I just want to know how soon it is before we see a Magura lever to Maven caliper (Magaven) or vice versa since they are now both mineral oil? Would a Maven lever to a Magura lever be a Mavura? LOL.
I just want to know how soon it is before we see a Magura lever to Maven caliper (Magaven) or vice versa since they are now...
I just want to know how soon it is before we see a Magura lever to Maven caliper (Magaven) or vice versa since they are now both mineral oil? Would a Maven lever to a Magura lever be a Mavura? LOL.
already seen someone pairing lewis (that trickstuff copy) levers with maven calipers on IG
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
It makes the bars look like they've been rolled back too much like in a crash.
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
Bigger pistons doesn't equal more power is kinda the answer here.
The other part is that sram is mass manufacturing these parts, so theryre designed with a lot more variance in production and therefore heavier, than much much smaller scale high end machining than trickstuff are doing.
I honestly think all the big brand brakes are excellent currently, they're just all different. TRP, Hayes, Trickstuff, Magura are all excellent products. With Shimano and sram kinda a step below that quartet, which is what you would expect for a mass manufactured product.
Perhaps the stiff lever would have remained, we'll never know as he skipped this step in the setup and didn't bother to troubleshoot.
Since the manual...
Perhaps the stiff lever would have remained, we'll never know as he skipped this step in the setup and didn't bother to troubleshoot.
Since the manual states the piston massage step is to "improve lever feel" and the review focuses on issues with lever feel, I would say that step in the setup is very important, as other reviewers such as Vital have now pointed out.
It's pretty disingenuous to put SRAM on blast to his 280K followers when he didn't take the time to set up the brakes properly - no bleed, no piston massage.
The way he tested these is how 90% of consumers will use them. Grab bike from LBS or online shipping box... go ride without even as...
The way he tested these is how 90% of consumers will use them. Grab bike from LBS or online shipping box... go ride without even as much as checking bolts. Most people aren't very mechanically inclined or don't have time/interest to think about this stuff.
The question I have is will they eventually "break in" after a handful of hard rides even if the setup process was inevitably skipped (assuming that's the actual issue at hand).
I would say in both cases that step should have been done by the LBS or manufacture.
The only time something like that should be able to be missed is someone orders brakes and installs them themselves.
jonny's maven first ride review...https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/maven-ultimate-expert-kit-47191
@Simcik - thanks for letting me know that notification came up. it shouldn't have.
Pretty brutal review of the Mavens. I saw other reviews that mentioned the lever pull, but not to this extent.
Pretty brutal review of the Mavens. I saw other reviews that mentioned the lever pull, but not to this extent.
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want you using Shimano rotors, does this need any further explanation other than this appeared to be a prevailing attitude throughout the video.
-These arent designed for intermediate or beginner riders, full stop. Its a peak performance product, designed with heavy use gravity riders in mind. As noted by the Extreme Duty++++ designation, so lets assume that Dale at 110lbs isnt the target market
-Why wouldnt you test all the options made available, or even follow the recommendations by SRAM in the Expert kit, no sense in doing that to provide an unbiased review.
-Brakes that require high effort both help to change the way you brake (late and hard) and allow for more precise modulation of the brake than light action brakes. Again, meant as a high performance product, for those that perform at that level.
-You ever hear F! drivers talk about the effort required to brake, or Indy, stock car, etc.....
-inevitably itll find its way on to every enduro bike on the market, and be lamented for its fatigue inducing lever pull, when its meant for a market segment that is in need of something more powerful and precise.
-Can confirm the Martha Creek DH is a wild ride of non-stop good times. If youve never ridden it, put it on your bucket list!
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
Are you questioning why a heavily machined set of premium brakes that are more than double the price are better or different than a mass marketed/manufactured product that comes in a pretty cool kit?
Christ, if SRAM made a Trickstuff level brake (fir, finish, machining, etc) and charged as much, youd be complaining about the cost.
Why do any manufacturers even bother trying to make things....just to listen to consumers complain how theyd do it differently
jonny's maven first ride review...https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/hydraulic-disc-brakes/sram/maven-ultimate-expert-kit-47191
@Simcik - thanks for letting me know that notification came up. it shouldn't have.
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want...
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want you using Shimano rotors, does this need any further explanation other than this appeared to be a prevailing attitude throughout the video.
-These arent designed for intermediate or beginner riders, full stop. Its a peak performance product, designed with heavy use gravity riders in mind. As noted by the Extreme Duty++++ designation, so lets assume that Dale at 110lbs isnt the target market
-Why wouldnt you test all the options made available, or even follow the recommendations by SRAM in the Expert kit, no sense in doing that to provide an unbiased review.
-Brakes that require high effort both help to change the way you brake (late and hard) and allow for more precise modulation of the brake than light action brakes. Again, meant as a high performance product, for those that perform at that level.
-You ever hear F! drivers talk about the effort required to brake, or Indy, stock car, etc.....
