More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask...
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo...
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the "regular" Levo and Kenevo some time soon. But like I said, I didn't inquire any further.
Personally I'm much more excited about the upcoming new Status anyways. Although my guy at Specialized was strangely tight lipped on that topic and wouldn't tell me any details or when exactly it will launch. He would only confirm that it does indeed exist and suggested that development is apparently finished already. To me that sounds like their dealers are still sitting on a pile of left-over stock which they'll have give them a chance to sell first before launching anything new and effectively killing the interest in old models.
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would...
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Well, are least the model's name would check out...
Although turning that legendary freeride/dirt jumping bike line into mopeds would certainly be a shame.
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would...
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and...
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
They will release the new AF’s in the next week or two at most. I haz seen the email.
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would...
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and...
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
That unreleased model must be something else entirely.
I've seen pictures of the new Voltage including geometry table and spec sheet and it's definitley a mid-travel e-bike. 155mm of rear travel to be precise - which sucks. A return to freeride glory would have been much cooler.
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask...
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo...
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the...
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the "regular" Levo and Kenevo some time soon. But like I said, I didn't inquire any further.
Personally I'm much more excited about the upcoming new Status anyways. Although my guy at Specialized was strangely tight lipped on that topic and wouldn't tell me any details or when exactly it will launch. He would only confirm that it does indeed exist and suggested that development is apparently finished already. To me that sounds like their dealers are still sitting on a pile of left-over stock which they'll have give them a chance to sell first before launching anything new and effectively killing the interest in old models.
RE: Creo - why should there be another Creo since it just released before end of 2023? New Gen.2 motor from Levo SL on a single all road platform with room for 52mm tires down to 38.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask...
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo...
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the...
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the "regular" Levo and Kenevo some time soon. But like I said, I didn't inquire any further.
Personally I'm much more excited about the upcoming new Status anyways. Although my guy at Specialized was strangely tight lipped on that topic and wouldn't tell me any details or when exactly it will launch. He would only confirm that it does indeed exist and suggested that development is apparently finished already. To me that sounds like their dealers are still sitting on a pile of left-over stock which they'll have give them a chance to sell first before launching anything new and effectively killing the interest in old models.
Kenevo received an update to it’s front triangle and motor around the time the new Levo came out, so I could see them both being updated in the next 6 months - year. A new Status would be cool. I believe they do have a lot of inventory to go through before any new models are released.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo...
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the...
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the "regular" Levo and Kenevo some time soon. But like I said, I didn't inquire any further.
Personally I'm much more excited about the upcoming new Status anyways. Although my guy at Specialized was strangely tight lipped on that topic and wouldn't tell me any details or when exactly it will launch. He would only confirm that it does indeed exist and suggested that development is apparently finished already. To me that sounds like their dealers are still sitting on a pile of left-over stock which they'll have give them a chance to sell first before launching anything new and effectively killing the interest in old models.
RE: Creo - why should there be another Creo since it just released before end of 2023? New Gen.2 motor from Levo SL on a single...
RE: Creo - why should there be another Creo since it just released before end of 2023? New Gen.2 motor from Levo SL on a single all road platform with room for 52mm tires down to 38.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom...
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an...
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully...
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Many bikes have 10 degrees or more of pedal kick. I believe Neko made his 12 degrees which is max the Ochain can handle. There’s pros and cons to idler and ochain.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Norco is bringing a lot of engineering firepower into the design of their new DH rig. There’s a ton of adjustability built in, and that level of maintenance is common, if not expected, at the World Cup level. If this bike sees commercial release, it’ll likely be dumbed down for the average consumer with limited adjustment.
Neko is a smart guy, but he’s not an engineer. He’s intentionally built his bike to be simple and behave the way he likes.
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you...
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Let's just call Greg's interview what it was - all sales /hype - whereas Neko has pretty much shown he isn't trying to bullshit anyone. Reminds me of when Syndicate went from SRAM/RockShox to Fox - "oh it's the best thing out there!" Steve... Didn't you just say like last week how incredible your suspension was performing?
