Most guys I know on e bikes are either 50+ or in shape bike riders who use it as a training or trailbuilding tool.
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Just going to give my thoughts on the Maven lever hand fatigue topic.
I am going off topic to rant on about Hope brakes but this...
Just going to give my thoughts on the Maven lever hand fatigue topic.
I am going off topic to rant on about Hope brakes but this will make sense if you make it to the end.
For a start I have never used the Maven brakes.
I have always loved and championed Code RSC brakes and never had an issue with them, until I tried a set of Hope Tech 4 V4 brakes. I have always liked Hope parts but previous Hope brakes have always been disappointing.
I put a pair of V4’s onto my Nomad when I built it up. The first ride on that bike I didn’t really notice the brand new Nomad I was on as the Hope V4’s were mind blowing and took a big learning curve (in a good way) to get use to them. They have such a light feeling and so much power than the Codes I have always used. They have certainly made a positive difference to my riding. They give me so much confidence on steep runs knowing that I can just stop and control my speed with very little effort.
Anyway on my trail bike I still had Code’s on that, every time I road it after using the V4’s I seemed to completely messed up and over shot corners. I kept telling myself that I didn’t need to buy another set of V4’s and I previously never had an issue with Code. Until I eventually cracked and brought another set of V4’s for the trail bike and haven’t looked back since.
Whist trying to still like the Codes on the trail bike I did try some Cascade cams. They did as advertised but even pointed out in this tread by the cascade man they can and did for me increase hand fatigue. It was at that point that I realised that not only was the power of the V4’s game changing for me but also the lightness in the lever action that made a big difference.
When the Mavens came out they did intrigued me as I have always liked SRAM brakes, but after reading a good section of reviews they all seemed to note that yes they have more power than the Codes but the lever feel was similar to the Code’s. If that is true then I would not be interested in them as it turns out a light lever feel makes a big difference to me.
For what it’s worth I like the SRAM HS2 rotors and used/use them on both the Codes and V4’s. The best I got the Code’s to feel was with Galfer green pads.
So there probably is some truth to that video review of the Mavens.
You know what,
That was a well written, well considered, thoughtful comment. Well done sir, we could all prolly take some pointers from it.
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Nothing wrong with that. Bikes are supposed to be fun
Have both in the garage right now. I’d say the maven has slightly more breakaway force, but requires significantly less force at the bite point for good power up until they lock the wheel quite easily.
Formula put out some preproduction DC Selvas a couple of years ago, and rumor has it they'll be released this year. Weight was in the 2.3kg...
Formula put out some preproduction DC Selvas a couple of years ago, and rumor has it they'll be released this year. Weight was in the 2.3kg range, Chris Porter from Geometron loved his.
Sorry for the delay, I missed your reply. Formula was hinting in the comments on PB ( https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-formulas-air-shock-for-enduro-bikes.html ) about it, and I had someone who used...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Sorry for the delay, I missed your reply. Formula was hinting in the comments on PB ( https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-formulas-air-shock-for-enduro-bikes.html ) about it, and I had someone who used...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
A dc Mezzer would be incredibly niche, but I’d love to have one! I’ve been holding off on upgrading my current fork- nothing with the DVO Onyx, but I would love something more precise- in the hopes that Formula or someone else will put out an enduro dc.
Sorry for the delay, I missed your reply. Formula was hinting in the comments on PB ( https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-formulas-air-shock-for-enduro-bikes.html ) about it, and I had someone who used...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado?
Like you could trip over the Boxxers for sale on PB if thats the route you wanted to go, and it could be dropped to 180mm, with a lower stack height than the ZEB (so in theory you could run more travel without negatively affecting geo). Dont get me wrong, I toyed with the idea for a Boxxer on my Spire, but the trade-offs for my use case didnt really make sense at the time.
We live in a world where long travel SC forks are so good, I cant see them dying off in favour of "in-between" DC forks. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put 6 beer (4 tall cans) that we dont see that shift in the next couple years.
