Hey Jerry,
Seems like its the black version thats going forward then... you wouldn't happen to have noticed if any of them were running a new...
Hey Jerry,
Seems like its the black version thats going forward then... you wouldn't happen to have noticed if any of them were running a new brake lever?
Ever since the Trickstuff and Cascade boutique stuff came on the scene, I've thought it was only a matter of time until sram made a brake that could at least equal the supposed power of trickstuff but at a more realistic price point.
I run the Cascade North Fork calipers and they do feel more powerful, but I wouldn't say its an enormous night and day difference. I've never tried the Trickstuff Maximas but do wonder how much better they can really be.
The fact that Cascade basically just made a caliper using larger pistons to be used with the code lever, I've always been expecting Sram to simply do the same with something mass produced and probably kill off Cascades caliper. Nothing stopping them from doing it...
The new black caliper does somehow look a lot bigger than the current code caliper. I'm wondering how big those pistons will be.
I've got to say I've always expected a new Code caliper to pop up that does the same thing as ours. Hasn't happened yet. Kind of...
I've got to say I've always expected a new Code caliper to pop up that does the same thing as ours. Hasn't happened yet. Kind of funny considering it's specifically designed to work with Sram parts you can find in bike shops. Whatever this new Sram brake is will determine the future of our Code caliper.
I think the upper limit on brake power will be set by what is a reasonable amount of pad retract. I can't foresee people being okay with pad rub all the time so I don't think pad retract can get much less that what we use on our calipers. If you assume all calipers can be fitted with pads that have the best possible stopping power, braking power then just becomes a ratio of piston area to master cylinder area. The larger you make that ratio the more lever throw you have for a given pad retract. The only way to keep lever throw in check with a larger ratio is decreasing pad retract. Stuff like Swinglink can help, but the more aggressively you make it move through low end braking the more hand fatigue you get riding trails where you're trailing the brakes a lot. This is something we are pretty transparent about with our brake cams. You could potentially have a brake caliper with higher ultimate braking power than another that actually results in a higher average finger force in typical riding conditions. That's when this sort of mechanism would have gone too far. Max braking might be a 3000ish psi but more often than not you're at 1/2 to 3/4 of that. It's really only accessible when you're braking in a compression or the wheels just lock up.
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's...
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's really needed considering the grip issue you mention). Or towards more pad retraction.
I have 2 sets of TS brakes and some others.
The TS brakes are great if you can deal with the struggles of getting parts from Germany etc.
But what I'd tell you is that at least 70% of the magic is in the TS pads. There is nothing else like them.
Is that a weight taped under the bb? And a storage door on the bottom of the down tube?
most likely just a bolt on DT protector. lower shock mount could possibly be open through the DT for access, so perhaps its just some foam to keep dirt out.
I've got to say I've always expected a new Code caliper to pop up that does the same thing as ours. Hasn't happened yet. Kind of...
I've got to say I've always expected a new Code caliper to pop up that does the same thing as ours. Hasn't happened yet. Kind of funny considering it's specifically designed to work with Sram parts you can find in bike shops. Whatever this new Sram brake is will determine the future of our Code caliper.
I think the upper limit on brake power will be set by what is a reasonable amount of pad retract. I can't foresee people being okay with pad rub all the time so I don't think pad retract can get much less that what we use on our calipers. If you assume all calipers can be fitted with pads that have the best possible stopping power, braking power then just becomes a ratio of piston area to master cylinder area. The larger you make that ratio the more lever throw you have for a given pad retract. The only way to keep lever throw in check with a larger ratio is decreasing pad retract. Stuff like Swinglink can help, but the more aggressively you make it move through low end braking the more hand fatigue you get riding trails where you're trailing the brakes a lot. This is something we are pretty transparent about with our brake cams. You could potentially have a brake caliper with higher ultimate braking power than another that actually results in a higher average finger force in typical riding conditions. That's when this sort of mechanism would have gone too far. Max braking might be a 3000ish psi but more often than not you're at 1/2 to 3/4 of that. It's really only accessible when you're braking in a compression or the wheels just lock up.
