Shark rotors are worth the money. Been using mine for about 4 weeks, done two big races and they feel amazing and straight as hell, which...
Shark rotors are worth the money. Been using mine for about 4 weeks, done two big races and they feel amazing and straight as hell, which ofc helps with my magura brakes too..
Thanks for the recommendation but the Sharks are really pricey. I could pick up 2 Dachle HDs from R2 for just a little more than 1...
Thanks for the recommendation but the Sharks are really pricey. I could pick up 2 Dachle HDs from R2 for just a little more than 1 Shark from Lordgun. Definitely interested, but they are a wee bit costly.
The price makes the most sense on the back of an enduro or DH bike that sees a lot of steep descents. The heat management does seem better than other rotors of similar size.
Quick question on brake pads. Im getting TRP DH-R Evo's and want to grab some sintered pads for them. I remember seeing they are compatable with...
Quick question on brake pads. Im getting TRP DH-R Evo's and want to grab some sintered pads for them. I remember seeing they are compatable with shimano. Would some DO2S pads work or would you reccomend different sintered pads? Cant find the trp ones anywhere
I ran my TRP's with Shimano metallic pads. Be aware that bed-in takes an extremely long time when paired with the TRP rotors though.
I've got a question for people who are currently on Mavens. In the recent Blister Gear Review of them, the author mentioned that he noticed that if you wind in the contact adjust, it makes the freestroke feel a lot softer. Have other people noticed this?
I'm currently on Hayes, but Maven-curious. I ran Codes before them, and mostly switched for the greater power and lighter feel, but I did really like a lot of the adjustment details on the Codes. I felt like they were a lot easier to keep feeling the same left/right as pads wore down. I rode up and down the street on a neighbor's bike with Maven Ultimates, who had the contact adjust wound all the way out and thought they were stiff but absurdly powerful (I almost went OTB at walking speed). I fiddled with some Maven Bronzes in a shop and felt like they had a bit of stiff initial resistance (like an eccentric cam feeling) that broke away into something much lighter before the bite.
I've got a question for people who are currently on Mavens. In the recent Blister Gear Review of them, the author mentioned that he noticed that...
I've got a question for people who are currently on Mavens. In the recent Blister Gear Review of them, the author mentioned that he noticed that if you wind in the contact adjust, it makes the freestroke feel a lot softer. Have other people noticed this?
I'm currently on Hayes, but Maven-curious. I ran Codes before them, and mostly switched for the greater power and lighter feel, but I did really like a lot of the adjustment details on the Codes. I felt like they were a lot easier to keep feeling the same left/right as pads wore down. I rode up and down the street on a neighbor's bike with Maven Ultimates, who had the contact adjust wound all the way out and thought they were stiff but absurdly powerful (I almost went OTB at walking speed). I fiddled with some Maven Bronzes in a shop and felt like they had a bit of stiff initial resistance (like an eccentric cam feeling) that broke away into something much lighter before the bite.
When you say making it softer, do you mean the initial breakaway force?
If so, it does a bit, but it’s still heavy. It also makes the brake feel kinda mushy and I have to move the lever reach way out due to the increased throw. I don’t like it.
When you say making it softer, do you mean the initial breakaway force?If so, it does a bit, but it’s still heavy. It also makes the...
When you say making it softer, do you mean the initial breakaway force?
If so, it does a bit, but it’s still heavy. It also makes the brake feel kinda mushy and I have to move the lever reach way out due to the increased throw. I don’t like it.
His comment is about 75% of the way down. When he says "wind out" he means away from furthest out/soonest contact point (opposite of how I'd phrase it). I don't think he moved the bite point all the way in to the opposite extreme, just somewhere in between. Incidentally, when I ran Codes, I ended up doing the same thing - while I liked the quick bite with the contact point all the way out, I found it gave me wicked arm pump, and ended up doing something more like a dozen clicks in (maybe halfway).
"And that brings me to the first big surprise (for me) of the Mavens: I actually run the contact point adjuster on them wound out a bit (i.e., with the free stroke set longer than the minimum setting). I’ve mentioned before that I don’t usually find contact point adjusters to be all that valuable, because (most of them, anyway) don’t fundamentally change the leverage of the brake or the way that it works, fundamentally — they just make a little bit of dead stroke at the beginning of the lever throw before the brake starts to do anything.