-inevitably itll find its way on to every enduro bike on the market, and be lamented for its fatigue inducing lever pull, when its meant for a market segment that is in need of something more powerful and precise.
-Can confirm the Martha Creek DH is a wild ride of non-stop good times. If youve never ridden it, put it on your bucket list!
The notion that it’s ok for MTB brakes to require high input forces because F1 does is pretty ridiculous.
Dale is a friend, I will see if he will come chime in here.
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but I feel that I’ve justified that opinion in (too much) detail throughout the video. I’m not on YouTube to make money, considering I make less than C$4 RPM after tax. I also never pushed my resume/background in my video.
- After I connected the rear brake, I cycled the pistons to probably 50% of what was recommended in the manual to ensure they were moving smoothly, which they were. I noticed minimal difference between the front and rear feel, if anything the rear had slightly less dead stroke travel.
- The front brake was installed and immediately ridden, as is standard practice with just about every other brake I’m aware of. If the Mavens truly need an additional step that isn’t clearly indicated in the kit’s packaging, it should have been done at the factory. But they didn’t, and I’ll get into that shortly.
- The shifter setup was janky, but justified in the video as being adequate for a temporary test. Shimano doesn’t make an i-spec EV to ring clamp adapter I believe, and I’m not going to shell out $60+ for a fancy one for a few rides. It is what it is and did not affect my scoring.
- Not everyone runs stock rotors, and I couldn’t find anything on SRAM’s website telling me I couldn’t use a third party rotor. The lack of compatibility is disappointing (especially when the opposite combination works) and deserves to be noted for the researching consumer. I can either consider the rotor as part of the entire braking system or standardize the rotor between tests; I'm going to receive angry comment either way. I chose the latter, but the former seems to be more popular, so if it’s financially feasible then that’s the direction I’ll prefer to take in the future.
- People who actually make "internet clickbait" don't spend hours of their personal time replying to comments or going onto the forums to defend their opinions... 🙂
If we take a look at SRAM’s service manual, they mention “If your brake lever has too much throw, or a contact point that generally moves away from the handlebar on successive brake applications, the pad gap can be reset by performing [the massage]”. I mentioned in my review that I experienced a non-distracting amount of lever pump, something I would have chosen to just keep running. Nowhere in this block of text says anything about dead-stroke lever force, so it surely didn’t apply to my situation... right? I took an educated gamble that this would not affect my review...
...and I was right. Turns out I lied, and I had left the brakes on my bike for a few more days just in case someone had the miracle solution. I performed the complete "Disc Brake Piston Massage" process from the troubleshooting portion of the Maven's manual. I performed this process twice, then bled the front brake per the manual, then performed the massage twice more. I set up the science experiment again and took a measurement before and after each of the 4 individual massages. The result was a 780g measurement every single time. I even performed the test with the wheel off and the pads out of the caliper and the result was still 780g. After all of this work, the lever felt nearly identical in terms of dead stroke force and maybe 5% better in terms of dead stroke throw. We can debate endlessly over whether or not I should have gone through this step before uploading this video, but it is clear to me that this process has not solved my criticism of a fatiguing lever design. They'll be coming off for real this weekend, haha.
Should I have followed every step to the letter when installing them? Probably yes, and I’ll make more effort to do so in the future. Did I make an educated gamble that the massage would not affect the specific issue I was focused on? Also yes. But it paid off, and I stand behind everything I said in the video.
There’s a non-zero chance that I have a lemon, or there’s some batch variation at play, but since my experience isn’t unique and it is largely in-line with my previous SRAM experiences, no alarm bells went off in my head. If your experience has been different than mine it doesn't invalidate either of them. I take testing and reviewing products very seriously and feel like my experience was representative of what a consumer would have, and not someone who has connections in the industry. I appreciate feedback or questions about my testing methodology, as it will lead to better reviews in the future, but I don't appreciate 4-5 of you brigading my comment section without all of the facts. I'd love to keep tinkering and troubleshooting, but at the end of the day I'm not paid to do this, I do this for fun, and I feel like I've done enough diligence to move onto the next shiny thing. If I turn out to be the sole outlier in a few months time then I’d be happy to revisit the Mavens with a different set in the future.
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
according to sram claims of 50% more power than codes, the Maven won't even match the power of Direttissima, let alone Maxima
Just going to give my thoughts on the Maven lever hand fatigue topic.
I am going off topic to rant on about Hope brakes but this will make sense if you make it to the end.
For a start I have never used the Maven brakes.
I have always loved and championed Code RSC brakes and never had an issue with them, until I tried a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes. I have always liked Hope parts but previous Hope brakes have always been disappointing.
I put a pair of V4’s onto my Nomad when I built it up. The first ride on that bike I didn’t really notice the brand new Nomad I was on as the Hope V4’s were mind blowing and took a big learning curve (in a good way) to get use to them. They have such a light feeling and so much power than the Codes I have always used. They have certainly made a positive difference to my riding. They give me so much confidence on steep runs knowing that I can just stop and control my speed with very little effort.
