I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.
Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I guess a roller would be about the same size with much better contact surface between the rollers and races.
I've also seen a lot of doubled up bearings in the last few years - I mean 2 pressed in together at some pivot locations, think that wouldn't be more expensive to replace with rollers, would it? Wonder if there's some sizes that would actually fit to replace said ball bearings.
I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I...
I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.
Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I guess a roller would be about the same size with much better contact surface between the rollers and races.
I've also seen a lot of doubled up bearings in the last few years - I mean 2 pressed in together at some pivot locations, think that wouldn't be more expensive to replace with rollers, would it? Wonder if there's some sizes that would actually fit to replace said ball bearings.
Back in the old good days, I was replacing the darned double-row bearings in the Mojo HD lower link every 4-6 months. That bike was devouring them, what a royal PITA.
Sometimes getting some more life out of a pivot bearing will not be worth if it means said bearing is 5 times the price and/or lasts only 50 % more or something along those lines. If it was a forever solution, sure, go ahead. But based on what I've seen, I'd bet that the best option for a forever bearing is sealing it in and not counting on the 2RS seals to do the job (that and tolerances of the assembled parts).
Part of the sealing is also shielding from the dirt - QED, I've ran 3D printed covers on my previous and run one on my current bike to cover the gap between the frame and chainstay on the main (B
pivot location. Seems to do the job... Based on the cost of my current and previous frame (Bird) and based on how it's designed, it's crude. There's not much thought put into protecting the bearings - details like that are expensive and are lower priority items for smaller companies with smaller runs, even more so if they are aiming at a price point.
Roller bearings have a distinct negative of not having any axial load carrying capability whereas deep groove ball bearings have a ~20 to maybe 30 % axial load capacity of the radial capacity - outside a specific axial (thrust) bearing design, this is very good and thus they give a really good middle ground. An angular contact bearing is even better in that regard, but is often directional, requires care during assembly, needs to have the proper design, etc.
Dual row bearings are often also angular contact and a back-to-back design at that, meaning they are not directional. They have high load carrying capacity, are fairly compact (much more so than 2 ordinary deep groove ball bearings back to back), but are also quite heavy. And expensive too. A double row bearing is usually 4+ times the price of a similarly sized (internal and external diameter) deep groove ball bearing so twice the price of using two single row bearings. Plus it still takes up more space. With bikes it's often easier to go larger in diameter than it is in width...
Back to rumours : a major suspension player is making USD fork
Got a little more on that rumor than this? I’m curious. this may be on odd approach/take but I’ve seen and heard others say the same thing: if you live in very dusty places, the dust wipers have a better life on a USD fork since there’s not as much dust in the hub area than at the top of the crown where the tire is. And living in a place where 8 months of the year it’s like someone poured flour on the trails, I’m actually keeping that in the back of my mind for a future purchase…
Back to rumours : a major suspension player is making USD fork
The decades long cycle of USD forks being good for mtbs, only to have manufacturers completely 180 their narrative continues. Wonder if it’ll stick this time…
Sometimes getting some more life out of a pivot bearing will not be worth if it means said bearing is 5 times the price and/or lasts...
Sometimes getting some more life out of a pivot bearing will not be worth if it means said bearing is 5 times the price and/or lasts only 50 % more or something along those lines. If it was a forever solution, sure, go ahead. But based on what I've seen, I'd bet that the best option for a forever bearing is sealing it in and not counting on the 2RS seals to do the job (that and tolerances of the assembled parts).
Part of the sealing is also shielding from the dirt - QED, I've ran 3D printed covers on my previous and run one on my current bike to cover the gap between the frame and chainstay on the main (B
pivot location. Seems to do the job... Based on the cost of my current and previous frame (Bird) and based on how it's designed, it's crude. There's not much thought put into protecting the bearings - details like that are expensive and are lower priority items for smaller companies with smaller runs, even more so if they are aiming at a price point.
Roller bearings have a distinct negative of not having any axial load carrying capability whereas deep groove ball bearings have a ~20 to maybe 30 % axial load capacity of the radial capacity - outside a specific axial (thrust) bearing design, this is very good and thus they give a really good middle ground. An angular contact bearing is even better in that regard, but is often directional, requires care during assembly, needs to have the proper design, etc.
