The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like that. Just provide him warranty service, no more no less... Rather than being a twit about it and then rescinding the offer.
Using an open truss design like that for a crank is ridiculously stupid anyway. It's objectively bad engineering, the section is unable to deal with torsion efficiently and the stress concentrations will be hell for fatigue. I'm guessing they saw some cool-looking "generative design" products (which is a very bad place to start) and then designed something that looked similar that was easier to machine. 25 minutes worth of setting up a basic FEA study should have given them cause to second guess what they were doing, and a couple hours doing a comparative study to tubular designs should have been a nail in the coffin.
Unless someone has evidence of more 5Dev cranks snapping, I'm going to assume the line "that particular crank had an issue" is refering to that SPECIFIC crank which snapped, not the batch, and he is acknowledging that it failed catestrophically.
I don't see any evidence of 5Dev doing anything wrong. A product failed, they offered a warranty or refund, the guy was a dick, end of story.
How many products have you guys had fail and need warranty? I've had 2 forks, 1 shock, 1 rear hub, 1 brand new chain, 1 handlebar. So what, sometimes shit breaks
Have seen 2 arms with cracks and 1 arm that broke during a ride with the rider luckily not hurt too bad.
While 5dev offered replacement or refund fast, there is clearly something wrong with the design of the arm and since its a breakage that could cause a serious injury I would expect 5dev to recall the product and replace with the new version or refund categorically.
The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like...
The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like that. Just provide him warranty service, no more no less... Rather than being a twit about it and then rescinding the offer.
Using an open truss design like that for a crank is ridiculously stupid anyway. It's objectively bad engineering, the section is unable to deal with torsion efficiently and the stress concentrations will be hell for fatigue. I'm guessing they saw some cool-looking "generative design" products (which is a very bad place to start) and then designed something that looked similar that was easier to machine. 25 minutes worth of setting up a basic FEA study should have given them cause to second guess what they were doing, and a couple hours doing a comparative study to tubular designs should have been a nail in the coffin.
I can’t imagine anyone would actually sell the volume of cranks that these guys are trying to sell in a country as litigious as the USA without going through a lengthy design and testing process. You guys think you’re tough on people’s ideas? Between insurance carriers and lawyers these guys wouldn’t have have survived this long without doing some basic FEA… and then more testing than I can imagine. It’s not worth continuing to guess at what we think the problem is. I come here for some good tech rumors…
From 5 dev's website: "5DEV is a division of 5th Axis, a world leader in manufacturing complex components for the aerospace and medical industries." They machine aero and med parts that are designed by others. They're a high end machine shop, they also design and make an extensive line of workpiece holders. 5th Axis grew very quickly, that doesn't happen unless they're smart and talented. But industrial or manufacturing engineering expertise isn't the same as mechanical design expertise, though of course there's some overlap. And anytime you branch out into a new field there will be a learning curve. The design concept doesn't strike me as the most efficient strength/weight wise, but not inherently flawed or dangerous. It's not shaped that way because it's the most sensible way to make a crank arm, it's made that way to look cool and thus sell.
The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like...
The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like that. Just provide him warranty service, no more no less... Rather than being a twit about it and then rescinding the offer.
Using an open truss design like that for a crank is ridiculously stupid anyway. It's objectively bad engineering, the section is unable to deal with torsion efficiently and the stress concentrations will be hell for fatigue. I'm guessing they saw some cool-looking "generative design" products (which is a very bad place to start) and then designed something that looked similar that was easier to machine. 25 minutes worth of setting up a basic FEA study should have given them cause to second guess what they were doing, and a couple hours doing a comparative study to tubular designs should have been a nail in the coffin.
I can’t imagine anyone would actually sell the volume of cranks that these guys are trying to sell in a country as litigious as the USA...
I can’t imagine anyone would actually sell the volume of cranks that these guys are trying to sell in a country as litigious as the USA without going through a lengthy design and testing process. You guys think you’re tough on people’s ideas? Between insurance carriers and lawyers these guys wouldn’t have have survived this long without doing some basic FEA… and then more testing than I can imagine. It’s not worth continuing to guess at what we think the problem is. I come here for some good tech rumors…
How much experience do you have with testing mass produced products that go on the market? I'm afraid you're vastly overestimating the amount of testing being done on products sold to consumers...
BTW, the Tyee in aluminium has internal routing holes on the frame, so can be routed NOT through the headset. The Al is thus cheaper AND better.
Nothing interesting then, more of a facelift. Still using a 55mm stroke shock for 160mm of travel while almost all of the competitors use AT LEAST 60mm of stroke, with most actually using 65mm. Not good for the leverage ratio with this 55mm stroke... Otherwise, it’s even prettier than before.
Nothing interesting then, more of a facelift. Still using a 55mm stroke shock for 160mm of travel while almost all of the competitors use AT LEAST...
Nothing interesting then, more of a facelift. Still using a 55mm stroke shock for 160mm of travel while almost all of the competitors use AT LEAST 60mm of stroke, with most actually using 65mm. Not good for the leverage ratio with this 55mm stroke... Otherwise, it’s even prettier than before.
It's not the stroke that's the issue, it's the ETE. A 57,5 mm stroke shock has an ETE of 230 mm. A 55 mm shock has an ETE of 210 mm.
XLs and Ls could probably be massaged to work with a 230 mm ETE shock, but what about smaller sizes? There is the option of a trunnion mount, but packaging isn't simple with that one either considering it's mounted to the link on both sides. It would make for a chunky link.
When idiots collide on social media. That initial phone call must’ve been priceless.
