I bet red bull got wind of the money and viewership of disc golf and decided to make the switch to a highly spectated and participated market. can't wait to see sponsored pros throwing red bull stamped discs 600+' or sinking a 60+' putt to take worlds. exciting times!
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
I used to watch dh wc in the 90s on eurosport. But thats when people had satellite tv.
In nz, sky broadcasts discovery and you cant stream on your tv unless it has a dish or arial (they use it to verify geo location not broadcast) so the world champs etc are stopped.
You can use a vpn, but it's so clunky compared to just your tv remote.
I'm scared the same will happen in 2023, and it'll be geoblocked nightmare with clunky IT workaround and ruin the experience.
Their Road racing coverage is paywalled under the GCN+ app, with the acquisition of the EWS rights and now potentially the WC DH, this will go to similar format and I'd hazard a very good guess at a GMBN+ app/subscription.
Unfortunately if you've ever had the misfortune of watching any of their Road race coverage, you'll know that its absolute garbage!
Unsure of how to feel on this, although I've thought the Red bull broadcasts have been a bit extra the last couple years with the somewhat inaccurate timer comparisons and super extreme graphics and music in some sections but if that's what it took to get it in front of my eyes, I'll take it all.
If I have to pay a couple bucks a year to get legitimately better coverage, then ok fine, but it would have to bring it up in a big way with camera and such, but for the most part, I think red bull had it pretty good with the angles and the mostly smooth follow drone shots. Hopefully Discovery is smart and looks at the last 13 season of winning evolution in DH broadcasting and doesn't fuck it up.
Warner is a must for me though. He and Freecaster brought me back from the verge of disinterested in DH in '08/09, I still remember those side by side shots of Cedric and Gee crushing those top corners in Andorra and just being stoked AF. I wonder if Warner contract with Red bull is bike related. I know he does announcing for lots of other redbull events and they did a ton of training for him when he started with them, but MTB is his bread and butter and what he knows best. If WC is gone he might done.
Another aspect is the larger side of sponsorship for the series, did Redbull having broadcasting rights and tight control on the series have anything to do with other companies passing on investment in DH? Monster for example obviously isn't going to pour as much as they could into a competitors product. They along cash to riders but not the series. This could open up the doors to new investment since it's now in a somewhat neutral party in discovery that might align better with some corporate values. Not saying it will but it's a maybe.
If all else fails, we can get Warner to start an Only Fans where everyone slings him a fiver and he can stream a webcam shot of the broadcast while he gets 8 deep in his underwear screaming look at the time.
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I...
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
Cheers
I really hope DH will never become part of Olympics. What they did with climbing was a piece of s***.
Finally a soft drink company with questionable money flow is not the face of Mountain Biking. The coverage has been awesome, but still. I agree with Rol above, that the kids should drink water or even coke rather than the "energy" shit from Red Bull. Red bull is only using this as a major marketing campaign to keep themselves as the major soft drink associated with extreme sports. I know it is a good thing for a lot of athletes who get their Red Bull helmets, but still, it is not good. Makken dropped Red Bull a couple of years ago. He dropped them.
Discovery has a good experience in covering all sorts of sports, so who knows, maybe we will be able to watch actual real time, not a select few riders?
Regarding GoPros at races. UCI introduced banning of GoPros for DH some years ago as a safety measure, where a waiver had to be signed to be able to run them. Using POV cameras for racing in a broadcasted event is not beneficial for the broadcaster, so having control is also a thing. Have anyone seen a non-redbull branded race run POVs from any Downhill World Cups the last years?
Finally a soft drink company with questionable money flow is not the face of Mountain Biking. The coverage has been awesome, but still. I agree with...
Finally a soft drink company with questionable money flow is not the face of Mountain Biking. The coverage has been awesome, but still. I agree with Rol above, that the kids should drink water or even coke rather than the "energy" shit from Red Bull. Red bull is only using this as a major marketing campaign to keep themselves as the major soft drink associated with extreme sports. I know it is a good thing for a lot of athletes who get their Red Bull helmets, but still, it is not good. Makken dropped Red Bull a couple of years ago. He dropped them.
Discovery has a good experience in covering all sorts of sports, so who knows, maybe we will be able to watch actual real time, not a select few riders?
Regarding GoPros at races. UCI introduced banning of GoPros for DH some years ago as a safety measure, where a waiver had to be signed to be able to run them. Using POV cameras for racing in a broadcasted event is not beneficial for the broadcaster, so having control is also a thing. Have anyone seen a non-redbull branded race run POVs from any Downhill World Cups the last years?
Your arguments make little sense.
Red Bull drink is marketed as a consume in moderation product, Coca-Cola is certainly not and the sugar and caffeine differences per serving are of negligible difference.