But, for reasons that aren’t quite clear to me, winding out the adjuster on the Mavens also makes the early part of the free stroke appreciably lighter, which I prefer. When I started spending time on the Mavens, I defaulted to running the adjuster wound all the way in, and found the early part of the stroke to feel firmer than I’d like. It wasn’t a huge deal, but especially after getting used to the ultra-light free stroke of the Hope Tech 4 V4s and (especially) Hayes Dominion A4 / T4s, the stiffer-feeling Maven lever felt a bit harder to modulate, and a bit more fatiguing on really extended steep descents that require a lot of brake dragging than I wanted.
But late in what wound up being a ~10,000’ elevation day on the bike, suffering from some arm pump, I tried winding the adjuster out to see if that would help any, and to my surprise, the free stroke felt lighter — and at least for my taste, better. It’s not entirely obvious why that would be mechanically, but I’ll take it. My one real gripe with the Mavens — the stiff-feeling lever — was solved.
The Maven’s free stroke still isn’t as light as that of the V4s or Dominions, but backing off the contact point adjuster took it from being a notable shortcoming (at least for my preferences) to a place that I’m totally happy with. I’d love to be able to have the ultra-short free stroke that the Maven offers with the bite point adjuster wound out and the lighter feel you get with it moved in. But (as we’ve talked about repeatedly, including in our deep dive on brake design with Hope engineer Sam Gibbs), many desirable traits for a brake exist in tension with each other and require the engineers to balance tradeoffs rather than just being able to fully optimize every single individual attribute. SRAM has walked that tightrope impressively well."
With swinglink, since the initial position of the cam profile doesn't change, the contact adjuster causes the position on the cam profile at which the pads make contact with the rotor to change. The more aggressive the ramp in the cam profile is, the more pronounced the difference in feel based on contact adjust is. The initial portion of the cam profile has decreased leverage so that the gap between the pads and the rotor can close quicker. The cam profile then transitions to higher leverage for increased braking force without an overly stiff lever. When contact adjust is wound all the way in, you transition to the higher leverage portion of the cam a little later relative to when the pads contact the rotor which results in a stiffer feel than if you wind it all the way out.
That makes sense. The cam is like a comma or nautilus shape, right (changing radius)? So when the contact adjuster is set to furthest out position (most +), it uses the lower leverage portion of the cam to advance the pistons faster (relative to lever throw). Moving the contact adjuster towards the - uses lower leverage and moves the pistons slower, taking more lever throw to get to the bite point, but also needing less finger force to get there. Or in other words, if you use a longer lever arm or an easier pulley arrangement to move something, it will take less force but you'll have to move the lever or rope further.
That makes sense. The cam is like a comma or nautilus shape, right (changing radius)? So when the contact adjuster is set to furthest out position...
That makes sense. The cam is like a comma or nautilus shape, right (changing radius)? So when the contact adjuster is set to furthest out position (most +), it uses the lower leverage portion of the cam to advance the pistons faster (relative to lever throw). Moving the contact adjuster towards the - uses lower leverage and moves the pistons slower, taking more lever throw to get to the bite point, but also needing less finger force to get there. Or in other words, if you use a longer lever arm or an easier pulley arrangement to move something, it will take less force but you'll have to move the lever or rope further.
So, tradeoffs.
Here's a drawing of one with notes added for the profile:
By changing angle and length of each of the sections, you can tune lever feel to your heart's content.
One clarification on contact adjustment.Sram contact adjustment changes the length of the pushrod between the lever rocker and the main piston.As you dial the adjuster “in”...
One clarification on contact adjustment.
Sram contact adjustment changes the length of the pushrod between the lever rocker and the main piston.
As you dial the adjuster “in” you shorten the pushrod which results in you being in a later portion of the cam for the same main piston position.
The whole in/out thing is a little murky. To me wound in equals master cylinder piston advanced into lever body as much as possible, which is longer push rod, whereas wound out results in the piston being further out of the bore for the same lever position. That seems to be what is described in the blister review.
One clarification on contact adjustment.Sram contact adjustment changes the length of the pushrod between the lever rocker and the main piston.As you dial the adjuster “in”...
One clarification on contact adjustment.
Sram contact adjustment changes the length of the pushrod between the lever rocker and the main piston.
As you dial the adjuster “in” you shorten the pushrod which results in you being in a later portion of the cam for the same main piston position.