Did anyone like the DC Travis? We couldnt give those things away. Pretty sure I have 2 of them in a box in storage somewhere
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Am I the only person who cannot gather up an ounce of excitement for sram maven brakes? WC DH riders were on guides before the new codes came out. The codes are sweet, saints have always been awesome, the new Hayes brakes sound pretty good too. Idk man seems like we are dissecting a product that doesn’t really need to exist.
Have both in the garage right now. I’d say the maven has slightly more breakaway force, but requires significantly less force at the bite point for...
Have both in the garage right now. I’d say the maven has slightly more breakaway force, but requires significantly less force at the bite point for good power up until they lock the wheel quite easily.
That's a very good description of them vs a code 👌
Sorry for the delay, I missed your reply. Formula was hinting in the comments on PB ( https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spotted-formulas-air-shock-for-enduro-bikes.html ) about it, and I had someone who used...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado...
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado?
Like you could trip over the Boxxers for sale on PB if thats the route you wanted to go, and it could be dropped to 180mm, with a lower stack height than the ZEB (so in theory you could run more travel without negatively affecting geo). Dont get me wrong, I toyed with the idea for a Boxxer on my Spire, but the trade-offs for my use case didnt really make sense at the time.
We live in a world where long travel SC forks are so good, I cant see them dying off in favour of "in-between" DC forks. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put 6 beer (4 tall cans) that we dont see that shift in the next couple years.
Did anyone like the DC Travis? We couldnt give those things away. Pretty sure I have 2 of them in a box in storage somewhere
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is several grams under 3kg - i know, i have one mounted on the front of my bike!). Both are 20mm axles, i like it more than the 15mm standart, but 15mm is the norm in everything except for dh-bikes. If you don’t have a hub like Hope where you could switch just the end caps, then upgrading to such a fork would require a front wheel as well (or at least a hub). As for the dc Travis - this is the fork that hooked me to Manitou like a junkie to cocaine! 🤣 I still remember that friend who lent me his Travis for a weekend more than 15yr ago with the words: “now i’m gonna make you a Manitou fan for life!” (Of course we’re talking about the last one, with the Intrinsic compression - superb performance, trouble-free). That’s why i think Manitou might do a dc-Mezzer - they had a sc Travis and a dc Travis at the same time!
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may...
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado...
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado?
Like you could trip over the Boxxers for sale on PB if thats the route you wanted to go, and it could be dropped to 180mm, with a lower stack height than the ZEB (so in theory you could run more travel without negatively affecting geo). Dont get me wrong, I toyed with the idea for a Boxxer on my Spire, but the trade-offs for my use case didnt really make sense at the time.
We live in a world where long travel SC forks are so good, I cant see them dying off in favour of "in-between" DC forks. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put 6 beer (4 tall cans) that we dont see that shift in the next couple years.
Did anyone like the DC Travis? We couldnt give those things away. Pretty sure I have 2 of them in a box in storage somewhere
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is...
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is several grams under 3kg - i know, i have one mounted on the front of my bike!). Both are 20mm axles, i like it more than the 15mm standart, but 15mm is the norm in everything except for dh-bikes. If you don’t have a hub like Hope where you could switch just the end caps, then upgrading to such a fork would require a front wheel as well (or at least a hub). As for the dc Travis - this is the fork that hooked me to Manitou like a junkie to cocaine! 🤣 I still remember that friend who lent me his Travis for a weekend more than 15yr ago with the words: “now i’m gonna make you a Manitou fan for life!” (Of course we’re talking about the last one, with the Intrinsic compression - superb performance, trouble-free). That’s why i think Manitou might do a dc-Mezzer - they had a sc Travis and a dc Travis at the same time!
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper. Think of it like you had interchangeable dropouts on your bike and you added 100mm to the rear end of your bike, that’s going to increase the leverage on the shock. The lower the amount of fluid moved for the same amount of piston movement/lever movement the more hydraulic leverage the master has. Hayes use a 9mm bore in the dominions (as far as I know) which is why they have very high hydraulic leverage with 4 x 17mm pistons. I’ve seen that it’s higher than cura 4 which has 4 x 18mm pistons. It’s actually simple maths once you know the equation. Not that it’s simple to make brakes or anything but the ratios are not complicated, provided you don’t have a variable rate linkage in there. So ipso facto the mavens probably have a largeish master and enormous pistons, so that it has a lot of fluid in the system for heat performance, and the huge pistons are required to increase the ratio. Larger piston means more seal surface area, which means more friction though, hence the wank about seals. It’s all a compromise and the best brakes make the best compromises. Cough* Hayes dominion is the best * cough
@CascadeComponents any thoughts on potentially producing an aftermarket set of cams for the Mavens? I feel like some of the complaints people have had could be tuned out on your end. I've been running your cams in my Codes for a season or so and really enjoy the advanced bite point.
