MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Primoz
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783rd
3/10/2023 8:34am
Primoz wrote:
Integrated bashguards* @sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear...

Integrated bashguards*

@sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear to be single piece, as currently. Should make for a cheaper to make (cheaper to buy?) and a lighter cassette. With less endurance though (but Shimano also has 3 Al rings on the XTR cassette, 2 on the XT, 1 on the SLX and 0 on Deore).

krabo83 wrote:
xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of...

xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of unreliability.

Thank you so very much for that info as the cassette is the most "tempting" part of the drivetrain to upgrade a full XT build to considering the weight difference. That and the crankset, but the XTR crank is 2 piece glued and I think it's well known what happens with shimano 2 piece cranks 🙂

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sprungmass
Posts
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Calgary, AB CA
3/10/2023 9:33am
Primoz wrote:
Integrated bashguards* @sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear...

Integrated bashguards*

@sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear to be single piece, as currently. Should make for a cheaper to make (cheaper to buy?) and a lighter cassette. With less endurance though (but Shimano also has 3 Al rings on the XTR cassette, 2 on the XT, 1 on the SLX and 0 on Deore).

Those two rings on the XO have to be steel based on their appearance and the drivetrain hierarchy. Otherwise I don't see a way they would drop weight off their XX SL cassette which definitely uses 3 aluminum rings. 

 

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Primoz
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3/10/2023 9:44am

You might be right actually, yeah. But that would make for a chungus of a cassette weight wise while even the GX in current form uses an aluminium 50/52T chainring...

Well, shouldn't be long before everything is cleared up considering the rumors of the embargo lift.

csermonet
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82
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7/13/2011
Location
GA US
3/10/2023 10:24am
csermonet wrote:
Yeti always gets wild with their dh bike suspension, so i would expect something sorta novel on this one outside of  just being a high pivot/idler...

Yeti always gets wild with their dh bike suspension, so i would expect something sorta novel on this one outside of  just being a high pivot/idler. we'll see soon enough

sspomer wrote:
#TBT https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Prototype-unique-and-random-mountain-bikes,8222

Precisely! 

 

The new bike is a looker, fookin 'ell

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
3/10/2023 12:31pm

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

5
Primoz
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783rd
3/10/2023 12:35pm

Anybody not riding an e-bike?

11
3/10/2023 12:40pm
Suns_PSD wrote:

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

What makes you say it looks heavy?

Onawalk
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296
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CA
3/10/2023 12:59pm
Suns_PSD wrote:

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

maybe 1% of bikes on my local trails are e-bikes, so yeah, winch and plummet riding, 50/52 is great.

Most rides I dont see an ebike in the lot, or on the trails, I ride every other day.

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bicycle019
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Location
Denver, CO US
3/10/2023 1:15pm
Primoz wrote:
Integrated bashguards* @sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear...

Integrated bashguards*

@sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear to be single piece, as currently. Should make for a cheaper to make (cheaper to buy?) and a lighter cassette. With less endurance though (but Shimano also has 3 Al rings on the XTR cassette, 2 on the XT, 1 on the SLX and 0 on Deore).

krabo83 wrote:
xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of...

xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of unreliability.

Not sure where this comes from, I see XTR cassettes on tons of team bikes and I got over 2k miles on mine without issues and perfect shifting. Replaced with XT when it was time due to cost before I sold the bike.

BrambleLee
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31
Joined
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Location
Portland, OR US
3/10/2023 1:19pm Edited Date/Time 3/10/2023 1:21pm
Suns_PSD wrote:

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

For my bike with SRAM kit on it, I won’t run a 52 because 1) it’s a really light downcountry bike and doesn’t need it, and 2) that 10 tooth jump is just stupid. 

It looks like they’ve gone for more even jumps between gears on this new gen tho. I’d have no issue with using a 52t low gear on a bike that did a lot of winch and plummet if the jumps to get there were more reasonable.

Of course, I’m really really happy with current gen shimano on my two bigger bikes, so I’m not going to be making the change anyway.