Anyway on my trail bike I still had Code’s on that, every time I road it after using the V4’s I seemed to completely messed up and over shot corners. I kept telling myself that I didn’t need to buy another set of V4’s and I previously never had an issue with Code. Until I eventually cracked and brought another set of V4’s for the trail bike and haven’t looked back since.
Whist trying to still like the Codes on the trail bike I did try some Cascade cams. They did as advertised but even pointed out in this tread by the cascade man they can and did for me increase hand fatigue. It was at that point that I realised that not only was the power of the V4’s game changing for me but also the lightness in the lever action that made a big difference.
When the Mavens came out they did intrigued me as I have always liked SRAM brakes, but after reading a good section of reviews they all seemed to note that yes they have more power than the Codes but the lever feel was similar to the Code’s. If that is true then I would not be interested in them as it turns out a light lever feel makes a big difference to me.
For what it’s worth I like the SRAM HS2 rotors and used/use them on both the Codes and V4’s. The best I got the Code’s to feel was with Galfer green pads.
So there probably is some truth to that video review of the Mavens.
Seems like he's running into the same issue encountered in the Vital review, but didn't take the time to troubleshoot.
The Mavens do have an extra...
Seems like he's running into the same issue encountered in the Vital review, but didn't take the time to troubleshoot.
The Mavens do have an extra step now, which requires a few cycles of the pistons to get things primed and set into place. The initial setup requires two to three cycles of the pistons through their full range of motion to help the two-step seals settle into place and center. I made the genius decision of ignoring this step on my initial setup and can confirm it is necessary. After referring to the troubleshooting portion of the owner's manual, I slotted two brake rotors into the caliper, cycled the pistons until they made contact, and then spread them back to the open position a couple of times. After this exercise, my experience was night and day, and I finally experienced the light lever throw and full power the Mavens were designed to have.
There’s also the incredibly likely chance this random Youtuber is going out of his way to find anything remotely negative about a product that has generally...
There’s also the incredibly likely chance this random Youtuber is going out of his way to find anything remotely negative about a product that has generally favorable reviews solely to generate clicks.
To be fair Dale was an engineer at Norco, so not quite just a youtuber. However, not properly bedding in the brake pads and not bleeding...
To be fair Dale was an engineer at Norco, so not quite just a youtuber. However, not properly bedding in the brake pads and not bleeding the rear brake after cutting the line and losing fluid made me skeptical about the rest of the review. Though trying to quantify the lever force with the water bottle test was cool to see- cant really think of any publications/reviewers that will do anything to test (outside of riding, which is always subjective anyways) rather than just saying they are skeptical about marketing jargon.
Being an engineer doesn’t automatically make someone a capable mechanic
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want...
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want you using Shimano rotors, does this need any further explanation other than this appeared to be a prevailing attitude throughout the video.
-These arent designed for intermediate or beginner riders, full stop. Its a peak performance product, designed with heavy use gravity riders in mind. As noted by the Extreme Duty++++ designation, so lets assume that Dale at 110lbs isnt the target market
-Why wouldnt you test all the options made available, or even follow the recommendations by SRAM in the Expert kit, no sense in doing that to provide an unbiased review.
-Brakes that require high effort both help to change the way you brake (late and hard) and allow for more precise modulation of the brake than light action brakes. Again, meant as a high performance product, for those that perform at that level.
-You ever hear F! drivers talk about the effort required to brake, or Indy, stock car, etc.....
-inevitably itll find its way on to every enduro bike on the market, and be lamented for its fatigue inducing lever pull, when its meant for a market segment that is in need of something more powerful and precise.
-Can confirm the Martha Creek DH is a wild ride of non-stop good times. If youve never ridden it, put it on your bucket list!
The notion that it’s ok for MTB brakes to require high input forces because F1 does is pretty ridiculous.
Youve missed the point,
Its not because of F1, as thats silly, I'm just using that as an example.
The Mavens just arent for everyone, theres nothing wrong with that. I'm good with different products for different people, Im not sure why theres a belief that they should be for everyone.
They built a product to service a niche segment, and those people will like them, end of story
There’s also the incredibly likely chance this random Youtuber is going out of his way to find anything remotely negative about a product that has generally...
There’s also the incredibly likely chance this random Youtuber is going out of his way to find anything remotely negative about a product that has generally favorable reviews solely to generate clicks.
To be fair Dale was an engineer at Norco, so not quite just a youtuber. However, not properly bedding in the brake pads and not bleeding...
To be fair Dale was an engineer at Norco, so not quite just a youtuber. However, not properly bedding in the brake pads and not bleeding the rear brake after cutting the line and losing fluid made me skeptical about the rest of the review. Though trying to quantify the lever force with the water bottle test was cool to see- cant really think of any publications/reviewers that will do anything to test (outside of riding, which is always subjective anyways) rather than just saying they are skeptical about marketing jargon.
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but...