Agreed on the general consensus (I think) that Dale's Maven review was partially flawed as he cut hoses and installed without bleeding originally and didn't follow instructions. I'm not suggesting that he's totally wrong in his findings, but to be taken seriously as a reviewer you can't be cutting hoses and not bleeding brakes/not following manual instructions and planning to not start out using their system rotors. Yes, end customers will do all these incorrect things, but since when have reviewers done the product review doing things wrong because 'that's how the average person will do it'??
@CascadeComponents any thoughts on potentially producing an aftermarket set of cams for the Mavens? I feel like some of the complaints people have had could be...
@CascadeComponents any thoughts on potentially producing an aftermarket set of cams for the Mavens? I feel like some of the complaints people have had could be tuned out on your end. I've been running your cams in my Codes for a season or so and really enjoy the advanced bite point.
Definitely going to take a look at them. Hard to say what all will really be possible until can see what the pad retract numbers are. There are some specific things I want to try that could work out quite well knock on wood.
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado...
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado?
Like you could trip over the Boxxers for sale on PB if thats the route you wanted to go, and it could be dropped to 180mm, with a lower stack height than the ZEB (so in theory you could run more travel without negatively affecting geo). Dont get me wrong, I toyed with the idea for a Boxxer on my Spire, but the trade-offs for my use case didnt really make sense at the time.
We live in a world where long travel SC forks are so good, I cant see them dying off in favour of "in-between" DC forks. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put 6 beer (4 tall cans) that we dont see that shift in the next couple years.
Did anyone like the DC Travis? We couldnt give those things away. Pretty sure I have 2 of them in a box in storage somewhere
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is...
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is several grams under 3kg - i know, i have one mounted on the front of my bike!). Both are 20mm axles, i like it more than the 15mm standart, but 15mm is the norm in everything except for dh-bikes. If you don’t have a hub like Hope where you could switch just the end caps, then upgrading to such a fork would require a front wheel as well (or at least a hub). As for the dc Travis - this is the fork that hooked me to Manitou like a junkie to cocaine! 🤣 I still remember that friend who lent me his Travis for a weekend more than 15yr ago with the words: “now i’m gonna make you a Manitou fan for life!” (Of course we’re talking about the last one, with the Intrinsic compression - superb performance, trouble-free). That’s why i think Manitou might do a dc-Mezzer - they had a sc Travis and a dc Travis at the same time!
Oh, it’s on! 😁 Gotta make a screenshot of it, though! In the beginning of 2026 i’m either drinking your beer and saluting you, or i’m sending you the cans and expecting a drunk happy photo! 😂
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper...
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper. Think of it like you had interchangeable dropouts on your bike and you added 100mm to the rear end of your bike, that’s going to increase the leverage on the shock. The lower the amount of fluid moved for the same amount of piston movement/lever movement the more hydraulic leverage the master has. Hayes use a 9mm bore in the dominions (as far as I know) which is why they have very high hydraulic leverage with 4 x 17mm pistons. I’ve seen that it’s higher than cura 4 which has 4 x 18mm pistons. It’s actually simple maths once you know the equation. Not that it’s simple to make brakes or anything but the ratios are not complicated, provided you don’t have a variable rate linkage in there. So ipso facto the mavens probably have a largeish master and enormous pistons, so that it has a lot of fluid in the system for heat performance, and the huge pistons are required to increase the ratio. Larger piston means more seal surface area, which means more friction though, hence the wank about seals. It’s all a compromise and the best brakes make the best compromises. Cough* Hayes dominion is the best * cough
Agreed on the cough-cough sentence! 😁 Got them and started raving about them before everybody else went berserk about them! Given i’m a known brake-dragger, i was thinking for ways to improve them (hoses, pads, brake fluid, big rotors), but then i put them through hell and they performed flawlessly, so no need for tuning.