I'm less of an engineer than Neko, but from listening to many interviews from both him and Greg, it sure seems like the thought process behind the Frameworks design is to prioritize reliability, confidence, and durability. Remember that Frameworks was definitely a semi-privateer venture last year, while Norco has actively recruited top engineers with a budget far greater that Neko's checkbook!
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a lot of the stuff the Norco proto has in it will be incredibly tight for tolerances (like the eccentric machined BB area, the front shock mount, etc.). Neko was having issues with just getting the swingarm to align well with the main triangle, which is why he went to carbon. Every one of those adjustment features built into the frame adds a lot of complexity and demand for strict tolerance. And besides this being an issue with durability, alignment issues can cause real issues with suspension performance.
I've got a bike by a big name with lots of adjustment built into it, and honestly, I'd rather they spent the time getting tighter tolerances. The angle adjust headset cups are really picky about preload and being packed with grease otherwise they creak. The rear end loves to move the linkage bearings, I'm speculating due to a tiny bit of misalignment between the rear and front. But it's nothing obvious enough that I'd be able to win any warranty claim.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust...
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits...
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
Neko is building the Frameworks brand to sell bikes. Profits and marketing are very much a factor.
They've been doing that for many years. Sell on features etc and not on bike performance
Wasn't the Levo last updated like 3 years ago? And the Kenevo is even older iirc. Seems highly likely to me that they would update the "regular" Levo and Kenevo some time soon. But like I said, I didn't inquire any further.
Personally I'm much more excited about the upcoming new Status anyways. Although my guy at Specialized was strangely tight lipped on that topic and wouldn't tell me any details or when exactly it will launch. He would only confirm that it does indeed exist and suggested that development is apparently finished already. To me that sounds like their dealers are still sitting on a pile of left-over stock which they'll have give them a chance to sell first before launching anything new and effectively killing the interest in old models.
Dunno man, look at the Oso, hardly "conservative"...
I'd buy a V3 Ripmo tomorrow if they released it, my OG Ripmo has served me well and is still going strong. I have someone in mind who loves bikes but cant afford much who would benefit from having a nice bike.
Someone mentioned March somehwhere on this forum. Have zero interest in an E-Mo.
If this unpublished unreleased thing I saw at scott HQ is the new voltage, fuck me backwards! there is absolutely no reason to buy a ransom anymore! Things thing looks a beast!!! Yes it does have a motor but nevermind.
Well, are least the model's name would check out...
Although turning that legendary freeride/dirt jumping bike line into mopeds would certainly be a shame.
They will release the new AF’s in the next week or two at most. I haz seen the email.
What model though? A new Ripmo or the HD6?
HD6 AF would be sick!
That unreleased model must be something else entirely.
I've seen pictures of the new Voltage including geometry table and spec sheet and it's definitley a mid-travel e-bike. 155mm of rear travel to be precise - which sucks. A return to freeride glory would have been much cooler.
RE: Creo - why should there be another Creo since it just released before end of 2023? New Gen.2 motor from Levo SL on a single all road platform with room for 52mm tires down to 38.
Only been a Few photos of that new YT Tues prototype kicking around but that rear triangle does look redesigned and kinda looks more on an angle and got me thinking... Is there a sneaky mid/high pivot lurking under there? Could a similiar front triangle look be staying as it still fits within the architecture of all their other bikes just with a Modified back end more or less.
I made some lines to demonstrate my thoughts... Don't judge my art haha.
Ripley and Ripmo AF. Haven’t heard anything about a HD6 AF. Would be rad tho!
Kenevo received an update to it’s front triangle and motor around the time the new Levo came out, so I could see them both being updated in the next 6 months - year. A new Status would be cool. I believe they do have a lot of inventory to go through before any new models are released.
Didn’t know it had been released. My bad!
Perhaps... but at least on this one, no idler and the linkage is visible under there.
