of good folx out here in forum land, safest bet is to follow manufacturer's recommended process for service. At least that way should you need to contact tech support you'll be meeting on common ground, greatly streamlining the process to get things figured out.
Regarding caliper side bleeds, I've never pushed fluid from that end first. After a bleed where there was clearly brake pad dust in the fluid, I always load up the lever end syringe with enough fluid to push out what's in the caliper, dump the caliper side syringe(s) in the used fluid jar, clean the syringes if the fluid looks grimey, fill them back up with fluid as well as adding more fluid to the lever side syringe then performing the bleed/air bubble removal dance.
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet), so I never went back.
Fast forward to this week and I put in the organic pads that come with my Hayes Dominions - they come with both. Rode them in the wet and they felt surprising powerful, maybe even a little skiddy. Seems like they have faster initial bite, but maybe lack final power when really into them? Dunno, I'm easing back into riding after hip surgery, so have't really pushed them yet.
Anyone have experience with these Hayes organics? I know the term organic is a broad and ill-defined term, so it's hard to compare across brands. What are the pros and cons? One big pro is they're quiet. I assume pad life is the big con.
I really, really like a quiet bike, so I'm wondering if they might actually be viable.
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet)...
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet), so I never went back.
Fast forward to this week and I put in the organic pads that come with my Hayes Dominions - they come with both. Rode them in the wet and they felt surprising powerful, maybe even a little skiddy. Seems like they have faster initial bite, but maybe lack final power when really into them? Dunno, I'm easing back into riding after hip surgery, so have't really pushed them yet.
Anyone have experience with these Hayes organics? I know the term organic is a broad and ill-defined term, so it's hard to compare across brands. What are the pros and cons? One big pro is they're quiet. I assume pad life is the big con.
I really, really like a quiet bike, so I'm wondering if they might actually be viable.
I didn't like them too much, they felt a bit low on power. I'm running Galfer pads now (black and red I believe, but I'm sure they're not the green race ones) and I prefer them
Yes I have been using Sinter green pads for over a year on TRP DHR evo brakes. Zero complaints other than a bit fast pad wear on the rear brake but that is expected with soft compound pads. I want to try the blue or black pads on the read brake next to see if I can get a more consistent front/rear lever feel between bleeds. Since the rear brake smokes pads faster than the front (for me at least), I am thinking running different pads for each brake may be a good idea.
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet)...
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet), so I never went back.
Fast forward to this week and I put in the organic pads that come with my Hayes Dominions - they come with both. Rode them in the wet and they felt surprising powerful, maybe even a little skiddy. Seems like they have faster initial bite, but maybe lack final power when really into them? Dunno, I'm easing back into riding after hip surgery, so have't really pushed them yet.
Anyone have experience with these Hayes organics? I know the term organic is a broad and ill-defined term, so it's hard to compare across brands. What are the pros and cons? One big pro is they're quiet. I assume pad life is the big con.
I really, really like a quiet bike, so I'm wondering if they might actually be viable.
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic felt like they had a bit sharper bite and better modulation plus were quieter, but wore out faster. On my ebike I ran black front, copper rear, and on my pedal bike ran black/black. The Galfer green pads are a nice upgrade up front over the Hayes black, but wear out too fast in the rear. Galfer purple is an upgrade for the rear but they're not available for Hayes in the US so you've got to order them from EU.
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic...
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic felt like they had a bit sharper bite and better modulation plus were quieter, but wore out faster. On my ebike I ran black front, copper rear, and on my pedal bike ran black/black. The Galfer green pads are a nice upgrade up front over the Hayes black, but wear out too fast in the rear. Galfer purple is an upgrade for the rear but they're not available for Hayes in the US so you've got to order them from EU.
Thanks for that. I actually dislike the quicker bite of the organic/blacks on the rear as I enjoy riding steep rocks slabs where it's easy to skid and loose the rear. That said, I can probably get used to them if I run them on both bikes.
The Galfer greens were indeed impressive when I tried them, but I need my pads to last more than a month. If I were a racer, they'd be an easy choice.
How noisy are the Galfer purple? Quieter than stock metallic pads? I've been tempted by them, but if they're not available USA, that's out.
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic...
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic felt like they had a bit sharper bite and better modulation plus were quieter, but wore out faster. On my ebike I ran black front, copper rear, and on my pedal bike ran black/black. The Galfer green pads are a nice upgrade up front over the Hayes black, but wear out too fast in the rear. Galfer purple is an upgrade for the rear but they're not available for Hayes in the US so you've got to order them from EU.