Am i understanding correctly: if we don’t account for heat performance, durability - would Hayes have had an even higher hydraulic leverage with an 8mm bore theoretically?
Haven't seen it posted but maybe missed it, new YT Tues from Jack Moir's YouTube... well, at least the rear end of it.
Haven't seen it posted but maybe missed it, new YT Tues from Jack Moir's YouTube... well, at least the rear end of it.
It was posted earlier in the thread, after this prototype a newer one appeared with an idler peaking out of the cover suggesting they are experimenting with a high-pivot!
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material...
What i don’t understand is how Trickstuff puts so much power in the Maxima in its size and Sram needs even bigger pistons and more material (more weight) to try and match them (which is yet to be verified).
As for levers, am i the only one that finds the new Sram master cylinders/levers design bad to the eye? Being so close to the bar and in the same time longish makes the handlebar look much shorter and uglier!
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper...
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper. Think of it like you had interchangeable dropouts on your bike and you added 100mm to the rear end of your bike, that’s going to increase the leverage on the shock. The lower the amount of fluid moved for the same amount of piston movement/lever movement the more hydraulic leverage the master has. Hayes use a 9mm bore in the dominions (as far as I know) which is why they have very high hydraulic leverage with 4 x 17mm pistons. I’ve seen that it’s higher than cura 4 which has 4 x 18mm pistons. It’s actually simple maths once you know the equation. Not that it’s simple to make brakes or anything but the ratios are not complicated, provided you don’t have a variable rate linkage in there. So ipso facto the mavens probably have a largeish master and enormous pistons, so that it has a lot of fluid in the system for heat performance, and the huge pistons are required to increase the ratio. Larger piston means more seal surface area, which means more friction though, hence the wank about seals. It’s all a compromise and the best brakes make the best compromises. Cough* Hayes dominion is the best * cough
Agreed on the cough-cough sentence! 😁 Got them and started raving about them before everybody else went berserk about them! Given i’m a known brake-dragger, i...
Agreed on the cough-cough sentence! 😁 Got them and started raving about them before everybody else went berserk about them! Given i’m a known brake-dragger, i was thinking for ways to improve them (hoses, pads, brake fluid, big rotors), but then i put them through hell and they performed flawlessly, so no need for tuning.
Am i understanding correctly: if we don’t account for heat performance, durability - would Hayes have had an even higher hydraulic leverage with an 8mm bore theoretically?
My knowledge is superficial at best, but on an MTB my money would be on excessive lever throw and insufficient rollback to go that much further down that path, successfully. Probably need to go down the sram path of bigger pads with higher surface area and correspondingly higher friction (I assume, ignoring any point load considerations). Based on tidbits I’ve read from Jimmy at cascade, post mount packaging is a major limitation.
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see...
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
Yeah, technically nothing wrong with it. Just makes me sad.
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing.
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger workout on a regular bike. for an overweight guy like me who is dead by the time he makes it to the top, to the point where on the fun part ( the descend ) I’m just too rooted and things get sketchy , being able to get some assistance up the hill to then actually enjoy the downhill means I’m actually gonna do it more times and still get what would be a bloody good work out for me. enjoyment means I Keep doing it rather than give up because the uphill is just too tiring to enjoy.. . slowly I’ll be getting fitter and healthier.. In time the assistance I need can reduce.
If anything I see e-bikes as opening up more people to do exercise because they take away some of the horrible bits ( for people who don’t love the burn ) and still allows a decent workout. if skinny fit people want to ebike then great do it, have fun , get up the hill quick and enjoy the descends. They probably have other forms of exercise keeping them fit. Why feel sad.
just my opinion and I’ll proudly ride both an ebike and analogue ..
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing. :)
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger...
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing.
