Word on the street the full production Specialized DH vessel is ready. Apparently it's a looker.
I can't wait to see what they've done with it. That UBB link has got to be difficult to make it look good. Not that the prototype is ugly, but it's certainly an acquired taste.
File this under: Things I do not hate!I know its not holistically for altruistic reasons SRAM is coming out with standards like UDH and UBH, but...
File this under: Things I do not hate!
I know its not holistically for altruistic reasons SRAM is coming out with standards like UDH and UBH, but these standards make things so much easier to deal with from the consumer side. Bend a UDH hanger? Go into any bike shop. Want to swap between 180 and 200 rotors? Buy a different UBH. The idea of not having to deal with a frame's terrible brake post alignment, or even having to do the "post adaptor math" is a net win in my book.
Kudos for SRAM for doing this!
Looking forward to their new mineral oil brakes in the future as well! 😉
is swapping the postmount adapter when you size up a disc so much hassle? this seems even more complicated as you need to remove the rear...
is swapping the postmount adapter when you size up a disc so much hassle? this seems even more complicated as you need to remove the rear wheel just to swap out the ubh. what am i missing here?
Don't you need to remove the rear wheel anyways to swap rotors?
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.
UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues.
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience...
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience. Not to mention it's not an easily replaced part. If someone hamfists the threads on their brake posts then they could be in for an expensive repair. Just because we currently have something doesn't make it "good" and it's completely backwards compatible like UDH. I only see this new standard as a positive.
There's also the benefit of (potentially) not needing to realign calipers all the effing time for every minor brake related job.
As someone who owns a bike with a direct brake post adaptor already, I am glad to see MORE companies head that way.
I do agree with that positive is that if you strip your threads on your posts than you can easily replace them but I dont know if thats a HUGE issue but is a plus for this design.
Also neither this or UDH is backwards compatible the frames have to be designed around them.
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.
UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues.
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience...
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience. Not to mention it's not an easily replaced part. If someone hamfists the threads on their brake posts then they could be in for an expensive repair. Just because we currently have something doesn't make it "good" and it's completely backwards compatible like UDH. I only see this new standard as a positive.
There's also the benefit of (potentially) not needing to realign calipers all the effing time for every minor brake related job.
As someone who owns a bike with a direct brake post adaptor already, I am glad to see MORE companies head that way.
I do agree with that positive is that if you strip your threads on your posts than you can easily replace them but I dont know...
I do agree with that positive is that if you strip your threads on your posts than you can easily replace them but I dont know if thats a HUGE issue but is a plus for this design.
Also neither this or UDH is backwards compatible the frames have to be designed around them.
By backwards compatible I mean:
You can still use your old derailleur and brakes with UDH/UBH equipped bikes.
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this?
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example...
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this?
Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there.
I remember being told when the Druid V2 came out that Forbidden is already using this standard and that looks to be accurate.
I remember being told when the Druid V2 came out that Forbidden is already using this standard and that looks to be accurate.
The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount like this.
I'd be stoked to see a UBM, UDH is one of the best "standards" in a long time. Misaligned shitty post mounts that aren't replaceable need to die. I want to be able to replace my hanger, brake mount, BB, headset, bearings etc at any bike shop.
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example...
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this?
Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there.
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.
UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues.
Machining the two posts flat and perpendicular to the axle plus the threads is complicated.
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example...
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this?
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as...
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.
Who said they have to be different? The beauty of it being mounted concentric to the axle is that you can spin it around.
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as...
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.
Who said they have to be different? The beauty of it being mounted concentric to the axle is that you can spin it around.
I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.
Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in a way that isn't concentric with a caliper following a rotor. For example moving 426 from a seat stay where the rotor enters and exits the caliper as we all know and love, to the chain stay means the rotor enters and exits caliper in a much more vertical path and would crash into the caliper. The center of the pistons will be in the right spot because they are rotating concentric to 400 but the angle of attack for the rotor is off.
My simplistic thinking would lead me to believe the only way this truly becomes universal is if 400 is your datum and 426 is referenced against that datum to a very specific location. Any change in 426 location means a new adapter to get the caliper to sit in the right spot.
Am I off in my thinking?
Edit: the more I look at it the more I think you are right about it being concentric and not mattering where 426 is.
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.
UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues.
Machining the two posts flat and perpendicular to the axle plus the threads is complicated.
This. I once bought an Ibis with a shitty post where the bolt holes weren't perpendicular to the axle. That was my final pinkbike special. All HTs with sliding dropouts use bolt-on brake posts and they never failed me so this is two thumbs up from me.
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as...
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.
I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in...
I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.
Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in a way that isn't concentric with a caliper following a rotor. For example moving 426 from a seat stay where the rotor enters and exits the caliper as we all know and love, to the chain stay means the rotor enters and exits caliper in a much more vertical path and would crash into the caliper. The center of the pistons will be in the right spot because they are rotating concentric to 400 but the angle of attack for the rotor is off.
My simplistic thinking would lead me to believe the only way this truly becomes universal is if 400 is your datum and 426 is referenced against that datum to a very specific location. Any change in 426 location means a new adapter to get the caliper to sit in the right spot.
Am I off in my thinking?
Edit: the more I look at it the more I think you are right about it being concentric and not mattering where 426 is.
Quite a few single pivot and hardtail bikes (and Propain) have the caliper mounted between the two stays. It works perfectly fine, inserting the rotor vertically isn't an issue, there's enough space.
The problem with that position is that it is a pain in the ass getting to the caliper bolts with an allen key and you can't see through the caliper to align it properly. Having on the top is much better for servicing.
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location...
Looks to me like 424 goes through 428 and then thread into either the frame or a set of removable threads in the frame in location 426. That is how they plan to mount the front end of the mount to the bike.
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake...
Thats how I read it as well, then the mount has a pinch bolt to clamp over that big post. Everyone stating this solves "complex" brake post alignment issues, the distance/angle between 400 and 426 will be very critical.
UDH solved the issue of every bike having different and expensive hangers, we already have a universal brake mount its called posts and slotted holes on the caliper, its literally as universal as it gets you can adjust it and add spacers for different disc sizes and adjust for alignment issues.
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience...
The problem is that the current "standard" of just a couple posts in the frame leaves much to be desired in terms of accuracy and convenience. Not to mention it's not an easily replaced part. If someone hamfists the threads on their brake posts then they could be in for an expensive repair. Just because we currently have something doesn't make it "good" and it's completely backwards compatible like UDH. I only see this new standard as a positive.
There's also the benefit of (potentially) not needing to realign calipers all the effing time for every minor brake related job.
As someone who owns a bike with a direct brake post adaptor already, I am glad to see MORE companies head that way.
that point doesn't matter...marketing will find the way to make it better. 😅
That patent may be the worst written and non enforceable patent ever produced by SRAM. Also it appears to have been filed in 2021 before they got their ass kicked by Fox about their Narrow Wide "invention" that was created in the 1800's on a tractor.
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle...
No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already
Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows air to push past. Unless they reworked the shaft in the my2024 fix, a new model with a thicker shaft that doesn't deform would make more sense. I think the pictured model might be a float x2 Neo.
Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows...
Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows air to push past. Unless they reworked the shaft in the my2024 fix, a new model with a thicker shaft that doesn't deform would make more sense. I think the pictured model might be a float x2 Neo.
They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners on here can chime in.
Regardless, agreed there’s further room for improvement in the MY26.
Not according to the people who had them around here. X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they last a little longer but not a single 2024 model survived 2024 on my mates' bikes.
They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners...
They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners on here can chime in.
Regardless, agreed there’s further room for improvement in the MY26.
The new X2 has plenty of big architecture change's.
Not according to the people who had them around here. X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they...
Not according to the people who had them around here. X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they last a little longer but not a single 2024 model survived 2024 on my mates' bikes.
Not sure how it was possibly resolved every year as they didn't make any changes from 2021-2023. Those shocks were a real mess.
Everyone in my network has had no issues with MY24-25.
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the...
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle...
No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already
A direct mount (200+ mm) brake seems quite bulky plus you usually have the need to align it to some degree...
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the...
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle...
No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already
A direct mount (200+ mm) brake seems quite bulky plus you usually have the need to align it to some degree...
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere.
The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount...
The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount like this.
I'd be stoked to see a UBM, UDH is one of the best "standards" in a long time. Misaligned shitty post mounts that aren't replaceable need to die. I want to be able to replace my hanger, brake mount, BB, headset, bearings etc at any bike shop.
Good to know on the Forbidden. Hopefully they incorporate this new 'standard' into their upcoming E-Druid.
I can't wait to see what they've done with it. That UBB link has got to be difficult to make it look good. Not that the prototype is ugly, but it's certainly an acquired taste.
Don't you need to remove the rear wheel anyways to swap rotors?
I do agree with that positive is that if you strip your threads on your posts than you can easily replace them but I dont know if thats a HUGE issue but is a plus for this design.
Also neither this or UDH is backwards compatible the frames have to be designed around them.
By backwards compatible I mean:
You can still use your old derailleur and brakes with UDH/UBH equipped bikes.
