Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in a similar manner to a spool valve, which supposedly is more suitable than a shim stack...
The new GasGas ebike is coming with DVO/WP suspension. Just ripping a quote right from Pinkbike cause I dont know anything about WP "The main feature...
The new GasGas ebike is coming with DVO/WP suspension. Just ripping a quote right from Pinkbike cause I dont know anything about WP "The main feature here is a cone valve that acts as a blow-off on hard impacts, without affecting the regular damping circuits. That valve can be adjusted externally via the HSC damping, with independent LSC and rebound accessible externally."
Anyone know anything about this company or this valve?
Its hard to find good drawings/explanations online about it, but it takes the place of a mid-valve or check valve on the rebound piston and instead...
Its hard to find good drawings/explanations online about it, but it takes the place of a mid-valve or check valve on the rebound piston and instead of being a flat shim against a few ports, it is a cone that sits inside a cup on the back of the piston and preloaded by a stiff spring. It generates more of the compression damping which would normally be done by the base valve in a fork and the shape of the cone can be changed for different characteristics. It gets a lot of hype on the moto side but its hard to tell how much of it is genuine or not. It needs quite different architecture for the whole damper though so it wouldn't be just changing the main piston, there would need to be a matching base valve to work properly too. Curious to see how much it resembles the moto version!
thanks for the explanation and the video. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. Hopefully it shows up on a few other bikes or as an aftermarket part so more folks can give it a shot
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? Since SRAM bought ATAC nothing at all has happened or been announced. It seems like the time would be right for them to finally get some new product to market.
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? ...
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? Since SRAM bought ATAC nothing at all has happened or been announced. It seems like the time would be right for them to finally get some new product to market.
Saw some pedals on Nate Hill's bike that looked different than any current time MTB pedal. Speciale 8 styling but completely different, more X shaped. Would speculate they are wanting to get rid of inventory before the new stuff releases.
Also apparently SRAM has new product releases lined up through the end of the year.
Any update on the Knolly prototypes that they were showing off a year ago or so? Haven’t been able to find anything since, but they looked pretty close to ready
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? ...
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? Since SRAM bought ATAC nothing at all has happened or been announced. It seems like the time would be right for them to finally get some new product to market.
Saw some pedals on Nate Hill's bike that looked different than any current time MTB pedal. Speciale 8 styling but completely different, more X shaped. Would...
Saw some pedals on Nate Hill's bike that looked different than any current time MTB pedal. Speciale 8 styling but completely different, more X shaped. Would speculate they are wanting to get rid of inventory before the new stuff releases.
Also apparently SRAM has new product releases lined up through the end of the year.
Thank you! I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for some new ATAC designs.
Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in...
Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in a similar manner to a spool valve, which supposedly is more suitable than a shim stack...
Yeah a spool valve was the other design I thought it was closest to, lots of variation is theoretically possible with it.
Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in...
Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in a similar manner to a spool valve, which supposedly is more suitable than a shim stack...
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is not affected by the fluid flow and pressure. The cone is going to be affected by flow and pressure.
The spool valve is affected by pressure (resulting from flow...) just like a cone valve as it's a capped off cylinder with ports in the cylindrical wall with a spring pushing on the capped surface. So when the oil pushes on the capped end surface, the spring gets compressed and moves the valve and thus opens the ports.
The manner the cone valve achieves this is a bit different to what the spool valve does, but the end result is very similar. You can change the spring under the cone or the angle of the cone with a given spring, but both cases will result in different rates of the valve opening under a given pressure. And result in different damping values.
Compared to a poppet valve, once the poppet valve is opened, the damping is more or less controlled only by the size of the ports. With the conical valve as the cone is moving away from the base surface the 'port' is opening up and you get less damping. Which is the same as with spool valves if you have a constant cross section of the port along the length of the valve. Though with spool valves you can play with the shape of the port, which makes it possible to achieve basically anything you want characteristics wise.