Well that's no fun... They could ditch the O-chain if they go with my idea haha
SC Heckler and Bullitt would like word about that…
Wasn’t the Frameworks of Neko Mullaly using an O-chain cause it’s something of a mid high-pivot, but without an idler? The covered Tues proto looks awfully similar to the current one, only significant change i could think of watching the photos is going the Frameworks’ route!
Many bikes have 10 degrees or more of pedal kick. I believe Neko made his 12 degrees which is max the Ochain can handle. There’s pros and cons to idler and ochain.
It’s curious how Greg (Norco, really) and Neko are saying completely different things. Neko spends two years developing a race bike and concludes you can’t adjust anything independently, every change will affect something else. And complexity breeds its own challenges with marginal performance improvement.
Norco heads in the exact opposite direction, highly complex suspension with claims of independent adjustability. Making those changes in isolation would be so time consuming. To slacken the head angle and keep bb height the same you’ve have to switch out flip chips for both. Changing HA alters your front center, unless you move the BB - which would then change the rear center. According to Neko, any COG changes affect suspension and if you can’t trust Neko, who can you trust?
on a personal level, bikes already require so much maintenance I can’t see buying something complicated for a marginal performance benefit I’m not talented enough to reap. As it stands my bikes need a couple full tear downs and rebuilds a year, which is like a half day job that would cost me $500 to have a shop do it all. Heaven forbid you’ve got headset routing.or more than 4 pivots.
Loosedog teasing a new build. Double crown seems a bit overkill for a regular 4060LT, so might be a bigger rig to be revealed from Scor?
Norco is bringing a lot of engineering firepower into the design of their new DH rig. There’s a ton of adjustability built in, and that level of maintenance is common, if not expected, at the World Cup level. If this bike sees commercial release, it’ll likely be dumbed down for the average consumer with limited adjustment.
Neko is a smart guy, but he’s not an engineer. He’s intentionally built his bike to be simple and behave the way he likes.
Do you know any engineer that has podiumed at a World Cup? Not sure a degree is better than tires in the trenches
Cesar Rojo?
Fabien Barel
Let's just call Greg's interview what it was - all sales /hype - whereas Neko has pretty much shown he isn't trying to bullshit anyone. Reminds me of when Syndicate went from SRAM/RockShox to Fox - "oh it's the best thing out there!" Steve... Didn't you just say like last week how incredible your suspension was performing?
I'm less of an engineer than Neko, but from listening to many interviews from both him and Greg, it sure seems like the thought process behind the Frameworks design is to prioritize reliability, confidence, and durability. Remember that Frameworks was definitely a semi-privateer venture last year, while Norco has actively recruited top engineers with a budget far greater that Neko's checkbook!
Neko also has been very concerned about being able to manufacture these frames on a small scale while still hitting the required tolerances. I think a lot of the stuff the Norco proto has in it will be incredibly tight for tolerances (like the eccentric machined BB area, the front shock mount, etc.). Neko was having issues with just getting the swingarm to align well with the main triangle, which is why he went to carbon. Every one of those adjustment features built into the frame adds a lot of complexity and demand for strict tolerance. And besides this being an issue with durability, alignment issues can cause real issues with suspension performance.
I've got a bike by a big name with lots of adjustment built into it, and honestly, I'd rather they spent the time getting tighter tolerances. The angle adjust headset cups are really picky about preload and being packed with grease otherwise they creak. The rear end loves to move the linkage bearings, I'm speculating due to a tiny bit of misalignment between the rear and front. But it's nothing obvious enough that I'd be able to win any warranty claim.
Yes but as I recall one of Neko's primary motivators was that he wasn't constrained by the same things a normal manufacture usually is like profits, marketing, legacy technology, etc etc, and could focus solely on making the best performing bike possible. Norco seems to be in a position to take a similar approach as Neko's, just with considerably more resources, and experience. Their layout is complicated, but it seems to me that being able to isolate and alter each characteristic as independently as possible, will lead to bikes will becoming more refined and reliable in the future.
Neko is building the Frameworks brand to sell bikes. Profits and marketing are very much a factor.
Neko's flip chips are named "Frank The Welder"
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation