If you have air in the caliper, squeezing the lever might compress the bubble, pull additional air in the system upon release but prevent the bubble from growing quickly enough to push it back out before you squeeze the lever again. That would mean you would get too much oil in the system, effectively, plus the expanding bubble pushing on the pistons, giving you a short throw.
It's not in the manual, it's in their service procedure videos. The URL for that is in the manual, but IIRC the videos themselves are hosted...
It's not in the manual, it's in their service procedure videos. The URL for that is in the manual, but IIRC the videos themselves are hosted on YouTube.
I had to massage sticky pistons on two different pairs of V4 calipers in order to get them dialed. And given that they had T4 levers which had at the time just been released, I have a hard time believing they were on a dusty shelf. You say it just isn't necessary, but my initial install of both was to trust the written procedure in the manual which got me some wildly underpowered noise makers. Once I took the time to fiddle with them (per the videos and per the emailed recommendations from Hope support), I got the pistons moving smoothly and advancing equally, at which point they were some of the most powerful brakes I've ever ridden.
Maybe they're like pints of Guinness and just taste worse over here, I don't know. But I've set up two pairs of T4V4s and two pairs of Mavens and the Mavens have been dramatically easier to set up and maintain. Obviously mileage seems to vary, given the Loam Wolf video.
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for it and it is not in their current lineup on their site.
If you search for anything Hope brake related in You Tube there are 1000s of vids by everybody.
I've not known anyone to have any issues with Hope setup from new (other than the normal things that are mostly down to human error) even my most inept non mechanic mates. There is sometimes some equalisation needed to get the pistons activating evenly but thats not something on the level that Mavens require. And I wouldn't go so far to call the process "massaging".
I am no Hope fanatic either. Other than having to work on them in the shop I've not recommended them for years. I wish I never purchased Tech 3s as they were awful and only slightly better than the Guides they replaced. I've only just got Tech 4s because there are very few other options that are reliable... The issues folk have with Domninions, Mavens, Maxima (just on this thread) put me off them all. And Lewis doesn't quite have the backup in the UK yet.
Very impressed with the T4V4 so far.
My previous Code stealth were pretty good but I got fed up with the constant fiddling to get the pistons even. It was a consistent issue that warped my rotors in the Alps. They had good power and I never had any issues with heat even on big long Alpine decents (not had that from a Sram brake before), even when the pistons weren't even.
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for...
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for it and it is not in their current lineup on their site.
If you search for anything Hope brake related in You Tube there are 1000s of vids by everybody.
I've not known anyone to have any issues with Hope setup from new (other than the normal things that are mostly down to human error) even my most inept non mechanic mates. There is sometimes some equalisation needed to get the pistons activating evenly but thats not something on the level that Mavens require. And I wouldn't go so far to call the process "massaging".
I am no Hope fanatic either. Other than having to work on them in the shop I've not recommended them for years. I wish I never purchased Tech 3s as they were awful and only slightly better than the Guides they replaced. I've only just got Tech 4s because there are very few other options that are reliable... The issues folk have with Domninions, Mavens, Maxima (just on this thread) put me off them all. And Lewis doesn't quite have the backup in the UK yet.
Very impressed with the T4V4 so far.
My previous Code stealth were pretty good but I got fed up with the constant fiddling to get the pistons even. It was a consistent issue that warped my rotors in the Alps. They had good power and I never had any issues with heat even on big long Alpine decents (not had that from a Sram brake before), even when the pistons weren't even.
That's what Hope tech support recommended I try. And it worked, especially using a screwdriver to hold the pad in place to let one side advance more than the other. It's not the exact SRAM piston massage, which I haven't encountered in another brake's service procedures before, but it's as finicky and for me was as mandatory to get useful performance out of the T4V4s. My only knocks on the Hopes were a) the bleed procedure is a mess relative to Bleeding Edge and b) I don't like the lever ergonomics. But I can't argue with the performance.
That's what Hope tech support recommended I try. And it worked, especially using a screwdriver to hold the pad in place to let one side advance more than the other. It's not the exact SRAM piston massage, which I haven't encountered in another brake's service procedures before, but it's as finicky and for me was as mandatory to get useful performance out of the T4V4s. My only knocks on the Hopes were a) the bleed procedure is a mess relative to Bleeding Edge and b) I don't like the lever ergonomics. But I can't argue with the performance.
This is definitely something that all brakes benefit from at some point, especially as they get a bit older. There's a lot of dirt and grime that can accumulate on the outside of the pistons, which can make them stick in the seals. Cleaning and pushing them in and out a few times should for sure be part of the minimum brake maintenance checklist if you want optimal performance.
This is definitely something that all brakes benefit from at some point, especially as they get a bit older. There's a lot of dirt and grime...
This is definitely something that all brakes benefit from at some point, especially as they get a bit older. There's a lot of dirt and grime that can accumulate on the outside of the pistons, which can make them stick in the seals. Cleaning and pushing them in and out a few times should for sure be part of the minimum brake maintenance checklist if you want optimal performance.
Yeah, I wasn’t talking about servicing old brakes. My point was that extensive service was required on a set of brand-new brakes to get useful performance out of them, and I only brought that up in response to an assertion that SRAM was the only brake manufacturer whose brakes did not work perfectly out of the box.
All brakes, in my experience, require a certain degree of fiddling on initial setup, and the Mavens seem in the middle of that spectrum to me, based on my experience with them.
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get them working from new.
Ah the link in the manual you were talking about is in the Hose Shortening section so I didn't think you were talking about that as it just points to a section on their site, not an actual video
So it was more of a troubleshooting process you were directed to perform not an actual basic setup.
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get...
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get them working from new.
Ah the link in the manual you were talking about is in the Hose Shortening section so I didn't think you were talking about that as it just points to a section on their site, not an actual video
So it was more of a troubleshooting process you were directed to perform not an actual basic setup.
I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over here, so this is gonna be my last post on the subject.
I had to do this on two separate sets of T4V4s — two bikes, four calipers total, purchased in pairs about six months apart from each other — in order to get them working. I agree I shouldn't have had to do it, but I also definitely had to, as out-of-the-box performance was dire and fiddling with the pistons individually loosened up the seals and fully resolved the issues I had.
Similarly, SRAM doesn't mention the piston massage process as required for basic setup, they also list it as a troubleshooting procedure. And yet, it's something plenty of folks have to do before in order to get acceptable performance.
Which gets back to the original and only point I was ever trying to make: poor performance out of the box and ensuing setup fiddling is not something exclusive to SRAM or Mavens.
It's not in the manual, it's in their service procedure videos. The URL for that is in the manual, but IIRC the videos themselves are hosted...
It's not in the manual, it's in their service procedure videos. The URL for that is in the manual, but IIRC the videos themselves are hosted on YouTube.
I had to massage sticky pistons on two different pairs of V4 calipers in order to get them dialed. And given that they had T4 levers which had at the time just been released, I have a hard time believing they were on a dusty shelf. You say it just isn't necessary, but my initial install of both was to trust the written procedure in the manual which got me some wildly underpowered noise makers. Once I took the time to fiddle with them (per the videos and per the emailed recommendations from Hope support), I got the pistons moving smoothly and advancing equally, at which point they were some of the most powerful brakes I've ever ridden.
Maybe they're like pints of Guinness and just taste worse over here, I don't know. But I've set up two pairs of T4V4s and two pairs of Mavens and the Mavens have been dramatically easier to set up and maintain. Obviously mileage seems to vary, given the Loam Wolf video.
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for...
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for it and it is not in their current lineup on their site.
If you search for anything Hope brake related in You Tube there are 1000s of vids by everybody.
I've not known anyone to have any issues with Hope setup from new (other than the normal things that are mostly down to human error) even my most inept non mechanic mates. There is sometimes some equalisation needed to get the pistons activating evenly but thats not something on the level that Mavens require. And I wouldn't go so far to call the process "massaging".
I am no Hope fanatic either. Other than having to work on them in the shop I've not recommended them for years. I wish I never purchased Tech 3s as they were awful and only slightly better than the Guides they replaced. I've only just got Tech 4s because there are very few other options that are reliable... The issues folk have with Domninions, Mavens, Maxima (just on this thread) put me off them all. And Lewis doesn't quite have the backup in the UK yet.
Very impressed with the T4V4 so far.
My previous Code stealth were pretty good but I got fed up with the constant fiddling to get the pistons even. It was a consistent issue that warped my rotors in the Alps. They had good power and I never had any issues with heat even on big long Alpine decents (not had that from a Sram brake before), even when the pistons weren't even.
what issues have people on MAXIMA on this thread? i don't recall seeing any
I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over here, so this is gonna be my last post on the subject.I had to do...
I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over here, so this is gonna be my last post on the subject.
I had to do this on two separate sets of T4V4s — two bikes, four calipers total, purchased in pairs about six months apart from each other — in order to get them working. I agree I shouldn't have had to do it, but I also definitely had to, as out-of-the-box performance was dire and fiddling with the pistons individually loosened up the seals and fully resolved the issues I had.
Similarly, SRAM doesn't mention the piston massage process as required for basic setup, they also list it as a troubleshooting procedure. And yet, it's something plenty of folks have to do before in order to get acceptable performance.
Which gets back to the original and only point I was ever trying to make: poor performance out of the box and ensuing setup fiddling is not something exclusive to SRAM or Mavens.
No ones said that no other brake has issues out of the box.
But it has been repeatedly said from everybody (accross the board) that every Maven takes more steps to get it working as intended. Thats not a negative thing really. But it is a ballache. Regardless of how many times you say it ,you are an outlier in that regard with Hope. Not the norm.
And you chose to single them out for it, so i’ve just been responding that your issue is not common. Sorry you don’t like that.
