My saints are dying (RIP) they've been good but have always needed a bit of up keep. I find that all shimano brakes seem to be...
My saints are dying (RIP) they've been good but have always needed a bit of up keep. I find that all shimano brakes seem to be loosing oil and needing to be topped off during the lifetime of pads. Whats up with this design they always seem to need more oil.
I am thinking of moving to some hope v4 with 223 rotors. I had the tech 3's a long time a go and they felt goo but lacked some serious power. I am curious if I am going to regret moving over to a brake that might not have as much hit in the beginning. Any thoughts on hopes? I've heard they can be a little squeaky too.
Made the move from Shimano to Hope Tech 4 V4 on my enduro bike this year. Took a little while to adjust to the modulation on offer, but now love them. Galfer purple pads and 220mm rotors in the Alps were faultless. Back in the UK I'm on 203 rotors and the hope red pads. Come winter I will switch to sintered. The Green pads are super powerful but worried about lifespan.
There is some noise in certain situations, but totally fine and not really noticeable.
I now want to replace the Shimano brakes on my trail bike with Hope brakes.
My saints are dying (RIP) they've been good but have always needed a bit of up keep. I find that all shimano brakes seem to be...
My saints are dying (RIP) they've been good but have always needed a bit of up keep. I find that all shimano brakes seem to be loosing oil and needing to be topped off during the lifetime of pads. Whats up with this design they always seem to need more oil.
I am thinking of moving to some hope v4 with 223 rotors. I had the tech 3's a long time a go and they felt goo but lacked some serious power. I am curious if I am going to regret moving over to a brake that might not have as much hit in the beginning. Any thoughts on hopes? I've heard they can be a little squeaky too.
Made the move from Shimano to Hope Tech 4 V4 on my enduro bike this year. Took a little while to adjust to the modulation on...
Made the move from Shimano to Hope Tech 4 V4 on my enduro bike this year. Took a little while to adjust to the modulation on offer, but now love them. Galfer purple pads and 220mm rotors in the Alps were faultless. Back in the UK I'm on 203 rotors and the hope red pads. Come winter I will switch to sintered. The Green pads are super powerful but worried about lifespan.
There is some noise in certain situations, but totally fine and not really noticeable.
I now want to replace the Shimano brakes on my trail bike with Hope brakes.
I have two sets of T4V4, incredible brakes! I could not find a fault for last two years!
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.
Speaking of Hopes and Codes, has anyone ever heard of someone running Code levers on V4 calipers?
V4s have the same piston sizing as the calipers that Cascade Components sells as an upgrade for Codes. The only unknown is if the Hope and Sram hoses are compatible.
My friend has a set of old Tech 3 V4s in his spares box I might be able to pilfer the calipers from.
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.Speaking...
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.
Speaking of Hopes and Codes, has anyone ever heard of someone running Code levers on V4 calipers?
V4s have the same piston sizing as the calipers that Cascade Components sells as an upgrade for Codes. The only unknown is if the Hope and Sram hoses are compatible.
My friend has a set of old Tech 3 V4s in his spares box I might be able to pilfer the calipers from.
Never had a mushy bite point on my V4's!
You need to make sure to center the pistons properly over the rotor. If their timing is off, one bank of pistons may be contacting the rotor before the other bank, engaging only one pad, flexing the rotor to one side, which would give you that sensation. I had to center my pistons once and they were good to go, very firm bite.
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.Speaking...
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.
Speaking of Hopes and Codes, has anyone ever heard of someone running Code levers on V4 calipers?
V4s have the same piston sizing as the calipers that Cascade Components sells as an upgrade for Codes. The only unknown is if the Hope and Sram hoses are compatible.
My friend has a set of old Tech 3 V4s in his spares box I might be able to pilfer the calipers from.
The other thing to consider is pad retract. If you do larger caliper and same pad retract you get a mushier lever. Decreasing pad retract a little is how we kept the lever throw from increasing. I forget what the measurements are off the top of my head, but if you measure retract on the codes, which I believe is close to 1.75mm for both sides combined, and take 20% off that’s the number you’d want to be at. Don’t know what v4 calipers are in that regards, but that’s the question you’d want to sort out before throwing money at it.
