MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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jonkranked
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10/2/2023 3:04pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2023 3:04pm
jonkranked wrote:
"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate" is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure...

"Maxxis certainly seem to have a much higher failure rate"

is that because more riders are on maxxis so it just seems like a higher failure rate (eg there are more of them out there so the discrete # of failures will inherently be higher)? or is it actually a higher defect rate? 

veefour wrote:
I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on...

I don't know, but there are a fair few teams running Contis and as Dirty Hal says I also can't think of any riders flatting on them during race runs this season, whereas the list for riders on Maxxis that I can think of immediately is pretty long, especially if you count Minnaar's separately.

In the absence of empirical data on this, we can only speculate. I'd certainly be curious to see how the numbers stack up. But the data set would also need to account for things like rider weight, inserts vs non, rim material, wheel size, tire pressure, etc. 

10/2/2023 4:09pm
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be...

I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me

They're very new still and might take a while to understand if they are up to the task, it would also make wheel rebuilds very tough during a race weekend as rims are basically expected to be disposable!

1
10/2/2023 4:24pm
mfoga wrote:
Or rim/tire/pressure/force that is the issue.  Also they keep saying they are on prototype tires so that may not be everyone. I know Jackson flatted today...

Or rim/tire/pressure/force that is the issue.  Also they keep saying they are on prototype tires so that may not be everyone.

I know Jackson flatted today but who else has had issues on syndicate this season 

My 2cents. 

I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts and felt good doing it. I'm running DT Swiss so that might help too. 

22
10/2/2023 5:17pm

Bec Henderson flatted her Maxxis, ruining a great ride. Tmk that was the only flat in the women's wc. 

1
watchcwgo
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10/2/2023 5:18pm

The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g! 
 

Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
 

Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached. 

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bizutch
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10/2/2023 5:45pm
watchcwgo wrote:
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around...

The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g! 
 

Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
 

Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached. 

It's not a stretch to think that. Cane Creek Duros wheels came out around that time. Straight lace on a girder style hub so spokes were super short.  Made mostly for pro slalom and aggressive trail. Slalom pros like Joe Haley & Chris Herndon would rip the bead off the rim in berms w/ tires at max psi.

I still have a rear against my shed and it's straight as an arrow. Rigid to a fault.

1
TEAMROBOT
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10/2/2023 5:53pm
bizutch wrote:

Oh...and there are some tricks that some mechanics/teams are using on their wheels/tires that not everyone uses & nobody is going to tell you.

Yeah, the truth about inserts is we never know whether racers are running inserts or not. Tire manufacturers want to be able to claim their racers like the manufacturers tires as is, "our tires don't need inserts," etc. That said, if I were Greg this season I would have started running a rear insert about 10 race run flats ago.

15
10/2/2023 5:57pm
My 2cents.  I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts...

My 2cents. 

I raced the 'prototype' tire in Chatel, after testing it at home, and was extremely happy with it. It shrugged off some gross impacts and felt good doing it. I'm running DT Swiss so that might help too. 

Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of a bulked up Shorty2?  Assuming the former, but just wanted to clarify. 

4
10/2/2023 6:07pm
Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of...

Jesse, are you talking about the 'prototype' in terms of the new casing/sidewall or the prototype in terms of the new tire that is more of a bulked up Shorty2?  Assuming the former, but just wanted to clarify. 

Yea, I was speaking towards the casing/sidewall prototype.

But I actually raced both of them, I swapped halfway through the day. The Mudslayer(not the actual name) was also super good. 

20
luisgutrod
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10/2/2023 8:42pm
samdaman1 wrote:
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they...

Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen to go in a similar direction to EXT due to yoke and trunnion mount issues

if that red knob is rebound, the shaft needs to be thicker as there has to be a hole to move fluid through it.. if the rebound circuit is on the piggyback, you can have a solid shaft and dont need it as thick  ? may be? I might be wrong.. anyhow, rebound there means this fox seems monotube then.. 

1
10/2/2023 9:49pm
samdaman1 wrote:
Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they...

Is it just me or does the shaft on that DHX2 look larger diameter than standard? Could be perspective but I wouldn't be surprised if they had chosen to go in a similar direction to EXT due to yoke and trunnion mount issues

It’s just a dhx not dhx2

2
Jakub_G
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10/2/2023 10:30pm
luisgutrod wrote:
if that red knob is rebound, the shaft needs to be thicker as there has to be a hole to move fluid through it.. if the...

if that red knob is rebound, the shaft needs to be thicker as there has to be a hole to move fluid through it.. if the rebound circuit is on the piggyback, you can have a solid shaft and dont need it as thick  ? may be? I might be wrong.. anyhow, rebound there means this fox seems monotube then.. 