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger workout on a regular bike. for an overweight guy like me who is dead by the time he makes it to the top, to the point where on the fun part ( the descend ) I’m just too rooted and things get sketchy , being able to get some assistance up the hill to then actually enjoy the downhill means I’m actually gonna do it more times and still get what would be a bloody good work out for me. enjoyment means I Keep doing it rather than give up because the uphill is just too tiring to enjoy.. . slowly I’ll be getting fitter and healthier.. In time the assistance I need can reduce.
If anything I see e-bikes as opening up more people to do exercise because they take away some of the horrible bits ( for people who don’t love the burn ) and still allows a decent workout. if skinny fit people want to ebike then great do it, have fun , get up the hill quick and enjoy the descends. They probably have other forms of exercise keeping them fit. Why feel sad.
just my opinion and I’ll proudly ride both an ebike and analogue ..
I guess I should explain my sentiment. Im a personal trainer and I live in a small town. I see a lot of the same people a lot. Like I said, there are the occasional 50+ year olds who ride a lot with them which is really cool. Or the occasional bigger set guy who probably would not be out riding otherwise. But what Im seeing a lot of people my age (25 or younger) getting really lazy, buying an ebike, never breaking a sweat, and getting fatter. Yeah theyre fun. So are dirtbikes. Sure I could go faster. But I dont need one. I enjoy a climb. Makes a descent that much better.
Also, it makes me worried because of the environment. Seems like these bikes get their batteries or motors recalled on a weekly basis. But thats a whole another can of worms.
people can have them and have fun. Just makes me think we are 1 step closer to Wall-E though.
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing. :)
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger...
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing.
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger workout on a regular bike. for an overweight guy like me who is dead by the time he makes it to the top, to the point where on the fun part ( the descend ) I’m just too rooted and things get sketchy , being able to get some assistance up the hill to then actually enjoy the downhill means I’m actually gonna do it more times and still get what would be a bloody good work out for me. enjoyment means I Keep doing it rather than give up because the uphill is just too tiring to enjoy.. . slowly I’ll be getting fitter and healthier.. In time the assistance I need can reduce.
If anything I see e-bikes as opening up more people to do exercise because they take away some of the horrible bits ( for people who don’t love the burn ) and still allows a decent workout. if skinny fit people want to ebike then great do it, have fun , get up the hill quick and enjoy the descends. They probably have other forms of exercise keeping them fit. Why feel sad.
just my opinion and I’ll proudly ride both an ebike and analogue ..
I guess I should explain my sentiment. Im a personal trainer and I live in a small town. I see a lot of the same people...
I guess I should explain my sentiment. Im a personal trainer and I live in a small town. I see a lot of the same people a lot. Like I said, there are the occasional 50+ year olds who ride a lot with them which is really cool. Or the occasional bigger set guy who probably would not be out riding otherwise. But what Im seeing a lot of people my age (25 or younger) getting really lazy, buying an ebike, never breaking a sweat, and getting fatter. Yeah theyre fun. So are dirtbikes. Sure I could go faster. But I dont need one. I enjoy a climb. Makes a descent that much better.
Also, it makes me worried because of the environment. Seems like these bikes get their batteries or motors recalled on a weekly basis. But thats a whole another can of worms.
people can have them and have fun. Just makes me think we are 1 step closer to Wall-E though.
So hearing that, I'm curious why you ride mountain bikes instead of trail running or hiking? That same argument has been used to severely limit access for bicycles here in Boulder since the 90s.
So hearing that, I'm curious why you ride mountain bikes instead of trail running or hiking? That same argument has been used to severely limit access...
So hearing that, I'm curious why you ride mountain bikes instead of trail running or hiking? That same argument has been used to severely limit access for bicycles here in Boulder since the 90s.
How I link posts case it's helpful for folks:
In Northern California theyre everywhere. More than regular bikes. A majority of them are people riding them that could/should be riding a normal bike. We see the often 50+ year which is cool. But it makes me think “JFC” seeing more 20-30 year olds on them. They are most definitely not using at a training tool going stupid fast on climbs and not breaking a sweat.
You know what,
That was a well written, well considered, thoughtful comment. Well done sir, we could all prolly take some pointers from it.