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima. I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on...
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima.
I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on levers without engaging the brakes, reduce arm pump. if you guys want the least free stroke on the market, go with the Radic Kaha. The bleed process suggests leaving pads IN the caliper and bleeding out the free stroke. Works wonderfully!
You can do the exact same with Maxima or Hope T4v/e4. But im not so sure you would want a lever with its angle/reach with that little free stroke. Most grip force of the hands is when fingers are pulled towards the palm, and having near maximum leverage so far out from the handlebar would cause a lot of strain on your fingers. Especially when you are pointed down, pushing your body back from the bars.
All to say, there is more to BPA and Free stroke than the leverage curve. Think about the ergonomics of the lever on the bar. Trickstuff designed a package to work a certain way, Hope followed suit.
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close to the grip as a result. I'm not so picky on free stroke as long as the return spring in the lever isn't so strong that it becomes fatiguing to hold the lever in a partially activated position, but for stronger sprung brakes I'd also prefer a shorter free stroke for exactly that reason.
My questions to you are: While I get your point about lever shape playing a role, in your example of "Bleeding out" the free stroke in the Maxima or Hope, could you not just wind in the reach adjust on the lever, so that as out bleed out the free stroke the bite point moves in to match?
When "Bleeding out" the free stroke, you are basically pre-pressurizing the brake, somewhat similarly to what seems to be 1 property of that new Cascade Components add-on dial for brake reservoirs. Do you have any concerns about rupturing the rubber bladder in the reservoir, or losing heat related fluid expansion capacity, with this sort of strategy? They're made to function at more or less normal atmospheric pressures and have some give to them.
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.Speaking...
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.
Speaking of Hopes and Codes, has anyone ever heard of someone running Code levers on V4 calipers?
V4s have the same piston sizing as the calipers that Cascade Components sells as an upgrade for Codes. The only unknown is if the Hope and Sram hoses are compatible.
My friend has a set of old Tech 3 V4s in his spares box I might be able to pilfer the calipers from.
The other thing to consider is pad retract. If you do larger caliper and same pad retract you get a mushier lever. Decreasing pad retract a...
The other thing to consider is pad retract. If you do larger caliper and same pad retract you get a mushier lever. Decreasing pad retract a little is how we kept the lever throw from increasing. I forget what the measurements are off the top of my head, but if you measure retract on the codes, which I believe is close to 1.75mm for both sides combined, and take 20% off that’s the number you’d want to be at. Don’t know what v4 calipers are in that regards, but that’s the question you’d want to sort out before throwing money at it.
Interesting, I hadn’t really thought about that.
Pad rollback is controlled by the piston seals right? So you’re basically stuck with whatever Hope designed it for.
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima. I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on...
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima.
I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on levers without engaging the brakes, reduce arm pump. if you guys want the least free stroke on the market, go with the Radic Kaha. The bleed process suggests leaving pads IN the caliper and bleeding out the free stroke. Works wonderfully!
You can do the exact same with Maxima or Hope T4v/e4. But im not so sure you would want a lever with its angle/reach with that little free stroke. Most grip force of the hands is when fingers are pulled towards the palm, and having near maximum leverage so far out from the handlebar would cause a lot of strain on your fingers. Especially when you are pointed down, pushing your body back from the bars.
All to say, there is more to BPA and Free stroke than the leverage curve. Think about the ergonomics of the lever on the bar. Trickstuff designed a package to work a certain way, Hope followed suit.
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close...
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close to the grip as a result. I'm not so picky on free stroke as long as the return spring in the lever isn't so strong that it becomes fatiguing to hold the lever in a partially activated position, but for stronger sprung brakes I'd also prefer a shorter free stroke for exactly that reason.
My questions to you are: While I get your point about lever shape playing a role, in your example of "Bleeding out" the free stroke in the Maxima or Hope, could you not just wind in the reach adjust on the lever, so that as out bleed out the free stroke the bite point moves in to match?
When "Bleeding out" the free stroke, you are basically pre-pressurizing the brake, somewhat similarly to what seems to be 1 property of that new Cascade Components add-on dial for brake reservoirs. Do you have any concerns about rupturing the rubber bladder in the reservoir, or losing heat related fluid expansion capacity, with this sort of strategy? They're made to function at more or less normal atmospheric pressures and have some give to them.