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is...
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is not affected by the fluid flow and pressure. The cone is going to be affected by flow and pressure.
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed positions, but everywhere in between as well based on the oil pressure, backing spring and cone shape?
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is...
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is not affected by the fluid flow and pressure. The cone is going to be affected by flow and pressure.
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed...
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed positions, but everywhere in between as well based on the oil pressure, backing spring and cone shape?
Yeah a poppet is basically open or closed, but a spool has much more of a variable opening. There are several different variations of a spring-on-plate type of valve that are usually lumped together as "poppets" but in reality are very different. As soon as there is a difference between the flow area the oil can pass through and the surface area the valve, you are able to get very different characteristics than just on or off, depending on how far the plate lifts. So an old float X2 or double barrel (and current CC shocks) base valves are the most like poppets, but the current X2 is not.
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is...
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is not affected by the fluid flow and pressure. The cone is going to be affected by flow and pressure.
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed...
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed positions, but everywhere in between as well based on the oil pressure, backing spring and cone shape?
Yeah a poppet is basically open or closed, but a spool has much more of a variable opening. There are several different variations of a spring-on-plate...
Yeah a poppet is basically open or closed, but a spool has much more of a variable opening. There are several different variations of a spring-on-plate type of valve that are usually lumped together as "poppets" but in reality are very different. As soon as there is a difference between the flow area the oil can pass through and the surface area the valve, you are able to get very different characteristics than just on or off, depending on how far the plate lifts. So an old float X2 or double barrel (and current CC shocks) base valves are the most like poppets, but the current X2 is not.
Push also uses a "shim-less" design for the high speed compression valve of their HC97 damper.
All that secrecy, and the button on the handlebar...makes me think this regular looking Öhlins shock is just a red herring for the photogs... (or there is something SUPER interesting going on with the linkage itself, like the pivot points moving with a servo motor or something like that...or Finn doesn't have the same shock that Loic does...)...
I think it's there just to close off the truss to prevent dirt build up.
That was my initial thought, but I cant see any witness marks on the tape from any lattice structure behind it. an open "I" beam structure wouldnt hold tape very well, as there wouldnt be much to stick to.
And youd think if they were taping it up for racing, theyd be re-thinking the idea as a (w)hole...
My understanding it is just covers for dirt because the bike is made from I-beams, which have large spaces for dirt to accumulate.
I've seen...
My understanding it is just covers for dirt because the bike is made from I-beams, which have large spaces for dirt to accumulate.
I've seen it in blue as well as gray/white
Yeah, looked like blue painters tape, now it looks like white hockey tape.
Hard to keep something stuck to that small space if it was an open "I" beam, wouldnt be much to stick it to, and I figure youd see imprints of an open lattice work if it was that.
Looks like that varying the angle of the cone and the cone seat could affect the damping characteristic as well, so it could be tuned in a similar manner to a spool valve, which supposedly is more suitable than a shim stack...
thanks for the explanation and the video. Will be interesting to see how it turns out. Hopefully it shows up on a few other bikes or as an aftermarket part so more folks can give it a shot
Raaw Madonna v3 is coming. More Infos 11. November
MSA pit bits photo gallery
https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/pit-bits-mont-sainte-anne-worl…
I just saw Time ATAC pedals at 50% off...including the speciales. Is that one site(universalcycles.com) dumping inventory or is there something new finally coming from ATAC? Since SRAM bought ATAC nothing at all has happened or been announced. It seems like the time would be right for them to finally get some new product to market.
Saw some pedals on Nate Hill's bike that looked different than any current time MTB pedal. Speciale 8 styling but completely different, more X shaped. Would speculate they are wanting to get rid of inventory before the new stuff releases.
Also apparently SRAM has new product releases lined up through the end of the year.
Any update on the Knolly prototypes that they were showing off a year ago or so? Haven’t been able to find anything since, but they looked pretty close to ready
Thank you! I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for some new ATAC designs.