@NicoZesty96 Can’t remeber exactly, but I stopped considering them at all after reading it… Not spending that much money on a brake that is not perfect. Might have been in the rumours thread. It was a good while ago.
If you have air in the caliper, squeezing the lever might compress the bubble, pull additional air in the system upon release but prevent the bubble from growing quickly enough to push it back out before you squeeze the lever again. That would mean you would get too much oil in the system, effectively, plus the expanding bubble pushing on the pistons, giving you a short throw.
I'm genuinely not trying to be argumentative here but could you post a link to that vid as there is not one in the manual for it and it is not in their current lineup on their site.
If you search for anything Hope brake related in You Tube there are 1000s of vids by everybody.
I've not known anyone to have any issues with Hope setup from new (other than the normal things that are mostly down to human error) even my most inept non mechanic mates. There is sometimes some equalisation needed to get the pistons activating evenly but thats not something on the level that Mavens require. And I wouldn't go so far to call the process "massaging".
I am no Hope fanatic either. Other than having to work on them in the shop I've not recommended them for years. I wish I never purchased Tech 3s as they were awful and only slightly better than the Guides they replaced. I've only just got Tech 4s because there are very few other options that are reliable... The issues folk have with Domninions, Mavens, Maxima (just on this thread) put me off them all. And Lewis doesn't quite have the backup in the UK yet.
Very impressed with the T4V4 so far.
My previous Code stealth were pretty good but I got fed up with the constant fiddling to get the pistons even. It was a consistent issue that warped my rotors in the Alps. They had good power and I never had any issues with heat even on big long Alpine decents (not had that from a Sram brake before), even when the pistons weren't even.
The videos are all linked from here: https://www.hopetech.com/how-to-videos/, which is the URL in the manual.
Here's "How To Align And Lube Brakes": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9renV3fxts
That's what Hope tech support recommended I try. And it worked, especially using a screwdriver to hold the pad in place to let one side advance more than the other. It's not the exact SRAM piston massage, which I haven't encountered in another brake's service procedures before, but it's as finicky and for me was as mandatory to get useful performance out of the T4V4s. My only knocks on the Hopes were a) the bleed procedure is a mess relative to Bleeding Edge and b) I don't like the lever ergonomics. But I can't argue with the performance.
This is definitely something that all brakes benefit from at some point, especially as they get a bit older. There's a lot of dirt and grime that can accumulate on the outside of the pistons, which can make them stick in the seals. Cleaning and pushing them in and out a few times should for sure be part of the minimum brake maintenance checklist if you want optimal performance.
Yeah, I wasn’t talking about servicing old brakes. My point was that extensive service was required on a set of brand-new brakes to get useful performance out of them, and I only brought that up in response to an assertion that SRAM was the only brake manufacturer whose brakes did not work perfectly out of the box.
All brakes, in my experience, require a certain degree of fiddling on initial setup, and the Mavens seem in the middle of that spectrum to me, based on my experience with them.
Oh wow, you were talking about that video. Man you had some pretty duff Hope brakes if you had to do all of that to get them working from new.
Ah the link in the manual you were talking about is in the Hose Shortening section so I didn't think you were talking about that as it just points to a section on their site, not an actual video
So it was more of a troubleshooting process you were directed to perform not an actual basic setup.
I feel like I'm saying the same things over and over here, so this is gonna be my last post on the subject.
I had to do this on two separate sets of T4V4s — two bikes, four calipers total, purchased in pairs about six months apart from each other — in order to get them working. I agree I shouldn't have had to do it, but I also definitely had to, as out-of-the-box performance was dire and fiddling with the pistons individually loosened up the seals and fully resolved the issues I had.
Similarly, SRAM doesn't mention the piston massage process as required for basic setup, they also list it as a troubleshooting procedure. And yet, it's something plenty of folks have to do before in order to get acceptable performance.
Which gets back to the original and only point I was ever trying to make: poor performance out of the box and ensuing setup fiddling is not something exclusive to SRAM or Mavens.
what issues have people on MAXIMA on this thread? i don't recall seeing any
No ones said that no other brake has issues out of the box.
But it has been repeatedly said from everybody (accross the board) that every Maven takes more steps to get it working as intended. Thats not a negative thing really. But it is a ballache.
Regardless of how many times you say it ,you are an outlier in that regard with Hope. Not the norm.
And you chose to single them out for it, so i’ve just been responding that your issue is not common. Sorry you don’t like that.
@NicoZesty96 Can’t remeber exactly, but I stopped considering them at all after reading it… Not spending that much money on a brake that is not perfect. Might have been in the rumours thread. It was a good while ago.
From what I recall, a couple reviews say the bleed is pretty faffy, especially due to the location of the bleed port on the MC.
I wouldn’t call that an issue
Especially if the system is properly made and does not require bleeding every few weeks or months like a shimano brake
I’m still torn between Kaha/V4/Maxima as I can get deals on almost all at the moment 🧐 still waiting to confirm pricing on the Trick
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