MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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4/13/2023 8:05am
Primoz wrote:
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's...

Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's really needed considering the grip issue you mention). Or towards more pad retraction.

Jakub_G wrote:
Hm, aren't there already plenty of pad manufacturers selling pads with varying CoF? And brake rotors with different designs? Like a lot of small holes vs...

Hm, aren't there already plenty of pad manufacturers selling pads with varying CoF? And brake rotors with different designs? Like a lot of small holes vs few big holes etc.

Holes don't really impact the situation that much, using a bigger rotor helps a lot more.

As for CoF, I was aiming at a paradigm shift, maybe using wholly different materials for the rotors or something like that. If possible. The idea was to for example double the CoF, that would allow pad retract to be twice as big or bigger than now and have a more linear brake characteristic which, based on Cascade comments, would make for a more predictable system with better modulation?

That or use a brake booster Tongue

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Primoz
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4/13/2023 8:10am
Primoz wrote:
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's...

Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's really needed considering the grip issue you mention). Or towards more pad retraction.

kcy4130 wrote:
I'd be surprised if any innovation in this area came from mtb. Automotive (and motorsports) spends a lot more on r&d for this than bike companies...

I'd be surprised if any innovation in this area came from mtb. Automotive (and motorsports) spends a lot more on r&d for this than bike companies ever could. 

Motorsports has a lot more tricks up their sleeves (carbon brakes for example). Motorsports isn't particularly relevant for either automotive or bicycle use though due to the nature of the use of the brakes (possibly applicable for DH if they could warm up their brakes...).

With automotive applications you either run a brake booster boosting the force applied to the master cylinder through the vacuum taken off the intake plenum, by a separate vacuum pump to drive the brake booster (early Teslas), electric brake booster (later teslas/EVs, once the production numbers got large enough for Tier1s to provide a system) or just use a brake by wire system.

TL;DR: automotive applications have multiple methods of increasing the power applied to the pedal itself which isn't applicable to bikes.

How does this problem look like with motor bikes? As far as I understand it one finger braking isn't really a thing with motorbikes?

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Mas
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4/13/2023 8:24am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2023 8:26am
TannerVal wrote:
 Completely new lever you were saying hasn’t been captured. Surprised no one seemed to cover it. (I posted this same picture on here like 2 weeks...

75B1814C-539F-4561-860D-533015068453.jpeg?VersionId=r49UNm

 Completely new lever you were saying hasn’t been captured. Surprised no one seemed to cover it. (I posted this same picture on here like 2 weeks ago)

Mas wrote:
Isn't that the new lever that's already out? Someone mentioned earlier it's just a "pushed back" Code RSC. The fat part looks just like my normal...

Isn't that the new lever that's already out? Someone mentioned earlier it's just a "pushed back" Code RSC. The fat part looks just like my normal Code RSC lever. 

Primoz wrote:

Looks a lot more like a DB8 lever with the swing link and contact point adjustment and rotated under the bar. 

Looks like an all black any-of-the-stealth levers to me. Which looks close to the normal Code SCR but "stealth".

 

old code 0

 

new code

 

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Primoz
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4/13/2023 8:34am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2023 8:36am

Definitely not the same lever:
image-20230413173410-1

The bleed port has a much bigger screw, in line with the DB8 master cylinder: 

The grommet for the hose is different, the general shape of the housing is different, sculpted differently, it's not just all black with the Code RSC being ground for the silver inlay.

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Jakub_G
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4/13/2023 8:35am
Primoz wrote:
Holes don't really impact the situation that much, using a bigger rotor helps a lot more. As for CoF, I was aiming at a paradigm shift...

Holes don't really impact the situation that much, using a bigger rotor helps a lot more.

As for CoF, I was aiming at a paradigm shift, maybe using wholly different materials for the rotors or something like that. If possible. The idea was to for example double the CoF, that would allow pad retract to be twice as big or bigger than now and have a more linear brake characteristic which, based on Cascade comments, would make for a more predictable system with better modulation?

That or use a brake booster Tongue

I've read before, that it is pretty simple to make pads with a lot higher CoF, but it always comes with drawback, like a lot of brake dust, noise, and obviously loss of modulation. The last point imho is only issue with some brake brands (Shimano) that have poor modulation to begin with or beginner riders. Other than that, you will adapt to new power level in matter of few minutes of braking. What would be and really should be normal is stating on pads that are available what CoF is, ideally with graph for CoF/temp. Relationship. Just like most motorsport brands do.