Short answer, I don't think so.
Using reach adjust on the lever just changes the angle that the lever sits in reference to the lever body/bar, it does not adjust the plunger in the lever body or displace any brake fluid. The free stroke remains the same when using the reach adjust. You could in theory adjust bite point further out from the bar. The Hope's are great for this, but again, with such a powerful brake and such a long leverage, the free stroke is kind of needed. Maybe that makes sense? I'm no brake pro, just have experience on a lot of different brakes.
This is why I said if you prefer a lever closer to the bars and minimal free stroke, the Radic Kaha is absolutely your brake. I've tossed around idea of buying a set. But first wanted to try out the Direttissima as those are more on par with the Tech 4 E4 brakes. I'm not doing jump lines or DH runs anymore, i'm more of a single-track kinda guy. But i'm 6'2" and 220 lb rider weight, so I benefit from a very powerful brake, why I went with V4 Hope's after XTR, Guide and Code's. The Hope V4 are simply on another level of power compared to Codes. Have not tried the Maven. Frankly, I just don't like the way the Maven look. But to each their own.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm...
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
Do yours move towards the bar or away?
Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced under warranty and it got better but it’s still not fixed.
I met a guy who runs a shop about 2 hr away from me that swears he can get them working correctly. I might make the trek out to him and let him try.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm...
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
had it in the beginning as well, was very inconsistent with when it occured. The normal piston massage procedure wasn't enough to fix it, you need to do the more involved one listed under "trouble shooting" in the manual.
Remove the pads, use two rotors together (I used worn out 2mm Galfers), stick them between the pistons and pull the lever until the pistons touch the discs. Then pull very hard several times (like lever to the bar hard), then carefully push the pistons back in, I used a plastic tire lever. Repeat this process a few times, there was a noticeable difference in how easy you could push the pistons back when I was done.
That fixed it completely for me. Kinda dumb that a brake that is not inexpensive needs this done out of the box, but once it works its great. Wouldn't want any other brake right now from the ones I've tried so far.
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima. I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on...
BikeDoc has Maxima and Dirrettisima in stock, i just bought another set of Dirrettisima.
I like some free stroke, light lever allows me to keep fingers on levers without engaging the brakes, reduce arm pump. if you guys want the least free stroke on the market, go with the Radic Kaha. The bleed process suggests leaving pads IN the caliper and bleeding out the free stroke. Works wonderfully!
You can do the exact same with Maxima or Hope T4v/e4. But im not so sure you would want a lever with its angle/reach with that little free stroke. Most grip force of the hands is when fingers are pulled towards the palm, and having near maximum leverage so far out from the handlebar would cause a lot of strain on your fingers. Especially when you are pointed down, pushing your body back from the bars.
All to say, there is more to BPA and Free stroke than the leverage curve. Think about the ergonomics of the lever on the bar. Trickstuff designed a package to work a certain way, Hope followed suit.
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close...
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close to the grip as a result. I'm not so picky on free stroke as long as the return spring in the lever isn't so strong that it becomes fatiguing to hold the lever in a partially activated position, but for stronger sprung brakes I'd also prefer a shorter free stroke for exactly that reason.
My questions to you are: While I get your point about lever shape playing a role, in your example of "Bleeding out" the free stroke in the Maxima or Hope, could you not just wind in the reach adjust on the lever, so that as out bleed out the free stroke the bite point moves in to match?
When "Bleeding out" the free stroke, you are basically pre-pressurizing the brake, somewhat similarly to what seems to be 1 property of that new Cascade Components add-on dial for brake reservoirs. Do you have any concerns about rupturing the rubber bladder in the reservoir, or losing heat related fluid expansion capacity, with this sort of strategy? They're made to function at more or less normal atmospheric pressures and have some give to them.
Regarding grip force being highest with your fingers closest to the palm (hand basically closed), this is true but that position also sacrifices some dexterity to get the strength. You have better dexterity with your finger extended a little, roughly with your first knuckle at a 90 degree angle.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm...