Would this not limit frame designs from having a pivot between 400 and 426. Take the inverted 4 bar designs of a Forbidden Dreadnought for example. In a design like that isn't the distance between 400, and 426 going to change and not work with this?
Just read through the patent a bit, down on page five of the written portion it is stated that
"When assembled, the bracket bolt 424 extends through the second opening 422 and is screwed into a threaded opening 426 in the left seatstay 208."
It then goes on to say how 428 is an optional part that is meant to increase contact/strength between the stay and the mounting bracket.
Leaves me curious as to how strong this could be compared to a standard post mount on a carbon frame.
I remember being told when the Druid V2 came out that Forbidden is already using this standard and that looks to be accurate.
Just mount it to the chainstay if the link is on the seatstay. No issues there.
From RedBurn Design on IG
The Forbidden one is not a Sram product, it's their own design. Similar in appearance, but not the same. Lots of companies make a bolt-on mount like this.
I'd be stoked to see a UBM, UDH is one of the best "standards" in a long time. Misaligned shitty post mounts that aren't replaceable need to die. I want to be able to replace my hanger, brake mount, BB, headset, bearings etc at any bike shop.
Sort of removes the U from UBH if you need to have different configurations for seat stay mounting and chain stay mounting. As Johnathan mentioned as long as 400 and 426 stay on the same member you can still have a pivot on the seat stay.
Machining the two posts flat and perpendicular to the axle plus the threads is complicated.
Who said they have to be different? The beauty of it being mounted concentric to the axle is that you can spin it around.
I'm not an engineer so I may be wrong on this.
Yes, 400 would be concentric to the hub but moving 426 moves 408 and 410 in a way that isn't concentric with a caliper following a rotor. For example moving 426 from a seat stay where the rotor enters and exits the caliper as we all know and love, to the chain stay means the rotor enters and exits caliper in a much more vertical path and would crash into the caliper. The center of the pistons will be in the right spot because they are rotating concentric to 400 but the angle of attack for the rotor is off.
My simplistic thinking would lead me to believe the only way this truly becomes universal is if 400 is your datum and 426 is referenced against that datum to a very specific location. Any change in 426 location means a new adapter to get the caliper to sit in the right spot.
Am I off in my thinking?
Edit: the more I look at it the more I think you are right about it being concentric and not mattering where 426 is.
This. I once bought an Ibis with a shitty post where the bolt holes weren't perpendicular to the axle. That was my final pinkbike special. All HTs with sliding dropouts use bolt-on brake posts and they never failed me so this is two thumbs up from me.
Quite a few single pivot and hardtail bikes (and Propain) have the caliper mounted between the two stays. It works perfectly fine, inserting the rotor vertically isn't an issue, there's enough space.
The problem with that position is that it is a pain in the ass getting to the caliper bolts with an allen key and you can't see through the caliper to align it properly. Having on the top is much better for servicing.
that point doesn't matter...marketing will find the way to make it better. 😅
That patent may be the worst written and non enforceable patent ever produced by SRAM. Also it appears to have been filed in 2021 before they got their ass kicked by Fox about their Narrow Wide "invention" that was created in the 1800's on a tractor.
Hopefully this one doesn't let air past the main seal into the damper oil. That's all I care about for the next float x2 lol
That was resolved with the MY2024 changes.
What if the whole postmount bracket in this one is the UDH-equivalent but for braking? I.e. still making it possible to mount other brands, but the next Sram brake to be mounted directly to the axle...
No clue how that'd look like, but they did it on the other side already
Yes and no, they resolved it somewhat but the main issue is that the shaft deforms and pushes the seal out of the way, which allows air to push past. Unless they reworked the shaft in the my2024 fix, a new model with a thicker shaft that doesn't deform would make more sense. I think the pictured model might be a float x2 Neo.
They reworked the damper shafts, bearing housing and seal kits. However I’m not clear on specific changes to each of those. Maybe one of the tuners on here can chime in.
Regardless, agreed there’s further room for improvement in the MY26.
Not according to the people who had them around here.
X2 has been "resolved" pretty much every year, just to fail the same, 2024 included. Maybe they last a little longer but not a single 2024 model survived 2024 on my mates' bikes.
The new X2 has plenty of big architecture change's.
Not sure how it was possibly resolved every year as they didn't make any changes from 2021-2023. Those shocks were a real mess.
Everyone in my network has had no issues with MY24-25.
A direct mount (200+ mm) brake seems quite bulky plus you usually have the need to align it to some degree...
Agree, but I'm just a bit cautious this time around thinking they're introducing a new standard solely for the greater good of everyone's convenience without a hidden catch in there somewhere.
Good to know on the Forbidden. Hopefully they incorporate this new 'standard' into their upcoming E-Druid.
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