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2
BrambleLee
Posts
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Location
Portland, OR US
3/10/2023 1:26pm
Primoz wrote:
Integrated bashguards* @sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear...

Integrated bashguards*

@sprungmass I think the 52T is a spider/carrier, the two smaller aluminium rings are pressed/pinned onto it and the lower 9 gears still appear to be single piece, as currently. Should make for a cheaper to make (cheaper to buy?) and a lighter cassette. With less endurance though (but Shimano also has 3 Al rings on the XTR cassette, 2 on the XT, 1 on the SLX and 0 on Deore).

krabo83 wrote:
xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of...

xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of unreliability.

bicycle019 wrote:
Not sure where this comes from, I see XTR cassettes on tons of team bikes and I got over 2k miles on mine without issues and...

Not sure where this comes from, I see XTR cassettes on tons of team bikes and I got over 2k miles on mine without issues and perfect shifting. Replaced with XT when it was time due to cost before I sold the bike.

Was going to say the same. I’ve got XTR on one bike and XT on another, and wear seems plenty durable on both for me. I have a low bar for putting new chains on, and also do the nerdy crockpot chain wax thing so my drivetrain runs reeeeaaaalllll clean. Maybe the Swiss cheese dude who ran thru his cassette in three months doesn’t do any maintenance?

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AndehM
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El Granada, CA US
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347th
3/10/2023 1:38pm
krabo83 wrote:
xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of...

xtr cassette is made of cheese unfortunately. buddy of mine trashed his after 3 months and most shimano pro‘s are running the xt one because of unreliability.

bicycle019 wrote:
Not sure where this comes from, I see XTR cassettes on tons of team bikes and I got over 2k miles on mine without issues and...

Not sure where this comes from, I see XTR cassettes on tons of team bikes and I got over 2k miles on mine without issues and perfect shifting. Replaced with XT when it was time due to cost before I sold the bike.

BrambleLee wrote:
Was going to say the same. I’ve got XTR on one bike and XT on another, and wear seems plenty durable on both for me. I...

Was going to say the same. I’ve got XTR on one bike and XT on another, and wear seems plenty durable on both for me. I have a low bar for putting new chains on, and also do the nerdy crockpot chain wax thing so my drivetrain runs reeeeaaaalllll clean. Maybe the Swiss cheese dude who ran thru his cassette in three months doesn’t do any maintenance?

I went through 2 XTR cassettes in less than 200 miles each. The ramp teeth just wore down to nubs, all the rest looked fine.  Drivetrain was setup by a shop.  Shimano warrantied them both times.  The guy I was dealing with said it was really strange, but didn't complain.  Sold the setup after that and went back to X01 AXS, which is at about 2600 miles and still fine.

3
1
swadd1er
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12/8/2012
Location
GB
3/10/2023 1:49pm

Any recent photos of the Specialized Demo or Pivot DH prototypes? They seem to be doing a good job of keeping both under wraps.

13
Onawalk
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CA
3/10/2023 2:43pm
Suns_PSD wrote:

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

BrambleLee wrote:
For my bike with SRAM kit on it, I won’t run a 52 because 1) it’s a really light downcountry bike and doesn’t need it, and...

For my bike with SRAM kit on it, I won’t run a 52 because 1) it’s a really light downcountry bike and doesn’t need it, and 2) that 10 tooth jump is just stupid. 

It looks like they’ve gone for more even jumps between gears on this new gen tho. I’d have no issue with using a 52t low gear on a bike that did a lot of winch and plummet if the jumps to get there were more reasonable.

Of course, I’m really really happy with current gen shimano on my two bigger bikes, so I’m not going to be making the change anyway.

Oh, see I use the 52 as a bailout gear, its as an option to walking.  So that jump is fine, and welcomed cause I use the bike as an 11 speed mostly.

Not stupid, just not optimized for your use case. 

Not all things are for everyone, they all have a place

11
BrambleLee
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Portland, OR US
3/10/2023 3:42pm
Onawalk wrote:
Oh, see I use the 52 as a bailout gear, its as an option to walking.  So that jump is fine, and welcomed cause I use...