I'm not sure what questions you have about Red Bull's "money flow" but the drinks company is essentially a marketing company and off-shoots like Red Bull Media House (who do WC coverage) are, like their F1 teams, a part of their diversification away from beverages only.
As for POV footage from WC races, any rider can run a camera in finals if they sign waiver and they can share (although with a small RB logo). I don't see the issue? A company like Discovery will very likely put far more restrictions on media access, footage and riders own cameras than RB ever did.
I think the key point here is, will it bring more money to the athletes and teams?
I don't have a clue if RB was portraying the DH scene as niche sport for "wreckless dudes" and so they were paid like that and getting the type of sponsors according. I know how some still view DH.
Discovery may open doors for other type of sponsors but I'm almost sure the paywall will be there, at least in the mobile version of the broadcast. Thats what Eurosport does in Europe. But at least from what we've experienced, Eurosport is in the basic cable package (1 and 2 channels, in HD)
...with all this sudden loss of control, maybe RB has something up its sleeve and develop other areas of the sport, pay more money to their athletes. Not everything is lost in this process. I hope.
I just feel that sometimes big corporations like to keep and own some sports broadcast rights and then don't do them justice; commentators, camera positions, schedules, reruns, etc. All this can wreck or grow a sport.
We'll see.
Fair point; a mainstream media company like Discovery can potentially bring in mainstream sponsors into mountain biking.
However, Discovery will first need to make a compelling product for TV viewership. If we are to take last year's EWS coverage as precedence then it's not looking rosy at all for 2023.
Their Road racing coverage is paywalled under the GCN+ app, with the acquisition of the EWS rights and now potentially the WC DH, this will go...
Their Road racing coverage is paywalled under the GCN+ app, with the acquisition of the EWS rights and now potentially the WC DH, this will go to similar format and I'd hazard a very good guess at a GMBN+ app/subscription.
Unfortunately if you've ever had the misfortune of watching any of their Road race coverage, you'll know that its absolute garbage!
I'd rather fly to each race on my own dime than give those turds a single view/cent.
So this mean that riders will have a better pay, better insurance and health coverage in case of accidents due to higher exposure to media?.... Well we know the answer, the things will remanin the same for riders and the big money will go to the same companies than before and some new ones not sharing and giving a F...K about the sport. Anything that the UCI or big media touch become s...t.
I think if we go back far enough, everyone was concerned in the same way when Freecaster was pushed aside for Red Bull, with everyone getting angry and upset because Freecaster was good and RB would ruin the vibe/not be as good/change the sport etc.
I would like to think that DH being a part of Red Bull productions inherently made it a 'crazy action' sport as that's generally what people would think of RB sponsored series. Discovery could indeed bring bigger/corporate sponsors into DH and MTB as a whole, especially with XC getting much bigger with Olympic coverage and new courses. Did RB's production suit the 'vibe' of DH? Sure, but that has certainly changed with how serious training/racing has become in the past 5-7 years, which may suit Discovery more.
I didn't follow EWS at all last year, in part because of poor coverage. To be fair to Discovery, the previous live coverage of EWS was non-existent save for a few tweets from the EWS account. It may take a while to figure out how best to cover the racing action with video while having multiple geographically distinct stages and long days.
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I...
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
I really hope DH will never become part of Olympics. What they did with climbing was a piece of s***.
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring in climbing under one set of medals, they did this menage a trois for a single medal. Might be dumb, but I'm not complaining as we got a gold medal out of it
But yeah, don't really see DH as something that would make sense for the olympics, even though skiing is part of the winter olympics...
We all eat, breath, drink, some sort of "poison" knowingly or unknowingly all the time I get sick of hearing it every time energy drinks are mentioned, I wonder how many people that make "just drink water" comments are straightedges themselves. Most of that type say RedBull is poison, so is beer, soda, coffee, and Flint water. RB sells a product you can buy it or not, don't want a RB don't have one. Yes water is bette for you but, Water tv has really shitty coverage of DH, Rally, Dakar, or other fringe sports I would rather watch than football american or otherwise.*1
RB has made the sports I enjoy watching more visible to my eyes easier than any other company. They helped Rob Warner become a better ambassador to our sport, recognizing what he brought to the broadcast not some stuffed shirt. This is a chance Discovery would not have taken, when Warner went from drunk yelling hilarity to professional RB commentator. He can now have a career that is bigger than Downhill MTB but his passion/knowledge for the people and history of DH is what they recognized, that Rob would be better than any outsider. *2
I like the small can that is synonymous with RB and result of its occasional usage. By comparison I hate any version of Monster energy I have ever tried and its too much volume. But you know what? Monster supports Super-cross. I love Super-cross even if I don't like the M product again I love what they do for sports I like, SC being one of them. I will gladly deal with Monster commercials over and over again, even if I don't buy their product.
