Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w cheap nukeproof metallic pads. The code r's that came on my latest bike(yt decoy) develooed lever slop, friction and subsequent power loss in acouple months and tgey werent as powerful even when they were new. Code rsc with the bearing pivots are much better than code r. Id still take my saints over code rsc. Not many, if any bike part , is still relevant after 10 yrs. I havent tried trp's , hayes dominion , hope evo tech 4 though
Guides or Codes feel like pushing a sponge when doing dishes. Not something i really enjoy, at home or on a bike. XTRs are pretty good with no wandering bite point either.
The public perception of Srams brake options over the years has mind fucked me. In the not too distant past there were world cup DH riders...
The public perception of Srams brake options over the years has mind fucked me. In the not too distant past there were world cup DH riders using guides and most people were fairly happy with them. For quite a while now Codes (especially the RSC) has been a benchmark for a very good brake for basically any application and everybody decided to shit on guides. Now that mavens simply exist I guess we have to steer clear of codes because they are garbage now.
I’ll be on current saints till I need adult diapers.
that's because codes are indeed garbage, they were before and they will be in the future, little power and lot of strength required to obtain it...
that's because codes are indeed garbage, they were before and they will be in the future, little power and lot of strength required to obtain it, the exact opposite of what a "downhill" brake should be
Is there anything under the sun that you don't consider garbage?
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w...
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w cheap nukeproof metallic pads. The code r's that came on my latest bike(yt decoy) develooed lever slop, friction and subsequent power loss in acouple months and tgey werent as powerful even when they were new. Code rsc with the bearing pivots are much better than code r. Id still take my saints over code rsc. Not many, if any bike part , is still relevant after 10 yrs. I havent tried trp's , hayes dominion , hope evo tech 4 though
The difference in Codes (R vs. RSC) is in the swing link, not the bearing.
The public perception of Srams brake options over the years has mind fucked me. In the not too distant past there were world cup DH riders...
The public perception of Srams brake options over the years has mind fucked me. In the not too distant past there were world cup DH riders using guides and most people were fairly happy with them. For quite a while now Codes (especially the RSC) has been a benchmark for a very good brake for basically any application and everybody decided to shit on guides. Now that mavens simply exist I guess we have to steer clear of codes because they are garbage now.
I’ll be on current saints till I need adult diapers.
that's because codes are indeed garbage, they were before and they will be in the future, little power and lot of strength required to obtain it...
that's because codes are indeed garbage, they were before and they will be in the future, little power and lot of strength required to obtain it, the exact opposite of what a "downhill" brake should be
Is there anything under the sun that you don't consider garbage?
Thank You,
My thoughts exactly.
We could all use a little headed thinking, and the realization that we are all different, ride different, on different terrain, with different abilities, on different bikes, and have different needs/wants.
We live in a wonderful time, with amazing choices, that all work really well
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w...
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w cheap nukeproof metallic pads. The code r's that came on my latest bike(yt decoy) develooed lever slop, friction and subsequent power loss in acouple months and tgey werent as powerful even when they were new. Code rsc with the bearing pivots are much better than code r. Id still take my saints over code rsc. Not many, if any bike part , is still relevant after 10 yrs. I havent tried trp's , hayes dominion , hope evo tech 4 though
The difference in Codes (R vs. RSC) is in the swing link, not the bearing.
Oh ok. Ive tried fsc's but never had them. I was disappointed with the early wear , slop and then friction of the cheaply made code r pivots. Total opposite experience w my saints
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w...
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w cheap nukeproof metallic pads. The code r's that came on my latest bike(yt decoy) develooed lever slop, friction and subsequent power loss in acouple months and tgey werent as powerful even when they were new. Code rsc with the bearing pivots are much better than code r. Id still take my saints over code rsc. Not many, if any bike part , is still relevant after 10 yrs. I havent tried trp's , hayes dominion , hope evo tech 4 though
The difference in Codes (R vs. RSC) is in the swing link, not the bearing.
Back in the days of the OG purple Hayes, I used to take out the pivot bushing in the lever. Made for a lever that tracked my finger, and I prefered the feel, it was similar to my dirt bike, so it felt familiar.
Only noticed it after replacing the lever and losing the little bushings.
Funny how one person can find fault, another can find comfort and performance.
Sorry for wording it badly, of course RSC s have bearings. But they are not the performance differentiatior. This is where the swing link is the factor between the two.
I must admit I very much like Code RSCs (to be honest I did like Lewis Ultimates better, but not 500+ eur better), but every Code R that I touched is, well... Garbage. The lever feel is completely different.