Dual row bearings are often also angular contact and a back-to-back design at that, meaning they are not directional. They have high load carrying capacity, are fairly compact (much more so than 2 ordinary deep groove ball bearings back to back), but are also quite heavy. And expensive too. A double row bearing is usually 4+ times the price of a similarly sized (internal and external diameter) deep groove ball bearing so twice the price of using two single row bearings. Plus it still takes up more space. With bikes it's often easier to go larger in diameter than it is in width...
Oh I don't know having to never change bearings out or chase creaks is worth quiet a bit to me. 😄
Who will it be though? I have a hard time seeing rock shox do it after it took them a while to redesign/update the boxxer. Fox did a usd fork in the early 2010's but nothing really materialized out of it except R.A.D applications. Marzocchi?
Got a little more on that rumor than this? I’m curious. this may be on odd approach/take but I’ve seen and heard others say the same thing...
Got a little more on that rumor than this? I’m curious. this may be on odd approach/take but I’ve seen and heard others say the same thing: if you live in very dusty places, the dust wipers have a better life on a USD fork since there’s not as much dust in the hub area than at the top of the crown where the tire is. And living in a place where 8 months of the year it’s like someone poured flour on the trails, I’m actually keeping that in the back of my mind for a future purchase…
I dont know that dust wipers have a longer life but the dust and mud is sitting on the wiper the same way. Gravity is working for you on a USD fork. So, I have a dorado 37 that I adore. When it comes to life, the open bath TPC cart in the damper leg looks like it could almost never be serviced. Wipers stay good, oil never gets water and dirt ingress and stays silly clean and sliders well lubed. The air spring side stays clean but the grease breaks down faster. If someone wanted a no maintenance fork, a good dual open bath coil USD fork is the way. I have thought about converting my dorado to coil for just that reason.
Who will it be though? I have a hard time seeing rock shox do it after it took them a while to redesign/update the boxxer. Fox...
Who will it be though? I have a hard time seeing rock shox do it after it took them a while to redesign/update the boxxer. Fox did a usd fork in the early 2010's but nothing really materialized out of it except R.A.D applications. Marzocchi?
Given that Marzocchi is Fox's economy brand and gets old Fox tech, I doubt it will be Marz
The rumor above also did not mention if it was a single crown or dual crown...
The highest compliment a topic can get: a stern insistence the conversation be moved out of the Tech Rumors discussion and into its own thread.I feel...
The highest compliment a topic can get: a stern insistence the conversation be moved out of the Tech Rumors discussion and into its own thread.
I feel like I just watched Bearings grow up, go to college, and get accepted to medical school.
The highest compliment a topic can get: a stern insistence the conversation be moved out of the Tech Rumors discussion and into its own thread.I feel...
The highest compliment a topic can get: a stern insistence the conversation be moved out of the Tech Rumors discussion and into its own thread.
I feel like I just watched Bearings grow up, go to college, and get accepted to medical school.
Back to rumours : a major suspension player is making USD fork
As far as I’m concerned there’s only 3 major players in MTB suspension. Rockshox just updated their entire product line and it seems to be working for them so seems unlikely. Fox might be feeling that their GripX2 launch was a bit underwhelming and could go looking for gains elsewhere - plus they’ve tried it in the past. But my money would be on Ohlins. In MTB they’re the smallest of the three, especially in OEM, so it would be the least risky. They obviously have experience from moto and after their recent financial wobbles they should be looking for a way to distinguish themselves from the other two.
Ohlins should try that as they are no strangers to USD forks from Motorsports. It would be pretty cool seeing a classic Ohlins gold USD DH40 on Bruni's rig.
Ohlins should try that as they are no strangers to USD forks from Motorsports. It would be pretty cool seeing a classic Ohlins gold USD DH40...
Ohlins should try that as they are no strangers to USD forks from Motorsports. It would be pretty cool seeing a classic Ohlins gold USD DH40 on Bruni's rig.
there was an ohlins dc proto floating about in 2015:
You’re not posting rumours.You’re just gossiping and stirring. Either post something useful and insightful or don’t bother.The “I’ve got a secret but I’m not telling anyone”...