Freecaster had a vision for a sport I really enjoy, I have no idea how they made it as good as they did. RB saw it understood it, and they deserve credit for that. Maybe people just needed more helicopters over the track? Enduro isn't better with Discovery and IMHO RB almost changed the freecaster formula too much. But here we are a year from a paywall with most likely a commentator who would be better served announcing the PGA. *3
*1 While on this rant the idea that athletes who have walked from RB or Monster contracts are somehow noble for doing so is virtue signaling. I admittedly admire them walking away from the amounts of money they would have provided, but the individual moving forward from departure is partly made possible because of the initial payments funding the ability to walk away later. There is nothing wrong with deciding you don't like your current employer but one isn't noble for leaving it.
*2 Do you think a company that owns CNN would have hired Rob at the time RB did? (I don't).
*3 I can say is thank you caffeinated sugar water beverage companies, I would rather give you money than Halliburton or BlackRock.
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I...
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring...
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring in climbing under one set of medals, they did this menage a trois for a single medal. Might be dumb, but I'm not complaining as we got a gold medal out of it
But yeah, don't really see DH as something that would make sense for the olympics, even though skiing is part of the winter olympics...
Summer Olympics usually happen in flatter areas as well. Sure there might be some mountains on the outskirts but how many summer Olympics venues in the last 30 years have a race worthy mountain with infrastructure to manage an Olympic level downhill race within an hour's drive? Or are they supposed to dumb it down like they did with XC? That took years for XC to even start recovering from and it took redbull broadcasting the events to get it there.
I drive by arguably the worst world cup DH stop in memory, Calgary Olympic Park/Winsport every day to and from work. While it's cool to have a mini chair lift park in the city, it's no WC venue at 116m (Ive done a ski-mo race there, it's nothing to climb it) and that's all I can invision for an Olympic DH event, some side hill in a flat area.
4x or Slalom would have a chance. I think one of the best things about this past Olympics was the Ski cross. And 4x could be a super exciting spectator event that can take place in or around a city without needed 300+m of elevation drop to get a proper course.
Summer Olympics usually happen in flatter areas as well. Sure there might be some mountains on the outskirts but how many summer Olympics venues in the...
Summer Olympics usually happen in flatter areas as well. Sure there might be some mountains on the outskirts but how many summer Olympics venues in the last 30 years have a race worthy mountain with infrastructure to manage an Olympic level downhill race within an hour's drive? Or are they supposed to dumb it down like they did with XC? That took years for XC to even start recovering from and it took redbull broadcasting the events to get it there.
I drive by arguably the worst world cup DH stop in memory, Calgary Olympic Park/Winsport every day to and from work. While it's cool to have a mini chair lift park in the city, it's no WC venue at 116m (Ive done a ski-mo race there, it's nothing to climb it) and that's all I can invision for an Olympic DH event, some side hill in a flat area.
4x or Slalom would have a chance. I think one of the best things about this past Olympics was the Ski cross. And 4x could be a super exciting spectator event that can take place in or around a city without needed 300+m of elevation drop to get a proper course.
I think you're right in saying 4X would make for a much better fit in the Olympics, ski and boarder cross have proved very popular. Also the UCI have done damage enough, without getting the IOC involved.
As far as not having mountains near by, the Paris Olympic surfing will be held in Tahiti, so it kinda becomes moot.
Well, Sarajevo did host winter olympics in 84. And they do indeed have quite a hill basically in the city/behind the city (where the bobsleigh track is). And they even had a DH race in the city a few years ago! :D
Without having to heavily modify DH courses for camera access, I think it’s hard to improve on the red bull coverage at this point. All along I would have gladly paid $50 a season for expanded coverage (woulda been nice to see full runs when a mod pack rider lays down a heater, for example). Warner and Eliot Jackson were starting to work together quite well, with Eliot’s technical knowledge and Rob being Rob.
If Discovery can actually bring in a larger audience, well, hopefully that works well for the riders. Keep hopes high and expectations low. It’s been a great run these past 10 years to watch the Red Bull coverage. My only hope is that this doesn’t kill Mtb again and we hit another mid 2000s dead zone
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring...
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring in climbing under one set of medals, they did this menage a trois for a single medal. Might be dumb, but I'm not complaining as we got a gold medal out of it
But yeah, don't really see DH as something that would make sense for the olympics, even though skiing is part of the winter olympics...
Summer Olympics usually happen in flatter areas as well. Sure there might be some mountains on the outskirts but how many summer Olympics venues in the...
Summer Olympics usually happen in flatter areas as well. Sure there might be some mountains on the outskirts but how many summer Olympics venues in the last 30 years have a race worthy mountain with infrastructure to manage an Olympic level downhill race within an hour's drive? Or are they supposed to dumb it down like they did with XC? That took years for XC to even start recovering from and it took redbull broadcasting the events to get it there.