Yeah a spool valve was the other design I thought it was closest to, lots of variation is theoretically possible with it.
Wish they’d offer a mullet, but they seem pretty against it. Always wanted a Raaw, but I’m fully drinking the bullet kook-aid.
Too bad it's patented for all vehicle applications by Multimatic :/
Is the WP Cone not just a larger poppet valve?
Spool valve would have a sliding surface across opening to seal it. Spool spool movement is not affected by the fluid flow and pressure. The cone is going to be affected by flow and pressure.
The spool valve is affected by pressure (resulting from flow...) just like a cone valve as it's a capped off cylinder with ports in the cylindrical wall with a spring pushing on the capped surface. So when the oil pushes on the capped end surface, the spring gets compressed and moves the valve and thus opens the ports.
The manner the cone valve achieves this is a bit different to what the spool valve does, but the end result is very similar. You can change the spring under the cone or the angle of the cone with a given spring, but both cases will result in different rates of the valve opening under a given pressure. And result in different damping values.
Compared to a poppet valve, once the poppet valve is opened, the damping is more or less controlled only by the size of the ports. With the conical valve as the cone is moving away from the base surface the 'port' is opening up and you get less damping. Which is the same as with spool valves if you have a constant cross section of the port along the length of the valve. Though with spool valves you can play with the shape of the port, which makes it possible to achieve basically anything you want characteristics wise.
Not sure if this is true, but in my mind, a poppet valve is either open or closed. Whereas the cone valve has open and closed positions, but everywhere in between as well based on the oil pressure, backing spring and cone shape?
Yeah a poppet is basically open or closed, but a spool has much more of a variable opening. There are several different variations of a spring-on-plate type of valve that are usually lumped together as "poppets" but in reality are very different. As soon as there is a difference between the flow area the oil can pass through and the surface area the valve, you are able to get very different characteristics than just on or off, depending on how far the plate lifts. So an old float X2 or double barrel (and current CC shocks) base valves are the most like poppets, but the current X2 is not.
Push also uses a "shim-less" design for the high speed compression valve of their HC97 damper.
After seeing Pink bike leak a similar picture, I’m officially in the “it’s all marketing at this point” camp
PB photo vs. my guess from June 20th. Pretty good if I do say so myself
Whats hiding under the tape on the gearbox bike?
think its a bit of carbon?
maybe some trellised CNC work like the swingarm?
consider this your pat on the back, well done
New Knolly Endorphin coming shortly
I think it's there just to close off the truss to prevent dirt build up.
My understanding it is just covers for dirt because the bike is made from I-beams, which have large spaces for dirt to accumulate.
I've seen it in blue as well as gray/white
All that secrecy, and the button on the handlebar...makes me think this regular looking Öhlins shock is just a red herring for the photogs... (or there is something SUPER interesting going on with the linkage itself, like the pivot points moving with a servo motor or something like that...or Finn doesn't have the same shock that Loic does...)...
Finn doesn't use the switch
Its been mentioned before, but Ohlins already have an active shock:
https://www.ohlins.com/products/ces/
https://www.ohlins.eu/en/products/motorcycle/ka-035--4364/
Scott team had them month ago, now Yeti also using Saint cranks with direct mount.
That was my initial thought, but I cant see any witness marks on the tape from any lattice structure behind it. an open "I" beam structure wouldnt hold tape very well, as there wouldnt be much to stick to.
And youd think if they were taping it up for racing, theyd be re-thinking the idea as a (w)hole...
Yeah, looked like blue painters tape, now it looks like white hockey tape.
Hard to keep something stuck to that small space if it was an open "I" beam, wouldnt be much to stick it to, and I figure youd see imprints of an open lattice work if it was that.
Who knows, maybe just a pop of colour
Yes! Though I'm pretty sure that there's more than one new model coming from Knolly shortly.
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