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
had it in the beginning as well, was very inconsistent with when it occured. The normal piston massage procedure wasn't enough to fix it, you need...
had it in the beginning as well, was very inconsistent with when it occured. The normal piston massage procedure wasn't enough to fix it, you need to do the more involved one listed under "trouble shooting" in the manual.
Remove the pads, use two rotors together (I used worn out 2mm Galfers), stick them between the pistons and pull the lever until the pistons touch the discs. Then pull very hard several times (like lever to the bar hard), then carefully push the pistons back in, I used a plastic tire lever. Repeat this process a few times, there was a noticeable difference in how easy you could push the pistons back when I was done.
That fixed it completely for me. Kinda dumb that a brake that is not inexpensive needs this done out of the box, but once it works its great. Wouldn't want any other brake right now from the ones I've tried so far.
You know, when the Mavens first came out and all reviews were blabbing about the piston massage thing I thought that's not a great way to introduce a new brake to the world. It invites a healthy amount of insanity, with some folx who may not read the full instructions doing the job half right and getting half right results over and over, then claiming garbage and off to warranty they go. To me it seems like an assembly lubrication issue. The square seals at the pistons should get lubed with brake fluid at assembly which is what this massaging process does. What I started to wonder was if they weren't lubed intentionally, maybe Sram had caliper warranty 'leak' issues that weren't leaks, just excessive fluid used to wet the pistons and seals at assembly. Bypassing that step at assembly would nix a false positive of a caliper leak.
FWIW my T4V4 feel very different with 2.05mm Dachle HD rotors than with 1.85mm Centerlines. I swap two wheelsets often and the thicker rotors feel much closer to the on/off Shimano experience than the thinner ones.
For those interested, I installed and have been running the Freedom Coast Cycling aftermarket SRAM levers with my Cominion setup for a few weeks and raced with them Sunday. They are a firmer/more solid replacement. They do bring the reach further from the bars and contact adjust unfortunately causes pad rub, still playing around with that part. The install was very easy, there's a video to follow along with and a small tool to assist parts of removal/installation. For both levers I think took maybe a half hour or one 7% IPA. The finger placement feels better and the lever end has a more pronounced hook to rest your finger in. You could 2 finger brake if desired but not something I so unless the situation is extremely dire.
They cost $119 USD, free shipping, but I had a coupon so it was a little less. Still costly for what they are and if one of my levers hadn't been bent and had suffered further metal fatigue failure, not sure I would have picked them up. I am satisfied with the purchase though.
FWIW my T4V4 feel very different with 2.05mm Dachle HD rotors than with 1.85mm Centerlines. I swap two wheelsets often and the thicker rotors feel much...
FWIW my T4V4 feel very different with 2.05mm Dachle HD rotors than with 1.85mm Centerlines. I swap two wheelsets often and the thicker rotors feel much closer to the on/off Shimano experience than the thinner ones.
Very good point! I run Hope two-piece rotors. They are slightly thicker than Shimano and Sram. I found both TRP and Hope rotor alloys to be some of the best out there. Have not tried Trickstuff or Galfer yet.
FYI I decided to sell my Intend Trinity set. You can find it on the big red website. After much consideration I really enjoy the linear power delivery of the Maximas so I will be keeping those.
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks...
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
So far, no regrets experimenting with them.
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power.
BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a good alternative if you are in a pinch and like a resin compound. Cheap at $25 a pair too. I've been running those in my Maximas and pretty impressed.
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks...
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power. BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a...
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power.
BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a good alternative if you are in a pinch and like a resin compound. Cheap at $25 a pair too. I've been running those in my Maximas and pretty impressed.
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches the Galfer color system.
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches...
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches the Galfer color system.
Close, but not identical (even though yes, Galfer does make the green Hope pads). There are some differences in how they look and feel.
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks...
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power. BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a...
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power.
BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a good alternative if you are in a pinch and like a resin compound. Cheap at $25 a pair too. I've been running those in my Maximas and pretty impressed.
The entrance/scree was the easy part of Dead Dog, but still managed to control speed alright through the rest (and worst) of it. Lol.
I've always had really good luck with Galfer and glad to go back to them. Maybe I'll try the Hope pads (esp if they're made by Galfer), but hard to go with something else when they're so good.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm...
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
Do yours move towards the bar or away?Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced...