Might be the bushings. But I'm fairly certain it's the swing link as I did used to run Guide RS brakes that had both bushings and the swing link.
I just swapped the Code Stealths that came on my new bike for Cura 4s. I thought I would just run the Codes - how bad can it really be. I tried different pads and the braking power is just not enough for me at 72kg with 200mm discs on long descents. On the second half of longer alpine trails I just had to pull the brakes as hard as I can before every corner and it made precise corner entry impossible. The worst is when you pull the brakes hard, they slightly fade and then when the front wheel loses contact for a split second over a hole it locks up in the air. If braking power is limited you just cant comfortably go fast.
I really wonder why Sram athletes started using 220 rotors front and rear a few years ago...
Now back on the Curas I can brake how and whenever I want not once thinking about the brakes during riding.
I heard mid july rumoured for that yt. I'm super curious as well. I wouldnt doubt if we see a new full powered decoy as well
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates on a few models but otherwise I wonder if it's a full frame refresh? I've been waiting on the 29 core 4 to come back into stock on sale -$2000, the geo and specs seem great, a light emtb to me would only mean less range and -7 to 9 lbs.
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates...
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates on a few models but otherwise I wonder if it's a full frame refresh? I've been waiting on the 29 core 4 to come back into stock on sale -$2000, the geo and specs seem great, a light emtb to me would only mean less range and -7 to 9 lbs.
Fingers crossed, im wondering the same.
I'd like to add a bosch sx 150mm or more preferably. Those bikes have been coming in around 41-43lbs with the 400w battery and 47ish lbs w the 250w extender. 400w with bosch should get close to my 540w and shimano
Garbage is bit strong if the brake just works. I find the RSC criticisms of feel and performance very accurate, had the same thoughts under my helmet. Im open to greasy tech benefits, but feel disconnect compared to shimano 4 pots.
Is there anything under the sun that you don't consider garbage?
the good stuff, which there's plenty, stuff that doesn't perform like a 20$ brake costing 600$, drivetrains that don't fail or slap around while costing thousands of $$$, it really doesn't take much.
i might say garbage which is a strong word, but just think about that a code costs r the same as a saint, street price, and nobody has good experience with them, isn't that crap?
Looking forward to it. Seems it is much like hybrid-coil-air Moto adoption on an Avalanche full build, instead functioning only with an air canister.
Has this been discussed previously? Sorry if it has but I have just put two and two together when I seen the latest Specialized teaser this morning and it shows a genie bottle with a Fox climb switch lever on it. Or are you both industry insiders with "need to know" info adding to the hype which I am clearly getting sucked in too!
Has this been discussed previously? Sorry if it has but I have just put two and two together when I seen the latest Specialized teaser this...
Has this been discussed previously? Sorry if it has but I have just put two and two together when I seen the latest Specialized teaser this morning and it shows a genie bottle with a Fox climb switch lever on it. Or are you both industry insiders with "need to know" info adding to the hype which I am clearly getting sucked in too!
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig Seekins @ Avalanche DH Racing has been performing in-part or in entirety when outfitting his damper builds.
For instance - my current AVA Fork takes Factory suggestions for Air PSI and lops off 20% If it were the full-meal-deal, the fork then slices and dices its way to having 25% the OE spec air support w/ a build including a tuned Coil Spring ontop of an Air Chamber.
w/o having seen the bits & the pieces of the Fox Genie Shock, it would appear - again - by https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/post that a large portion of the shock stroke maintains a range of linear damping, possibly having second chamber overlap near full compression running at lower-pressure but having a radical offset to the remainder of the shock stroke - due to entrails.
Sorry for wording it badly, of course RSC s have bearings. But they are not the performance differentiatior. This is where the swing link is the...
Sorry for wording it badly, of course RSC s have bearings. But they are not the performance differentiatior. This is where the swing link is the factor between the two.
I must admit I very much like Code RSCs (to be honest I did like Lewis Ultimates better, but not 500+ eur better), but every Code R that I touched is, well... Garbage. The lever feel is completely different.
Might be the bushings. But I'm fairly certain it's the swing link as I did used to run Guide RS brakes that had both bushings and the swing link.
Yeah I think the swing link is the main difference, gives it a rising leverage ratio for a nicer feel along with better pad clearance. Brakes without it tend to either have long throw or constantly rub. Shimano is the same, their servo wave feature used to only be on SLX and above, but it looks like that is used down to deore level now! (Also it took my brain way too long to remember the name of SLX - kept going to search for Deore LX )
Honestly, people just need to learn how to bleed and service brakes better - keep the caliper pistons clean and make sure you remove ALL the air from the system and both brands can work mint. Pad choice and rotor size matters too regardless of which brand you have.