I drive by arguably the worst world cup DH stop in memory, Calgary Olympic Park/Winsport every day to and from work. While it's cool to have a mini chair lift park in the city, it's no WC venue at 116m (Ive done a ski-mo race there, it's nothing to climb it) and that's all I can invision for an Olympic DH event, some side hill in a flat area.
4x or Slalom would have a chance. I think one of the best things about this past Olympics was the Ski cross. And 4x could be a super exciting spectator event that can take place in or around a city without needed 300+m of elevation drop to get a proper course.
4x or slalom getting rejuvenated would maybe be great for a larger TV audience. That could be a worthwhile thing Discovery brings back. XC riders are doing short track and the regular race so maybe we’d see DH riders doing 4x and DH, but with the increased risk of injury I suspect those days are gone except for riders like Brendog, Kaos, Kerr.
I think if we go back far enough, everyone was concerned in the same way when Freecaster was pushed aside for Red Bull, with everyone getting...
I think if we go back far enough, everyone was concerned in the same way when Freecaster was pushed aside for Red Bull, with everyone getting angry and upset because Freecaster was good and RB would ruin the vibe/not be as good/change the sport etc.
I would like to think that DH being a part of Red Bull productions inherently made it a 'crazy action' sport as that's generally what people would think of RB sponsored series. Discovery could indeed bring bigger/corporate sponsors into DH and MTB as a whole, especially with XC getting much bigger with Olympic coverage and new courses. Did RB's production suit the 'vibe' of DH? Sure, but that has certainly changed with how serious training/racing has become in the past 5-7 years, which may suit Discovery more.
I didn't follow EWS at all last year, in part because of poor coverage. To be fair to Discovery, the previous live coverage of EWS was non-existent save for a few tweets from the EWS account. It may take a while to figure out how best to cover the racing action with video while having multiple geographically distinct stages and long days.
Admittedly there wasn’t much live coverage at all, however they did do full course previews and I did watch and enjoy every post event show that they did release, and it did come out pretty fast.
Last years GMBN attempt was awful. I watched probably 2 events worth then gave up. The previews were patchy at best and the post event coverage was just boring. I enjoyed the individual riders POV footage from YouTube much more.
If DH goes to GMBN then they completely need to get their acts together. As it is they will not do the sport justice at all.
I think you're right in saying 4X would make for a much better fit in the Olympics, ski and boarder cross have proved very popular. Also...
I think you're right in saying 4X would make for a much better fit in the Olympics, ski and boarder cross have proved very popular. Also the UCI have done damage enough, without getting the IOC involved.
As far as not having mountains near by, the Paris Olympic surfing will be held in Tahiti, so it kinda becomes moot.
4X would look too much like BMX so I doubt the UCI would bring it to the Olympics.
The XCO track and event for Tokyo 2020 was in Izu, Shizuoka (145 km from Tokyo). The event was executed well and the track was a TRUE mtb track. The coverage was not as good as what everyone is used to from Red Bull Media, unfortunately. I've seen the European and US broadcasts and there definitely are many areas for improvement.
I have a strong feeling the Discovery coverage in the first year would be very similar from how the XCO race in the Olympics was broadcast. I do hope they improve quickly and succeed because, at the end of the day, a better coverage will be better for the sport.
Off-Topic:
I personally believe downhill would be a good fit in the Olympics but the event has to be executed well and should be consistent with how World Cups and World Championships are done. I foresee very few potential Olympic hosts without a location that has at least 300 meters of elevation (heck they were able to do a World Cup in Losinj).
The organizer can get someone like Martin Whiteley and/or Neko Mulally as consultants to make sure everything's up to snuff. I also doubt Simon Burney will let the organizer get away with a bad track and bad prep.
Couple of thoughts.. indirectly related to this thread.
The problem we face is one of worry. Worry over the uncertainty of the quality of product and production of the live feed. How it showcases our sport to both us, the core audience and to the larger outside world. That is the fundamental issue. We shouldn't have to worry about it, in an ideal world we should automatically assume any change was made for the good, they chose Discovery because they presented a better tender and had a bigger brighter vision for the sport in the next 8 years. But because of our experience with how UCI has made similar decisions in the past we cant be so sure.
Which leads me to my next point. The riders (and Elite Teams) don't have enough of a say in how they sport is run. They put forward suggestions and do get votes or says on smaller decisions but ultimately everything important is dictated by the UCI or decisions made regardless of consultation or opinion.