Do yours move towards the bar or away?
Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced under warranty and it got better but it’s still not fixed.
I met a guy who runs a shop about 2 hr away from me that swears he can get them working correctly. I might make the trek out to him and let him try.
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the wandering bite point is caused by not bleeding (lever bleed or full bleed) without the contact adjustment fully wound out. Even a couple clicks wound in will cause some wandering bite point issues. So I'd start by making sure that whoever is bleeding them winds those fully out (and also pulls levers to bar during the bleed process at least a couple times). The couple time's I've bled mavens I've always gotten the wandering bite point when I haven't properly winded the contact adjustment out.
Though, to be safe now I wind them out, then back in, then back out during the bleed process.
The other thing that seems to have helped me on every mineral oil brake I've ever dealt with is leaving a bleed cup on the caliper overnight with the levers rubberbanded down. I recently got a set of pinner machine shop cup adaptors to fit some mavens, but I'm pretty sure if you're clever you could rig something up with a stick, some electrical tape and a maven syringe. This seems to help degass the mineral oil, andi s kinda similar to the suction method they mention with their syringes.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm...
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
Do yours move towards the bar or away?Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced...
Do yours move towards the bar or away?
Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced under warranty and it got better but it’s still not fixed.
I met a guy who runs a shop about 2 hr away from me that swears he can get them working correctly. I might make the trek out to him and let him try.
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the...
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the wandering bite point is caused by not bleeding (lever bleed or full bleed) without the contact adjustment fully wound out. Even a couple clicks wound in will cause some wandering bite point issues. So I'd start by making sure that whoever is bleeding them winds those fully out (and also pulls levers to bar during the bleed process at least a couple times). The couple time's I've bled mavens I've always gotten the wandering bite point when I haven't properly winded the contact adjustment out.
Though, to be safe now I wind them out, then back in, then back out during the bleed process.
The other thing that seems to have helped me on every mineral oil brake I've ever dealt with is leaving a bleed cup on the caliper overnight with the levers rubberbanded down. I recently got a set of pinner machine shop cup adaptors to fit some mavens, but I'm pretty sure if you're clever you could rig something up with a stick, some electrical tape and a maven syringe. This seems to help degass the mineral oil, andi s kinda similar to the suction method they mention with their syringes.
I’m bleeding them, and yes, the Sram manual tells you to wind out the adjuster.
To clarify, my bite point doesn’t wander. They pump up on rapid lever pulls.
Do yours move towards the bar or away?Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced...
Do yours move towards the bar or away?
Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced under warranty and it got better but it’s still not fixed.
I met a guy who runs a shop about 2 hr away from me that swears he can get them working correctly. I might make the trek out to him and let him try.
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the...
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the wandering bite point is caused by not bleeding (lever bleed or full bleed) without the contact adjustment fully wound out. Even a couple clicks wound in will cause some wandering bite point issues. So I'd start by making sure that whoever is bleeding them winds those fully out (and also pulls levers to bar during the bleed process at least a couple times). The couple time's I've bled mavens I've always gotten the wandering bite point when I haven't properly winded the contact adjustment out.
Though, to be safe now I wind them out, then back in, then back out during the bleed process.
The other thing that seems to have helped me on every mineral oil brake I've ever dealt with is leaving a bleed cup on the caliper overnight with the levers rubberbanded down. I recently got a set of pinner machine shop cup adaptors to fit some mavens, but I'm pretty sure if you're clever you could rig something up with a stick, some electrical tape and a maven syringe. This seems to help degass the mineral oil, andi s kinda similar to the suction method they mention with their syringes.
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches...
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches the Galfer color system.
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches...
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches the Galfer color system.
Close, but not identical (even though yes, Galfer does make the green Hope pads). There are some differences in how they look and feel.
That's right, I compared them side to side and the galfer green had a lot of metal particles compared to the hope green. This hope one I got has their own branding on it and the compound looks and feels identical to Trickstuff Power+ pads.
Top=hope, bottom=worn trickstuff power+ (ignore the pad retaining spikes poking through)
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks...
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
So far, no regrets experimenting with them.
As a precaution, I was told organic pads on 220 mm rotors on Ultimates is too much to have any control. Your mileage may vary.