You’re not posting rumours.
You’re just gossiping and stirring. Either post something useful and insightful or don’t bother.
The “I’ve got a secret but I’m not telling anyone” is just a bit pathetic and more than childish.
It’s fine if you can’t say anything, but if that’s the case just be a adult and shush. This thread is clogged up enough as it is.
Lets face it, every major player is working on something so we can all post that quite easily!
Brother do you know what a rumour is? If I just tell everyone what brand is developing it or which riders will be running it this season it's not a rumour it's just a statement of fact. Keeping it vague enough for people to guess and put forward some theories as to who it could be is what makes it fun.
You’re not posting rumours.You’re just gossiping and stirring. Either post something useful and insightful or don’t bother.The “I’ve got a secret but I’m not telling anyone”...
You’re not posting rumours.
You’re just gossiping and stirring. Either post something useful and insightful or don’t bother.
The “I’ve got a secret but I’m not telling anyone” is just a bit pathetic and more than childish.
It’s fine if you can’t say anything, but if that’s the case just be a adult and shush. This thread is clogged up enough as it is.
Lets face it, every major player is working on something so we can all post that quite easily!
Brother do you know what a rumour is? If I just tell everyone what brand is developing it or which riders will be running it this...
Brother do you know what a rumour is? If I just tell everyone what brand is developing it or which riders will be running it this season it's not a rumour it's just a statement of fact. Keeping it vague enough for people to guess and put forward some theories as to who it could be is what makes it fun.
Here’s a rumour:
Fox and Rockshox are both working on something new.
Bravo kiddo
Let’s state the obvious. Is this really the level that we’ve sunk to now.
Y we no roller bearings in load-carrying places?
I hope that'll come, makes a lot of sense to me where stiffness matters.
Knolly uses double row bearings in their main pivot which helps, but I guess a roller would be about the same size with much better contact surface between the rollers and races.
I've also seen a lot of doubled up bearings in the last few years - I mean 2 pressed in together at some pivot locations, think that wouldn't be more expensive to replace with rollers, would it?
Wonder if there's some sizes that would actually fit to replace said ball bearings.
Turner DHR's used them but that was like 20 years ago.
Back in the old good days, I was replacing the darned double-row bearings in the Mojo HD lower link every 4-6 months. That bike was devouring them, what a royal PITA.
Or, you know, possibly more durable for those that live in areas that are harder on bearings.
Some peoples kids man....
Sometimes getting some more life out of a pivot bearing will not be worth if it means said bearing is 5 times the price and/or lasts only 50 % more or something along those lines. If it was a forever solution, sure, go ahead. But based on what I've seen, I'd bet that the best option for a forever bearing is sealing it in and not counting on the 2RS seals to do the job (that and tolerances of the assembled parts).
Part of the sealing is also shielding from the dirt - QED, I've ran 3D printed covers on my previous and run one on my current bike to cover the gap between the frame and chainstay on the main (B
pivot location. Seems to do the job... Based on the cost of my current and previous frame (Bird) and based on how it's designed, it's crude. There's not much thought put into protecting the bearings - details like that are expensive and are lower priority items for smaller companies with smaller runs, even more so if they are aiming at a price point.
Roller bearings have a distinct negative of not having any axial load carrying capability whereas deep groove ball bearings have a ~20 to maybe 30 % axial load capacity of the radial capacity - outside a specific axial (thrust) bearing design, this is very good and thus they give a really good middle ground. An angular contact bearing is even better in that regard, but is often directional, requires care during assembly, needs to have the proper design, etc.
Dual row bearings are often also angular contact and a back-to-back design at that, meaning they are not directional. They have high load carrying capacity, are fairly compact (much more so than 2 ordinary deep groove ball bearings back to back), but are also quite heavy. And expensive too. A double row bearing is usually 4+ times the price of a similarly sized (internal and external diameter) deep groove ball bearing so twice the price of using two single row bearings. Plus it still takes up more space. With bikes it's often easier to go larger in diameter than it is in width...