Thanks for that. I actually dislike the quicker bite of the organic/blacks on the rear as I enjoy riding steep rocks slabs where it's easy to...
Thanks for that. I actually dislike the quicker bite of the organic/blacks on the rear as I enjoy riding steep rocks slabs where it's easy to skid and loose the rear. That said, I can probably get used to them if I run them on both bikes.
The Galfer greens were indeed impressive when I tried them, but I need my pads to last more than a month. If I were a racer, they'd be an easy choice.
How noisy are the Galfer purple? Quieter than stock metallic pads? I've been tempted by them, but if they're not available USA, that's out.
I'd say the noise of the purples is in between Hayes black and copper - maybe a bit noisier than the blacks but a lot less than the copper. They're not instant bed-in like the greens, but do bed in pretty quick. I ordered 6 sets of the purple from EU for me and a buddy who also has Hayes for a total that worked out to about $25/set, so pretty good value if you buy in bulk.
Does anyone have any tips on reducing the lever throw on Dominions? I love the light lever feel but there is quite a bit of throw before you get into the meat of the braking force. Something the testers seem to have noticed too in the brake test that just dropped.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had issues when winding it too far in with brakes locking up.
Wow, that is a pretty harsh but well reasoned review. Credit to the Loam Wolf for trying to investigate and resolve the issues and giving an honest report of the facts, without the sugar coating that you sometimes see with publications trying to keep their advertisers happy.
A lot of the flaws in this video seem to be down to bleed and setup issues? Especially the part about the lever pulling to the bar and then pumping up - clearly a bad bleed. I also don't understand how they could have had a piston pop out during the piston massage? There shouldn't be enough space for that to happen if they were doing it properly.
I own a set of Maven Ultimates and they are still completely flawless after 2 trips to Morzine and a bunch of more riding at home. The lever bite will migrate out eeever so slightly if I'm braking hard in quick succession (as with any hydraulic system) but it's a predictable and minor change. I also prefer the slightly firmer lever feel personally. The Dominion levers I had before felt fragile and flimsy - plus crazy amounts of free throw.
Getting a perfect bleed does take some time though. You have to be careful not to introduce a bubble when connecting the bleed syringes with their new Pro bleed kit, and vacuum bleeding too hard can also suck in air around the bleed port which then gets pushed into the brake as you release the vacuum. Once they're bled properly though they're pretty much perfect.
A lot of the flaws in this video seem to be down to bleed and setup issues? Especially the part about the lever pulling to the...
A lot of the flaws in this video seem to be down to bleed and setup issues? Especially the part about the lever pulling to the bar and then pumping up - clearly a bad bleed. I also don't understand how they could have had a piston pop out during the piston massage? There shouldn't be enough space for that to happen if they were doing it properly.
I own a set of Maven Ultimates and they are still completely flawless after 2 trips to Morzine and a bunch of more riding at home. The lever bite will migrate out eeever so slightly if I'm braking hard in quick succession (as with any hydraulic system) but it's a predictable and minor change. I also prefer the slightly firmer lever feel personally. The Dominion levers I had before felt fragile and flimsy - plus crazy amounts of free throw.
Getting a perfect bleed does take some time though. You have to be careful not to introduce a bubble when connecting the bleed syringes with their new Pro bleed kit, and vacuum bleeding too hard can also suck in air around the bleed port which then gets pushed into the brake as you release the vacuum. Once they're bled properly though they're pretty much perfect.
Agreed, having dealt with 10+ pairs of Mavens personally at work, once you get a good bleed/massage they are dialed. Very important to pull a small amount of vacuum when first connecting the syringe. Also, I'm sure most are aware but doing a really, really good job of degassing the fluid is just as key. The amount of dissolved air in brake fluids never ceases to amaze me. Personally I prefer my Tech 4's but the Mavens are a really solid set of stoppers, especially for heavier riders/bikes.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had...
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had issues when winding it too far in with brakes locking up.
If the brake is properly bled and you screw it all.on, there is almost no lever movement. 😄
Try and error untill.front amd rear feela the same.
