MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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ShapeThings
Posts
31
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Emeryville, CA US
4/7/2023 4:41pm
Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second?    OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy...

Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second? Screenshot 20230407-170938.png?VersionId=cBBYby.mh

 

OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy colors. 

Maybe the most absurd thing I've ever seen. I'm not against small batch, boutique parts, but anyone spending that money on something so frivilous needs to be audited and forced into buying food for the needy or something. 

25
4/7/2023 9:53pm
Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second?    OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy...

Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second? Screenshot 20230407-170938.png?VersionId=cBBYby.mh

 

OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy colors. 

Maybe the most absurd thing I've ever seen. I'm not against small batch, boutique parts, but anyone spending that money on something so frivilous needs to...

Maybe the most absurd thing I've ever seen. I'm not against small batch, boutique parts, but anyone spending that money on something so frivilous needs to be audited and forced into buying food for the needy or something. 

And you know some bloated consultant that rides 8 hours a year is going to buy it and crush his bottom bracket torquing it on with the longest wrench he can find. 

7
Dev_Konors
Posts
2
Joined
7/4/2018
Location
Seaford , VIC AU
4/7/2023 11:08pm
crgcrmny wrote:
Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..  

Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..A6AB8B69-50ED-4CA8-83D5-0302304ECD0A

 

Screenshot 20230408-160417

 Screenshot 20230408-160442.jpg?VersionId=3UdhqcQr

 Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

2
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
4/8/2023 5:05am
 New Bike from Revel? 

Screenshot 20230407-230558

 New Bike from Revel? 

Losifer wrote:

Wouldn't surprise me if they update the geo on the Rascal.

Rascal is due for an update but fwiw a dealer told me it's an updated Ranger...

2
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
4/8/2023 5:08am
crgcrmny wrote:
Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..  

Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..A6AB8B69-50ED-4CA8-83D5-0302304ECD0A

 

Dev_Konors wrote:
   Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

Screenshot 20230408-160417

 Screenshot 20230408-160442.jpg?VersionId=3UdhqcQr

 Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

Both versions have been seen, the screen caps of Killian Bron's Meta I posted up-thread show headset routing...

1
TannerVal
Posts
118
Joined
2/6/2016
Location
Hampton, NH US
4/8/2023 6:35am
Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second?    OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy...

Can we talk about how this sport has completely jumped the shark for a second? Screenshot 20230407-170938.png?VersionId=cBBYby.mh

 

OEM parts is $4. This doesn't even come in blingy colors. 

Why anyone would buy that at that price is completely beyond me. Ceramicspeed can get f’d, burgtec makes the same product, in a variety of colors (and are a way cooler company) for $10.

https://burgtec.co.uk/product/shimano-crank-bolt/#

8
w4s
Posts
201
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Verdi, NV US
4/8/2023 8:12am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2023 9:31am
crgcrmny wrote:
Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..  

Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..A6AB8B69-50ED-4CA8-83D5-0302304ECD0A

 

Dev_Konors wrote:
   Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

Screenshot 20230408-160417

 Screenshot 20230408-160442.jpg?VersionId=3UdhqcQr

 Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

dolface wrote:

Both versions have been seen, the screen caps of Killian Bron's Meta I posted up-thread show headset routing...

I believe he's riding a tempo in that screenshot, forget where I saw it be he was remarking how good the short travel bike was on aggressive trails.

codahale
Posts
21
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Fort Collins, CO US
4/8/2023 9:56am
TannerVal wrote:
Why anyone would buy that at that price is completely beyond me. Ceramicspeed can get f’d, burgtec makes the same product, in a variety of colors...

Why anyone would buy that at that price is completely beyond me. Ceramicspeed can get f’d, burgtec makes the same product, in a variety of colors (and are a way cooler company) for $10.

https://burgtec.co.uk/product/shimano-crank-bolt/#

Did y’all just now hear about CeramicSpeed or what? You think $40 for crank bolts is outrageous, definitely don’t read about their $2K pulley cages. Folks buy the $40 crank bolts so other people have an easier time seeing they also bought the $400 bottom bracket.

8
4/8/2023 11:29am
crgcrmny wrote:
Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..  

Looks like Headset routing for the new Meta..A6AB8B69-50ED-4CA8-83D5-0302304ECD0A

 

Dev_Konors wrote:
   Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

Screenshot 20230408-160417

 Screenshot 20230408-160442.jpg?VersionId=3UdhqcQr

 Old news and still probably in prototype phase but this even says META 2023 on top tube.

There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The second team, Commencal les Orres, seams to be on new Frames with new Sram stuff and headset cable routing. There is a bike check on insta that clearly shows the new Frame.

 

Screenshot 20230408-201554 Firefox.jpg?VersionId=cN

I'm quiet sure that this will be the production frame.

For me the meta V5 is one of the most interesting new bikes of the year, but I'm not sure if I want a bike with headset cable routing, because I want a normal dropperpost and a normal shimano drive train.

12
4/8/2023 11:17pm
There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The...

There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The second team, Commencal les Orres, seams to be on new Frames with new Sram stuff and headset cable routing. There is a bike check on insta that clearly shows the new Frame.