Back to rumours : a major suspension player is making USD fork
Got a little more on that rumor than this? I’m curious.
this may be on odd approach/take but I’ve seen and heard others say the same thing: if you live in very dusty places, the dust wipers have a better life on a USD fork since there’s not as much dust in the hub area than at the top of the crown where the tire is. And living in a place where 8 months of the year it’s like someone poured flour on the trails, I’m actually keeping that in the back of my mind for a future purchase…
The decades long cycle of USD forks being good for mtbs, only to have manufacturers completely 180 their narrative continues. Wonder if it’ll stick this time…
Oh I don't know having to never change bearings out or chase creaks is worth quiet a bit to me. 😄
Who will it be though? I have a hard time seeing rock shox do it after it took them a while to redesign/update the boxxer. Fox did a usd fork in the early 2010's but nothing really materialized out of it except R.A.D applications. Marzocchi?
I dont know that dust wipers have a longer life but the dust and mud is sitting on the wiper the same way. Gravity is working for you on a USD fork. So, I have a dorado 37 that I adore. When it comes to life, the open bath TPC cart in the damper leg looks like it could almost never be serviced. Wipers stay good, oil never gets water and dirt ingress and stays silly clean and sliders well lubed. The air spring side stays clean but the grease breaks down faster. If someone wanted a no maintenance fork, a good dual open bath coil USD fork is the way. I have thought about converting my dorado to coil for just that reason.
Given that Marzocchi is Fox's economy brand and gets old Fox tech, I doubt it will be Marz
The rumor above also did not mention if it was a single crown or dual crown...
discuss bearings here please - https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/bearing-thread
The highest compliment a topic can get: a stern insistence the conversation be moved out of the Tech Rumors discussion and into its own thread.
I feel like I just watched Bearings grow up, go to college, and get accepted to medical school.
You'll do great, kid! We're proud of ya'!
EXT is working on one. They acknowledged it in the comment section of a post on their new dual crown USD.
Not sure if they're big enough to be considered a major suspension player.
Cane Creek? They built a USD for gravel so would have experience to move to mtb. Although not sure they qualify as a major sus player.
(Not a professional obviously)
The dream is that one day all discussion in this thread will be de facto banned due to virtually every bike-related topic being relegated elsewhere.
As a lifelong punk rock guy, thank you for that. I giggled enough that my wife asked about it.
As far as I’m concerned there’s only 3 major players in MTB suspension. Rockshox just updated their entire product line and it seems to be working for them so seems unlikely. Fox might be feeling that their GripX2 launch was a bit underwhelming and could go looking for gains elsewhere - plus they’ve tried it in the past. But my money would be on Ohlins. In MTB they’re the smallest of the three, especially in OEM, so it would be the least risky. They obviously have experience from moto and after their recent financial wobbles they should be looking for a way to distinguish themselves from the other two.
To answer some of you : it's a dual crown, and it's not EXT or anyone else who currently makes a USD fork.
Ohlins should try that as they are no strangers to USD forks from Motorsports. It would be pretty cool seeing a classic Ohlins gold USD DH40 on Bruni's rig.
DVO? They don't make an USD fork, but they started off with one...
there was an ohlins dc proto floating about in 2015:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ews-prototypes-ohlins-downhill-forks.html
and the fox dc from a couple years earlier:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/fox-dh-fork-inverted-prototype-2012.html
You’re not posting rumours.
You’re just gossiping and stirring. Either post something useful and insightful or don’t bother.
The “I’ve got a secret but I’m not telling anyone” is just a bit pathetic and more than childish.
It’s fine if you can’t say anything, but if that’s the case just be a adult and shush. This thread is clogged up enough as it is.
Lets face it, every major player is working on something so we can all post that quite easily!
Brother do you know what a rumour is? If I just tell everyone what brand is developing it or which riders will be running it this season it's not a rumour it's just a statement of fact. Keeping it vague enough for people to guess and put forward some theories as to who it could be is what makes it fun.
Here’s a rumour:
Fox and Rockshox are both working on something new.
Bravo kiddo
Let’s state the obvious. Is this really the level that we’ve sunk to now.
Maybe the rumor is that this new inverted fork will launch in 2025
Exactly this - not that complicated guys. You can all go back to chatting about bearings now.
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