Oh, see I use the 52 as a bailout gear, its as an option to walking.  So that jump is fine, and welcomed cause I use the bike as an 11 speed mostly.

Not stupid, just not optimized for your use case. 

Not all things are for everyone, they all have a place

Sure sure, no shade meant toward any individual who’s happy with the setup. I talk kind of snarky sometimes. I’m sure SRAM sold a ton of the 10-52s and that lots of customers are plenty happy. 
 

Same time, it’s not at all an uncommon critique, there’s not another drivetrain out there with such a big jump, and they’re changing it for the next gen, so I don’t think it’s much out of line to say that the execution of the 10-52 is less than ideal.  

6
1
LookinForIt
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3/10/2023 5:43pm
BrambleLee wrote:
Sure sure, no shade meant toward any individual who’s happy with the setup. I talk kind of snarky sometimes. I’m sure SRAM sold a ton of...

Sure sure, no shade meant toward any individual who’s happy with the setup. I talk kind of snarky sometimes. I’m sure SRAM sold a ton of the 10-52s and that lots of customers are plenty happy. 
 

Same time, it’s not at all an uncommon critique, there’s not another drivetrain out there with such a big jump, and they’re changing it for the next gen, so I don’t think it’s much out of line to say that the execution of the 10-52 is less than ideal.  

As someone with a 50t Eagle (2017 GX, still going strong!) I felt that the 52t was there purely because Shimano made a 51t.

The 50t is enough, and feels reasonable.  If they are trying to refine the groupset, I would understand them adjusting the ratios at the top end.

 

Though, my opinion is based around 27.5-inch wheels.  For me, I only use the 50t on super steep roads...

2
3/10/2023 7:47pm

While we are talking high pivots… Photos from Santa Cruz testing one on the v10 mule.
4E5E29BD-8D16-4556-B42F-1B0BD862EB97

75561D12-C92E-4048-8909-D6FE38BD353E

 

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Sesame Seed
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Farmington, CT US
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3/10/2023 8:42pm
While we are talking high pivots… Photos from Santa Cruz testing one on the v10 mule.    

While we are talking high pivots… Photos from Santa Cruz testing one on the v10 mule.
4E5E29BD-8D16-4556-B42F-1B0BD862EB97

75561D12-C92E-4048-8909-D6FE38BD353E

 

There's a look on the riders face of 'I totally need some rando colloquialism... wonder what mtbr.com forums are like'

Sadly, becomes the laughing stock of any DH forum he joins by suggesting to others a smooth pedaling high pivot needs to be also referred to as the 'runny bottom'.

1
Primoz
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783rd
3/10/2023 9:18pm

Regarding the cassettes, I took the who needs a 52t as including everything above 50t vs older 11spd cassettes (considering ebikes were mentioned). The jump is stupid (haven't really tried it, but you can see that from a mile away), but it was the cheapest way to "oneup" Shimano by keeping the steel rings the same as they were. The new cassette confirms this as it's all new and doesn't have a big jump. 

As for who needs it... I wouldn't mind a 54t, then I could run a 32t chainring instead of the 30t and could theoretically run a power meter without making the easiest gear any harder than what I have with 30/50 combo (I'm a spinner and the climbs here are fairly steep) 🙂

6
Simpancz
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CA
3/10/2023 10:36pm

Imo, reason of 52t cog is the 29" rear wheel. 50t for 27.5" is perfectly fine. I am currently on 34t chainring and 50t cassette. Used to have 30t oval, but I was quite often on the highest gear. Local North Shore hills are quite steep. I would appriciete 52t, but still able to pedal up. I am still the last one who is pushing bike from my pack. 😆

2
3/11/2023 3:46am
swadd1er wrote:

Any recent photos of the Specialized Demo or Pivot DH prototypes? They seem to be doing a good job of keeping both under wraps.

I see what you did there.

1
Fred_Pop
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FR
3/11/2023 4:54am
Suns_PSD wrote:

The new SRAM stuff looks rad, but also really heavy.

Also, in reality, with so many bikes go 'E', does anyone really need a 52T?