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's...
Anybody working on increasing the friction coefficient between the pads and the rotor? Seems like this would be a possible path towards more power (if it's really needed considering the grip issue you mention). Or towards more pad retraction.
I have 2 sets of TS brakes and some others.
The TS brakes are great if you can deal with the struggles of getting parts...
I have 2 sets of TS brakes and some others.
The TS brakes are great if you can deal with the struggles of getting parts from Germany etc.
But what I'd tell you is that at least 70% of the magic is in the TS pads. There is nothing else like them.
Have you tried Galfer green (race compound I think) pads? Ran those on MT7s for one park day and swapped them for the galfer ebike pads because they were too powerful.
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on...
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on seeing 38mm forks slapped on any bike with 160mm.
Also, I wonder what is happening with norco bikes. It seemed like a new optic or sight would be out by now.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on...
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on seeing 38mm forks slapped on any bike with 160mm.
Also, I wonder what is happening with norco bikes. It seemed like a new optic or sight would be out by now.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took...
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
Can’t quite tell what you’re saying about the 36 & 38 but the 36 can still take a 170 air spring in case anyone is wondering
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on...
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on seeing 38mm forks slapped on any bike with 160mm.
Also, I wonder what is happening with norco bikes. It seemed like a new optic or sight would be out by now.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took...
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took...
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
I think the issue is that above 160mm the stanchion to lower leg overlap starts to allow for quite a bit more flex and that’s obviously where the advantage of the stiffer bigger fork comes in.
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on...
New Tyee would be cool, if it had an option to come with a lyrik or 36 I’d be all over it. Kinda burnt out on seeing 38mm forks slapped on any bike with 160mm.
Also, I wonder what is happening with norco bikes. It seemed like a new optic or sight would be out by now.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took...
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
Can’t quite tell what you’re saying about the 36 & 38 but the 36 can still take a 170 air spring in case anyone is wondering
Didn't know about that one, but the writing is on the wall. Like I said, the old Lyrik went up to 180 mm. The MY23 doesn't offer that. I wouldn't be surprised if a bigger update to the 36 also cuts the 170 mm option as the 36 is now specced on 140 and 150 mm bikes (just like the Lyrik).
I mean... Back in 2015 I was riding a 160 mm Pike. And what is the maximum travel of a Pike these days?
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.
The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA
It works great, at least on paper. Sadly, all the parts that are stacked in vvc mechanism have to be made to tighter tolerances than fox...
It works great, at least on paper. Sadly, all the parts that are stacked in vvc mechanism have to be made to tighter tolerances than fox is capable of doing, so in real world the leading shim either has preload(at least in this case it has tuning range)or float(in which case high speed adjuster does next to nothing and overall damping is also very soft. If some really high end manufacturer like ext of bos came up with this mechanism I would believe they are capable of keeping the tolerances tight enough, but with fox? Forget it, only hight end thing about fox is their marketing. Oh, and prices lol.
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC clicker my impression was that he only dyno’d one damper. I’m wondering if the same results have been found on other Grip 2 dampers? It’s seems that the one he tested suffered from an incorrect stack height, but do they all? What does the curve look like on one assembled correctly? Why didn’t Steve correct the stack height by adding or removing some spacers and find out? I know on my 36 grip2 the HSC knob doesn’t do jack squat, so I am guessing Fox just overlooked this and all suffer from the same flaw but seems weird.
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC...
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC clicker my impression was that he only dyno’d one damper. I’m wondering if the same results have been found on other Grip 2 dampers? It’s seems that the one he tested suffered from an incorrect stack height, but do they all? What does the curve look like on one assembled correctly? Why didn’t Steve correct the stack height by adding or removing some spacers and find out? I know on my 36 grip2 the HSC knob doesn’t do jack squat, so I am guessing Fox just overlooked this and all suffer from the same flaw but seems weird.