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but I feel that I’ve justified that opinion in (too much) detail throughout the video. I’m not on YouTube to make money, considering I make less than C$4 RPM after tax. I also never pushed my resume/background in my video.
- After I connected the rear brake, I cycled the pistons to probably 50% of what was recommended in the manual to ensure they were moving smoothly, which they were. I noticed minimal difference between the front and rear feel, if anything the rear had slightly less dead stroke travel.
- The front brake was installed and immediately ridden, as is standard practice with just about every other brake I’m aware of. If the Mavens truly need an additional step that isn’t clearly indicated in the kit’s packaging, it should have been done at the factory. But they didn’t, and I’ll get into that shortly.
- The shifter setup was janky, but justified in the video as being adequate for a temporary test. Shimano doesn’t make an i-spec EV to ring clamp adapter I believe, and I’m not going to shell out $60+ for a fancy one for a few rides. It is what it is and did not affect my scoring.
- Not everyone runs stock rotors, and I couldn’t find anything on SRAM’s website telling me I couldn’t use a third party rotor. The lack of compatibility is disappointing (especially when the opposite combination works) and deserves to be noted for the researching consumer. I can either consider the rotor as part of the entire braking system or standardize the rotor between tests; I'm going to receive angry comment either way. I chose the latter, but the former seems to be more popular, so if it’s financially feasible then that’s the direction I’ll prefer to take in the future.
- People who actually make "internet clickbait" don't spend hours of their personal time replying to comments or going onto the forums to defend their opinions... 🙂
If we take a look at SRAM’s service manual, they mention “If your brake lever has too much throw, or a contact point that generally moves away from the handlebar on successive brake applications, the pad gap can be reset by performing [the massage]”. I mentioned in my review that I experienced a non-distracting amount of lever pump, something I would have chosen to just keep running. Nowhere in this block of text says anything about dead-stroke lever force, so it surely didn’t apply to my situation... right? I took an educated gamble that this would not affect my review...
...and I was right. Turns out I lied, and I had left the brakes on my bike for a few more days just in case someone had the miracle solution. I performed the complete "Disc Brake Piston Massage" process from the troubleshooting portion of the Maven's manual. I performed this process twice, then bled the front brake per the manual, then performed the massage twice more. I set up the science experiment again and took a measurement before and after each of the 4 individual massages. The result was a 780g measurement every single time. I even performed the test with the wheel off and the pads out of the caliper and the result was still 780g. After all of this work, the lever felt nearly identical in terms of dead stroke force and maybe 5% better in terms of dead stroke throw. We can debate endlessly over whether or not I should have gone through this step before uploading this video, but it is clear to me that this process has not solved my criticism of a fatiguing lever design. They'll be coming off for real this weekend, haha.
Should I have followed every step to the letter when installing them? Probably yes, and I’ll make more effort to do so in the future. Did I make an educated gamble that the massage would not affect the specific issue I was focused on? Also yes. But it paid off, and I stand behind everything I said in the video.
There’s a non-zero chance that I have a lemon, or there’s some batch variation at play, but since my experience isn’t unique and it is largely in-line with my previous SRAM experiences, no alarm bells went off in my head. If your experience has been different than mine it doesn't invalidate either of them. I take testing and reviewing products very seriously and feel like my experience was representative of what a consumer would have, and not someone who has connections in the industry. I appreciate feedback or questions about my testing methodology, as it will lead to better reviews in the future, but I don't appreciate 4-5 of you brigading my comment section without all of the facts. I'd love to keep tinkering and troubleshooting, but at the end of the day I'm not paid to do this, I do this for fun, and I feel like I've done enough diligence to move onto the next shiny thing. If I turn out to be the sole outlier in a few months time then I’d be happy to revisit the Mavens with a different set in the future.
Be kind, and see you on the trails! 🤘
Well - thank you for choosing to put your head on a swivel and edit a video when no-one asked you to. Dredging forums while wanting to champion anti-cliq-bate is kinda-sorta the exact opposite of your cause... nice.
Heart on your sleeve as it is, you edited a video. Congrats. Enjoy your Shimano Rotors.
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but...
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but I feel that I’ve justified that opinion in (too much) detail throughout the video. I’m not on YouTube to make money, considering I make less than C$4 RPM after tax. I also never pushed my resume/background in my video.
- After I connected the rear brake, I cycled the pistons to probably 50% of what was recommended in the manual to ensure they were moving smoothly, which they were. I noticed minimal difference between the front and rear feel, if anything the rear had slightly less dead stroke travel.
- The front brake was installed and immediately ridden, as is standard practice with just about every other brake I’m aware of. If the Mavens truly need an additional step that isn’t clearly indicated in the kit’s packaging, it should have been done at the factory. But they didn’t, and I’ll get into that shortly.
- The shifter setup was janky, but justified in the video as being adequate for a temporary test. Shimano doesn’t make an i-spec EV to ring clamp adapter I believe, and I’m not going to shell out $60+ for a fancy one for a few rides. It is what it is and did not affect my scoring.