The whole in/out thing is a little murky. To me wound in equals master cylinder piston advanced into lever body as much as possible, which is...
The whole in/out thing is a little murky. To me wound in equals master cylinder piston advanced into lever body as much as possible, which is longer push rod, whereas wound out results in the piston being further out of the bore for the same lever position. That seems to be what is described in the blister review.
The lever bodies are marked with an arrow labeled “IN”. More “IN” correlates to less piston movement and the lever contacting closer to the bar.
Your “fully in” is the opposite of the maximum “IN” adjustment Sram marks on their brakes.
With Mavens, as you move the adjuster towards “IN” you start slightly later on the cam, which reduces the breakaway feeling as you begin moving the lever. The tradeoff is that you lose the super positive feel of the pads contacting the rotor and it starts to feel a bit mushy like a Hope or Magura.
The lever bodies are marked with an arrow labeled “IN”. More “IN” correlates to less piston movement and the lever contacting closer to the bar.Your “fully...
The lever bodies are marked with an arrow labeled “IN”. More “IN” correlates to less piston movement and the lever contacting closer to the bar.
Your “fully in” is the opposite of the maximum “IN” adjustment Sram marks on their brakes.
With Mavens, as you move the adjuster towards “IN” you start slightly later on the cam, which reduces the breakaway feeling as you begin moving the lever. The tradeoff is that you lose the super positive feel of the pads contacting the rotor and it starts to feel a bit mushy like a Hope or Magura.
The trouble is I'm not sure I've really heard anyone other than Sram talk about the contact adjust using the same directions as the arrow on the lever. Probably because just about everything else on a bike gets firmer as you "wind it in". The Blister review is definitely describing winding in the direction opposite to that of the arrow.
The trouble is I'm not sure I've really heard anyone other than Sram talk about the contact adjust using the same directions as the arrow on...
The trouble is I'm not sure I've really heard anyone other than Sram talk about the contact adjust using the same directions as the arrow on the lever. Probably because just about everything else on a bike gets firmer as you "wind it in". The Blister review is definitely describing winding in the direction opposite to that of the arrow.
I’m pretty sure Blister are inconsistent with their terminology because they also say this:
“I’d love to be able to have the ultra-short free stroke that the Maven offers with the bite point adjuster wound out and the lighter feel you get with it moved in.“
That is consistent with the way sram label it, contact out = less lever throw.
It’s kind of immaterial anyway. In the context of OP’s question, winding them in the direction of Sram’s “IN” adjustment does make the breakaway softer.
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could. Figured I’d hop...
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
yeah please do! even some pictures of clearance with the 612 calipers that are quite wide, and the updated kahas lever as there's nothing online
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could. Figured I’d hop...
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
yeah please do! even some pictures of clearance with the 612 calipers that are quite wide, and the updated kahas lever as there's nothing online
Will do! I need to reach out to Felix and ask about one last thing. Hoping the location of the lever adjust knob won’t interfere with the inside edge of meaty paws if I have to run them slammed outboard as far as possible because I run my hands slightly overlapping the edge. Should be good though…
And yeah, I can definitely upload some pics and stuff when I get them in and on. Eager to see both in person!
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could. Figured I’d hop...
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
Very interested to hear about the 612's, very cool looking set of brakes! Have been getting some time on my Kaha's and really liking them, not a huge step up in power from my A4's but its there. The lever ergo is my favorite so far, the long blades allow me to run my controls inside of the lever but still far enough out that my thumbs aren't rubbing on the dropper and shift paddles.
After being on MTX golds for about a year and a half now, I would really recommend Sinter's green compound. More power than the MTX's by a good amount and also the stock Radic pad, which has somewhat of a soft bite. Going to the Sinter pads got me the bite that I get out of my A4's with the sinter pads but even more power.
I'll try to get some pictures of the new levers. The bite point adjust works quite well so far with the exception of the locking screw being on the back of lever so to adjust it you need to remove the lever, loosen the screw, adjust, then tighten the screw... kinda weird. I also really dont like the bleeding edge fitting and would rather have a standard sram bleed fitting there but Its not the end of the world.
Mavens are working fine with galfer adapter up front with 203 and p20-2 is working fine as a 160 to 180. Got the bronzes on pro deal and didn’t want to spend any extra on new rotors and adapters. They are solid, highly recommended for ppl who want high power and low(ish) price.