You are correct, single tube architecture on this one.

1
TannerVal
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10/3/2023 5:54am

https://bikerumor.com/spotted-maxxis-high-roller-iii-makes-the-dh-rounds/

Thank you for your patience if this has been covered already, but the supposed new High Roller III looks awfully a lot like a shorty

I wonder who gave them the name high roller 3 for that tire. Looks a lot closer to a shorty with assegai side knobs than it does to a high roller 2.

1
matmattmatthew
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10/3/2023 6:52am
watchcwgo wrote:
The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around...

The berd and pi rope spokes have a “rest” period where they lose tension much more than normal metal spokes. This is hard to work around in a race weekend. There is a way around it by pre stretching them on a machine. Avancini has been racing them the last 2 seasons in XCO and XCM and his wheels are around 1200g! 
 

Greg’s tire issues remind me of the 2005-10 era when Deemax rims were so stiff they would blow tires off or crack beads. I’m not sure if that’s exactly what’s going on with his setup, but the reserve DH are pretty stiff wheels.
 

Sam Hill running DT 5.1 XC race rims for race runs (not mavic but I couldn’t think of an example there) and the rims would be obliterated but the tires would stay attached. 

I'm getting ready to build a set of wheels for my hardtail with BERD spokes and there are a lot of negatives for Pro DH racers and mechanics.  As mentioned, they have a 24-hour rest period.  You bring them up to tension, leave them in the truing stand for 24 hours, and then re-tension them.  You also have to modify the hub's spoke flanges, you basically have to clean/deburr/open up the holes which makes them unusable for standard spokes after that.  I can't see mechanics (or hub sponsors) wanting to take the time to Dremel out a bunch of perfectly good hubs.  You can get hook-flange hubs made specifically for Berd spokes that don't require any modifications and make the lacing process a good bit faster.  But only 2-3 companies make hook-flange hubs, I'm planning to run Onyx hook-flange hubs on my build.  

3
stoic_machine
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10/3/2023 7:27am

On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on Conti Enduro casings with inserts only to peal my front and rear tire off the rim in different situations and scrambled to throw conti DH casings on the bike the night before. I decide to go sans inserts to try and get as much out the tire and see how things felt.

Honestly I won't be surprised if we start seeing racers not run inserts in full DH casings more and more if the DH tire casing tech keeps getting better like what Conti seems to have done with their new stuff. The tires feel better without inserts and higher tire pressure to fend off pinch flats doesn't seem to be affecting traction like I'm used to in the past. 

4-5 years ago the idea of DH casings on my all mountain/ Enduro weekend warrior rig would seem silly but now it seems like the kinda "set it and forget it" option... with the contis of course can't speak for the prototype maxxis of course.

So because this is a rumor mill aaaaaahhh rumour has it new maxxis stuff will be marketed as the tire that doesn't need an Insert and we see a big push in the market with other companies claiming the same thing.... oh and ISO rim bed standards being agreed upon by everyone. That'll be a game changer too.

 

4
10/3/2023 7:59am
On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on...

On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on Conti Enduro casings with inserts only to peal my front and rear tire off the rim in different situations and scrambled to throw conti DH casings on the bike the night before. I decide to go sans inserts to try and get as much out the tire and see how things felt.

Honestly I won't be surprised if we start seeing racers not run inserts in full DH casings more and more if the DH tire casing tech keeps getting better like what Conti seems to have done with their new stuff. The tires feel better without inserts and higher tire pressure to fend off pinch flats doesn't seem to be affecting traction like I'm used to in the past. 

4-5 years ago the idea of DH casings on my all mountain/ Enduro weekend warrior rig would seem silly but now it seems like the kinda "set it and forget it" option... with the contis of course can't speak for the prototype maxxis of course.

So because this is a rumor mill aaaaaahhh rumour has it new maxxis stuff will be marketed as the tire that doesn't need an Insert and we see a big push in the market with other companies claiming the same thing.... oh and ISO rim bed standards being agreed upon by everyone. That'll be a game changer too.

 

Curious to know what inserts you were running as I have had the completely opposite experience, with cushcore helping to keep my tires ON the rim.

the round noodle style inserts do seem to allow the tire to roll off the rim, while the cushcore almost clamps it on.