Nothing wrong with that. Bikes are supposed to be fun
Have both in the garage right now. I’d say the maven has slightly more breakaway force, but requires significantly less force at the bite point for good power up until they lock the wheel quite easily.
Yeah, saw that article back then, totally forgot about it! The dc enduro fork market is a niche only MRP are enjoying till now (and may be RS as the Boxxer was lightish enough to pass onto some of the porkier enduro builds). But if more brands start making such forks, my guess is the 38mm sc forks would die off!
As stated earlier in this thread, i’d love for the sudden Manitou Mezzer’s 40% discount to be the explanation behind a next gen that has a dc-version, kinda like a modern dc Travis!
Yeah, technically nothing wrong with it. Just makes me sad.
A dc Mezzer would be incredibly niche, but I’d love to have one! I’ve been holding off on upgrading my current fork- nothing with the DVO Onyx, but I would love something more precise- in the hopes that Formula or someone else will put out an enduro dc.
Maybe I'm missing something,
The previous gen boxxer was well within weight for those that wanted a DC enduro fork wasnt it, same with a Dorado?
Like you could trip over the Boxxers for sale on PB if thats the route you wanted to go, and it could be dropped to 180mm, with a lower stack height than the ZEB (so in theory you could run more travel without negatively affecting geo). Dont get me wrong, I toyed with the idea for a Boxxer on my Spire, but the trade-offs for my use case didnt really make sense at the time.
We live in a world where long travel SC forks are so good, I cant see them dying off in favour of "in-between" DC forks. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll put 6 beer (4 tall cans) that we dont see that shift in the next couple years.
Did anyone like the DC Travis? We couldnt give those things away. Pretty sure I have 2 of them in a box in storage somewhere
Other people having fun, that doesnt affect you makes you sad?
Wait until you hear about kids riding dirtbikes.....
Are you a vampire?
Am I the only person who cannot gather up an ounce of excitement for sram maven brakes? WC DH riders were on guides before the new codes came out. The codes are sweet, saints have always been awesome, the new Hayes brakes sound pretty good too. Idk man seems like we are dissecting a product that doesn’t really need to exist.
That's a very good description of them vs a code 👌
Boxxer was 2.6ish kg, sure light enough, but a 2.3kg dc fork would be even better! The previous 36mm Dorado (not the newest 37mm one) is several grams under 3kg - i know, i have one mounted on the front of my bike!). Both are 20mm axles, i like it more than the 15mm standart, but 15mm is the norm in everything except for dh-bikes. If you don’t have a hub like Hope where you could switch just the end caps, then upgrading to such a fork would require a front wheel as well (or at least a hub). As for the dc Travis - this is the fork that hooked me to Manitou like a junkie to cocaine! 🤣 I still remember that friend who lent me his Travis for a weekend more than 15yr ago with the words: “now i’m gonna make you a Manitou fan for life!” (Of course we’re talking about the last one, with the Intrinsic compression - superb performance, trouble-free). That’s why i think Manitou might do a dc-Mezzer - they had a sc Travis and a dc Travis at the same time!
So the bet is on then?
The other part of the equation is master cylinder piston diameter. The smaller it is the more leverage it has over the pistons in the caliper. Think of it like you had interchangeable dropouts on your bike and you added 100mm to the rear end of your bike, that’s going to increase the leverage on the shock. The lower the amount of fluid moved for the same amount of piston movement/lever movement the more hydraulic leverage the master has. Hayes use a 9mm bore in the dominions (as far as I know) which is why they have very high hydraulic leverage with 4 x 17mm pistons. I’ve seen that it’s higher than cura 4 which has 4 x 18mm pistons. It’s actually simple maths once you know the equation. Not that it’s simple to make brakes or anything but the ratios are not complicated, provided you don’t have a variable rate linkage in there. So ipso facto the mavens probably have a largeish master and enormous pistons, so that it has a lot of fluid in the system for heat performance, and the huge pistons are required to increase the ratio. Larger piston means more seal surface area, which means more friction though, hence the wank about seals. It’s all a compromise and the best brakes make the best compromises. Cough* Hayes dominion is the best * cough
@CascadeComponents any thoughts on potentially producing an aftermarket set of cams for the Mavens? I feel like some of the complaints people have had could be tuned out on your end. I've been running your cams in my Codes for a season or so and really enjoy the advanced bite point.