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could. Figured I’d hop...
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday! Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
Very interested to hear about the 612's, very cool looking set of brakes! Have been getting some time on my Kaha's and really liking them, not...
Very interested to hear about the 612's, very cool looking set of brakes! Have been getting some time on my Kaha's and really liking them, not a huge step up in power from my A4's but its there. The lever ergo is my favorite so far, the long blades allow me to run my controls inside of the lever but still far enough out that my thumbs aren't rubbing on the dropper and shift paddles.
After being on MTX golds for about a year and a half now, I would really recommend Sinter's green compound. More power than the MTX's by a good amount and also the stock Radic pad, which has somewhat of a soft bite. Going to the Sinter pads got me the bite that I get out of my A4's with the sinter pads but even more power.
I'll try to get some pictures of the new levers. The bite point adjust works quite well so far with the exception of the locking screw being on the back of lever so to adjust it you need to remove the lever, loosen the screw, adjust, then tighten the screw... kinda weird. I also really dont like the bleeding edge fitting and would rather have a standard sram bleed fitting there but Its not the end of the world.
I’m definitely excited to get them! And right on! Pumped to see good feedback on the Kahas and glad they are treating you well! That’s awesome to hear. I think anything with more power than the codes will be exciting for me and both the brakes seem to be in the upper level of power as well so should be good.
The long blade and shape of them definitely looks attractive. Should make for good range of positioning on them. Stoked! That’s good to know too because I’ve definitely ran into the bloody thumbs from controls
dang, someone who was a longtime MTX Gold user so you know what they are like. So appreciate the recommendation! I’ll definitely take a look at those Sintered Greens. They sure sound nice based off your feedback.
Yes, please and thank you. Be awesome to see some pics of them. Glad the new set up is good! Minor annoyance but sounds solid overall
Since the bleeding instructions on the site are from before the addition of the bite point adjuster, I have found that there are some tricks that help to get a good bleed. The adjuster needs to be in a specific position in order to get all the trapped air out. The only way that I have found that position is by rotating the bite point adjuster out from the fully closed/in position, rotating CW until it stops, then start to back out. If you pressurize the lever syringe slightly, you will feel the drop in pressure once you get to the point that all the ports line up. If you go a little further you'll be able to feel when there is the least amount of port occlusion which will let you get all of the air out of the lever. Ive only had to do this on the rear after shortening the hose. I thought that I had a good bleed, but found out about halfway through my run yesterday that I had a pretty sizable bubble that worked its way from the reservoir into the line and I lost all rear brake power within 10-15 seconds, lever to the bar... Good news is that I got to work on front brake only technique for the rest of the ride 👍 It took some fiddling once I got home to get the bubble worked out but once I got the ports lined up as best as I could by feeling for the fluidic resistance when pushing back and forth between the caliper and lever two good sized bubbles came out and the system firmed up right away. I now have my bite point adjusters about 2 turns CCW from closed on both the front and rear brake. It should have dawned on me before that needing to have the rear bite point turned in pretty far from the front meant that there was still some air in the system. Live and learn...
Quick question on brake pads. Im getting TRP DH-R Evo's and want to grab some sintered pads for them. I remember seeing they are compatable with...
Quick question on brake pads. Im getting TRP DH-R Evo's and want to grab some sintered pads for them. I remember seeing they are compatable with shimano. Would some DO2S pads work or would you reccomend different sintered pads? Cant find the trp ones anywhere
MTX Red or Gold Pads. I run Red's on my DH-Rs and I prefer the feel over TRP or Shimano Sintered and the bed in time on TRP rotors was hilarious quick. Will be switching my XT 4 pots and Trail Evos over once the current pads are toast.
Dang that is a wide mount. Could cause problems with some curvier bars that are cut a bit more narrow (~750 mm).
Absolutely, but it’s on the other hand it does provide an insane amount of perch to play with control positioning. Some people love the short lever setup with shimano brakes. I hate it, I tolerated it because for the better part of 7 years dealing with shimano brakes was far better than suffering the garbage that sram was putting out. IMO the industry as a whole is in such a better position to have soo many amazing systems out there, I’d even include Lewis into that fold, it’s pretty rad that you have to try to find a crappy brake setup these days. The market has come very far from rim brake MTB’s when I started riding, that sh*t sucked!