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4/13/2023 9:31am

I really think someone needs to dive into the brake by wire solution for MTB. We’re already adding electronics so it seems like a logical evolution.

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TEAMROBOT
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4/13/2023 12:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2023 12:23pm

Best Misting Fans: Best Portable, Handheld Misting Fans With Water –  Rolling Stone

You could boost your brake's abilities to shed heat by taping one of those handheld fans to your seatstay pointed at your brakes. Can't believe no one's tried that yet. Plus they come with a built-in watercooling feature, which is JDMAF.

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Noeserd
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4/13/2023 12:24pm

I really think someone needs to dive into the brake by wire solution for MTB. We’re already adding electronics so it seems like a logical evolution.

Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO. 

 

You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this isn't a car or a motorcycle where electricity is constantly generated. 

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Primoz
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4/13/2023 1:19pm

I really think someone needs to dive into the brake by wire solution for MTB. We’re already adding electronics so it seems like a logical evolution.

Noeserd wrote:
Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO.    You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this...

Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO. 

 

You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this isn't a car or a motorcycle where electricity is constantly generated. 

Eh, simple. Make them electrically unclamped so the failsafe is full braking force (kinda like pneumatic brakes on a truck). Problem solved.

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jofish
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4/13/2023 1:29pm

I think a lot of good sarcasm is being wasted on this thread. 

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Aksel_Lfft
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4/13/2023 1:34pm

I really think someone needs to dive into the brake by wire solution for MTB. We’re already adding electronics so it seems like a logical evolution.

Noeserd wrote:
Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO.    You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this...

Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO. 

 

You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this isn't a car or a motorcycle where electricity is constantly generated. 

Primoz wrote:

Eh, simple. Make them electrically unclamped so the failsafe is full braking force (kinda like pneumatic brakes on a truck). Problem solved.

hahaha can't wait to see you mid-run going "SpaceX" after your brakes decide to go full stop Laughing

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SteveClimber
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4/13/2023 4:36pm

I really think someone needs to dive into the brake by wire solution for MTB. We’re already adding electronics so it seems like a logical evolution.

Noeserd wrote:
Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO.    You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this...

Everything can be electrical on a bike but brakes are a NO GO. 

 

You can't afford to run out a battery on brakes and this isn't a car or a motorcycle where electricity is constantly generated. 

Primoz wrote:

Eh, simple. Make them electrically unclamped so the failsafe is full braking force (kinda like pneumatic brakes on a truck). Problem solved.

Since were all going to be riding E-bikes in 5 years anyway just use the engine braking as the failsafe, have the chain always moving, and the minute you stop pedalling it will turn the motor at the cranks into a generator, recharging your battery and slowing you down. Want to go faster? Just pedal, the minute you stop pedalling your start braking. 

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mntnmrtn
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4/13/2023 6:45pm
mntnmrtn wrote:
Oh that's an easy fix sir. Transmission was made to be simple to install for any customer and work well from the get go without complicated...

Oh that's an easy fix sir. Transmission was made to be simple to install for any customer and work well from the get go without complicated adjustments. It will adjust itself. Just tighten the axle properly, don't touch the wheel. If it seems to be rubbing, Transmission will push the dropout a little bit to create the necessary space it needs to work properly, and will keep this adjustment perfect forever. No need to play with shims or take out the grinder, just trust your new Transmission, go for an epic ride and enjoy your new trouble-free drivetrain.

chriskief wrote:
Solid advice. I’m sure the wheel drag will disappear within the first few miles. Once some pesky metal wears away. 

Solid advice. I’m sure the wheel drag will disappear within the first few miles. Once some pesky metal wears away. Laughing

My pleasure. Absolutely, it's engineered so that just the right amount of metal wears away to alleviate Tolerance Stacking.

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Primoz
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4/14/2023 7:13am

I think you two forgot about carbon also wearing away Tongue

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jsray
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4/14/2023 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 4/14/2023 12:42pm

Forbidden IG story has team photo with new bike

IMG 0058

 

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ShapeThings
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4/14/2023 3:03pm
jsray wrote:
Forbidden IG story has team photo with new bike    

Forbidden IG story has team photo with new bike

IMG 0058

 

I'm sure the new Forbidden flipped Horst-link (or whatever it is) functions better, but it definitely takes a hit aesthetically. 