As for wandering bite point of the Mavens, when I had similar effects on my Codes, I had to do a proper bleed on them to remove any air. Might not be the same in this case, just saying. It usually occurred on new brakes (factory bleed) or after a full piston rebuild, master and slave, so I a complete cleaning of the system was involved.
I'd say leaving the cup open overnight will be a far cry from vacuuming the syringe. I always pull the bubbles out of my syringes, both when bleeding brakes and when bleeding suspension dampers. And lately doing a lot of the bleeding by vacuuming the system (pulling the oil through the brake from both sides). It can pull some air past the outer master cylinder seal and though the fittings if they are not perfect though...
Made the move from Shimano to Hope Tech 4 V4 on my enduro bike this year. Took a little while to adjust to the modulation on offer, but now love them. Galfer purple pads and 220mm rotors in the Alps were faultless. Back in the UK I'm on 203 rotors and the hope red pads. Come winter I will switch to sintered. The Green pads are super powerful but worried about lifespan.
There is some noise in certain situations, but totally fine and not really noticeable.
I now want to replace the Shimano brakes on my trail bike with Hope brakes.
I have two sets of T4V4, incredible brakes! I could not find a fault for last two years!
I like the power and consistency of my Tech 4 V4s, but I don’t like how mushy the bite point feels compared to my old Codes.
Speaking of Hopes and Codes, has anyone ever heard of someone running Code levers on V4 calipers?
V4s have the same piston sizing as the calipers that Cascade Components sells as an upgrade for Codes. The only unknown is if the Hope and Sram hoses are compatible.
My friend has a set of old Tech 3 V4s in his spares box I might be able to pilfer the calipers from.
Never had a mushy bite point on my V4's!
You need to make sure to center the pistons properly over the rotor. If their timing is off, one bank of pistons may be contacting the rotor before the other bank, engaging only one pad, flexing the rotor to one side, which would give you that sensation. I had to center my pistons once and they were good to go, very firm bite.
The other thing to consider is pad retract. If you do larger caliper and same pad retract you get a mushier lever. Decreasing pad retract a little is how we kept the lever throw from increasing. I forget what the measurements are off the top of my head, but if you measure retract on the codes, which I believe is close to 1.75mm for both sides combined, and take 20% off that’s the number you’d want to be at. Don’t know what v4 calipers are in that regards, but that’s the question you’d want to sort out before throwing money at it.
I totally agree with you regarding grip force being strongest when the fingers are closes to the palm, and have always preferred a bite point close to the grip as a result. I'm not so picky on free stroke as long as the return spring in the lever isn't so strong that it becomes fatiguing to hold the lever in a partially activated position, but for stronger sprung brakes I'd also prefer a shorter free stroke for exactly that reason.
My questions to you are: While I get your point about lever shape playing a role, in your example of "Bleeding out" the free stroke in the Maxima or Hope, could you not just wind in the reach adjust on the lever, so that as out bleed out the free stroke the bite point moves in to match?
When "Bleeding out" the free stroke, you are basically pre-pressurizing the brake, somewhat similarly to what seems to be 1 property of that new Cascade Components add-on dial for brake reservoirs. Do you have any concerns about rupturing the rubber bladder in the reservoir, or losing heat related fluid expansion capacity, with this sort of strategy? They're made to function at more or less normal atmospheric pressures and have some give to them.
Interesting, I hadn’t really thought about that.
Pad rollback is controlled by the piston seals right? So you’re basically stuck with whatever Hope designed it for.
Yeah seal groove is the primary thing controlling it. Codes have a pretty large amount of retract so there’s a good chance it’ll work out for you.
Short answer, I don't think so.
Using reach adjust on the lever just changes the angle that the lever sits in reference to the lever body/bar, it does not adjust the plunger in the lever body or displace any brake fluid. The free stroke remains the same when using the reach adjust. You could in theory adjust bite point further out from the bar. The Hope's are great for this, but again, with such a powerful brake and such a long leverage, the free stroke is kind of needed. Maybe that makes sense? I'm no brake pro, just have experience on a lot of different brakes.