Anyone else can’t get their Maven in the rear to feel as good as the front? Maybe due to hose flex?
Don’t know if this is because I’m coming from Formulas with Kevlar hoses which felt pretty much the same or because there’s still bubbles somewhere in there.
I’ve meticulously bled them, normal procedure according to Sean, plus separate vacuum bleeding of both caliper and lever, piston massage etc. Both ends feel great on their own, but there is a noticeable difference between them.
once I vacuum bled the rear an spent a little time doing the piston thing, only a hint of difference which was barely noticeable... the amount was less than other brands for front vs rear.
Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.
While going fast and just checking speed, it’s one of the most silent and vibration free combos ever tried, good power and everything,
On steep stuff when I’m ON the brakes, the rear rotor starts to make a “rubbing” noise almost as if the pad was trying to enter the Holes and Grooves on the rotor
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.While going fast...
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users
Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.
While going fast and just checking speed, it’s one of the most silent and vibration free combos ever tried, good power and everything,
On steep stuff when I’m ON the brakes, the rear rotor starts to make a “rubbing” noise almost as if the pad was trying to enter the Holes and Grooves on the rotor
Is that the way they sound or what?
Yep, that sounds about right. Or wrong, as it were 😂
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.While going fast...
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users
Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.
While going fast and just checking speed, it’s one of the most silent and vibration free combos ever tried, good power and everything,
On steep stuff when I’m ON the brakes, the rear rotor starts to make a “rubbing” noise almost as if the pad was trying to enter the Holes and Grooves on the rotor
There's a different noise for sure with the Dachle HD rotors. I used Top Brake Gold pads and now using Hardheaded Ram Sintered pads, both make a more aggressive sound with the Dachle vs the HS2.
I'm also very impressed with the sintered pads from Hardheaded Ram. Top Brake were good but these are so much better and half the price. They also stop really well just starting out, don't have to do a warm up run like I've had to with other sintered pads.
Just replaced the standard Code levers with the ones from Freedom Coast. Like yesterday evening, quick test ride today but need to rebleed the rear brake.They are a different feel for sure, sturdier was my initial impression. Will post again after the rebleed and more rides.
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.While going fast...
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users
Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.
While going fast and just checking speed, it’s one of the most silent and vibration free combos ever tried, good power and everything,
On steep stuff when I’m ON the brakes, the rear rotor starts to make a “rubbing” noise almost as if the pad was trying to enter the Holes and Grooves on the rotor
Yep, that sounds about right. Or wrong, as it were 😂
I am also say they sound exactly as you described on the real steep stuff. That's with Maxima and Power+ pads.
I am testing out Hope racing green pads with the Maxima so let's see how it goes. Looking at the pad material it looks identical to power+, is locally available and only $25 CAD per set.
The price makes the most sense on the back of an enduro or DH bike that sees a lot of steep descents. The heat management does seem better than other rotors of similar size.
I ran my TRP's with Shimano metallic pads. Be aware that bed-in takes an extremely long time when paired with the TRP rotors though.
I've got a question for people who are currently on Mavens. In the recent Blister Gear Review of them, the author mentioned that he noticed that if you wind in the contact adjust, it makes the freestroke feel a lot softer. Have other people noticed this?
I'm currently on Hayes, but Maven-curious. I ran Codes before them, and mostly switched for the greater power and lighter feel, but I did really like a lot of the adjustment details on the Codes. I felt like they were a lot easier to keep feeling the same left/right as pads wore down. I rode up and down the street on a neighbor's bike with Maven Ultimates, who had the contact adjust wound all the way out and thought they were stiff but absurdly powerful (I almost went OTB at walking speed). I fiddled with some Maven Bronzes in a shop and felt like they had a bit of stiff initial resistance (like an eccentric cam feeling) that broke away into something much lighter before the bite.
When you say making it softer, do you mean the initial breakaway force?
If so, it does a bit, but it’s still heavy. It also makes the brake feel kinda mushy and I have to move the lever reach way out due to the increased throw. I don’t like it.
https://blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/sram-maven-brakes
His comment is about 75% of the way down. When he says "wind out" he means away from furthest out/soonest contact point (opposite of how I'd phrase it). I don't think he moved the bite point all the way in to the opposite extreme, just somewhere in between. Incidentally, when I ran Codes, I ended up doing the same thing - while I liked the quick bite with the contact point all the way out, I found it gave me wicked arm pump, and ended up doing something more like a dozen clicks in (maybe halfway).