- Not everyone runs stock rotors, and I couldn’t find anything on SRAM’s website telling me I couldn’t use a third party rotor. The lack of compatibility is disappointing (especially when the opposite combination works) and deserves to be noted for the researching consumer. I can either consider the rotor as part of the entire braking system or standardize the rotor between tests; I'm going to receive angry comment either way. I chose the latter, but the former seems to be more popular, so if it’s financially feasible then that’s the direction I’ll prefer to take in the future.
- People who actually make "internet clickbait" don't spend hours of their personal time replying to comments or going onto the forums to defend their opinions... 🙂
If we take a look at SRAM’s service manual, they mention “If your brake lever has too much throw, or a contact point that generally moves away from the handlebar on successive brake applications, the pad gap can be reset by performing [the massage]”. I mentioned in my review that I experienced a non-distracting amount of lever pump, something I would have chosen to just keep running. Nowhere in this block of text says anything about dead-stroke lever force, so it surely didn’t apply to my situation... right? I took an educated gamble that this would not affect my review...
...and I was right. Turns out I lied, and I had left the brakes on my bike for a few more days just in case someone had the miracle solution. I performed the complete "Disc Brake Piston Massage" process from the troubleshooting portion of the Maven's manual. I performed this process twice, then bled the front brake per the manual, then performed the massage twice more. I set up the science experiment again and took a measurement before and after each of the 4 individual massages. The result was a 780g measurement every single time. I even performed the test with the wheel off and the pads out of the caliper and the result was still 780g. After all of this work, the lever felt nearly identical in terms of dead stroke force and maybe 5% better in terms of dead stroke throw. We can debate endlessly over whether or not I should have gone through this step before uploading this video, but it is clear to me that this process has not solved my criticism of a fatiguing lever design. They'll be coming off for real this weekend, haha.
Should I have followed every step to the letter when installing them? Probably yes, and I’ll make more effort to do so in the future. Did I make an educated gamble that the massage would not affect the specific issue I was focused on? Also yes. But it paid off, and I stand behind everything I said in the video.
There’s a non-zero chance that I have a lemon, or there’s some batch variation at play, but since my experience isn’t unique and it is largely in-line with my previous SRAM experiences, no alarm bells went off in my head. If your experience has been different than mine it doesn't invalidate either of them. I take testing and reviewing products very seriously and feel like my experience was representative of what a consumer would have, and not someone who has connections in the industry. I appreciate feedback or questions about my testing methodology, as it will lead to better reviews in the future, but I don't appreciate 4-5 of you brigading my comment section without all of the facts. I'd love to keep tinkering and troubleshooting, but at the end of the day I'm not paid to do this, I do this for fun, and I feel like I've done enough diligence to move onto the next shiny thing. If I turn out to be the sole outlier in a few months time then I’d be happy to revisit the Mavens with a different set in the future.
Be kind, and see you on the trails! 🤘
I will counter your video with...
Majority of enduro riders in the USA are moving to ebikes because they are overweight and out of shape. Those riders also probably have a moto background. So firm brakes on a bike aren't big deal compared to riding moto. They are also trying to stop a 50 pound bike and 200 - 240 pounds man.
SRAM made an ebike brake and sold it as a DH brake. No one rides DH...
SRAM doesn't make parts for the guy who rides 100 days or 200 days a year. They make parts for the guy who rides. 2 hours a Saturday 2 times a month.
Remi riding with a steering damper in Bellingham today with a bunch of VIPs.
Remi riding with a steering damper in Bellingham today with a bunch of VIPs.
Looks to be the Pademelon one that's been floating around. They're starting to pop up more and more. Looks Fearon's been running them as well per their (@Pademelon.cc) IG activity.
Formula put out some preproduction DC Selvas a couple of years ago, and rumor has it they'll be released this year. Weight was in the 2.3kg...
Formula put out some preproduction DC Selvas a couple of years ago, and rumor has it they'll be released this year. Weight was in the 2.3kg range, Chris Porter from Geometron loved his.
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but...
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but I feel that I’ve justified that opinion in (too much) detail throughout the video. I’m not on YouTube to make money, considering I make less than C$4 RPM after tax. I also never pushed my resume/background in my video.
- After I connected the rear brake, I cycled the pistons to probably 50% of what was recommended in the manual to ensure they were moving smoothly, which they were. I noticed minimal difference between the front and rear feel, if anything the rear had slightly less dead stroke travel.
- The front brake was installed and immediately ridden, as is standard practice with just about every other brake I’m aware of. If the Mavens truly need an additional step that isn’t clearly indicated in the kit’s packaging, it should have been done at the factory. But they didn’t, and I’ll get into that shortly.
- The shifter setup was janky, but justified in the video as being adequate for a temporary test. Shimano doesn’t make an i-spec EV to ring clamp adapter I believe, and I’m not going to shell out $60+ for a fancy one for a few rides. It is what it is and did not affect my scoring.