 

Screenshot 20230408-201554 Firefox.jpg?VersionId=cN

I'm quiet sure that this will be the production frame.

For me the meta V5 is one of the most interesting new bikes of the year, but I'm not sure if I want a bike with headset cable routing, because I want a normal dropperpost and a normal shimano drive train.

You wont need to worry about the headset routing as The shop will deal with it when they replaced the cracked frame

note: ive broken 3 commencals in a year.

17
4/9/2023 1:47am
There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The...

There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The second team, Commencal les Orres, seams to be on new Frames with new Sram stuff and headset cable routing. There is a bike check on insta that clearly shows the new Frame.

 

Screenshot 20230408-201554 Firefox.jpg?VersionId=cN

I'm quiet sure that this will be the production frame.

For me the meta V5 is one of the most interesting new bikes of the year, but I'm not sure if I want a bike with headset cable routing, because I want a normal dropperpost and a normal shimano drive train.

You wont need to worry about the headset routing as The shop will deal with it when they replaced the cracked frame note: ive broken 3...

You wont need to worry about the headset routing as The shop will deal with it when they replaced the cracked frame

note: ive broken 3 commencals in a year.

Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no comparison. All of their frames appear to be quite burly and overbuild. I know that a lot of old supreme frames failed, but is this also the case in the meta range?

4/9/2023 6:56am
There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The...

There are two Commencal Teams racing EDR Worldcup, the Enduro Project Team is still on last years prototype with TRP Components and normal cable routing. The second team, Commencal les Orres, seams to be on new Frames with new Sram stuff and headset cable routing. There is a bike check on insta that clearly shows the new Frame.

 

Screenshot 20230408-201554 Firefox.jpg?VersionId=cN

I'm quiet sure that this will be the production frame.

For me the meta V5 is one of the most interesting new bikes of the year, but I'm not sure if I want a bike with headset cable routing, because I want a normal dropperpost and a normal shimano drive train.

You wont need to worry about the headset routing as The shop will deal with it when they replaced the cracked frame note: ive broken 3...

You wont need to worry about the headset routing as The shop will deal with it when they replaced the cracked frame

note: ive broken 3 commencals in a year.

Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no...

Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no comparison. All of their frames appear to be quite burly and overbuild. I know that a lot of old supreme frames failed, but is this also the case in the meta range?

I know a lot of people with great Commencal frames. I had a supreme with no issues and  Currently riding the new V5 supreme also.

I’m not sure if they are “overbuilt”, it depends what you are comparing them to?

dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
4/9/2023 9:04am

Anyone heard anything about new Fox stuff coming to market? They've got the RAD electronic shock in active development and new fork damper they were testing a while back. GRIP2 is ~5 years old and probably due for a refresh...

7
Noeserd
Posts
185
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
TR
4/9/2023 2:19pm
dolface wrote:
Anyone heard anything about new Fox stuff coming to market? They've got the RAD electronic shock in active development and new fork damper they were testing...

Anyone heard anything about new Fox stuff coming to market? They've got the RAD electronic shock in active development and new fork damper they were testing a while back. GRIP2 is ~5 years old and probably due for a refresh...

GRIP 2 IS 5 YEARS OLD??!?!?!?

Damn i'm getting old

5
4/9/2023 3:17pm
Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no...

Is the quality of the frames so bad? I have never owned a commencal bike and non of my friends owns one, so I have no comparison. All of their frames appear to be quite burly and overbuild. I know that a lot of old supreme frames failed, but is this also the case in the meta range?

I cracked 2 2022 META TR's at the top/front shock mount
snapped an SX on the chainstay... same as this(not mine)I snapped my Meta SX : commencal (reddit.com)

4/9/2023 3:23pm
sspomer wrote:
from the transmission PDF - "This chainring uses our T-Type design and is backwards compatible with Eagle technology (X-SYNC II)." BUT, this is only described on...

from the transmission PDF - "This chainring uses our T-Type design and is backwards compatible with Eagle technology (X-SYNC II)."

BUT, this is only described on an e-bike chainring page. it is not mentioned on other product pages in the PDF.

Screen Shot 2023-04-06 at 10.47.51 AM.png?VersionId=CFFTAebr60e6Mb01j

 

Had a chat with a sram guy and he cleared this up for me - big issue with running new chainring and crankset with old eagle cassette is suboptimal chain line, the new chain is also not advised with the original eagle because the oversized roller will wear out the o.g. Eagle significantly quicker.

2
4/9/2023 11:10pm
Sir HC wrote:
katana wrote:
Maybe something like this, on the shop side there’s a bicycle section without products. The site is supremetechnology.eu .   

Maybe something like this, on the shop side there’s a bicycle section without products. The site is supremetechnology.eu . 61D6AF20-3651-4E5C-84B2-42D4610A8AF1

 

There’s a good thread on VitalMX about interters. https://countershox.com/2022/02/11/how-does-countershox-work/
 

some guys said they bought them and will test. I wonder if the product would work better or less noticeable on a lighter mountain bike?