This is why I said if you prefer a lever closer to the bars and minimal free stroke, the Radic Kaha is absolutely your brake. I've tossed around idea of buying a set. But first wanted to try out the Direttissima as those are more on par with the Tech 4 E4 brakes. I'm not doing jump lines or DH runs anymore, i'm more of a single-track kinda guy. But i'm 6'2" and 220 lb rider weight, so I benefit from a very powerful brake, why I went with V4 Hope's after XTR, Guide and Code's. The Hope V4 are simply on another level of power compared to Codes. Have not tried the Maven. Frankly, I just don't like the way the Maven look. But to each their own.
I'm not sure if it warrants another topic, but this group of people would probably know best...
I have a couple sets of maven brakes, and I'm getting a wandering bite point sensation, that seems to occur first pull, then settles in over time. I've ridden enough shimano brakes to work through it, but I'm curious if other people have had issues. I have really been impressed with the brakes when they are working, but the inconsistency is driving me crazy. I'm confident I am following the official bleed procedure and setup, but there doesn't seem to be much out there, and its hard to sift through youtube's clickbait influencer algorithm to find out if other people have encountered this, and fixed it?
Do yours move towards the bar or away?
Mine move away from the bar after a few quick pulls. It’s really annoying, I got the levers replaced under warranty and it got better but it’s still not fixed.
I met a guy who runs a shop about 2 hr away from me that swears he can get them working correctly. I might make the trek out to him and let him try.
had it in the beginning as well, was very inconsistent with when it occured. The normal piston massage procedure wasn't enough to fix it, you need to do the more involved one listed under "trouble shooting" in the manual.
Remove the pads, use two rotors together (I used worn out 2mm Galfers), stick them between the pistons and pull the lever until the pistons touch the discs. Then pull very hard several times (like lever to the bar hard), then carefully push the pistons back in, I used a plastic tire lever. Repeat this process a few times, there was a noticeable difference in how easy you could push the pistons back when I was done.
That fixed it completely for me. Kinda dumb that a brake that is not inexpensive needs this done out of the box, but once it works its great. Wouldn't want any other brake right now from the ones I've tried so far.
Regarding grip force being highest with your fingers closest to the palm (hand basically closed), this is true but that position also sacrifices some dexterity to get the strength. You have better dexterity with your finger extended a little, roughly with your first knuckle at a 90 degree angle.
Everyone has to find their personal comfort zone.
You know, when the Mavens first came out and all reviews were blabbing about the piston massage thing I thought that's not a great way to introduce a new brake to the world. It invites a healthy amount of insanity, with some folx who may not read the full instructions doing the job half right and getting half right results over and over, then claiming garbage and off to warranty they go. To me it seems like an assembly lubrication issue. The square seals at the pistons should get lubed with brake fluid at assembly which is what this massaging process does. What I started to wonder was if they weren't lubed intentionally, maybe Sram had caliper warranty 'leak' issues that weren't leaks, just excessive fluid used to wet the pistons and seals at assembly. Bypassing that step at assembly would nix a false positive of a caliper leak.
FWIW my T4V4 feel very different with 2.05mm Dachle HD rotors than with 1.85mm Centerlines. I swap two wheelsets often and the thicker rotors feel much closer to the on/off Shimano experience than the thinner ones.
For those interested, I installed and have been running the Freedom Coast Cycling aftermarket SRAM levers with my Cominion setup for a few weeks and raced with them Sunday. They are a firmer/more solid replacement. They do bring the reach further from the bars and contact adjust unfortunately causes pad rub, still playing around with that part. The install was very easy, there's a video to follow along with and a small tool to assist parts of removal/installation. For both levers I think took maybe a half hour or one 7% IPA. The finger placement feels better and the lever end has a more pronounced hook to rest your finger in. You could 2 finger brake if desired but not something I so unless the situation is extremely dire.
They cost $119 USD, free shipping, but I had a coupon so it was a little less. Still costly for what they are and if one of my levers hadn't been bent and had suffered further metal fatigue failure, not sure I would have picked them up. I am satisfied with the purchase though.
Link to their site: https://freedomcoast.net/
Very good point! I run Hope two-piece rotors. They are slightly thicker than Shimano and Sram. I found both TRP and Hope rotor alloys to be some of the best out there. Have not tried Trickstuff or Galfer yet.