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to bikes, so for them to have consistent issues across all 3 levels of the platform is certainly something. Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario. Bigger though is those issues seem pretty common amongst a lot of the initial reviews and buys, and now you have folx throwing money for aftermarket lever blade kits to try to remedy what is either a service or manufacturing issue. The initial breakaway issue had me wondering if SRAM used an o ring on the MC piston, but that's not the case, so then I look to the caliper pistons and the mates between them and the seals. If the pistons and/or seals are too big or the bores are undersized, that can lead to that feel. You'd have to pull harder to overcome the stiction and get that initial piston movement. (EDIT: the seal durometer can also contribute to that effect). One could swap out the caliper to another mineral oil system and see if that disappears, but without proper go/no go gauges it would only hint to the problem.
On a sep note, kudos to the Vital staff for testing the brakes as they come from manufacturers. Having control pads and rotors isn't a terrible idea, but since most people will buy and run what the manufacturer specs it creates a better real world scenario for end users to digest. You can always hop up or dumb down a brake with AM parts, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who would think having to do more than change rotor size on a new set of brakes isn't exactly a desirable trait for a brake to have.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had...
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had issues when winding it too far in with brakes locking up.
If the brake is properly bled and you screw it all.on, there is almost no lever movement. 😄
Try and error untill.front amd rear feela the same.
(Pic grabbed from NSMB )
See the big hole behind the 3 smaller holes? That's essentially the amount of adjustment you have. I'll wager that's maybe 3 complete revolutions at the adjuster. You'll find out if you went too far when you try to bleed the system and it won't accept any fluid.
IMO, the Hayes bleed instructions may not have the bleed process 100%. The orientation of the bleed ports referenced to the timing and compensator ports on the MC may create a scenario where an air pocket can be trapped in the MC bore, in front of the primary seal and/or between the primary and secondary. I've only set up 2 sets so I'm definitely not an expert on the system but I took a bit of time to look at the flow path and compared them to the positions called out in their vid. I followed my gut and neither set has given the owner a hint of an issue. I've decided that if/when my Chinesium brake test/experiment goes awry they'll be replaced with the Doms, so I'll continue following people's journeys.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use the Torx fitting on the pushrod to adjust the depth without having to remove the lever assembly. Since they state they set these up from the factory with the closest bite point, from a manufacturing side no way are they gonna remove a lever and work by trial and error to find that point.
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to...
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to bikes, so for them to have consistent issues across all 3 levels of the platform is certainly something. Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario. Bigger though is those issues seem pretty common amongst a lot of the initial reviews and buys, and now you have folx throwing money for aftermarket lever blade kits to try to remedy what is either a service or manufacturing issue. The initial breakaway issue had me wondering if SRAM used an o ring on the MC piston, but that's not the case, so then I look to the caliper pistons and the mates between them and the seals. If the pistons and/or seals are too big or the bores are undersized, that can lead to that feel. You'd have to pull harder to overcome the stiction and get that initial piston movement. (EDIT: the seal durometer can also contribute to that effect). One could swap out the caliper to another mineral oil system and see if that disappears, but without proper go/no go gauges it would only hint to the problem.
On a sep note, kudos to the Vital staff for testing the brakes as they come from manufacturers. Having control pads and rotors isn't a terrible idea, but since most people will buy and run what the manufacturer specs it creates a better real world scenario for end users to digest. You can always hop up or dumb down a brake with AM parts, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who would think having to do more than change rotor size on a new set of brakes isn't exactly a desirable trait for a brake to have.
I'm sorry, but all of their issues do make them sound exactly like rubes. Managing to pop out a piston while doing piston massage? If you're doing what you're supposed to (leave pads in, insert thin side of pad spacer, advance pistons until pads hit the spacer, hold, flip the pad spacer to use thick side to force them back, repeat), that's not even physically possible. Like, there's not enough space for the piston to come out.
The problem with a lot of reviewers and even bike shop mechanics is that they assume that because something looks similar to something they've used before, and they've done things a certain way with that thing, their process will work. Instead of something obvious like RTFM (or WTFV). Documentation is there for a reason. Willful ignorance is not an excuse.
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to...
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to bikes, so for them to have consistent issues across all 3 levels of the platform is certainly something. Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario. Bigger though is those issues seem pretty common amongst a lot of the initial reviews and buys, and now you have folx throwing money for aftermarket lever blade kits to try to remedy what is either a service or manufacturing issue. The initial breakaway issue had me wondering if SRAM used an o ring on the MC piston, but that's not the case, so then I look to the caliper pistons and the mates between them and the seals. If the pistons and/or seals are too big or the bores are undersized, that can lead to that feel. You'd have to pull harder to overcome the stiction and get that initial piston movement. (EDIT: the seal durometer can also contribute to that effect). One could swap out the caliper to another mineral oil system and see if that disappears, but without proper go/no go gauges it would only hint to the problem.