Looking at surfing - (I know not comparing apples to apples) but the top (34 male, 17 female) surfers on the Elite Championship tour have a 10% controlling interest in the World Surf League. Without the surfers their is simply no show. Championship Surfing live feed has less views than Red Bull's World Cup Downhill feed. They have 11 events, Prize money is $80 000 for first - $9750 for last place (33rd) Thats over 100K prize money alone for coming last each event if you have made it on to the Elite Tour for that year. - Their Finals (like our World Champs) offers $200 000 prize money for first.
Sure their event sponsorship fees are bigger than what MTB events are asking for and they have a billionaire owner but surely with a much bigger live audience MTB can move in that direction too.
They also have an interesting kind of Pension fund. - "“Every year, the WSL allocates a sum of money, as well as a $1,000,000 seed fund that generates earnings to be split among all 51 surfers — 34 guys, 17 girls — regardless of their rankings. Five years after you officially retire or fall off the CT, even if you’re still doing the QS, you are eligible to withdraw your funds.” - Surfers contribute $200 per event out of their prize money - Easy to do when even getting last and making $9750
The top elite riders and teams need to realise their worth as an entertainment product for organisations and media rights holders and get taken care of a bit better and have a bit more of a say in how how our sport is managed and broadcasted to the World.
Another point - It's only a matter of time before DH will enter the olympics. Surfing is now a PERMANENT summer olympic fixture. With streaming and satelight broadcast the host city need not have a mountain - case in point The Paris summer olympics surfing location is Tahiti.
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I...
Hello,
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring...
AFAIK Olympics has a set number of medal sets. So to bring a sport in, another one has to be dropped. Because they could only bring in climbing under one set of medals, they did this menage a trois for a single medal. Might be dumb, but I'm not complaining as we got a gold medal out of it
But yeah, don't really see DH as something that would make sense for the olympics, even though skiing is part of the winter olympics...
Have heard from staff that in the lead up to the 2032 olympic bid for Brisbane, officials inspected and planned a rough course for a DH mtb track approx 1hr 10mm away from the CBD at a well known (to locals) trail network. Im sure this would have been one of a few potential locations to host.
What I’m most worried about is Red Bull was definitely under the impression that all good coverage is good for them. They have helped cathro along instead of stifled him. There has always been a fair number of unofficial media at the tracks and they are treated fairly if they aren’t a total ignoramous. They have also put the effort into improving the product. Was not uncommon for them to change an angle between a double header to better show a portion of track and they have done this over the years at all the tracks. Dh is an incredibly difficult sport to televise and they have found a way to package it that can appeal to anyone with eyeballs. I have an old roommate that still watches races and texts me about them even though the kid doesn’t even ride a road bike let alone a mtb.
Most media companies do not operate this way. They see other players as competition for advertising dollars. They also have no issue paying for something they know will return investment and not put in the difficult and often less profitable (even if revenue is much higher) process of growing a company or product.
Red Bull media was a wierd match made in heaven where one of the biggest companies in the world’s brand identity is built around it’s influence in culture heavy niche sports. They hired people who understood culture first and trained them to do the media job. Rob Warner is the perfect example of that and he is one of the best things in the sport currently. Without Red Bull he’d be the drunk free caster guy.
Bike brands should be heavily reconsidering if the uci is the correct governing body for riding on dirt. Cause they just divorced the company that imo is doing more than any actual bike company to promote mtb in the mainstream. Luckily I doubt it would happen but imagine if redbull responded by getting out of the sport all together. That would have far bigger implications then whatever growth the uci thinks discovery can bring their race series (which I think is highly highly questionable).
What I’m most worried about is Red Bull was definitely under the impression that all good coverage is good for them. They have helped cathro along...
What I’m most worried about is Red Bull was definitely under the impression that all good coverage is good for them. They have helped cathro along instead of stifled him. There has always been a fair number of unofficial media at the tracks and they are treated fairly if they aren’t a total ignoramous. They have also put the effort into improving the product. Was not uncommon for them to change an angle between a double header to better show a portion of track and they have done this over the years at all the tracks. Dh is an incredibly difficult sport to televise and they have found a way to package it that can appeal to anyone with eyeballs. I have an old roommate that still watches races and texts me about them even though the kid doesn’t even ride a road bike let alone a mtb.
Most media companies do not operate this way. They see other players as competition for advertising dollars. They also have no issue paying for something they know will return investment and not put in the difficult and often less profitable (even if revenue is much higher) process of growing a company or product.
Red Bull media was a wierd match made in heaven where one of the biggest companies in the world’s brand identity is built around it’s influence in culture heavy niche sports. They hired people who understood culture first and trained them to do the media job. Rob Warner is the perfect example of that and he is one of the best things in the sport currently. Without Red Bull he’d be the drunk free caster guy.
Bike brands should be heavily reconsidering if the uci is the correct governing body for riding on dirt. Cause they just divorced the company that imo is doing more than any actual bike company to promote mtb in the mainstream. Luckily I doubt it would happen but imagine if redbull responded by getting out of the sport all together. That would have far bigger implications then whatever growth the uci thinks discovery can bring their race series (which I think is highly highly questionable).