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig...
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig Seekins @ Avalanche DH Racing has been performing in-part or in entirety when outfitting his damper builds.
For instance - my current AVA Fork takes Factory suggestions for Air PSI and lops off 20% If it were the full-meal-deal, the fork then slices and dices its way to having 25% the OE spec air support w/ a build including a tuned Coil Spring ontop of an Air Chamber.
w/o having seen the bits & the pieces of the Fox Genie Shock, it would appear - again - by https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/post that a large portion of the shock stroke maintains a range of linear damping, possibly having second chamber overlap near full compression running at lower-pressure but having a radical offset to the remainder of the shock stroke - due to entrails.
So - Happy Entrails!
Thanks for clearing that up. Given me some more rumors and speculation to digest before hopefully finding out tomorrow.
Thanks for clearing that up. Given me some more rumors and speculation to digest before hopefully finding out tomorrow.
...whoa, whoa... are you an industry insider? Because everyone in the blogosphere is talking about 07.02 for 'finding out'... WTF?? That's messed up man...
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig...
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig Seekins @ Avalanche DH Racing has been performing in-part or in entirety when outfitting his damper builds.
For instance - my current AVA Fork takes Factory suggestions for Air PSI and lops off 20% If it were the full-meal-deal, the fork then slices and dices its way to having 25% the OE spec air support w/ a build including a tuned Coil Spring ontop of an Air Chamber.
w/o having seen the bits & the pieces of the Fox Genie Shock, it would appear - again - by https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/post that a large portion of the shock stroke maintains a range of linear damping, possibly having second chamber overlap near full compression running at lower-pressure but having a radical offset to the remainder of the shock stroke - due to entrails.
Thanks for clearing that up. Given me some more rumors and speculation to digest before hopefully finding out tomorrow.
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined with a new advanced technology called a "bump stop" which engages near the end of the stroke. This high tech polymer acts like a spring but has no effect in the first portion of the travel! Those specialized guys are so far ahead of everyone that it has to be something radical like that, which no on else has ever done before
...whoa, whoa... are you an industry insider? Because everyone in the blogosphere is talking about 07.02 for 'finding out'... WTF?? That's messed up man...
I’m just a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Ever since Specialized made marketing campaigns with aliens and bikes floating in mid air, I've been suspect there’s something fishy going on. Now they’ve got genies in bottles with climb switches… Either way, we gon find out tomorrow if were gonna need three wishes from these genies or if Specialized are geniuses and knock it out the park.
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined...
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined with a new advanced technology called a "bump stop" which engages near the end of the stroke. This high tech polymer acts like a spring but has no effect in the first portion of the travel! Those specialized guys are so far ahead of everyone that it has to be something radical like that, which no on else has ever done before
I feel the sarcasm in this one. Might be a stupid question but as a professional, you would be best to comment on it. For what we think it is, is this some new territory for air shocks or are Specialized just re-inventing the wheel, going to make it sound revolutionary and competitors already have shocks that do this?
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates...
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates on a few models but otherwise I wonder if it's a full frame refresh? I've been waiting on the 29 core 4 to come back into stock on sale -$2000, the geo and specs seem great, a light emtb to me would only mean less range and -7 to 9 lbs.
Fingers crossed, im wondering the same.
I'd like to add a bosch sx 150mm or more preferably. Those bikes have been coming in around 41-43lbs with...
Fingers crossed, im wondering the same.
I'd like to add a bosch sx 150mm or more preferably. Those bikes have been coming in around 41-43lbs with the 400w battery and 47ish lbs w the 250w extender. 400w with bosch should get close to my 540w and shimano
I’d like to see the Fazua or Bosch with a swappable battery, like the Transition Relay. I’d rather swap a whole new battery at the truck and there’s zero reason these bikes can’t be compatible with a range extender as well. Other than the Decoy the Relay is by far the most popular emtb I’m seeing people on in and around the bike park. Really think the market is wide open for long travel mid weight eebs.
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined...
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined with a new advanced technology called a "bump stop" which engages near the end of the stroke. This high tech polymer acts like a spring but has no effect in the first portion of the travel! Those specialized guys are so far ahead of everyone that it has to be something radical like that, which no on else has ever done before
I feel the sarcasm in this one. Might be a stupid question but as a professional, you would be best to comment on it. For what...