I will not run another rotor and pad setup beyond Galfer. Best setup I have tried in 20+ of bike shop life.
FYI I decided to sell my Intend Trinity set. You can find it on the big red website. After much consideration I really enjoy the linear power delivery of the Maximas so I will be keeping those.
Finally swapped pads on my Lewis LH4's after a pretty solid summer (Swansea, Revelstoke, Golden (including a couple runs down Dead Dog/Psychosis DH course), Sun Peaks, Squamish and a whole bunch of shuttling) and things are still running and feeling great. I'm switching from the stock pads to Galfer green's and am super interested to see what kind of a difference they make over stock. I think I'll also swap the front rotor to a 220mm in the future, but only because I'm 123kg and want all the help I can get, not because I feel like they're lacking power.
So far, no regrets experimenting with them.
Great to hear! Your straight line creep down the deaddog scree was a good show of their power.
BTW the Hope Green pads at insideline are a good alternative if you are in a pinch and like a resin compound. Cheap at $25 a pair too. I've been running those in my Maximas and pretty impressed.
Aren’t Hope Green and Galfer Green literally the same thing? I’m 90% sure my Hope pads said “Galfer” on the back, and the Hope coloring matches the Galfer color system.
Close, but not identical (even though yes, Galfer does make the green Hope pads). There are some differences in how they look and feel.
The entrance/scree was the easy part of Dead Dog, but still managed to control speed alright through the rest (and worst) of it. Lol.
I've always had really good luck with Galfer and glad to go back to them. Maybe I'll try the Hope pads (esp if they're made by Galfer), but hard to go with something else when they're so good.
I think I've figured out how to get the wandering bite point, and also how to solve it when you get it. I do think the wandering bite point is caused by not bleeding (lever bleed or full bleed) without the contact adjustment fully wound out. Even a couple clicks wound in will cause some wandering bite point issues. So I'd start by making sure that whoever is bleeding them winds those fully out (and also pulls levers to bar during the bleed process at least a couple times). The couple time's I've bled mavens I've always gotten the wandering bite point when I haven't properly winded the contact adjustment out.
Though, to be safe now I wind them out, then back in, then back out during the bleed process.
The other thing that seems to have helped me on every mineral oil brake I've ever dealt with is leaving a bleed cup on the caliper overnight with the levers rubberbanded down. I recently got a set of pinner machine shop cup adaptors to fit some mavens, but I'm pretty sure if you're clever you could rig something up with a stick, some electrical tape and a maven syringe. This seems to help degass the mineral oil, andi s kinda similar to the suction method they mention with their syringes.
I’m bleeding them, and yes, the Sram manual tells you to wind out the adjuster.
To clarify, my bite point doesn’t wander. They pump up on rapid lever pulls.
I'd give the overnight lever bleed a try then. Couldn't hurt.
nope, Galfer makes green pads, however they don't make Hope Green pads, it's the only hope pad not made by Galfer
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3PILqAiTXFRvbVHVckhjY9?si=ldC5v_MnRRaXI40Y9O9JGA
They talk about pads at 43 min into the podcast Claim about brake pads at 47 they say that the green ones are not by Galfer
That's right, I compared them side to side and the galfer green had a lot of metal particles compared to the hope green. This hope one I got has their own branding on it and the compound looks and feels identical to Trickstuff Power+ pads.
Top=hope, bottom=worn trickstuff power+ (ignore the pad retaining spikes poking through)
As a precaution, I was told organic pads on 220 mm rotors on Ultimates is too much to have any control. Your mileage may vary.
As for wandering bite point of the Mavens, when I had similar effects on my Codes, I had to do a proper bleed on them to remove any air. Might not be the same in this case, just saying. It usually occurred on new brakes (factory bleed) or after a full piston rebuild, master and slave, so I a complete cleaning of the system was involved.
I'd say leaving the cup open overnight will be a far cry from vacuuming the syringe. I always pull the bubbles out of my syringes, both when bleeding brakes and when bleeding suspension dampers. And lately doing a lot of the bleeding by vacuuming the system (pulling the oil through the brake from both sides). It can pull some air past the outer master cylinder seal and though the fittings if they are not perfect though...
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