TEAMROBOT
Posts
721
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
Fantasy
371st
4/9/2023 11:25pm

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

10
Jakub_G
Posts
223
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
4/10/2023 4:29am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

It works great, at least on paper. Sadly, all the parts that are stacked in vvc mechanism have to be made to tighter tolerances than fox is capable of doing, so in real world the leading shim either has preload(at least in this case it has tuning range)or float(in which case high speed adjuster does next to nothing and overall damping is also very soft. If some really high end manufacturer like ext of bos came up with this mechanism I would believe they are capable of keeping the tolerances tight enough, but with fox? Forget it, only hight end thing about fox is their marketing. Oh, and prices lol.

10
1
Primoz
Posts
3543
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
783rd
4/10/2023 11:06am

I think Fox actually patented the VVC adjusters, so there's a reason nobody else uses it.

2
BigNubbs
Posts
7
Joined
2/7/2015
Location
Mount Shasta, CA US
4/10/2023 12:36pm

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

7
earleb
Posts
161
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
225th
4/10/2023 1:47pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster...

The Fox GRIP2 damper looks 5 years old, but it got a pretty important update that flew under the radar when they did the VVC adjuster inside the damper 3 years ago. Unfortunately, the knobs on the outside look the same so you can't tell it's different, but it's a pretty clever invention that allows them to fine tune their high speed rebound and compression shims in place on the damper rod without preloading them. The original GRIP2 damper (and lots of other fork dampers in lots of other brands) use the high speed knobs (on compression or rebound) to adjust preload on shims. This achieves the goal of increasing damping force through those shims but it doesn't do so evenly across the speed range, creating a digressive damper tune for heavier riders. Digressive means lots of damping force until you overcome the preload, then it blows wide open. Not ideal, but a pretty common way to deliver adjustable high speed damping for customers that doesn't require taking apart the damper and installing rider-specific shim stacks.

The VVC damper doesn't preload the shims, it actually changes their spring rate via a knob, which allows heavier riders to run more high speed damping AND have it more consistent across various shaft speeds. Think of preloading a coil spring versus changing coil springs- one is much more effective at tuning spring rate than the other. I haven't ridden one, but I love the thinking, and I don't know of another damper that can do what the VVC adjusters do. If you're curious, there's a pretty good video from Fox explaining how they work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krLP9cawQAA

Ohlins does this with their variable clamp design in the TTX18. In the TTX18 they don't preload the HS stack with a spring they change the OD of the clamp shim. I have not seen a good picture showing how they do it.

Changing the OD of the clamp shim makes the slope steeper. They way others do it with the spring pre-load keeps the slope the same but moves the whole curve up. 

2
chriskief
Posts
377
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
Fantasy
243rd
4/10/2023 2:04pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

4
BigNubbs
Posts
7
Joined
2/7/2015
Location
Mount Shasta, CA US
4/10/2023 2:49pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

1
kashima_nuts
Posts
52
Joined
1/23/2022
Location
Denver, CO US
Fantasy
2196th
4/10/2023 4:58pm
BigNubbs wrote:
They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024. It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter. Some new things going...

They've been working on the re-release of the Float X2 for 2024.

It's going to be much better they're hoping. Sea otter.

Some new things going on in the base valve, new bearing design, some new tunes, new trunnion eyelet that is thicker at the body threads. Like the old 2020 float x2 design. 7000 series bodies to prevent cracking on Trunnion. Hardend steel damper shafts I think for both x2 dampers.

Haven't heard of new fork/vvc stuff for 2024.

chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

BigNubbs wrote:

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds like it's a different tune and I really liked the existing tune that came stock on my bike. They said they will pick a tune that closely matches as possible (given the new valving) - I hope it's not much different. 

1
samlr
Posts
35
Joined
12/14/2017
Location
CA
4/11/2023 8:05am
chriskief wrote:
A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from...

A friend received one recently as a warranty. Supposedly addresses the trunnion issues. The label has a few new codes on it which are different from the 22/23 model.

fox.jpg?VersionId=qEQXqHYt4JYvUkKlouDumer1bpe

 

BigNubbs wrote:

Nice! Yeah that's the new new 2024. Should last much longer between services.

Haven't had any time on mine yet. Winter.

I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds...

I got a call from their warranty dept today saying that they wanted to swap to the new 2024 as well. Only downside is it sounds like it's a different tune and I really liked the existing tune that came stock on my bike. They said they will pick a tune that closely matches as possible (given the new valving) - I hope it's not much different. 

It is not much different. I've been testing a few new tune this winter and to be honest my bike feel better. 

2
26aintdead
Posts
18
Joined
10/19/2022
Location
Rossland, BC CA
4/11/2023 9:50am

anybody have any new insights about the release date of the new boxxer / vivid?

4/11/2023 10:28am

I noticed a change to the Trek Session Factory bikes in a video they just posted.

Looks like like the chainstay pivot isn’t a full cnc unit like in the past. Maybe a brace that could be changed for stiffness.

F77EBC80-27BA-41F2-9944-CB53FA733240

 

16

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