Can we please NOT have another nerd-fight about suspension layout names...?
But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.
I can't tell how the "chainstay pivot" and dropout is attached, im presuming the dropout is bolted to the chainstay, so it can't be an inverted horst then (i think?)
But more importantly there are 1 or 2 links denominated "18" and "22" in the graphic so its got too many links to be inverted horst.
All i know is that i won't be buying it, because CBF the servicing time, or cost of that many bearings and links.
But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.
I can't tell how the...
But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.
I can't tell how the "chainstay pivot" and dropout is attached, im presuming the dropout is bolted to the chainstay, so it can't be an inverted horst then (i think?)
But more importantly there are 1 or 2 links denominated "18" and "22" in the graphic so its got too many links to be inverted horst.
All i know is that i won't be buying it, because CBF the servicing time, or cost of that many bearings and links.
I’m not going to get into a nerd fight on what design this is called.
From what I’ve seen from pictures and video of the prototype bike they’ve been racing, this is just a more refined version of it. They built off the Range design. The Range has a huge bottom bracket rocker that gets pulled on by the chainstay to compress the shock. They’ve effectively eliminated it pivoting around the bottom bracket and made a short link (18) that moves and compresses the upper shock link. (20)
Range blueprint for comparison;
I have a Range. Man does it have a lot of bearings. Weighs as much as a tank because of it. This new frame is going to be high maintenance…
Lots of things to take away here. The way they’ve been talking how the new prototype can be adjusted one way without affecting something else. Changing...
Lots of things to take away here. The way they’ve been talking how the new prototype can be adjusted one way without affecting something else. Changing bottom bracket height and shock rate etc. That adjustable bottom bracket area is surely a part of it.
Forgive my terrible illustration, but more or less this. I’m guessing in making that lower link much smaller than on the Range they had to get...
Forgive my terrible illustration, but more or less this. I’m guessing in making that lower link much smaller than on the Range they had to get creative to make leverage curve work out and ended up with the linkage driven solution that then had the benefit of more miscellaneous adjustments to play with.
This terrible drawing puts it in line form. Kind of like the Range except the lower link pushes a different link as opposed to directly pushing the shock.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
Based on its orientation that will change the effective shock length, which affects BB height and where in the leverage curve the suspension operates. I'm sure the suspension setup has a lot of adjustment elsewhere, though.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the...
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
The linkage itself is VERY sensitive to adjustments. They could be using a set of different upper links with a few different progression ranges. Alternatively they might have some chip inserts for that same link. I say that link specifically because the point where the dogbone connects has a big influence on the progression AND you can't see the side of it anywhere because it's hidden by the seatmast. FWIW on a factory team I would just have separate links rather than messing about with chips.
You can see an example of moving that point on the link below highlighted in grey. The two curves show an offset of 1mm forward and a little bit down. By move the point along the radial path of the dogbone there is zero impact on the geo. They get huge props for the tunability of that linkage; I can't think of a more adjustable HP layout (the Specialized bikes notably also have pretty customizable layouts). The below shows a 35% to 38% progression with that 1mm change but I am pretty confident the race bike is nowhere near that progressive.
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
I'm waiting for the limited edition rose gold version.
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
I hate to say this but in 10 years this will be Rockshox with Shockwiz
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping...
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
1st gen uses a proprietary valve and shock pump. Rebound/compression damping is closed all the way once 2nd gen comes out.
Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube...
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
One of my best mates works at a specialized dealer and half the time the bearings are absolutely toast and performance suffers because they can't be bothered doing it themselves (i.e owners) and its so expensive in shop to get the replaced when needed (particularly if you ride somewhere wet)
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask...
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
It looks like a linkage driven inverted Horst to me
And it looks like a squishy boing-boing to me...
Can we please NOT have another nerd-fight about suspension layout names...?
But this is tech rumors, speculating on suspension linkage is like half the fun? We're doing it politely this time anyway.
I can't tell how the "chainstay pivot" and dropout is attached, im presuming the dropout is bolted to the chainstay, so it can't be an inverted horst then (i think?)
But more importantly there are 1 or 2 links denominated "18" and "22" in the graphic so its got too many links to be inverted horst.
All i know is that i won't be buying it, because CBF the servicing time, or cost of that many bearings and links.
I’m not going to get into a nerd fight on what design this is called.
From what I’ve seen from pictures and video of the prototype bike they’ve been racing, this is just a more refined version of it. They built off the Range design. The Range has a huge bottom bracket rocker that gets pulled on by the chainstay to compress the shock. They’ve effectively eliminated it pivoting around the bottom bracket and made a short link (18) that moves and compresses the upper shock link. (20)
Range blueprint for comparison;
I have a Range. Man does it have a lot of bearings. Weighs as much as a tank because of it. This new frame is going to be high maintenance…
It's totally not a six-bar though.