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super soft. The shims are also 4mm, and there isn't enough stack height to add shims without losing LSC range anyway. So its a good idea, just not the best execution IMO
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC...
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC clicker my impression was that he only dyno’d one damper. I’m wondering if the same results have been found on other Grip 2 dampers? It’s seems that the one he tested suffered from an incorrect stack height, but do they all? What does the curve look like on one assembled correctly? Why didn’t Steve correct the stack height by adding or removing some spacers and find out? I know on my 36 grip2 the HSC knob doesn’t do jack squat, so I am guessing Fox just overlooked this and all suffer from the same flaw but seems weird.
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super...
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super soft. The shims are also 4mm, and there isn't enough stack height to add shims without losing LSC range anyway. So its a good idea, just not the best execution IMO
The damping on a Grip 2 is about the static friction of the seals on the fork.
Less than ideal.
It's strange that there isn't a consensus still about damping rates, some pro's still ride fully open, other on Ohlins have a magnitude more damping. Poor Fox DH riders just have to rely on the spring to hold them up, hence the 6 tokens and huge pressure to stop it collapsing through compressions.
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC...
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC clicker my impression was that he only dyno’d one damper. I’m wondering if the same results have been found on other Grip 2 dampers? It’s seems that the one he tested suffered from an incorrect stack height, but do they all? What does the curve look like on one assembled correctly? Why didn’t Steve correct the stack height by adding or removing some spacers and find out? I know on my 36 grip2 the HSC knob doesn’t do jack squat, so I am guessing Fox just overlooked this and all suffer from the same flaw but seems weird.
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super...
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super soft. The shims are also 4mm, and there isn't enough stack height to add shims without losing LSC range anyway. So its a good idea, just not the best execution IMO
The damping on a Grip 2 is about the static friction of the seals on the fork.
Less than ideal.
It's strange that there isn't a...
The damping on a Grip 2 is about the static friction of the seals on the fork.
Less than ideal.
It's strange that there isn't a consensus still about damping rates, some pro's still ride fully open, other on Ohlins have a magnitude more damping. Poor Fox DH riders just have to rely on the spring to hold them up, hence the 6 tokens and huge pressure to stop it collapsing through compressions.
There is a good thread on MTBR about grip2 at the moment, I can attest to running way too much pressure on my 180mm 38 but I also like a linear fork so 0 spacers. I have a factory 38.
I swapped over to a performance fork (Fit Grip Sweep damper) while my CSU is getting warrantied, I preferred it much more. Simple and effective compression adjustment that actually works (less requirement for a million psi) and the LSR just works fine.
I would be guessing it's compression damper assembly for fork with coil backed ifp (weird looking one and without coil installed). Interesting for sure.
So, it's an ebike called the Roczen and it has a water bottle nestled between frame tubes near the head tube... Just like a motorcycle's fuel tank (especially a trials moto's fuel tank). Huh.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took...
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
Didn't know about that one, but the writing is on the wall. Like I said, the old Lyrik went up to 180 mm. The MY23 doesn't...
Didn't know about that one, but the writing is on the wall. Like I said, the old Lyrik went up to 180 mm. The MY23 doesn't offer that. I wouldn't be surprised if a bigger update to the 36 also cuts the 170 mm option as the 36 is now specced on 140 and 150 mm bikes (just like the Lyrik).
I mean... Back in 2015 I was riding a 160 mm Pike. And what is the maximum travel of a Pike these days?
I'm still riding a 160mm pike on my hardtail, just about to send it in for a service! if it ain't broke, don't make the stanchions bigger
I have 2 sets of TS brakes and some others.
The TS brakes are great if you can deal with the struggles of getting parts from Germany etc.
But what I'd tell you is that at least 70% of the magic is in the TS pads. There is nothing else like them.
most likely just a bolt on DT protector. lower shock mount could possibly be open through the DT for access, so perhaps its just some foam to keep dirt out.