On a sep note, kudos to the Vital staff for testing the brakes as they come from manufacturers. Having control pads and rotors isn't a terrible idea, but since most people will buy and run what the manufacturer specs it creates a better real world scenario for end users to digest. You can always hop up or dumb down a brake with AM parts, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who would think having to do more than change rotor size on a new set of brakes isn't exactly a desirable trait for a brake to have.
I'm sorry, but all of their issues do make them sound exactly like rubes. Managing to pop out a piston while doing piston massage? If you're...
I'm sorry, but all of their issues do make them sound exactly like rubes. Managing to pop out a piston while doing piston massage? If you're doing what you're supposed to (leave pads in, insert thin side of pad spacer, advance pistons until pads hit the spacer, hold, flip the pad spacer to use thick side to force them back, repeat), that's not even physically possible. Like, there's not enough space for the piston to come out.
The problem with a lot of reviewers and even bike shop mechanics is that they assume that because something looks similar to something they've used before, and they've done things a certain way with that thing, their process will work. Instead of something obvious like RTFM (or WTFV). Documentation is there for a reason. Willful ignorance is not an excuse.
Righto, hence that "Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario." bit in there. Good mechs can be complacent in their own undoing.
Running them on my Dominions and my Radic's. Best pads ive used thus far, really good bite and lots of power, almost too much on the Radic's but im not complaining. They replaced MTX Golds on the Dominions. Had previously run the Hayes Sintered, and the Organic pads. MTX Golds were good, lasted a long time, but had a soft bite and lacked power until they really got hot. My "local" riding is a lot of winch and plummet stuff and they never got enough heat in them, to feel grabby. The few times I did some bigger runs, 4K+ foot runs and they would feel pretty good. Tried them with a few rotors and it never really seemed to make a difference.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever. the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the...
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use...
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use the Torx fitting on the pushrod to adjust the depth without having to remove the lever assembly. Since they state they set these up from the factory with the closest bite point, from a manufacturing side no way are they gonna remove a lever and work by trial and error to find that point.
You sir are totaly right. (With the holes and grubscrew)
To rod unfortunately doesn't have a torx, you need a snake eye bit, which I (and most other i guess) don't owe. So work around is removing the lever.
Not sure it would result in what you'd expect though.
when a system is a little under-filled, it does not change how the brake feel with new disk/pads. But you could have some weird issue (as the lever goind to touch the bar without braking) with used disk / pads, as the system does not have enough oil to compensate.
You would still want to bleed both with the adjustment wound out completely, then dial each in until they match. In most cases the rear will end up being turned in further than the front to achieve the same lever throw/bite point.
That weird issue you speak of is brake failure due to the system being starved of fluid. It's real. Back in the dark ages folx tried all sorts of workarounds to get the bite they wanted out of systems. Suffice, most all of those ideas were ill advised, such as bleeding some fluid off or over filling systems. While there are a lot of good folx out here in forum land, safest bet is to follow manufacturer's recommended process for service. At least that way should you need to contact tech support you'll be meeting on common ground, greatly streamlining the process to get things figured out.
Regarding caliper side bleeds, I've never pushed fluid from that end first. After a bleed where there was clearly brake pad dust in the fluid, I always load up the lever end syringe with enough fluid to push out what's in the caliper, dump the caliper side syringe(s) in the used fluid jar, clean the syringes if the fluid looks grimey, fill them back up with fluid as well as adding more fluid to the lever side syringe then performing the bleed/air bubble removal dance.
I've pretty much always used sintered/metallic pads. Tried organics in Codes once because I had them, and they literally lasted 3 days of Whistler park (wet), so I never went back.
Fast forward to this week and I put in the organic pads that come with my Hayes Dominions - they come with both. Rode them in the wet and they felt surprising powerful, maybe even a little skiddy. Seems like they have faster initial bite, but maybe lack final power when really into them? Dunno, I'm easing back into riding after hip surgery, so have't really pushed them yet.
Anyone have experience with these Hayes organics? I know the term organic is a broad and ill-defined term, so it's hard to compare across brands. What are the pros and cons? One big pro is they're quiet. I assume pad life is the big con.