- Not everyone runs stock rotors, and I couldn’t find anything on SRAM’s website telling me I couldn’t use a third party rotor. The lack of compatibility is disappointing (especially when the opposite combination works) and deserves to be noted for the researching consumer. I can either consider the rotor as part of the entire braking system or standardize the rotor between tests; I'm going to receive angry comment either way. I chose the latter, but the former seems to be more popular, so if it’s financially feasible then that’s the direction I’ll prefer to take in the future.
- People who actually make "internet clickbait" don't spend hours of their personal time replying to comments or going onto the forums to defend their opinions... 🙂
If we take a look at SRAM’s service manual, they mention “If your brake lever has too much throw, or a contact point that generally moves away from the handlebar on successive brake applications, the pad gap can be reset by performing [the massage]”. I mentioned in my review that I experienced a non-distracting amount of lever pump, something I would have chosen to just keep running. Nowhere in this block of text says anything about dead-stroke lever force, so it surely didn’t apply to my situation... right? I took an educated gamble that this would not affect my review...
...and I was right. Turns out I lied, and I had left the brakes on my bike for a few more days just in case someone had the miracle solution. I performed the complete "Disc Brake Piston Massage" process from the troubleshooting portion of the Maven's manual. I performed this process twice, then bled the front brake per the manual, then performed the massage twice more. I set up the science experiment again and took a measurement before and after each of the 4 individual massages. The result was a 780g measurement every single time. I even performed the test with the wheel off and the pads out of the caliper and the result was still 780g. After all of this work, the lever felt nearly identical in terms of dead stroke force and maybe 5% better in terms of dead stroke throw. We can debate endlessly over whether or not I should have gone through this step before uploading this video, but it is clear to me that this process has not solved my criticism of a fatiguing lever design. They'll be coming off for real this weekend, haha.
Should I have followed every step to the letter when installing them? Probably yes, and I’ll make more effort to do so in the future. Did I make an educated gamble that the massage would not affect the specific issue I was focused on? Also yes. But it paid off, and I stand behind everything I said in the video.
There’s a non-zero chance that I have a lemon, or there’s some batch variation at play, but since my experience isn’t unique and it is largely in-line with my previous SRAM experiences, no alarm bells went off in my head. If your experience has been different than mine it doesn't invalidate either of them. I take testing and reviewing products very seriously and feel like my experience was representative of what a consumer would have, and not someone who has connections in the industry. I appreciate feedback or questions about my testing methodology, as it will lead to better reviews in the future, but I don't appreciate 4-5 of you brigading my comment section without all of the facts. I'd love to keep tinkering and troubleshooting, but at the end of the day I'm not paid to do this, I do this for fun, and I feel like I've done enough diligence to move onto the next shiny thing. If I turn out to be the sole outlier in a few months time then I’d be happy to revisit the Mavens with a different set in the future.
I will counter your video with...
Majority of enduro riders in the USA are moving to ebikes because they are overweight and out of shape. Those...
I will counter your video with...
Majority of enduro riders in the USA are moving to ebikes because they are overweight and out of shape. Those riders also probably have a moto background. So firm brakes on a bike aren't big deal compared to riding moto. They are also trying to stop a 50 pound bike and 200 - 240 pounds man.
SRAM made an ebike brake and sold it as a DH brake. No one rides DH...
SRAM doesn't make parts for the guy who rides 100 days or 200 days a year. They make parts for the guy who rides. 2 hours a Saturday 2 times a month.
Most guys I know on e bikes are either 50+ or in shape bike riders who use it as a training or trailbuilding tool.
I just want to know how soon it is before we see a Magura lever to Maven caliper (Magaven) or vice versa since they are now both mineral oil? Would a Maven lever to a Magura lever be a Mavura? LOL.
already seen someone pairing lewis (that trickstuff copy) levers with maven calipers on IG
It begins now.
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
It makes the bars look like they've been rolled back too much like in a crash.
Was almost off-putting watching last year's WC.
Bigger pistons doesn't equal more power is kinda the answer here.
The other part is that sram is mass manufacturing these parts, so theryre designed with a lot more variance in production and therefore heavier, than much much smaller scale high end machining than trickstuff are doing.
I honestly think all the big brand brakes are excellent currently, they're just all different. TRP, Hayes, Trickstuff, Magura are all excellent products. With Shimano and sram kinda a step below that quartet, which is what you would expect for a mass manufactured product.
I would say in both cases that step should have been done by the LBS or manufacture.
The only time something like that should be able to be missed is someone orders brakes and installs them themselves.
So that'll be in most cases then.
Every mountain biker thinks they're a mechanic, engineer and designer, so they're all going to give it a go after binning the manual.
Is there even a manual in a box with the Mavens? The initial setup seems to be super critical
Didn't buy them so I'm not sure what's in the box, but SRAM has detailed instructions on their site.
https://docs.sram.com/en-US/publications/1zPBXB1BWfF7E1mLreIuVi/UM%20-%…
Not MTB, but does this new Salsa take the cake for the ugliest bike of year?