I feel the sarcasm in this one. Might be a stupid question but as a professional, you would be best to comment on it. For what we think it is, is this some new territory for air shocks or are Specialized just re-inventing the wheel, going to make it sound revolutionary and competitors already have shocks that do this?
It's almost always the latter - There has been a lot of quite well proven suspension technology already put to use over the last few decades, we just seem to zig zag between combining different concepts every few years. Not that those products in the past were perfect - its instead of being refined they just get scrapped and replaced with something completely different until someone else comes along and takes the good parts of that design and builds on it.
It's either that, or a kind of dual chamber system that closes off near the end of the travel (like the reverse DRCV someone mentioned) maybe an IFP that hits a stop? Which feels like and excessively complicated way to handle bottom out control, especially when air spring are naturally progressive anyway.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong - I felt like most of my contributions to this thread we less rumor and more "umm.....actually" so maybe I'll just look like a dick for being so sarcastic
When will that YT Light emtb be released? And any word on additional Orbea Rise models (M20)?
Deore four piston brakes are better thsn codes. Saints are way better. Ive had my saints thru 5 boikes in 10yrs. They still work amazing w cheap nukeproof metallic pads. The code r's that came on my latest bike(yt decoy) develooed lever slop, friction and subsequent power loss in acouple months and tgey werent as powerful even when they were new. Code rsc with the bearing pivots are much better than code r. Id still take my saints over code rsc. Not many, if any bike part , is still relevant after 10 yrs. I havent tried trp's , hayes dominion , hope evo tech 4 though
I heard mid july rumoured for that yt. I'm super curious as well. I wouldnt doubt if we see a new full powered decoy as well
Guides or Codes feel like pushing a sponge when doing dishes. Not something i really enjoy, at home or on a bike. XTRs are pretty good with no wandering bite point either.
Is cable shifting the new trail casing tire, for OEM specs and lightweight builds?
Float Genie should drop Tuesday. Going to be interesting to see.
Looking forward to it. Seems it is much like hybrid-coil-air Moto adoption on an Avalanche full build, instead functioning only with an air canister.
Is there anything under the sun that you don't consider garbage?
The difference in Codes (R vs. RSC) is in the swing link, not the bearing.
Right. I shall change my user name immediately
Looks somewhat proprietary, we'll see what it is exactly.
Thank You,
My thoughts exactly.
We could all use a little headed thinking, and the realization that we are all different, ride different, on different terrain, with different abilities, on different bikes, and have different needs/wants.
We live in a wonderful time, with amazing choices, that all work really well
Oh ok. Ive tried fsc's but never had them. I was disappointed with the early wear , slop and then friction of the cheaply made code r pivots. Total opposite experience w my saints
Back in the days of the OG purple Hayes, I used to take out the pivot bushing in the lever. Made for a lever that tracked my finger, and I prefered the feel, it was similar to my dirt bike, so it felt familiar.
Only noticed it after replacing the lever and losing the little bushings.
Funny how one person can find fault, another can find comfort and performance.
Maybe theres a product in this idea
Sorry for wording it badly, of course RSC s have bearings. But they are not the performance differentiatior. This is where the swing link is the factor between the two.
I must admit I very much like Code RSCs (to be honest I did like Lewis Ultimates better, but not 500+ eur better), but every Code R that I touched is, well... Garbage. The lever feel is completely different.
Might be the bushings. But I'm fairly certain it's the swing link as I did used to run Guide RS brakes that had both bushings and the swing link.
I just swapped the Code Stealths that came on my new bike for Cura 4s. I thought I would just run the Codes - how bad can it really be. I tried different pads and the braking power is just not enough for me at 72kg with 200mm discs on long descents. On the second half of longer alpine trails I just had to pull the brakes as hard as I can before every corner and it made precise corner entry impossible. The worst is when you pull the brakes hard, they slightly fade and then when the front wheel loses contact for a split second over a hole it locks up in the air. If braking power is limited you just cant comfortably go fast.
I really wonder why Sram athletes started using 220 rotors front and rear a few years ago...
Now back on the Curas I can brake how and whenever I want not once thinking about the brakes during riding.
Decoy and Decoy 29 are mostly out of stock with a soon/July/Aug restock date so that checks. I can see some room for some spec updates on a few models but otherwise I wonder if it's a full frame refresh? I've been waiting on the 29 core 4 to come back into stock on sale -$2000, the geo and specs seem great, a light emtb to me would only mean less range and -7 to 9 lbs.
Fingers crossed, im wondering the same.