I really, really like a quiet bike, so I'm wondering if they might actually be viable.
I didn't like them too much, they felt a bit low on power. I'm running Galfer pads now (black and red I believe, but I'm sure they're not the green race ones) and I prefer them
Anyone tried the sinter green on some brakes?
Used green Galfer pads on my MT7s last year. If i remember correctly it was quite similar to Maguras own Race pads, both in feel and wear.
Only went back to Magura pads because i got some sets really cheap.
he asked about pads from slovenian company sinter...
Was to quick, and mixed his question with the previous post where Galfer was written.🤡
Yes I have been using Sinter green pads for over a year on TRP DHR evo brakes. Zero complaints other than a bit fast pad wear on the rear brake but that is expected with soft compound pads. I want to try the blue or black pads on the read brake next to see if I can get a more consistent front/rear lever feel between bleeds. Since the rear brake smokes pads faster than the front (for me at least), I am thinking running different pads for each brake may be a good idea.
When I ran Hayes, I preferred the blacks to the copper pads. The copper was noisier and seemed to glaze easier, but lasted longer. The organic felt like they had a bit sharper bite and better modulation plus were quieter, but wore out faster. On my ebike I ran black front, copper rear, and on my pedal bike ran black/black. The Galfer green pads are a nice upgrade up front over the Hayes black, but wear out too fast in the rear. Galfer purple is an upgrade for the rear but they're not available for Hayes in the US so you've got to order them from EU.
Thanks for that. I actually dislike the quicker bite of the organic/blacks on the rear as I enjoy riding steep rocks slabs where it's easy to skid and loose the rear. That said, I can probably get used to them if I run them on both bikes.
The Galfer greens were indeed impressive when I tried them, but I need my pads to last more than a month. If I were a racer, they'd be an easy choice.
How noisy are the Galfer purple? Quieter than stock metallic pads? I've been tempted by them, but if they're not available USA, that's out.
I'd say the noise of the purples is in between Hayes black and copper - maybe a bit noisier than the blacks but a lot less than the copper. They're not instant bed-in like the greens, but do bed in pretty quick. I ordered 6 sets of the purple from EU for me and a buddy who also has Hayes for a total that worked out to about $25/set, so pretty good value if you buy in bulk.
Does anyone have any tips on reducing the lever throw on Dominions? I love the light lever feel but there is quite a bit of throw before you get into the meat of the braking force. Something the testers seem to have noticed too in the brake test that just dropped.
remove lever, loosen grub screw (red) handscrew in the lever with the plate (blue), tighten grub screw, install lever.
the closer the "plate" to the pivot, the less lever throw.
https://theloamwolf.com/2024/10/30/review-sram-maven-disc-brakes/ I'm just gonna leave this here
How many turns did you turn it in? All the way in? Jogged my memory and back on page 12, looks like some folks have had issues when winding it too far in with brakes locking up.
Wow, that is a pretty harsh but well reasoned review. Credit to the Loam Wolf for trying to investigate and resolve the issues and giving an honest report of the facts, without the sugar coating that you sometimes see with publications trying to keep their advertisers happy.
That video is a breath of fresh air, after all these influencer/sponsored videos we get.
A lot of the flaws in this video seem to be down to bleed and setup issues? Especially the part about the lever pulling to the bar and then pumping up - clearly a bad bleed. I also don't understand how they could have had a piston pop out during the piston massage? There shouldn't be enough space for that to happen if they were doing it properly.
I own a set of Maven Ultimates and they are still completely flawless after 2 trips to Morzine and a bunch of more riding at home. The lever bite will migrate out eeever so slightly if I'm braking hard in quick succession (as with any hydraulic system) but it's a predictable and minor change. I also prefer the slightly firmer lever feel personally. The Dominion levers I had before felt fragile and flimsy - plus crazy amounts of free throw.
Getting a perfect bleed does take some time though. You have to be careful not to introduce a bubble when connecting the bleed syringes with their new Pro bleed kit, and vacuum bleeding too hard can also suck in air around the bleed port which then gets pushed into the brake as you release the vacuum. Once they're bled properly though they're pretty much perfect.