Cathro and others only got the chance to use their own trackside footage after some discussions and complaining to RB Media. There was some kerfuffle when someone posted a video to YouTube of their own footage and RB shut it all down, before gradually allowing a certain number of minutes of footage to be filmed per day over the race weekend. I don't recall specifics or if it was because they were making money off of the footage vs private viewing.
I can't remember when it was exactly but there was a time when Cathro had to do recap videos without his own footage and even had to do them off site since no filming was allowed on the venue.
Cathro and others only got the chance to use their own trackside footage after some discussions and complaining to RB Media. There was some kerfuffle when...
Cathro and others only got the chance to use their own trackside footage after some discussions and complaining to RB Media. There was some kerfuffle when someone posted a video to YouTube of their own footage and RB shut it all down, before gradually allowing a certain number of minutes of footage to be filmed per day over the race weekend. I don't recall specifics or if it was because they were making money off of the footage vs private viewing.
I can't remember when it was exactly but there was a time when Cathro had to do recap videos without his own footage and even had to do them off site since no filming was allowed on the venue.
i'm not 100% positive, but based on our experience, it may have been UCI, not RB, that put footage restrictions in place.
I was never a fan of RedBull using DH as major marketing platform. I think the kids should drink water and be healthy.
But I am a major fan of what they have done to DH in the last 10 years and I hope the UCI do make wise decisions that are best for the sport when switching the media company. There are bigger markets and audiences to be conquested and I think the the DH coverage can make it. A bit like ski DH WC. With global warming many ski stations will be seeking for new possibilities to make money and publicitiy. How to do it better then with a good DH broadcast? With bigger markets there will be bigger sponsor. And more sponsors. What meand more teams, more racing etc.
I think it is a wise thing to do to to use a bigger and better organised structure to grow MTB. I follow racing since 1990 and totally love what it has become. Even many keyboard worriors here dont like change all changes actually where quite good. The worst decision ever to be made was to limit participants in WC at the beginning of the 2000s and keep good publicity away from second level racing. To not really promote the IXS cup and other series. That was one of the most limiting factors for the growth of DH and profitied a lot the rise of Enduro 180/180mm bikes. The real reason why DH bikes died.
I really would like to see more races and just a very small "off-season", a real DH WC as top level racing with 14-18 races on all continents and a race in the Olympics. Crossing the fingers to see this in 10 years from now.
Cheers
In nz, sky broadcasts discovery and you cant stream on your tv unless it has a dish or arial (they use it to verify geo location not broadcast) so the world champs etc are stopped.
You can use a vpn, but it's so clunky compared to just your tv remote.
I'm scared the same will happen in 2023, and it'll be geoblocked nightmare with clunky IT workaround and ruin the experience.
Unfortunately if you've ever had the misfortune of watching any of their Road race coverage, you'll know that its absolute garbage!
If I have to pay a couple bucks a year to get legitimately better coverage, then ok fine, but it would have to bring it up in a big way with camera and such, but for the most part, I think red bull had it pretty good with the angles and the mostly smooth follow drone shots. Hopefully Discovery is smart and looks at the last 13 season of winning evolution in DH broadcasting and doesn't fuck it up.
Warner is a must for me though. He and Freecaster brought me back from the verge of disinterested in DH in '08/09, I still remember those side by side shots of Cedric and Gee crushing those top corners in Andorra and just being stoked AF. I wonder if Warner contract with Red bull is bike related. I know he does announcing for lots of other redbull events and they did a ton of training for him when he started with them, but MTB is his bread and butter and what he knows best. If WC is gone he might done.
Another aspect is the larger side of sponsorship for the series, did Redbull having broadcasting rights and tight control on the series have anything to do with other companies passing on investment in DH? Monster for example obviously isn't going to pour as much as they could into a competitors product. They along cash to riders but not the series. This could open up the doors to new investment since it's now in a somewhat neutral party in discovery that might align better with some corporate values. Not saying it will but it's a maybe.
If all else fails, we can get Warner to start an Only Fans where everyone slings him a fiver and he can stream a webcam shot of the broadcast while he gets 8 deep in his underwear screaming look at the time.
Discovery has a good experience in covering all sorts of sports, so who knows, maybe we will be able to watch actual real time, not a select few riders?
Regarding GoPros at races. UCI introduced banning of GoPros for DH some years ago as a safety measure, where a waiver had to be signed to be able to run them. Using POV cameras for racing in a broadcasted event is not beneficial for the broadcaster, so having control is also a thing. Have anyone seen a non-redbull branded race run POVs from any Downhill World Cups the last years?