I'd like to add a bosch sx 150mm or more preferably. Those bikes have been coming in around 41-43lbs with the 400w battery and 47ish lbs w the 250w extender. 400w with bosch should get close to my 540w and shimano
Garbage is bit strong if the brake just works. I find the RSC criticisms of feel and performance very accurate, had the same thoughts under my helmet. Im open to greasy tech benefits, but feel disconnect compared to shimano 4 pots.
the good stuff, which there's plenty, stuff that doesn't perform like a 20$ brake costing 600$, drivetrains that don't fail or slap around while costing thousands of $$$, it really doesn't take much.
i might say garbage which is a strong word, but just think about that a code costs r the same as a saint, street price, and nobody has good experience with them, isn't that crap?
back to the rumors.
Has this been discussed previously? Sorry if it has but I have just put two and two together when I seen the latest Specialized teaser this morning and it shows a genie bottle with a Fox climb switch lever on it. Or are you both industry insiders with "need to know" info adding to the hype which I am clearly getting sucked in too!
I am most likely the furthest thing from an 'insider' - based on https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ forum post, the Air Shock appears to be emulating what Craig Seekins @ Avalanche DH Racing has been performing in-part or in entirety when outfitting his damper builds.
For instance - my current AVA Fork takes Factory suggestions for Air PSI and lops off 20% If it were the full-meal-deal, the fork then slices and dices its way to having 25% the OE spec air support w/ a build including a tuned Coil Spring ontop of an Air Chamber.
w/o having seen the bits & the pieces of the Fox Genie Shock, it would appear - again - by https://www.mtbr.com/posts/16265322/ post that a large portion of the shock stroke maintains a range of linear damping, possibly having second chamber overlap near full compression running at lower-pressure but having a radical offset to the remainder of the shock stroke - due to entrails.
So - Happy Entrails!
Yeah I think the swing link is the main difference, gives it a rising leverage ratio for a nicer feel along with better pad clearance. Brakes without it tend to either have long throw or constantly rub. Shimano is the same, their servo wave feature used to only be on SLX and above, but it looks like that is used down to deore level now! (Also it took my brain way too long to remember the name of SLX - kept going to search for Deore LX
)
Honestly, people just need to learn how to bleed and service brakes better - keep the caliper pistons clean and make sure you remove ALL the air from the system and both brands can work mint. Pad choice and rotor size matters too regardless of which brand you have.
Thanks for clearing that up. Given me some more rumors and speculation to digest before hopefully finding out tomorrow.
...whoa, whoa... are you an industry insider? Because everyone in the blogosphere is talking about 07.02 for 'finding out'... WTF?? That's messed up man...
Between that post and the recent podcast some guys from Specialized did, I'm going to speculate that the shock uses a high volume positive chamber combined with a new advanced technology called a "bump stop" which engages near the end of the stroke. This high tech polymer acts like a spring but has no effect in the first portion of the travel! Those specialized guys are so far ahead of everyone that it has to be something radical like that, which no on else has ever done before
I’m just a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Ever since Specialized made marketing campaigns with aliens and bikes floating in mid air, I've been suspect there’s something fishy going on. Now they’ve got genies in bottles with climb switches… Either way, we gon find out tomorrow if were gonna need three wishes from these genies or if Specialized are geniuses and knock it out the park.
I feel the sarcasm in this one. Might be a stupid question but as a professional, you would be best to comment on it. For what we think it is, is this some new territory for air shocks or are Specialized just re-inventing the wheel, going to make it sound revolutionary and competitors already have shocks that do this?
I’d like to see the Fazua or Bosch with a swappable battery, like the Transition Relay. I’d rather swap a whole new battery at the truck and there’s zero reason these bikes can’t be compatible with a range extender as well. Other than the Decoy the Relay is by far the most popular emtb I’m seeing people on in and around the bike park. Really think the market is wide open for long travel mid weight eebs.
It's almost always the latter - There has been a lot of quite well proven suspension technology already put to use over the last few decades, we just seem to zig zag between combining different concepts every few years. Not that those products in the past were perfect - its instead of being refined they just get scrapped and replaced with something completely different until someone else comes along and takes the good parts of that design and builds on it.
It's either that, or a kind of dual chamber system that closes off near the end of the travel (like the reverse DRCV someone mentioned) maybe an IFP that hits a stop? Which feels like and excessively complicated way to handle bottom out control, especially when air spring are naturally progressive anyway.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong - I felt like most of my contributions to this thread we less rumor and more "umm.....actually" so maybe I'll just look like a dick for being so sarcastic
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