5
stoic_machine
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10/3/2023 8:44am
On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on...

On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on Conti Enduro casings with inserts only to peal my front and rear tire off the rim in different situations and scrambled to throw conti DH casings on the bike the night before. I decide to go sans inserts to try and get as much out the tire and see how things felt.

Honestly I won't be surprised if we start seeing racers not run inserts in full DH casings more and more if the DH tire casing tech keeps getting better like what Conti seems to have done with their new stuff. The tires feel better without inserts and higher tire pressure to fend off pinch flats doesn't seem to be affecting traction like I'm used to in the past. 

4-5 years ago the idea of DH casings on my all mountain/ Enduro weekend warrior rig would seem silly but now it seems like the kinda "set it and forget it" option... with the contis of course can't speak for the prototype maxxis of course.

So because this is a rumor mill aaaaaahhh rumour has it new maxxis stuff will be marketed as the tire that doesn't need an Insert and we see a big push in the market with other companies claiming the same thing.... oh and ISO rim bed standards being agreed upon by everyone. That'll be a game changer too.

 

Curious to know what inserts you were running as I have had the completely opposite experience, with cushcore helping to keep my tires ON the rim...

Curious to know what inserts you were running as I have had the completely opposite experience, with cushcore helping to keep my tires ON the rim.

the round noodle style inserts do seem to allow the tire to roll off the rim, while the cushcore almost clamps it on.

I just stick with Tannus as they have done their intended job of eating some very poor line choices and I dont blow my hands up doing tire swaps or trail side stuff with the Tannus insert like I do with cushcore. Aaaand they keep weight down compared to other options and that seems like a nice bonus when everything else to make your bike actually survive a season is just nickel and diming us on weight increases...

**Please God don't let this turn into a F*ing insert debate again**

 

But like I said the new conti DH stuff even in super soft didn't feel all that more shitty to pedal over the Enduro casings in soft compound with inserts so the ol saying of "keep it simple stupid" is rolling through with tire casing choices again for me and I'm into it.

2
sethimus
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10/3/2023 9:25am
I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be...

I’ve been curious about something.. How come DH racers aren’t running the rope spokes?? Seems like they would help in the compliance department.  Could it be that the teams don’t have a good understanding of them yet in regards to fine tuning or are they too fragile? I’m sure I’m missing the obvious not hopefully someone can enlighten me

jonkranked wrote:
Don't they take a lot longer to lace up than traditional spokes?  Given how often wc mechanics have to lace wheels to begin with, any extra...

Don't they take a lot longer to lace up than traditional spokes?  Given how often wc mechanics have to lace wheels to begin with, any extra time in that process is probably a non-starter. 

several days per wheel

Edthorne
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10/3/2023 9:56am
On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on...

On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on Conti Enduro casings with inserts only to peal my front and rear tire off the rim in different situations and scrambled to throw conti DH casings on the bike the night before. I decide to go sans inserts to try and get as much out the tire and see how things felt.

Honestly I won't be surprised if we start seeing racers not run inserts in full DH casings more and more if the DH tire casing tech keeps getting better like what Conti seems to have done with their new stuff. The tires feel better without inserts and higher tire pressure to fend off pinch flats doesn't seem to be affecting traction like I'm used to in the past. 

4-5 years ago the idea of DH casings on my all mountain/ Enduro weekend warrior rig would seem silly but now it seems like the kinda "set it and forget it" option... with the contis of course can't speak for the prototype maxxis of course.

So because this is a rumor mill aaaaaahhh rumour has it new maxxis stuff will be marketed as the tire that doesn't need an Insert and we see a big push in the market with other companies claiming the same thing.... oh and ISO rim bed standards being agreed upon by everyone. That'll be a game changer too.

 

Not a tech rumor, but I would say that inserts are pretty key with the conti's. I find they feel a bit pingy at higher pressures, and at lower pressures (sub 28psi out back) they seem to fold a lot even with inserts. 

Also just gonna say that I think tire companies should test tires in Quebec/eastern US. 

1
TannerVal
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Hampton, NH US
10/3/2023 10:05am
On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on...

On the topic of tires inserts and sidewalls. I just raced the Sunpeaks Enduro up here in Snow Mexico and I spent my practice day on Conti Enduro casings with inserts only to peal my front and rear tire off the rim in different situations and scrambled to throw conti DH casings on the bike the night before. I decide to go sans inserts to try and get as much out the tire and see how things felt.