MTB hydraulic brakes are a sensitive and complex system. I don’t think we give them enough credit for what they do, and how well they do it.
But you’re going to lose me when you admit that “probably yes” you shouldn’t have “skipped a step” during install/setup.
Agreed on the general consensus (I think) that Dale's Maven review was partially flawed as he cut hoses and installed without bleeding originally and didn't follow instructions. I'm not suggesting that he's totally wrong in his findings, but to be taken seriously as a reviewer you can't be cutting hoses and not bleeding brakes/not following manual instructions and planning to not start out using their system rotors. Yes, end customers will do all these incorrect things, but since when have reviewers done the product review doing things wrong because 'that's how the average person will do it'??
Definitely going to take a look at them. Hard to say what all will really be possible until can see what the pad retract numbers are. There are some specific things I want to try that could work out quite well knock on wood.
are they having fun riding them, mr sour puss?
Oh, it’s on! 😁 Gotta make a screenshot of it, though! In the beginning of 2026 i’m either drinking your beer and saluting you, or i’m sending you the cans and expecting a drunk happy photo! 😂
Haven't seen it posted but maybe missed it, new YT Tues from Jack Moir's YouTube... well, at least the rear end of it.
Agreed on the cough-cough sentence! 😁 Got them and started raving about them before everybody else went berserk about them! Given i’m a known brake-dragger, i was thinking for ways to improve them (hoses, pads, brake fluid, big rotors), but then i put them through hell and they performed flawlessly, so no need for tuning.
Am i understanding correctly: if we don’t account for heat performance, durability - would Hayes have had an even higher hydraulic leverage with an 8mm bore theoretically?
It was posted earlier in the thread, after this prototype a newer one appeared with an idler peaking out of the cover suggesting they are experimenting with a high-pivot!
My knowledge is superficial at best, but on an MTB my money would be on excessive lever throw and insufficient rollback to go that much further down that path, successfully. Probably need to go down the sram path of bigger pads with higher surface area and correspondingly higher friction (I assume, ignoring any point load considerations). Based on tidbits I’ve read from Jimmy at cascade, post mount packaging is a major limitation.
Could be worse. They could be doing nothing.
I don’t get the whole e-bikes are bad sentiment. Sure I agree, you will get a bigger workout on a regular bike. for an overweight guy like me who is dead by the time he makes it to the top, to the point where on the fun part ( the descend ) I’m just too rooted and things get sketchy , being able to get some assistance up the hill to then actually enjoy the downhill means I’m actually gonna do it more times and still get what would be a bloody good work out for me. enjoyment means I Keep doing it rather than give up because the uphill is just too tiring to enjoy.. . slowly I’ll be getting fitter and healthier.. In time the assistance I need can reduce.
If anything I see e-bikes as opening up more people to do exercise because they take away some of the horrible bits ( for people who don’t love the burn ) and still allows a decent workout. if skinny fit people want to ebike then great do it, have fun , get up the hill quick and enjoy the descends. They probably have other forms of exercise keeping them fit. Why feel sad.
just my opinion and I’ll proudly ride both an ebike and analogue ..
I guess I should explain my sentiment. Im a personal trainer and I live in a small town. I see a lot of the same people a lot. Like I said, there are the occasional 50+ year olds who ride a lot with them which is really cool. Or the occasional bigger set guy who probably would not be out riding otherwise. But what Im seeing a lot of people my age (25 or younger) getting really lazy, buying an ebike, never breaking a sweat, and getting fatter. Yeah theyre fun. So are dirtbikes. Sure I could go faster. But I dont need one. I enjoy a climb. Makes a descent that much better.
Also, it makes me worried because of the environment. Seems like these bikes get their batteries or motors recalled on a weekly basis. But thats a whole another can of worms.
people can have them and have fun. Just makes me think we are 1 step closer to Wall-E though.
So hearing that, I'm curious why you ride mountain bikes instead of trail running or hiking? That same argument has been used to severely limit access for bicycles here in Boulder since the 90s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddWC_aAK7hk
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