Red Bull drink is marketed as a consume in moderation product, Coca-Cola is certainly not and the sugar and caffeine differences per serving are of negligible difference.
I'm not sure what questions you have about Red Bull's "money flow" but the drinks company is essentially a marketing company and off-shoots like Red Bull Media House (who do WC coverage) are, like their F1 teams, a part of their diversification away from beverages only.
As for POV footage from WC races, any rider can run a camera in finals if they sign waiver and they can share (although with a small RB logo). I don't see the issue? A company like Discovery will very likely put far more restrictions on media access, footage and riders own cameras than RB ever did.
I don't have a clue if RB was portraying the DH scene as niche sport for "wreckless dudes" and so they were paid like that and getting the type of sponsors according. I know how some still view DH.
Discovery may open doors for other type of sponsors but I'm almost sure the paywall will be there, at least in the mobile version of the broadcast. Thats what Eurosport does in Europe. But at least from what we've experienced, Eurosport is in the basic cable package (1 and 2 channels, in HD)
...with all this sudden loss of control, maybe RB has something up its sleeve and develop other areas of the sport, pay more money to their athletes. Not everything is lost in this process. I hope.
I just feel that sometimes big corporations like to keep and own some sports broadcast rights and then don't do them justice; commentators, camera positions, schedules, reruns, etc. All this can wreck or grow a sport.
We'll see.
However, Discovery will first need to make a compelling product for TV viewership. If we are to take last year's EWS coverage as precedence then it's not looking rosy at all for 2023.
I would like to think that DH being a part of Red Bull productions inherently made it a 'crazy action' sport as that's generally what people would think of RB sponsored series. Discovery could indeed bring bigger/corporate sponsors into DH and MTB as a whole, especially with XC getting much bigger with Olympic coverage and new courses. Did RB's production suit the 'vibe' of DH? Sure, but that has certainly changed with how serious training/racing has become in the past 5-7 years, which may suit Discovery more.
I didn't follow EWS at all last year, in part because of poor coverage. To be fair to Discovery, the previous live coverage of EWS was non-existent save for a few tweets from the EWS account. It may take a while to figure out how best to cover the racing action with video while having multiple geographically distinct stages and long days.
But yeah, don't really see DH as something that would make sense for the olympics, even though skiing is part of the winter olympics...
RB has made the sports I enjoy watching more visible to my eyes easier than any other company. They helped Rob Warner become a better ambassador to our sport, recognizing what he brought to the broadcast not some stuffed shirt. This is a chance Discovery would not have taken, when Warner went from drunk yelling hilarity to professional RB commentator. He can now have a career that is bigger than Downhill MTB but his passion/knowledge for the people and history of DH is what they recognized, that Rob would be better than any outsider. *2
I like the small can that is synonymous with RB and result of its occasional usage. By comparison I hate any version of Monster energy I have ever tried and its too much volume. But you know what? Monster supports Super-cross. I love Super-cross even if I don't like the M product again I love what they do for sports I like, SC being one of them. I will gladly deal with Monster commercials over and over again, even if I don't buy their product.
Freecaster had a vision for a sport I really enjoy, I have no idea how they made it as good as they did. RB saw it understood it, and they deserve credit for that. Maybe people just needed more helicopters over the track? Enduro isn't better with Discovery and IMHO RB almost changed the freecaster formula too much. But here we are a year from a paywall with most likely a commentator who would be better served announcing the PGA. *3
*1 While on this rant the idea that athletes who have walked from RB or Monster contracts are somehow noble for doing so is virtue signaling. I admittedly admire them walking away from the amounts of money they would have provided, but the individual moving forward from departure is partly made possible because of the initial payments funding the ability to walk away later. There is nothing wrong with deciding you don't like your current employer but one isn't noble for leaving it.
*2 Do you think a company that owns CNN would have hired Rob at the time RB did? (I don't).
*3 I can say is thank you caffeinated sugar water beverage companies, I would rather give you money than Halliburton or BlackRock.
But of course I will watch. And of course I'll pay to watch live*. But how on earth will it be even close to Red Bull's current coverage?
UCI sucks.
*these guys will show it live, right?
ugh
I drive by arguably the worst world cup DH stop in memory, Calgary Olympic Park/Winsport every day to and from work. While it's cool to have a mini chair lift park in the city, it's no WC venue at 116m (Ive done a ski-mo race there, it's nothing to climb it) and that's all I can invision for an Olympic DH event, some side hill in a flat area.
4x or Slalom would have a chance. I think one of the best things about this past Olympics was the Ski cross. And 4x could be a super exciting spectator event that can take place in or around a city without needed 300+m of elevation drop to get a proper course.
As far as not having mountains near by, the Paris Olympic surfing will be held in Tahiti, so it kinda becomes moot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IScq-BBTsYM
DH in Summer Olympic games Sarajevo 2036 anyone?
(I'll show myself out.)
If Discovery can actually bring in a larger audience, well, hopefully that works well for the riders. Keep hopes high and expectations low. It’s been a great run these past 10 years to watch the Red Bull coverage. My only hope is that this doesn’t kill Mtb again and we hit another mid 2000s dead zone
Last years GMBN attempt was awful. I watched probably 2 events worth then gave up. The previews were patchy at best and the post event coverage was just boring. I enjoyed the individual riders POV footage from YouTube much more.
If DH goes to GMBN then they completely need to get their acts together. As it is they will not do the sport justice at all.
The XCO track and event for Tokyo 2020 was in Izu, Shizuoka (145 km from Tokyo). The event was executed well and the track was a TRUE mtb track. The coverage was not as good as what everyone is used to from Red Bull Media, unfortunately. I've seen the European and US broadcasts and there definitely are many areas for improvement.
I have a strong feeling the Discovery coverage in the first year would be very similar from how the XCO race in the Olympics was broadcast. I do hope they improve quickly and succeed because, at the end of the day, a better coverage will be better for the sport.
Off-Topic:
I personally believe downhill would be a good fit in the Olympics but the event has to be executed well and should be consistent with how World Cups and World Championships are done. I foresee very few potential Olympic hosts without a location that has at least 300 meters of elevation (heck they were able to do a World Cup in Losinj).
The organizer can get someone like Martin Whiteley and/or Neko Mulally as consultants to make sure everything's up to snuff. I also doubt Simon Burney will let the organizer get away with a bad track and bad prep.
The problem we face is one of worry. Worry over the uncertainty of the quality of product and production of the live feed. How it showcases our sport to both us, the core audience and to the larger outside world. That is the fundamental issue. We shouldn't have to worry about it, in an ideal world we should automatically assume any change was made for the good, they chose Discovery because they presented a better tender and had a bigger brighter vision for the sport in the next 8 years. But because of our experience with how UCI has made similar decisions in the past we cant be so sure.
Which leads me to my next point. The riders (and Elite Teams) don't have enough of a say in how they sport is run. They put forward suggestions and do get votes or says on smaller decisions but ultimately everything important is dictated by the UCI or decisions made regardless of consultation or opinion.
Looking at surfing - (I know not comparing apples to apples) but the top (34 male, 17 female) surfers on the Elite Championship tour have a 10% controlling interest in the World Surf League. Without the surfers their is simply no show. Championship Surfing live feed has less views than Red Bull's World Cup Downhill feed. They have 11 events, Prize money is $80 000 for first - $9750 for last place (33rd) Thats over 100K prize money alone for coming last each event if you have made it on to the Elite Tour for that year. - Their Finals (like our World Champs) offers $200 000 prize money for first.
Sure their event sponsorship fees are bigger than what MTB events are asking for and they have a billionaire owner but surely with a much bigger live audience MTB can move in that direction too.
They also have an interesting kind of Pension fund. - "“Every year, the WSL allocates a sum of money, as well as a $1,000,000 seed fund that generates earnings to be split among all 51 surfers — 34 guys, 17 girls — regardless of their rankings. Five years after you officially retire or fall off the CT, even if you’re still doing the QS, you are eligible to withdraw your funds.” - Surfers contribute $200 per event out of their prize money - Easy to do when even getting last and making $9750
The top elite riders and teams need to realise their worth as an entertainment product for organisations and media rights holders and get taken care of a bit better and have a bit more of a say in how how our sport is managed and broadcasted to the World.
Another point - It's only a matter of time before DH will enter the olympics. Surfing is now a PERMANENT summer olympic fixture. With streaming and satelight broadcast the host city need not have a mountain - case in point The Paris summer olympics surfing location is Tahiti.
Most media companies do not operate this way. They see other players as competition for advertising dollars. They also have no issue paying for something they know will return investment and not put in the difficult and often less profitable (even if revenue is much higher) process of growing a company or product.
Red Bull media was a wierd match made in heaven where one of the biggest companies in the world’s brand identity is built around it’s influence in culture heavy niche sports. They hired people who understood culture first and trained them to do the media job. Rob Warner is the perfect example of that and he is one of the best things in the sport currently. Without Red Bull he’d be the drunk free caster guy.
Bike brands should be heavily reconsidering if the uci is the correct governing body for riding on dirt. Cause they just divorced the company that imo is doing more than any actual bike company to promote mtb in the mainstream. Luckily I doubt it would happen but imagine if redbull responded by getting out of the sport all together. That would have far bigger implications then whatever growth the uci thinks discovery can bring their race series (which I think is highly highly questionable).
I can't remember when it was exactly but there was a time when Cathro had to do recap videos without his own footage and even had to do them off site since no filming was allowed on the venue.
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