"And that brings me to the first big surprise (for me) of the Mavens: I actually run the contact point adjuster on them wound out a bit (i.e., with the free stroke set longer than the minimum setting). I’ve mentioned before that I don’t usually find contact point adjusters to be all that valuable, because (most of them, anyway) don’t fundamentally change the leverage of the brake or the way that it works, fundamentally — they just make a little bit of dead stroke at the beginning of the lever throw before the brake starts to do anything.
But, for reasons that aren’t quite clear to me, winding out the adjuster on the Mavens also makes the early part of the free stroke appreciably lighter, which I prefer. When I started spending time on the Mavens, I defaulted to running the adjuster wound all the way in, and found the early part of the stroke to feel firmer than I’d like. It wasn’t a huge deal, but especially after getting used to the ultra-light free stroke of the Hope Tech 4 V4s and (especially) Hayes Dominion A4 / T4s, the stiffer-feeling Maven lever felt a bit harder to modulate, and a bit more fatiguing on really extended steep descents that require a lot of brake dragging than I wanted.
But late in what wound up being a ~10,000’ elevation day on the bike, suffering from some arm pump, I tried winding the adjuster out to see if that would help any, and to my surprise, the free stroke felt lighter — and at least for my taste, better. It’s not entirely obvious why that would be mechanically, but I’ll take it. My one real gripe with the Mavens — the stiff-feeling lever — was solved.
The Maven’s free stroke still isn’t as light as that of the V4s or Dominions, but backing off the contact point adjuster took it from being a notable shortcoming (at least for my preferences) to a place that I’m totally happy with. I’d love to be able to have the ultra-short free stroke that the Maven offers with the bite point adjuster wound out and the lighter feel you get with it moved in. But (as we’ve talked about repeatedly, including in our deep dive on brake design with Hope engineer Sam Gibbs), many desirable traits for a brake exist in tension with each other and require the engineers to balance tradeoffs rather than just being able to fully optimize every single individual attribute. SRAM has walked that tightrope impressively well."
With swinglink, since the initial position of the cam profile doesn't change, the contact adjuster causes the position on the cam profile at which the pads make contact with the rotor to change. The more aggressive the ramp in the cam profile is, the more pronounced the difference in feel based on contact adjust is. The initial portion of the cam profile has decreased leverage so that the gap between the pads and the rotor can close quicker. The cam profile then transitions to higher leverage for increased braking force without an overly stiff lever. When contact adjust is wound all the way in, you transition to the higher leverage portion of the cam a little later relative to when the pads contact the rotor which results in a stiffer feel than if you wind it all the way out.
That makes sense. The cam is like a comma or nautilus shape, right (changing radius)? So when the contact adjuster is set to furthest out position (most +), it uses the lower leverage portion of the cam to advance the pistons faster (relative to lever throw). Moving the contact adjuster towards the - uses lower leverage and moves the pistons slower, taking more lever throw to get to the bite point, but also needing less finger force to get there. Or in other words, if you use a longer lever arm or an easier pulley arrangement to move something, it will take less force but you'll have to move the lever or rope further.
So, tradeoffs.
Here's a drawing of one with notes added for the profile:
By changing angle and length of each of the sections, you can tune lever feel to your heart's content.
One clarification on contact adjustment.
Sram contact adjustment changes the length of the pushrod between the lever rocker and the main piston.
As you dial the adjuster “in” you shorten the pushrod which results in you being in a later portion of the cam for the same main piston position.
The whole in/out thing is a little murky. To me wound in equals master cylinder piston advanced into lever body as much as possible, which is longer push rod, whereas wound out results in the piston being further out of the bore for the same lever position. That seems to be what is described in the blister review.
The lever bodies are marked with an arrow labeled “IN”. More “IN” correlates to less piston movement and the lever contacting closer to the bar.
Your “fully in” is the opposite of the maximum “IN” adjustment Sram marks on their brakes.
With Mavens, as you move the adjuster towards “IN” you start slightly later on the cam, which reduces the breakaway feeling as you begin moving the lever. The tradeoff is that you lose the super positive feel of the pads contacting the rotor and it starts to feel a bit mushy like a Hope or Magura.