I just want to see that picture of the broken eeWings…
Ditto, on the ee's.
I worked warranty/tech support for 10 years between 2 companies and have had chats with folx like Cam, but never, never did I ever think of trying to one up someone who lead off a convo by showing their sphincter. I also came up in the bike biz at the time of Kooka and Carumba so learned pretty early that perhaps billet ain't a good material choice for crank arms.
The guy was a wanker for sure but wow it's not hard to take a step back and simply refuse to engage with a guy like that. Just provide him warranty service, no more no less... Rather than being a twit about it and then rescinding the offer.
Using an open truss design like that for a crank is ridiculously stupid anyway. It's objectively bad engineering, the section is unable to deal with torsion efficiently and the stress concentrations will be hell for fatigue. I'm guessing they saw some cool-looking "generative design" products (which is a very bad place to start) and then designed something that looked similar that was easier to machine. 25 minutes worth of setting up a basic FEA study should have given them cause to second guess what they were doing, and a couple hours doing a comparative study to tubular designs should have been a nail in the coffin.
Unless someone has evidence of more 5Dev cranks snapping, I'm going to assume the line "that particular crank had an issue" is refering to that SPECIFIC crank which snapped, not the batch, and he is acknowledging that it failed catestrophically.
I don't see any evidence of 5Dev doing anything wrong. A product failed, they offered a warranty or refund, the guy was a dick, end of story.
How many products have you guys had fail and need warranty? I've had 2 forks, 1 shock, 1 rear hub, 1 brand new chain, 1 handlebar. So what, sometimes shit breaks
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CrMoMreBw0f/?igshid=MTIyMzRjYmRlZg==
When idiots collide on social media. That initial phone call must’ve been priceless.
I just want to see that picture of the broken eeWings…
Have seen 2 arms with cracks and 1 arm that broke during a ride with the rider luckily not hurt too bad.
While 5dev offered replacement or refund fast, there is clearly something wrong with the design of the arm and since its a breakage that could cause a serious injury I would expect 5dev to recall the product and replace with the new version or refund categorically.
Well that doesnt offer much confidence.
Nobody has come out looking good from this.
I can’t imagine anyone would actually sell the volume of cranks that these guys are trying to sell in a country as litigious as the USA without going through a lengthy design and testing process. You guys think you’re tough on people’s ideas? Between insurance carriers and lawyers these guys wouldn’t have have survived this long without doing some basic FEA… and then more testing than I can imagine. It’s not worth continuing to guess at what we think the problem is. I come here for some good tech rumors…
New Propain Tyee
cables thru headset meh
From 5 dev's website: "5DEV is a division of 5th Axis, a world leader in manufacturing complex components for the aerospace and medical industries." They machine aero and med parts that are designed by others. They're a high end machine shop, they also design and make an extensive line of workpiece holders. 5th Axis grew very quickly, that doesn't happen unless they're smart and talented. But industrial or manufacturing engineering expertise isn't the same as mechanical design expertise, though of course there's some overlap. And anytime you branch out into a new field there will be a learning curve. The design concept doesn't strike me as the most efficient strength/weight wise, but not inherently flawed or dangerous. It's not shaped that way because it's the most sensible way to make a crank arm, it's made that way to look cool and thus sell.
What’s new about it?
Haha headset cable routing, another bunch of wankers at propain!
Edit: At least the Aluminium model can be had with normal cable routing
Flip Chip, Integrated cable routing, rear brake integration, ... https://www.propain-bikes.com/en/bikes/enduro/tyee-cf/?_gl=1*oanolm*_up…
How much experience do you have with testing mass produced products that go on the market? I'm afraid you're vastly overestimating the amount of testing being done on products sold to consumers...
BTW, the Tyee in aluminium has internal routing holes on the frame, so can be routed NOT through the headset. The Al is thus cheaper AND better.
But this looks so easy to work on!
Nothing interesting then, more of a facelift. Still using a 55mm stroke shock for 160mm of travel while almost all of the competitors use AT LEAST 60mm of stroke, with most actually using 65mm. Not good for the leverage ratio with this 55mm stroke... Otherwise, it’s even prettier than before.
Steel Frameworks frame (and in the comments he says he's designed an enduro version)
a welcome sight for tired eyes amidst all that internal cable routing bullshit, looks so clean and I’m usually not a fan of skinny steel pipes
It's not the stroke that's the issue, it's the ETE. A 57,5 mm stroke shock has an ETE of 230 mm. A 55 mm shock has an ETE of 210 mm.
XLs and Ls could probably be massaged to work with a 230 mm ETE shock, but what about smaller sizes? There is the option of a trunnion mount, but packaging isn't simple with that one either considering it's mounted to the link on both sides. It would make for a chunky link.
Ditto, on the ee's.
I worked warranty/tech support for 10 years between 2 companies and have had chats with folx like Cam, but never, never did I ever think of trying to one up someone who lead off a convo by showing their sphincter. I also came up in the bike biz at the time of Kooka and Carumba so learned pretty early that perhaps billet ain't a good material choice for crank arms.
Has this been talked about before? New air shock from Xfusion on Adolf Silva's yeti.
Looks like vital put up a post about an inverted fork from Push. Maybe a woopsy on the ol' embargo? Looks great though.
I don't even want to know how much a fork from push would cost, but boy would I like to try it.
Should we start guessing? I am going $1499...
Didn't really show how the shock works. Also, through headset cable routing.
$1499 would be a STEAL. I'm going near double that easy. $2699
My guess is $2,100...
I don’t even know but it looks dead sexy
Not embargoed, apparently:
Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation