I just finished listening to a French interview with Laurent Delorme (Specialized's DH team manager) on the "En roue libre" podcast, and have noted some details...
I just finished listening to a French interview with Laurent Delorme (Specialized's DH team manager) on the "En roue libre" podcast, and have noted some details on how the transition to Warner Bros happened :
-There was a call for proposals by the UCI to see who would get the diffusion rights of MTB races, and RedBull lost it to Warner Bros. WB then bought the diffusion rights and also negociated to be the "promoters of the sport", so the UCI would stay the governing body (basically give away the titles and write the rulebook), but everything else would be handled by Warner Bros. They bought the MTB segments to handle all the World Cup series from ESO (Chris Ball). I didn't know they were handling the WC series, but maybe that's not exactly what he meant.
Laurent's vision of developping the sport :
-Apparently, from the data that they had, MTB viewers/fans are more attached and consistent with watching their sport than soccer fans, so placing an MTB race before a soccer game opens up the sport to neophytes and will (theorically from their point of view) bring in a new viewership. I don't know about other people, but if there is a soccer/football/volleyball/etc. sport that I don't watch before or after an MTB race, I'll just leave and do something else. It probably works the same the other way around. Laurent said that this is good for the sport, because those neophytes will have questions about MTB and Warner Bros will try to simplify the rules to make it easier to understand for new people (ex: remove protected status, qualifications, etc.) They kind of missed their mark with Qualis this year, but from everything we're hearing, this is disapearing for next year.
He also said "The sport needs to be more and more elitist, that's not even a choice, it's a fact if we want to develop the sport."
So that all means that MTB fans who have been watching races for the past 30 years don't have a say at all in any of this, and WB don't care about MTB fans either. They are only in the sport to get more viewership, add another sport to their portfolio and make their subscription plans more expensive because they offer more sports. Hopefully they don't f&*# it up too much before their diffusion contact ends.
After hearing Loic and Laurent talk, big teams (Specialized at least) just want to see big teams compete against each other like in all other big/popular sports. Basically removing all the "weeds" from the grass to make it homogenous. I don't watch F1/nascar/indoor motocross races/etc. because everything looks too "manicured" and what I like about MTB, that everything isn't perfect and it feels more lively/organic. I'm probably not alone, but obviously I'm not WB's public. Hopefully MTB racing keeps some of it's essence in the coming year, or else watching the races will get uninteresting and they will lose everything.
I'll say this as I spoke to him myself in Andorra this year, and the badge and shirt he was wearing reflected what he told me...
I'll say this as I spoke to him myself in Andorra this year, and the badge and shirt he was wearing reflected what he told me. Chris ball is no longer affiliated with ESO, he's sold it. He is now the VP of Mountain Bike for WB/Disney.
I keep reading people referring to ESO as Chris Ball or vice versa. This is not the case anymore. I was surprised as anyone to hear it.
I can also affirm your references from the Laurent interview. The people at the helm do not want small teams or privateers involved. Everything is being curated for broadcast. Such a bummer.
wB/Disney? He works for two different companies? Impressive.
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the...
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
Because “you” stopped paying for it. (Not “you” you, but yeah…)
But why would you pay for it when the event is free live and for replay on redbull. Hard to not feel the sport has taken a step back despite having a bigger potential audience than ever.
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the...
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
Well you can still have part of what you want. Just buy the Misspent Summers Hurly Burly year book for the old school in-depth reportage, geek facts, photography, BTS and storylines each year. More pages and less ads than Dirt too.
Sooo, after the first night of the inaugural Vegas Grand Prix how’s everyone feeling about turning DH into F1?
Funnily enough the end product (the race) seems to have been a big success? I haven't watched any other races this season, and find the Max domination makes it a bit boring, but Vegas GP was cool to see on TV, F1 cars racing down the strip, and the track was better than I expected. The spectacle of Vegas at night, the sphere etc. all looked awesome on TV. Despite Max winning there was still entertaining battles throughout the race, Charles getting past Perez at the end... and funny stuff as well between team radio, Max sniging viva las vegas, the car ride to the podium etc.
Not saying there is a parallel to WCDH here, but it is interesting to think about, how does the end product stack up.
It was interesting because it was cold and the track surface was greasy (low grip) and the track was new, so the teams didn't have as much data on it to run all the simulations. But yeah, surprisingly interesting.
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the...
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
These were the good days!
DH only on Eurosport or discovery in 24, non on YouTube.
just make it pay per view, €10-20 for a race weekend with the XC
Well you can still have part of what you want. Just buy the Misspent Summers Hurly Burly year book for the old school in-depth reportage, geek...
Well you can still have part of what you want. Just buy the Misspent Summers Hurly Burly year book for the old school in-depth reportage, geek facts, photography, BTS and storylines each year. More pages and less ads than Dirt too.
I’ve got a few Hurly Burly’s and whilst they smell excellent it just doesn’t quite hit the same when you’ve already watched the races. I loved the old days, reading the “story” of the race but now that we’ve tasted the live feed there’s probably no going back.
What I am looking forward to this year is “the world stage” seeing as I have basically no idea what happened there!
Well do what I did, ignore all the news reporting and have no idea who won any of the races (I somehow managed to find out recently that Andreas Kolb won Leogang and Charlie Hatton won the worlds? And Bruni won the overall?) and then be pleasantly surprised by Hurly Burly
FWIW, Earthed series is just amazing. Had it not been for Earthed I'd have no idea DH WC was in Brazil years ago (when we were talking about the world part of the cup and the fact that XC is going to Brazil next year)
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the...
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
These were the good days!
DH only on Eurosport or discovery in 24, non on YouTube.
just make it pay per view, €10-20 for a...
These were the good days!
DH only on Eurosport or discovery in 24, non on YouTube.
just make it pay per view, €10-20 for a race weekend with the XC
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up for something like that. But they will charge that and rides will still get nothing so NO
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up...
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up for something like that. But they will charge that and rides will still get nothing so NO
How do you expect organisers to give riders money from the series when there are over 350 riders entering a race?
World Cup DH is not the World surf league or whatever. The top riders make a really good salary.
Seems people on this forum want DH to stay open to all, privateers etc.. but at the same time model it self on some Uber elite model where only 30 people compete and the athletes get a % cut from the series earnings and TV rights?
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up...
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up for something like that. But they will charge that and rides will still get nothing so NO
How do you expect organisers to give riders money from the series when there are over 350 riders entering a race?
World Cup DH is not...
How do you expect organisers to give riders money from the series when there are over 350 riders entering a race?
World Cup DH is not the World surf league or whatever. The top riders make a really good salary.
Seems people on this forum want DH to stay open to all, privateers etc.. but at the same time model it self on some Uber elite model where only 30 people compete and the athletes get a % cut from the series earnings and TV rights?
Those two things are not compatible
Did I say every rider? No I mean the payouts go up big time. They get paid shit for a win.
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to viewership. If Aaron Gwin and/or Elliot Jackson is commentating I might pay.
Looks like 2024 WC viewing option is announced today from WBD - "Max with the B/R sports add-on":
https://press.wbd.com/us/media-release/max-welcome-live-cycling-us-february-2024?lid=ufz7sncdyv2l
Pricing: $100 w/ adverts or 150 w/o...
I can't see this being good for viewing figures, or for the sport. Are the World Champs included in that package, or do you guys still have to pay extra for that too?
Looks like 2024 WC viewing option is announced today from WBD - "Max with the B/R sports add-on":
https://press.wbd.com/us/media-release/max-welcome-live-cycling-us-february-2024?lid=ufz7sncdyv2l
Pricing: $100 w/ adverts or 150 w/o...
until this year i was like "ma, i've spent my money on more stupid ways, so i don't mind spending this little for low quality streams"
i don't mind paying for a service. it was low costs for low service so fine. by increasing costs this should definately mean increasing the service. for example: finally getting a better cam quality, hosts, getting rid of cedric
I heard about this one last week as a rumor and didn't realize the CEO's were already in meetings. A WB-Discovery + Paramount merger actually makes sense for both parties. Warner needs IP and content to compete with the likes of Disney+ and Netflix on the streaming side. Meanwhile, Paramount needs better international distribution + reach (and also has a ton of debt in its books).
The resulting synergies would probably drive other large media conglomerates to do further consolidations.
Unfortunately, outside the Americas, I don't think a lot will change in terms of mtb World Cup coverage, unless they combine all their streaming services into 1 app and include UCI content there.
I heard about this one last week as a rumor and didn't realize the CEO's were already in meetings. A WB-Discovery + Paramount merger actually makes...
I heard about this one last week as a rumor and didn't realize the CEO's were already in meetings. A WB-Discovery + Paramount merger actually makes sense for both parties. Warner needs IP and content to compete with the likes of Disney+ and Netflix on the streaming side. Meanwhile, Paramount needs better international distribution + reach (and also has a ton of debt in its books).
The resulting synergies would probably drive other large media conglomerates to do further consolidations.
Unfortunately, outside the Americas, I don't think a lot will change in terms of mtb World Cup coverage, unless they combine all their streaming services into 1 app and include UCI content there.
"The resulting synergies would probably drive other large media conglomerates to do further consolidations. "
Kaiser Soze would never use the word "synergies". The jig is up.
Consolidations may be good for shareholders but usually not good for consumers in the long term.
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to...
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to viewership. If Aaron Gwin and/or Elliot Jackson is commentating I might pay.
i wouldn't mind paying if the racers were getting a cut of it
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to...
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to viewership. If Aaron Gwin and/or Elliot Jackson is commentating I might pay.
i wouldn't mind paying if the racers were getting a cut of it
Absolutely agree! I wonder what the racers want the ex-Redbull viewers/hardcore fans to do? Subscribe to WBD? Boycott? I'd like to know what they think will benefit them the most...
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to...
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to viewership. If Aaron Gwin and/or Elliot Jackson is commentating I might pay.
i wouldn't mind paying if the racers were getting a cut of it
The racers never got a cut from RBTV. And while it was "free" to watch RB media house were not doing it at a loss.
And maybe more importantly how many riders 'get a cut'? Top 5, 15? What about riders ranked 65th who occasionally get a top 20? Do all the women get big dollars cos there are 10 in finals?
The racers never got a cut from RBTV. And while it was "free" to watch RB media house were not doing it at a loss.
And...
The racers never got a cut from RBTV. And while it was "free" to watch RB media house were not doing it at a loss.
And maybe more importantly how many riders 'get a cut'? Top 5, 15? What about riders ranked 65th who occasionally get a top 20? Do all the women get big dollars cos there are 10 in finals?
Decades ago Ted Turner bought the Atlanta Braves when he realized how much good content he would get for his TV station. Creating engaging content is expensive!
World Cup MTB racing with Rob Warner, Eliot Jackson, and/or Aaron Gwin announcing is engaging content (at least for a certain relatively small demographic).
There are two simple ways to pay the riders for that content. Pay more prize money which seems the most logical as the top 20 finishers tend to provide the most excitement. Or pay them some sort of salary based on rankings (the best pitchers in baseball make more than 3rd string out fielders).
What we don't know is how much the broadcaster is making after all of there expenses, especially how much they pay the UCI. Since the UCI is selling the content should'tt the UCI be paying the talent? I mean the UCI does very little to produce the show yet they get the proceeds of the athletes' hard work.
Care to share?
wB/Disney? He works for two different companies? Impressive.
Picture this - the year is 2006 and you’re trying to find dirt magazine in your local WHSmith. Peaty, Hill and Minnaar are fighting for the overall and your only coverage is a monthly update that probably includes 2/3 rounds. The story is told by Steve Jones and photography by Sven Martin. You watch all the racing on earthed at the end of the season. Absolute quality over quantity. Why can’t I still have this?
Because “you” stopped paying for it. (Not “you” you, but yeah…)
But why would you pay for it when the event is free live and for replay on redbull. Hard to not feel the sport has taken a step back despite having a bigger potential audience than ever.
Well you can still have part of what you want. Just buy the Misspent Summers Hurly Burly year book for the old school in-depth reportage, geek facts, photography, BTS and storylines each year. More pages and less ads than Dirt too.
Funnily enough the end product (the race) seems to have been a big success? I haven't watched any other races this season, and find the Max domination makes it a bit boring, but Vegas GP was cool to see on TV, F1 cars racing down the strip, and the track was better than I expected. The spectacle of Vegas at night, the sphere etc. all looked awesome on TV. Despite Max winning there was still entertaining battles throughout the race, Charles getting past Perez at the end... and funny stuff as well between team radio, Max sniging viva las vegas, the car ride to the podium etc.
Not saying there is a parallel to WCDH here, but it is interesting to think about, how does the end product stack up.
It was interesting because it was cold and the track surface was greasy (low grip) and the track was new, so the teams didn't have as much data on it to run all the simulations. But yeah, surprisingly interesting.
Just wanna say that both moto and F1 are sports that NEVER have the parity that fans claim to like. DH racing is the best.
These were the good days!
DH only on Eurosport or discovery in 24, non on YouTube.
just make it pay per view, €10-20 for a race weekend with the XC
I’ve got a few Hurly Burly’s and whilst they smell excellent it just doesn’t quite hit the same when you’ve already watched the races. I loved the old days, reading the “story” of the race but now that we’ve tasted the live feed there’s probably no going back.
What I am looking forward to this year is “the world stage” seeing as I have basically no idea what happened there!
Well do what I did, ignore all the news reporting and have no idea who won any of the races (I somehow managed to find out recently that Andreas Kolb won Leogang and Charlie Hatton won the worlds? And Bruni won the overall?) and then be pleasantly surprised by Hurly Burly
FWIW, Earthed series is just amazing. Had it not been for Earthed I'd have no idea DH WC was in Brazil years ago (when we were talking about the world part of the cup and the fact that XC is going to Brazil next year)
As long as a minimum 50% of that went straight back to riders pusher (on top of the pennys they currently get) I could be up for something like that. But they will charge that and rides will still get nothing so NO
How do you expect organisers to give riders money from the series when there are over 350 riders entering a race?
World Cup DH is not the World surf league or whatever. The top riders make a really good salary.
Seems people on this forum want DH to stay open to all, privateers etc.. but at the same time model it self on some Uber elite model where only 30 people compete and the athletes get a % cut from the series earnings and TV rights?
Those two things are not compatible
Did I say every rider? No I mean the payouts go up big time. They get paid shit for a win.
What could have been hahahah
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/news/2012-Freecaster-DH-Series-Confirmed,…
Looks like 2024 WC viewing option is announced today from WBD - "Max with the B/R sports add-on":
https://press.wbd.com/us/media-release/max-welcome-live-cycling-us-febr…
Pricing: $100 w/ adverts or 150 w/o https://auth.max.com/product?flow=purchase
Wow, $150.00 to watch a not as good version of something we used to get for free. Will be interesting to see what this does to viewership. If Aaron Gwin and/or Elliot Jackson is commentating I might pay.
I can't see this being good for viewing figures, or for the sport. Are the World Champs included in that package, or do you guys still have to pay extra for that too?
until this year i was like "ma, i've spent my money on more stupid ways, so i don't mind spending this little for low quality streams"
i don't mind paying for a service. it was low costs for low service so fine. by increasing costs this should definately mean increasing the service. for example: finally getting a better cam quality, hosts, getting rid of cedric
if not i'll most liklely will be out.
I wonder if juniors and qualies will still be on YT.
I do have a feeling we won't be seeing semifinal runs next year, as it seems everyone doesn't want it.
As if things were not already shaken up enough: https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/warner-bros-discovery-paramount-g…
I heard about this one last week as a rumor and didn't realize the CEO's were already in meetings. A WB-Discovery + Paramount merger actually makes sense for both parties. Warner needs IP and content to compete with the likes of Disney+ and Netflix on the streaming side. Meanwhile, Paramount needs better international distribution + reach (and also has a ton of debt in its books).
The resulting synergies would probably drive other large media conglomerates to do further consolidations.
Unfortunately, outside the Americas, I don't think a lot will change in terms of mtb World Cup coverage, unless they combine all their streaming services into 1 app and include UCI content there.
"The resulting synergies would probably drive other large media conglomerates to do further consolidations. "
Kaiser Soze would never use the word "synergies". The jig is up.
Consolidations may be good for shareholders but usually not good for consumers in the long term.
i wouldn't mind paying if the racers were getting a cut of it
all is not lost. you can still rep the GCN brand and former app with a jersey.
Absolutely agree! I wonder what the racers want the ex-Redbull viewers/hardcore fans to do? Subscribe to WBD? Boycott? I'd like to know what they think will benefit them the most...
The racers never got a cut from RBTV. And while it was "free" to watch RB media house were not doing it at a loss.
And maybe more importantly how many riders 'get a cut'? Top 5, 15? What about riders ranked 65th who occasionally get a top 20? Do all the women get big dollars cos there are 10 in finals?
Decades ago Ted Turner bought the Atlanta Braves when he realized how much good content he would get for his TV station. Creating engaging content is expensive!
World Cup MTB racing with Rob Warner, Eliot Jackson, and/or Aaron Gwin announcing is engaging content (at least for a certain relatively small demographic).
There are two simple ways to pay the riders for that content. Pay more prize money which seems the most logical as the top 20 finishers tend to provide the most excitement. Or pay them some sort of salary based on rankings (the best pitchers in baseball make more than 3rd string out fielders).
What we don't know is how much the broadcaster is making after all of there expenses, especially how much they pay the UCI. Since the UCI is selling the content should'tt the UCI be paying the talent? I mean the UCI does very little to produce the show yet they get the proceeds of the athletes' hard work.
Yup, its just cheap advertising for redbull.
It cost them a shit ton, but they made it back in drink sales.
I read at the time of the parachute from the balloon at the edge of space cost around $35-50mil but earned times times the amount back in sales.
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