Have you tried Galfer green (race compound I think) pads? Ran those on MT7s for one park day and swapped them for the galfer ebike pads because they were too powerful.
Interesting; looks like a Tues but I guess there's nothing special under patent with those
Suuure, some people got a lot more serious things to solve, like custom water bottles L O L tiger.
The Lyrik has been relegated to a max of 160 mm travel with MY23, the previous one did also come in 180 mm. The Zeb took that place (the Zeb goes all the way from 150 mm to 190 mm). I'm sure people want the bigger, better fork (if it makes sense or not is a different story), but at the end of the day, the Tyee also became a 170 mm fork bike. So there isn't a Lyrik to fit that niche anymore... Same goes for the 36 and the 38.
RFX36 still comes in 170mm.
Can’t quite tell what you’re saying about the 36 & 38 but the 36 can still take a 170 air spring in case anyone is wondering
Where are the pictures of the new Push fork??!
Or 180mm with the Z1
Can the Z1 take a grip2 damper?
I think the issue is that above 160mm the stanchion to lower leg overlap starts to allow for quite a bit more flex and that’s obviously where the advantage of the stiffer bigger fork comes in.
Mondraker says "Hold my cerveza"
that‘s actually a sensor, not a fender. rtfm.
Didn't know about that one, but the writing is on the wall. Like I said, the old Lyrik went up to 180 mm. The MY23 doesn't offer that. I wouldn't be surprised if a bigger update to the 36 also cuts the 170 mm option as the 36 is now specced on 140 and 150 mm bikes (just like the Lyrik).
I mean... Back in 2015 I was riding a 160 mm Pike. And what is the maximum travel of a Pike these days?
Jakob,
When Steve at Vorsprung dyno’d the Grip 2 VVC damper and produced an essentially flat curve from full open to shut on the HSC clicker my impression was that he only dyno’d one damper. I’m wondering if the same results have been found on other Grip 2 dampers? It’s seems that the one he tested suffered from an incorrect stack height, but do they all? What does the curve look like on one assembled correctly? Why didn’t Steve correct the stack height by adding or removing some spacers and find out? I know on my 36 grip2 the HSC knob doesn’t do jack squat, so I am guessing Fox just overlooked this and all suffer from the same flaw but seems weird.
GAFL
They are basically all like that.....even perfectly assembled they are extremely soft. Or if there is too much preload they will be harsh but still super soft. The shims are also 4mm, and there isn't enough stack height to add shims without losing LSC range anyway. So its a good idea, just not the best execution IMO
The damping on a Grip 2 is about the static friction of the seals on the fork.
Less than ideal.
It's strange that there isn't a consensus still about damping rates, some pro's still ride fully open, other on Ohlins have a magnitude more damping. Poor Fox DH riders just have to rely on the spring to hold them up, hence the 6 tokens and huge pressure to stop it collapsing through compressions.
There is a good thread on MTBR about grip2 at the moment, I can attest to running way too much pressure on my 180mm 38 but I also like a linear fork so 0 spacers. I have a factory 38.
I swapped over to a performance fork (Fit Grip Sweep damper) while my CSU is getting warrantied, I preferred it much more. Simple and effective compression adjustment that actually works (less requirement for a million psi) and the LSR just works fine.
Push fork, damper, spring kit?
I would be guessing it's compression damper assembly for fork with coil backed ifp (weird looking one and without coil installed). Interesting for sure.
These maybe ?
Cushcore Trail on the way
https://www.pinkbike.com/video/577482/
and with a coil (smashpot or aCS3) ; )
The name of this thing is Roczen
So it comes with a kickstart?
Wow that's a very weird looking Vittoria Barzo...
So, it's an ebike called the Roczen and it has a water bottle nestled between frame tubes near the head tube... Just like a motorcycle's fuel tank (especially a trials moto's fuel tank). Huh.
I'm still riding a 160mm pike on my hardtail, just about to send it in for a service! if it ain't broke, don't make the stanchions bigger
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