It's an inverted horst-link four-bar with a bunch of added linkage to decouple the shock rate from the axle path, anti-squat and anti-rise.
I'm really trying to wrap my head around the linkage, can somebody smart explain how the linkage is driving the shock?
This terrible drawing puts it in line form. Kind of like the Range except the lower link pushes a different link as opposed to directly pushing the shock.
Norco's whole schtick in marketing materials and in their patent application is that this unique design allows them to alter the rate of progression of the leverage rate without affecting other suspension parameters. That sounds really cool, but I've looked at every photo in the PB patent article and I don't see any means in their patent for adjusting leverage rate. No flip chips, or adjustable shock mounts, or sliding mounting points, or anything.
Does anyone know how riders on the new Norco downhill bike are supposed to adjust leverage rate? Are they just talking about swapping links entirely, a la Cascade Components links? Or is there an adjustment built into the frame that my eyes aren't seeing?
This?
Greg was saying he could alter Geo characteristics without affecting another, say can slacken HTA but not BB height, STA etc.... how the fark do you do that? Modular BB shell? I suppose STA doesn't mean a lot in DH but still, bold claim cotton.
Based on its orientation that will change the effective shock length, which affects BB height and where in the leverage curve the suspension operates. I'm sure the suspension setup has a lot of adjustment elsewhere, though.
The linkage itself is VERY sensitive to adjustments. They could be using a set of different upper links with a few different progression ranges. Alternatively they might have some chip inserts for that same link. I say that link specifically because the point where the dogbone connects has a big influence on the progression AND you can't see the side of it anywhere because it's hidden by the seatmast. FWIW on a factory team I would just have separate links rather than messing about with chips.
You can see an example of moving that point on the link below highlighted in grey. The two curves show an offset of 1mm forward and a little bit down. By move the point along the radial path of the dogbone there is zero impact on the geo. They get huge props for the tunability of that linkage; I can't think of a more adjustable HP layout (the Specialized bikes notably also have pretty customizable layouts). The below shows a 35% to 38% progression with that 1mm change but I am pretty confident the race bike is nowhere near that progressive.
Behold: a mirror
Apple is finally ready to release their new Apple Shock for MTB! It will connect to your AppleID and use GPS to automatically adjust your damping to take you to the nearest Starbucks as quickly as possible. Only question is are you getting it in grey or black??
Patiently waiting to see when the new Ibis Ripmo and Ripley will start seeing some leaks....maybe even a lightweight e-Ripmo?
I'm waiting for the limited edition rose gold version.
Moar pix from the Norco patent.
I'll wait for the Ti one 😂
I hate to say this but in 10 years this will be Rockshox with Shockwiz
1st gen uses a proprietary valve and shock pump. Rebound/compression damping is closed all the way once 2nd gen comes out.
2nd gen has no valve at all.
Geeezz, thats impressive! Did anyone see an axle path graph?
Likely will see a lightweight E-Ripmo before a the analog bikes since e-bikes are all that's selling right now.
Ibis is a conservative company. I would guess they're not pushing hard to launch new bikes with small changes into a horrible market. Could be a while before we see new stuff. But I do expect the new bikes to have the new design language which will actually be a big help for them selling units.
I take back what i said, I couldn't tell from the original patent pick posted that the seat stay is fixed solidly to the seat tube, I thought it was attached to linkage (just has the same axle running through both parts)
Cool suspension tech, I do stand by my other comment, that its an absolute nightmare to service and maintain. Like jesus christ, there is going to be a minimum of 20 bearings in that rear end (maybe some end up being bushings)
Right up there with the Enduro.
Yeah, which is a pain the ass!
One of my best mates works at a specialized dealer and half the time the bearings are absolutely toast and performance suffers because they can't be bothered doing it themselves (i.e owners) and its so expensive in shop to get the replaced when needed (particularly if you ride somewhere wet)
Guys, I got some good news and some bad news.
Good news: The Scott Voltage is back for 2024.
Bad news: It's now a boring mid-travel e-bike instead of the bona-fide freeride shred sled it used to be.
More tech rumors:
Apparently Specialized is about to revamp the majority of their e-bike line-up.
I'm honestly not terribly interested in e-bikes, so I didn't ask for any specific details or a timeline. But from what information I was told, I would infer that it will happen in 2024. Apparently even before the new Stumpy and Epic.
That’s interesting. The new Levo SL and Kenevo SL just came out, current Levo is only a few years old. I could see an updated Creo, Vado SL and the nightmarish Como SL getting updates. Full power Kenevo would be the next EMTB in line for an update.
scott is making shit bike after shit bike, not surprised
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