Agreed, having dealt with 10+ pairs of Mavens personally at work, once you get a good bleed/massage they are dialed. Very important to pull a small amount of vacuum when first connecting the syringe. Also, I'm sure most are aware but doing a really, really good job of degassing the fluid is just as key. The amount of dissolved air in brake fluids never ceases to amaze me. Personally I prefer my Tech 4's but the Mavens are a really solid set of stoppers, especially for heavier riders/bikes.
If the brake is properly bled and you screw it all.on, there is almost no lever movement. 😄
Try and error untill.front amd rear feela the same.
The Maven issue is gonna be interesting to see how it works out. The folx at Loam aren't exactly newbs or rubes when it comes to bikes, so for them to have consistent issues across all 3 levels of the platform is certainly something. Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario. Bigger though is those issues seem pretty common amongst a lot of the initial reviews and buys, and now you have folx throwing money for aftermarket lever blade kits to try to remedy what is either a service or manufacturing issue. The initial breakaway issue had me wondering if SRAM used an o ring on the MC piston, but that's not the case, so then I look to the caliper pistons and the mates between them and the seals. If the pistons and/or seals are too big or the bores are undersized, that can lead to that feel. You'd have to pull harder to overcome the stiction and get that initial piston movement. (EDIT: the seal durometer can also contribute to that effect). One could swap out the caliper to another mineral oil system and see if that disappears, but without proper go/no go gauges it would only hint to the problem.
On a sep note, kudos to the Vital staff for testing the brakes as they come from manufacturers. Having control pads and rotors isn't a terrible idea, but since most people will buy and run what the manufacturer specs it creates a better real world scenario for end users to digest. You can always hop up or dumb down a brake with AM parts, but I'm certain I'm not the only one who would think having to do more than change rotor size on a new set of brakes isn't exactly a desirable trait for a brake to have.
(Pic grabbed from NSMB )
See the big hole behind the 3 smaller holes? That's essentially the amount of adjustment you have. I'll wager that's maybe 3 complete revolutions at the adjuster. You'll find out if you went too far when you try to bleed the system and it won't accept any fluid.
IMO, the Hayes bleed instructions may not have the bleed process 100%. The orientation of the bleed ports referenced to the timing and compensator ports on the MC may create a scenario where an air pocket can be trapped in the MC bore, in front of the primary seal and/or between the primary and secondary. I've only set up 2 sets so I'm definitely not an expert on the system but I took a bit of time to look at the flow path and compared them to the positions called out in their vid. I followed my gut and neither set has given the owner a hint of an issue. I've decided that if/when my Chinesium brake test/experiment goes awry they'll be replaced with the Doms, so I'll continue following people's journeys.
I believe those holes drilled into the MC body right near that pivot point allow one to loosen the grub screws and then you can use the Torx fitting on the pushrod to adjust the depth without having to remove the lever assembly. Since they state they set these up from the factory with the closest bite point, from a manufacturing side no way are they gonna remove a lever and work by trial and error to find that point.
I'm sorry, but all of their issues do make them sound exactly like rubes. Managing to pop out a piston while doing piston massage? If you're doing what you're supposed to (leave pads in, insert thin side of pad spacer, advance pistons until pads hit the spacer, hold, flip the pad spacer to use thick side to force them back, repeat), that's not even physically possible. Like, there's not enough space for the piston to come out.
The problem with a lot of reviewers and even bike shop mechanics is that they assume that because something looks similar to something they've used before, and they've done things a certain way with that thing, their process will work. Instead of something obvious like RTFM (or WTFV). Documentation is there for a reason. Willful ignorance is not an excuse.
Righto, hence that "Granted, if they were missing a step in the process that would work against them. The old 'it doesn't matter how many times you do it if you keep doing it wrong' scenario." bit in there. Good mechs can be complacent in their own undoing.
Running them on my Dominions and my Radic's. Best pads ive used thus far, really good bite and lots of power, almost too much on the Radic's but im not complaining. They replaced MTX Golds on the Dominions. Had previously run the Hayes Sintered, and the Organic pads. MTX Golds were good, lasted a long time, but had a soft bite and lacked power until they really got hot. My "local" riding is a lot of winch and plummet stuff and they never got enough heat in them, to feel grabby. The few times I did some bigger runs, 4K+ foot runs and they would feel pretty good. Tried them with a few rotors and it never really seemed to make a difference.
You sir are totaly right. (With the holes and grubscrew)
To rod unfortunately doesn't have a torx, you need a snake eye bit, which I (and most other i guess) don't owe. So work around is removing the lever.
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