Honestly I won't be surprised if we start seeing racers not run inserts in full DH casings more and more if the DH tire casing tech keeps getting better like what Conti seems to have done with their new stuff. The tires feel better without inserts and higher tire pressure to fend off pinch flats doesn't seem to be affecting traction like I'm used to in the past. 

4-5 years ago the idea of DH casings on my all mountain/ Enduro weekend warrior rig would seem silly but now it seems like the kinda "set it and forget it" option... with the contis of course can't speak for the prototype maxxis of course.

So because this is a rumor mill aaaaaahhh rumour has it new maxxis stuff will be marketed as the tire that doesn't need an Insert and we see a big push in the market with other companies claiming the same thing.... oh and ISO rim bed standards being agreed upon by everyone. That'll be a game changer too.

 

Edthorne wrote:
Not a tech rumor, but I would say that inserts are pretty key with the conti's. I find they feel a bit pingy at higher pressures...

Not a tech rumor, but I would say that inserts are pretty key with the conti's. I find they feel a bit pingy at higher pressures, and at lower pressures (sub 28psi out back) they seem to fold a lot even with inserts. 

Also just gonna say that I think tire companies should test tires in Quebec/eastern US. 

Interesting. I found I liked them a lot more with no inserts (previously ran tannus) and going up a couple psi front and rear (25 front, 28 rear). Paired with wa1 triads (nice thick rim bead that doesn’t snakebite tires) I haven’t managed to kill on and the ride feels great. The contis are an absolute Bitch to get on with cushcore in my experience too.

10/3/2023 10:17am
TannerVal wrote:
I wonder who gave them the name high roller 3 for that tire. Looks a lot closer to a shorty with assegai side knobs than it...

I wonder who gave them the name high roller 3 for that tire. Looks a lot closer to a shorty with assegai side knobs than it does to a high roller 2.

I think it was an excited tech editor that saw the 'spy shots' and decided to name the tire the High Roller 3. Don't think that's the name of it or the evolution line. It's so different it would be a marketing mistake for Maxxis to use the "High Roller' legacy name.  

3
10/3/2023 10:44am

There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their Instagram page hasn't had a new post in 6+ weeks now. Maybe their summer intern went back to school or their social media manager quit. Still... kinda odd.

bizutch
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10/3/2023 11:01am
Edthorne wrote:
Not a tech rumor, but I would say that inserts are pretty key with the conti's. I find they feel a bit pingy at higher pressures...

Not a tech rumor, but I would say that inserts are pretty key with the conti's. I find they feel a bit pingy at higher pressures, and at lower pressures (sub 28psi out back) they seem to fold a lot even with inserts. 

Also just gonna say that I think tire companies should test tires in Quebec/eastern US. 

Could just have 'em test at Platty, Bromont & Massanutten exclusively.

"Made it down w/ 18psi under 200lb rider on flat pedals?"
"Yes sir"
"We're going into production!"

3
10/3/2023 11:25am
There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their...

There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their Instagram page hasn't had a new post in 6+ weeks now. Maybe their summer intern went back to school or their social media manager quit. Still... kinda odd.

I can confirm that Sept 1st was their last day of operation...

Definitely sad to see a rad US brand taken from us too soon. 

4
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
10/3/2023 11:25am
There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their...

There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their Instagram page hasn't had a new post in 6+ weeks now. Maybe their summer intern went back to school or their social media manager quit. Still... kinda odd.

They did close. I would not be surprised if they are sold off to another company. But they did sell out of all their stock or a majority of it. Sad times. 

1
jonkranked
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10/3/2023 12:08pm
There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their...

There was speculation somewhere in this thread (and/or the Team Rumors thread?) that Guerilla Gravity might fold. I have no insider information, but noticed that their Instagram page hasn't had a new post in 6+ weeks now. Maybe their summer intern went back to school or their social media manager quit. Still... kinda odd.

They did close. I would not be surprised if they are sold off to another company. But they did sell out of all their stock or...

They did close. I would not be surprised if they are sold off to another company. But they did sell out of all their stock or a majority of it. Sad times. 

last i heard they were fulfilling any pending orders they could with available stock (for buyers that still wanted to), and that would be it. bummer for sure. 

1
sspomer
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10/3/2023 12:14pm

prototype demo without clothing! #allhailLawlor

PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-43PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44 2PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-44PHOTO-2023-10-03-13-08-45

52
earleb
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10/3/2023 12:26pm

Horst  dropout version of the Ancilotti pull link. 

14

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