Wow, struggled to make it through that.
This is my first DS video, and seems like internet clickbait to me.
My thoughts
-Obviously SRAM doesnt want you using Shimano rotors, does this need any further explanation other than this appeared to be a prevailing attitude throughout the video.
-These arent designed for intermediate or beginner riders, full stop. Its a peak performance product, designed with heavy use gravity riders in mind. As noted by the Extreme Duty++++ designation, so lets assume that Dale at 110lbs isnt the target market
-Why wouldnt you test all the options made available, or even follow the recommendations by SRAM in the Expert kit, no sense in doing that to provide an unbiased review.
-Brakes that require high effort both help to change the way you brake (late and hard) and allow for more precise modulation of the brake than light action brakes. Again, meant as a high performance product, for those that perform at that level.
-You ever hear F! drivers talk about the effort required to brake, or Indy, stock car, etc.....
-inevitably itll find its way on to every enduro bike on the market, and be lamented for its fatigue inducing lever pull, when its meant for a market segment that is in need of something more powerful and precise.
-Can confirm the Martha Creek DH is a wild ride of non-stop good times. If youve never ridden it, put it on your bucket list!
Are you questioning why a heavily machined set of premium brakes that are more than double the price are better or different than a mass marketed/manufactured product that comes in a pretty cool kit?
Christ, if SRAM made a Trickstuff level brake (fir, finish, machining, etc) and charged as much, youd be complaining about the cost.
Why do any manufacturers even bother trying to make things....just to listen to consumers complain how theyd do it differently
The notion that it’s ok for MTB brakes to require high input forces because F1 does is pretty ridiculous.
Thanks friend. I guess it was time to make an account after all, haha. To clarify a few things:
- Yes, the title is abrasive, but I feel that I’ve justified that opinion in (too much) detail throughout the video. I’m not on YouTube to make money, considering I make less than C$4 RPM after tax. I also never pushed my resume/background in my video.
- After I connected the rear brake, I cycled the pistons to probably 50% of what was recommended in the manual to ensure they were moving smoothly, which they were. I noticed minimal difference between the front and rear feel, if anything the rear had slightly less dead stroke travel.
- The front brake was installed and immediately ridden, as is standard practice with just about every other brake I’m aware of. If the Mavens truly need an additional step that isn’t clearly indicated in the kit’s packaging, it should have been done at the factory. But they didn’t, and I’ll get into that shortly.
- The shifter setup was janky, but justified in the video as being adequate for a temporary test. Shimano doesn’t make an i-spec EV to ring clamp adapter I believe, and I’m not going to shell out $60+ for a fancy one for a few rides. It is what it is and did not affect my scoring.
- Not everyone runs stock rotors, and I couldn’t find anything on SRAM’s website telling me I couldn’t use a third party rotor. The lack of compatibility is disappointing (especially when the opposite combination works) and deserves to be noted for the researching consumer. I can either consider the rotor as part of the entire braking system or standardize the rotor between tests; I'm going to receive angry comment either way. I chose the latter, but the former seems to be more popular, so if it’s financially feasible then that’s the direction I’ll prefer to take in the future.
- People who actually make "internet clickbait" don't spend hours of their personal time replying to comments or going onto the forums to defend their opinions... 🙂
If we take a look at SRAM’s service manual, they mention “If your brake lever has too much throw, or a contact point that generally moves away from the handlebar on successive brake applications, the pad gap can be reset by performing [the massage]”. I mentioned in my review that I experienced a non-distracting amount of lever pump, something I would have chosen to just keep running. Nowhere in this block of text says anything about dead-stroke lever force, so it surely didn’t apply to my situation... right? I took an educated gamble that this would not affect my review...
...and I was right. Turns out I lied, and I had left the brakes on my bike for a few more days just in case someone had the miracle solution. I performed the complete "Disc Brake Piston Massage" process from the troubleshooting portion of the Maven's manual. I performed this process twice, then bled the front brake per the manual, then performed the massage twice more. I set up the science experiment again and took a measurement before and after each of the 4 individual massages. The result was a 780g measurement every single time. I even performed the test with the wheel off and the pads out of the caliper and the result was still 780g. After all of this work, the lever felt nearly identical in terms of dead stroke force and maybe 5% better in terms of dead stroke throw. We can debate endlessly over whether or not I should have gone through this step before uploading this video, but it is clear to me that this process has not solved my criticism of a fatiguing lever design. They'll be coming off for real this weekend, haha.
Should I have followed every step to the letter when installing them? Probably yes, and I’ll make more effort to do so in the future. Did I make an educated gamble that the massage would not affect the specific issue I was focused on? Also yes. But it paid off, and I stand behind everything I said in the video.