I'd personally like a 60T cog so I could run a larger from chainring. Currently on 24T chainring and 52T rear cog.

2
krabo83
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AT
3/11/2023 5:53am
Fred_Pop wrote:

I'd personally like a 60T cog so I could run a larger from chainring. Currently on 24T chainring and 52T rear cog.

don‘t think i‘ve ever seen a 24 up front, are they even made?! no offense, but maybe you should try an e-bike? could be the right solution for you.

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1
gibbon
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3/11/2023 6:33am
Fred_Pop wrote:

I'd personally like a 60T cog so I could run a larger from chainring. Currently on 24T chainring and 52T rear cog.

80rpm on 24/52 is 3.2mph......walking pace is 4mph. Just sayin'

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MTBrent
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Concord, NH US
3/11/2023 6:47am
krabo83 wrote:
don‘t think i‘ve ever seen a 24 up front, are they even made?! no offense, but maybe you should try an e-bike? could be the right...

don‘t think i‘ve ever seen a 24 up front, are they even made?! no offense, but maybe you should try an e-bike? could be the right solution for you.

“…maybe you should try an e-bike?”

 Coming off the top rope with the insults! 😂

In all seriousness though, when I went back to gears after only singlespeeding I figured for sh!ts and giggles I’d just go off the deep end and ran a 26/51T setup.  I did indeed giggle at what I could climb. The singlespeeder in me ultimately forced me into 36/11-36 which I find fine, but that ultra low gearing has its place. I wouldn’t rag on anyone wanting such ratios. Not sure I could handle the aesthetics of a 60T though!

7
TannerVal
Posts
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2/6/2016
Location
Hampton, NH US
3/11/2023 9:00am
krabo83 wrote:
don‘t think i‘ve ever seen a 24 up front, are they even made?! no offense, but maybe you should try an e-bike? could be the right...

don‘t think i‘ve ever seen a 24 up front, are they even made?! no offense, but maybe you should try an e-bike? could be the right solution for you.

MTBrent wrote:
“…maybe you should try an e-bike?”  Coming off the top rope with the insults! 😂 In all seriousness though, when I went back to gears after...

“…maybe you should try an e-bike?”

 Coming off the top rope with the insults! 😂

In all seriousness though, when I went back to gears after only singlespeeding I figured for sh!ts and giggles I’d just go off the deep end and ran a 26/51T setup.  I did indeed giggle at what I could climb. The singlespeeder in me ultimately forced me into 36/11-36 which I find fine, but that ultra low gearing has its place. I wouldn’t rag on anyone wanting such ratios. Not sure I could handle the aesthetics of a 60T though!

Derailleur cage length would be fucked

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3/11/2023 10:19am
Fred_Pop wrote:

I'd personally like a 60T cog so I could run a larger from chainring. Currently on 24T chainring and 52T rear cog.

gibbon wrote:

80rpm on 24/52 is 3.2mph......walking pace is 4mph. Just sayin'

4mph is 6.4kph. Damn, dude, you’re 1 fast walker! 😀

2
gibbon
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439
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Location
GB
3/11/2023 10:41am

4mph is 6.4kph. Damn, dude, you’re 1 fast walker! 😀

"For a person with good fitness, an approximate moderate walking pace: 15 minutes per mile (4 miles per hour) 9 minutes per kilometre (6.4 kilometres per hour)"

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1
O1D4
Posts
61
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10/20/2018
Location
Vancouver CA
Fantasy
1002nd
3/11/2023 12:05pm

4mph is 6.4kph. Damn, dude, you’re 1 fast walker! 😀

gibbon wrote:
"For a person with good fitness, an approximate moderate walking pace: 15 minutes per mile (4 miles per hour) 9 minutes per kilometre (6.4 kilometres per...

"For a person with good fitness, an approximate moderate walking pace: 15 minutes per mile (4 miles per hour) 9 minutes per kilometre (6.4 kilometres per hour)"

On flat ground maybe... Anywhere where you are considering a 24x52 gearing you will not come anywhere close to 4mph walking speed.

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