The trouble is I'm not sure I've really heard anyone other than Sram talk about the contact adjust using the same directions as the arrow on the lever. Probably because just about everything else on a bike gets firmer as you "wind it in". The Blister review is definitely describing winding in the direction opposite to that of the arrow.
I’m pretty sure Blister are inconsistent with their terminology because they also say this:
“I’d love to be able to have the ultra-short free stroke that the Maven offers with the bite point adjuster wound out and the lighter feel you get with it moved in.“
That is consistent with the way sram label it, contact out = less lever throw.
It’s kind of immaterial anyway. In the context of OP’s question, winding them in the direction of Sram’s “IN” adjustment does make the breakaway softer.
Wowza what a thread to read! Found it yesterday… and read it all yesterday!
Learned a good bit. Soaked in as much as I could.
Figured I’d hop in at some point. Been eager to get some better brakes finally. Have been on Code RSCs for a good handful of years. Have always gone the extra mile with degassing and honestly spend longer doing the degas on syringes than I do on the whole rest of the bleed. Gives me a good crisp bite and have both Galfer Wave and Shark rotors with MTX Gold Pads. Have found the Galfer+ MTX combo to make a massive difference.
Ride DH about 7 days a week at Purg in CO which has a couple proper tracks and ride the awesome high country and other trails in the area. Anyways… love the brake feel! Hate the fade and lack of power.. that’s the downfall. At this point it’s just driving me nuts. The fade and arm pump when half way through a proper heater on World Cup or Links is excruciating. Feels like it’s a limiting factor on speed at this point. Have ridden some laps on other bikes like my good buddy Asa Vermettes bikes over the years and a couple other buddies bikes and the better brakes are VERY noticeable. Time for some upgrades on all the bikes!
Thanks to some incredibly helpful folks(some on here), I’ve narrowed down to what I think is worth going for and giving a proper try.
I think I’m going to order a set of 612s and Radic Kahas. Have spoken to bother owners and have all great things to say. The 612 reviews are extremely limited but based off design on paper, should be a fun set to try! Felix has been incredibly helpful and responsive in messages and I look forward to trying some! The Radics are scarce too but a handful more reviews and all seem great especially with the new addition of tool free reach and contact adjust.
Should be good fun! Excited to get em, test em out, hopefully enjoy them, crank the speed up a bit, and see what they are all about. Will keep posted on those two sets.
yeah please do! even some pictures of clearance with the 612 calipers that are quite wide, and the updated kahas lever as there's nothing online
Will do!
I need to reach out to Felix and ask about one last thing. Hoping the location of the lever adjust knob won’t interfere with the inside edge of meaty paws if I have to run them slammed outboard as far as possible because I run my hands slightly overlapping the edge.
Should be good though…
And yeah, I can definitely upload some pics and stuff when I get them in and on. Eager to see both in person!
Very interested to hear about the 612's, very cool looking set of brakes! Have been getting some time on my Kaha's and really liking them, not a huge step up in power from my A4's but its there. The lever ergo is my favorite so far, the long blades allow me to run my controls inside of the lever but still far enough out that my thumbs aren't rubbing on the dropper and shift paddles.
After being on MTX golds for about a year and a half now, I would really recommend Sinter's green compound. More power than the MTX's by a good amount and also the stock Radic pad, which has somewhat of a soft bite. Going to the Sinter pads got me the bite that I get out of my A4's with the sinter pads but even more power.
I'll try to get some pictures of the new levers. The bite point adjust works quite well so far with the exception of the locking screw being on the back of lever so to adjust it you need to remove the lever, loosen the screw, adjust, then tighten the screw... kinda weird. I also really dont like the bleeding edge fitting and would rather have a standard sram bleed fitting there but Its not the end of the world.
Mavens are working fine with galfer adapter up front with 203 and p20-2 is working fine as a 160 to 180. Got the bronzes on pro deal and didn’t want to spend any extra on new rotors and adapters. They are solid, highly recommended for ppl who want high power and low(ish) price.
I’m definitely excited to get them!
And right on! Pumped to see good feedback on the Kahas and glad they are treating you well! That’s awesome to hear. I think anything with more power than the codes will be exciting for me and both the brakes seem to be in the upper level of power as well so should be good.
The long blade and shape of them definitely looks attractive. Should make for good range of positioning on them. Stoked!
That’s good to know too because I’ve definitely ran into the bloody thumbs from controls
dang, someone who was a longtime MTX Gold user so you know what they are like. So appreciate the recommendation! I’ll definitely take a look at those Sintered Greens. They sure sound nice based off your feedback.