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krabo83
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4/15/2023 1:54am
jsray wrote:
Forbidden IG story has team photo with new bike    

Forbidden IG story has team photo with new bike

IMG 0058

 

that bottom bracket area looks like it‘s housing a motor, way too massive!

4/15/2023 2:13pm Edited Date/Time 4/15/2023 2:13pm
peecee wrote:
 

IMG 8355.jpeg?VersionId=xh6YTXgLKgGmOLaHD

 

What brand is that? Doesn’t look like anything I could think of but has some similarities to a lot of current models

4/15/2023 2:21pm
peecee wrote:
 

IMG 8355.jpeg?VersionId=xh6YTXgLKgGmOLaHD

 

What brand is that? Doesn’t look like anything I could think of but has some similarities to a lot of current models

It's Yeti's DH prototype they teased a little while back. Open on their webiste too https://yeticycles.com/technology/special-projects (They also had a video with Richie riding it)

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4/15/2023 2:36pm
It's Yeti's DH prototype they teased a little while back. Open on their webiste too https://yeticycles.com/technology/special-projects (They also had a video with Richie riding it)

It's Yeti's DH prototype they teased a little while back. Open on their webiste too https://yeticycles.com/technology/special-projects (They also had a video with Richie riding it)

Ah yeah saw that. That’s why it was familiar

1
brash
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4/15/2023 4:52pm

Richie is in Aus racing the Oceania's

4/15/2023 6:36pm
The latest photos of the unreleased sram caliper, the black one that looks a bit like the original Code caliper. It seems to look quite different...

The latest photos of the unreleased sram caliper, the black one that looks a bit like the original Code caliper. It seems to look quite different from the previous prototype that was red with paint splat effect over it. The shapes around the pistons are different, the latest black one is flatter and the red one had some unusual looking shapes on it. The piston area had bulges in the middle that the latest black one doesn't have.

I'm guessing the current Code is staying and this will be released as a dh specific brake, but it's interesting that theres been no spy shots of any completely new lever designs to go with this new caliper.

I know the new code lever is different but its only changed to be closer to the bars, apparently the internals have not changed.

Does anyone know if the red one is still being spotted being tested out in the wild by pros? Anyone have any ideas on what the bulges on the red one were all about?

I'm hoping the eventual production version looks more like the red one but it seems the black one has a model name which suggests thats the version they are going with?

TannerVal wrote:
 Completely new lever you were saying hasn’t been captured. Surprised no one seemed to cover it. (I posted this same picture on here like 2 weeks...

75B1814C-539F-4561-860D-533015068453.jpeg?VersionId=r49UNm

 Completely new lever you were saying hasn’t been captured. Surprised no one seemed to cover it. (I posted this same picture on here like 2 weeks ago)

SRAM was very clear about this at the Transmission launch, the "new" brake levers have zero new technology. They had to move some things around and adjust for the new ergonomics and aesthetics, but internally, nothing has changed.

The new Code caliper is where the new tech will be

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Sir HC
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4/16/2023 2:08am

Where did the proto yeti photo go ?
 

Was out riding in Surrey hills yesterday and saw what I’d guess is a proto privateer, similar frame hardware, on proven wheels.

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peecee
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4/16/2023 2:43am

I was out shooting the Oceania Champs this weekend which Richie won by 4 seconds and 2nd was Sam Hill. 

Interesting setup by the looks of things, chainstay is attached to a link that goes through the frame. PROTO YETI by PC 1PROTO YETI by PC

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Jakub_G
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4/16/2023 3:51am
peecee wrote:
I was out shooting the Oceania Champs this weekend which Richie won by 4 seconds and 2nd was Sam Hill.  Interesting setup by the looks of...

I was out shooting the Oceania Champs this weekend which Richie won by 4 seconds and 2nd was Sam Hill. 

Interesting setup by the looks of things, chainstay is attached to a link that goes through the frame. PROTO YETI by PC 1PROTO YETI by PC

And trophy for the most useless fender goes toooooo......Yeti

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Primoz
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4/16/2023 4:09am

It's there to prevent muck from going into the frame, surrounding the dogbone link.

@peecee we've talked about this proto quite a bit, it's a DH version of the 160e bike, there's a link going vertically (-ish) between the bottom short link and the rocker. And your photos confirm that.

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