There’s a non-zero chance that I have a lemon, or there’s some batch variation at play, but since my experience isn’t unique and it is largely in-line with my previous SRAM experiences, no alarm bells went off in my head. If your experience has been different than mine it doesn't invalidate either of them. I take testing and reviewing products very seriously and feel like my experience was representative of what a consumer would have, and not someone who has connections in the industry. I appreciate feedback or questions about my testing methodology, as it will lead to better reviews in the future, but I don't appreciate 4-5 of you brigading my comment section without all of the facts. I'd love to keep tinkering and troubleshooting, but at the end of the day I'm not paid to do this, I do this for fun, and I feel like I've done enough diligence to move onto the next shiny thing. If I turn out to be the sole outlier in a few months time then I’d be happy to revisit the Mavens with a different set in the future.
Be kind, and see you on the trails! 🤘
according to sram claims of 50% more power than codes, the Maven won't even match the power of Direttissima, let alone Maxima
Just going to give my thoughts on the Maven lever hand fatigue topic.
I am going off topic to rant on about Hope brakes but this will make sense if you make it to the end.
For a start I have never used the Maven brakes.
I have always loved and championed Code RSC brakes and never had an issue with them, until I tried a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes. I have always liked Hope parts but previous Hope brakes have always been disappointing.
I put a pair of V4’s onto my Nomad when I built it up. The first ride on that bike I didn’t really notice the brand new Nomad I was on as the Hope V4’s were mind blowing and took a big learning curve (in a good way) to get use to them. They have such a light feeling and so much power than the Codes I have always used. They have certainly made a positive difference to my riding. They give me so much confidence on steep runs knowing that I can just stop and control my speed with very little effort.
Anyway on my trail bike I still had Code’s on that, every time I road it after using the V4’s I seemed to completely messed up and over shot corners. I kept telling myself that I didn’t need to buy another set of V4’s and I previously never had an issue with Code. Until I eventually cracked and brought another set of V4’s for the trail bike and haven’t looked back since.
Whist trying to still like the Codes on the trail bike I did try some Cascade cams. They did as advertised but even pointed out in this tread by the cascade man they can and did for me increase hand fatigue. It was at that point that I realised that not only was the power of the V4’s game changing for me but also the lightness in the lever action that made a big difference.
When the Mavens came out they did intrigued me as I have always liked SRAM brakes, but after reading a good section of reviews they all seemed to note that yes they have more power than the Codes but the lever feel was similar to the Code’s. If that is true then I would not be interested in them as it turns out a light lever feel makes a big difference to me.
For what it’s worth I like the SRAM HS2 rotors and used/use them on both the Codes and V4’s. The best I got the Code’s to feel was with Galfer green pads.
So there probably is some truth to that video review of the Mavens.
Being an engineer doesn’t automatically make someone a capable mechanic
Youve missed the point,
Its not because of F1, as thats silly, I'm just using that as an example.
The Mavens just arent for everyone, theres nothing wrong with that. I'm good with different products for different people, Im not sure why theres a belief that they should be for everyone.
They built a product to service a niche segment, and those people will like them, end of story
In fact, in my experience, it is the very opposite.
Well meaning, and well versed in theory, and how to apply principles.
Well - thank you for choosing to put your head on a swivel and edit a video when no-one asked you to. Dredging forums while wanting to champion anti-cliq-bate is kinda-sorta the exact opposite of your cause... nice.
Heart on your sleeve as it is, you edited a video. Congrats. Enjoy your Shimano Rotors.
Remi riding with a steering damper in Bellingham today with a bunch of VIPs.
I will counter your video with...
Majority of enduro riders in the USA are moving to ebikes because they are overweight and out of shape. Those riders also probably have a moto background. So firm brakes on a bike aren't big deal compared to riding moto. They are also trying to stop a 50 pound bike and 200 - 240 pounds man.
SRAM made an ebike brake and sold it as a DH brake. No one rides DH...
SRAM doesn't make parts for the guy who rides 100 days or 200 days a year. They make parts for the guy who rides. 2 hours a Saturday 2 times a month.
Looks to be the Pademelon one that's been floating around. They're starting to pop up more and more. Looks Fearon's been running them as well per their (@Pademelon.cc) IG activity.
S/O Mr. Boobar
Sorry for the delay, I missed your reply. Formula was hinting in the comments on PB ( https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-formulas-air-shock-for-enduro-bik… ) about it, and I had someone who used to work for their US distributor say that they expect the new forks this year.
Most guys I know on e bikes are either 50+ or in shape bike riders who use it as a training or trailbuilding tool.
I got to do a carpark test of mavens today, sram did kinda shit the bed with the lever effort required. But a pretty rowdy brake none the less.
I kinda look at like you're gonna giving that amount of squeeze if you're wanting to stop fast, if you're a brake dragger maybe they're not for you.
I'd happily run them on my bike i think. Pretty compatible to trickstuff, the bite point is nowhere near as crisp, but power seems to be close.
Dont know how to link posts, but this was posted a few pages back.
how's the leverforce compared to code rsc?
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