Yes, please and thank you. Be awesome to see some pics of them. Glad the new set up is good! Minor annoyance but sounds solid overall
Since the bleeding instructions on the site are from before the addition of the bite point adjuster, I have found that there are some tricks that help to get a good bleed. The adjuster needs to be in a specific position in order to get all the trapped air out. The only way that I have found that position is by rotating the bite point adjuster out from the fully closed/in position, rotating CW until it stops, then start to back out. If you pressurize the lever syringe slightly, you will feel the drop in pressure once you get to the point that all the ports line up. If you go a little further you'll be able to feel when there is the least amount of port occlusion which will let you get all of the air out of the lever. Ive only had to do this on the rear after shortening the hose. I thought that I had a good bleed, but found out about halfway through my run yesterday that I had a pretty sizable bubble that worked its way from the reservoir into the line and I lost all rear brake power within 10-15 seconds, lever to the bar... Good news is that I got to work on front brake only technique for the rest of the ride 👍 It took some fiddling once I got home to get the bubble worked out but once I got the ports lined up as best as I could by feeling for the fluidic resistance when pushing back and forth between the caliper and lever two good sized bubbles came out and the system firmed up right away. I now have my bite point adjusters about 2 turns CCW from closed on both the front and rear brake. It should have dawned on me before that needing to have the rear bite point turned in pretty far from the front meant that there was still some air in the system. Live and learn...
MTX Red or Gold Pads.
I run Red's on my DH-Rs and I prefer the feel over TRP or Shimano Sintered and the bed in time on TRP rotors was hilarious quick. Will be switching my XT 4 pots and Trail Evos over once the current pads are toast.
Dang that is a wide mount. Could cause problems with some curvier bars that are cut a bit more narrow (~750 mm).
Absolutely, but it’s on the other hand it does provide an insane amount of perch to play with control positioning. Some people love the short lever setup with shimano brakes. I hate it, I tolerated it because for the better part of 7 years dealing with shimano brakes was far better than suffering the garbage that sram was putting out. IMO the industry as a whole is in such a better position to have soo many amazing systems out there, I’d even include Lewis into that fold, it’s pretty rad that you have to try to find a crappy brake setup these days. The market has come very far from rim brake MTB’s when I started riding, that sh*t sucked!
Anyone else can’t get their Maven in the rear to feel as good as the front? Maybe due to hose flex?
Don’t know if this is because I’m coming from Formulas with Kevlar hoses which felt pretty much the same or because there’s still bubbles somewhere in there.
I’ve meticulously bled them, normal procedure according to Sean, plus separate vacuum bleeding of both caliper and lever, piston massage etc. Both ends feel great on their own, but there is a noticeable difference between them.
once I vacuum bled the rear an spent a little time doing the piston thing, only a hint of difference which was barely noticeable... the amount was less than other brands for front vs rear.
Question to Trickstuff Dahle HD rotors users
Current on power pads on MT7 brakes, Curious also on what brake/pad combo you were using the rotors.
While going fast and just checking speed, it’s one of the most silent and vibration free combos ever tried, good power and everything,
On steep stuff when I’m ON the brakes, the rear rotor starts to make a “rubbing” noise almost as if the pad was trying to enter the Holes and Grooves on the rotor
Is that the way they sound or what?
Yep, that sounds about right. Or wrong, as it were 😂
Same for you then?
There's a different noise for sure with the Dachle HD rotors. I used Top Brake Gold pads and now using Hardheaded Ram Sintered pads, both make a more aggressive sound with the Dachle vs the HS2.
I'm also very impressed with the sintered pads from Hardheaded Ram. Top Brake were good but these are so much better and half the price. They also stop really well just starting out, don't have to do a warm up run like I've had to with other sintered pads.
Just replaced the standard Code levers with the ones from Freedom Coast. Like yesterday evening, quick test ride today but need to rebleed the rear brake.They are a different feel for sure, sturdier was my initial impression. Will post again after the rebleed and more rides.
I am also say they sound exactly as you described on the real steep stuff. That's with Maxima and Power+ pads.
I am testing out Hope racing green pads with the Maxima so let's see how it goes. Looking at the pad material it looks identical to power+, is locally available and only $25 CAD per set.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment