I've had that conversation with someone (triathlete) about a year after they launched the new RED.
"My gears are slipping"
'Your inner chainring is really badly...
I've had that conversation with someone (triathlete) about a year after they launched the new RED.
"My gears are slipping"
'Your inner chainring is really badly worn and chain wear is waaay past 1%'
"oh ....I've only done 8k on it" (seemingly without ever cleaning it)
'and it's one piece with the outer ring and power meter.....but SRAM do a trade in service at 50% discount'
"oh that is a relief I thought it was going to be expensive!!"
'Well the original price is £800, so it's still £400 plus a chain and a cassette at £350 and labour'
It took about 35 minutes for them to calm down including threatening to call trading standards and the police.
About 6 months later they came back complaining about their brakes making a funny noise.......worn through the pads,the backing plate and into the pistons.
We had to introduce a "piss charge" of $100 for hosing the tri bikes down before the techs worked on them. IYKYK.
We had to introduce a "piss charge" of $100 for hosing the tri bikes down before the techs worked on them. IYKYK.
In one of the shops I worked at, in the customer notes on Ascend if it said “every second counts” that meant they pissed on their bike and any service performed had an additional $50 cleaning charge.
Muscle mass and height can attribute to weight too. I know a lot of riders over 200lbs that are super strong and I’d be surprised if...
Muscle mass and height can attribute to weight too. I know a lot of riders over 200lbs that are super strong and I’d be surprised if most elite DH or enduro riders over 6ft aren’t close to or over that.
I am 210 due to pizza, beer and cake less than gym time, but that’s not everyone.
How many World Cup riders are 200+, in your estimation? I’d say zero.
Similar to the moto world, the pros ride bigger, even if their weight doesn't match what they're riding. It's been pointed out before that guys like Goldstone, Rude, etc are running spring rates above their recommended weight. Same can be said for brakes. It's likely not a good example to use.
Interesting comments from Ed Haythornthwaite (Robot Bike Co founder and ex Atherton) over on PB about the S170.
The guy has some very good credentials, but its hard to decide whether to take the comments seriously or with a pinch of salt as they're from an obviously disgruntled ex member of the team.
Interesting comments from Ed Haythornthwaite (Robot Bike Co founder and ex Atherton) over on PB about the S170.
The guy has some very good credentials, but...
Interesting comments from Ed Haythornthwaite (Robot Bike Co founder and ex Atherton) over on PB about the S170.
The guy has some very good credentials, but its hard to decide whether to take the comments seriously or with a pinch of salt as they're from an obviously disgruntled ex member of the team.
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a possible justification for a higher price (thus possibly a higher margin).
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a...
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a possible justification for a higher price (thus possibly a higher margin).
Guys who are tech geniuses aren't always the best marketing guru.
I get why Atherton came out with the alloy/alloy bonded frames. It's on brand. Visual & design cues match what people expect from the brand.
Producing a welded bike would be just one more welded bike.
And we've seen Pivot not be able to translate the aesthetic of DW-Link bikes that was so popular with Iron Horse over to their alloy frames. I can't imagine an Atherton buyer getting even slightly stoked by "one more alloy frame".
They'd just put it next to an Ibis or Pivot and pick it apart.
Don't get it what the big deal with mentioning Pinkbike is... I feel the community and the vibe there is far from good, but is there a need to skirt around the name too? It's not like we're talking about Voldermort...
I’ve always assumed it was one of the unwritten rules we’re not supposed to talk about.
Despite what Ed says, I’m in the market the S170 is top of my list and i might have some funds for a frame when our house sale goes through in a few weeks… if my wifenancial advisor gives permission of course.
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a...
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a possible justification for a higher price (thus possibly a higher margin).
Guys who are tech geniuses aren't always the best marketing guru.
I get why Atherton came out with the alloy/alloy bonded frames. It's on brand. Visual...
Guys who are tech geniuses aren't always the best marketing guru.
I get why Atherton came out with the alloy/alloy bonded frames. It's on brand. Visual & design cues match what people expect from the brand.
Producing a welded bike would be just one more welded bike.
And we've seen Pivot not be able to translate the aesthetic of DW-Link bikes that was so popular with Iron Horse over to their alloy frames. I can't imagine an Atherton buyer getting even slightly stoked by "one more alloy frame".
They'd just put it next to an Ibis or Pivot and pick it apart.
Spot on, for this brand to make a welded frame makes no sense from a brand/marketing lens. The aluminum lug keeps the DNA and the exclusive feel that they started.
it also seems that Atherton is really pushing the S170 as a park, rugged bike you can beat up and it will last. It’s a cool angle because that’s how I feel with my unpainted steel bike. Just throw it in the truck, mash it, no worry for scratch or dent carbon.
Even more so: "The concept of endurance limit was introduced in 1870 by August Wöhler.[15] However, recent research suggests that endurance limits do not exist for metallic materials, that if enough stress cycles are performed, even the smallest stress will eventually produce fatigue failure.[7][16]"
It's the cyclic nature of the loads that mean an aluminium frame will crack sooner or later. It's not a years thing, it's a number of cycles, severity of the loads and the design that dictate when a crack will start forming.
Anyone know what the fatigue life of 7075 is?
I’ve been under the impression that an aluminium frame will have a usable life of 5 years...
Anyone know what the fatigue life of 7075 is?
I’ve been under the impression that an aluminium frame will have a usable life of 5 years before it starts to get “brittle”.
Is 7075 the same/similar in that respect?
Every aluminum frame I've ever owned has cracked, even my scandium Konas. Clearly, in practical applications for mountain bikes, 7075 isn't lighter than traditional welded 6000 series aluminum, so I hope it does have a longer "endurance limit" for mountain bike applications.
Overall ultimate tensile strength is the benefit of 7075 which in turn makes the fatigue limit higher, meaning it will deal with either higher load severity with the same number of cycles or more cycles at the same load severity.
Welding is the biggest liability and point of failure on an Al frame. Avoiding welding removes a factor that relies on human skill and is hard to control, although before the switch to C, Al welding and forming was getting much better, the top end Al frames ~10 years ago or so were pretty nice and it looked like many welds were automated. These days though, Al is made heavy and cheap.
I agree with Primoz about 7075, UTS is much higher, this can definitely be used to increase reliability or cut weight. I don't understand the thought that 7075 doesn't offer some major advantages over 6000 series Al.
IMO, outside of high end automated welding and forming of Al, which nobody does anymore, avoiding a welded Al frame makes a lot more sense to me.
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames and paid a premium for them. GT's I believe? Is it just harder to weld or harder to heat treat?
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames...
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames and paid a premium for them. GT's I believe? Is it just harder to weld or harder to heat treat?
7005 (and some others in 7000-series) is weldable, when welding 7075 is "not recommended" (can't exactly explain why tho'...).
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames...
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames and paid a premium for them. GT's I believe? Is it just harder to weld or harder to heat treat?
7075 can't be welded*
6061 and 7005 are the most common for welded frames.
*someone's going to point out the research paper that a lab somewhere did it. But it might be decades until that is proven to be reliable, or it might never prove to be reliable. I'm not a betting man,but I'd bet on flying cars being available before welded 7075.
pretty sure that constitutes child abuse
In one of the shops I worked at, in the customer notes on Ascend if it said “every second counts” that meant they pissed on their bike and any service performed had an additional $50 cleaning charge.
Nah...it was out there for everyone to see.
Haven't seen a media pic of it though. Maybe it wasn't that special after all.
that looks like some terrible dropper insertion length. Santas and Spesh Enduro have both lower mounted shocks by the looks of it
name checks out
Agreed. Plus it looks so derivative they might as well rename it the Hyde.
if you're reaching for insults & butthurt, you're gonna need to dig deeper.
Similar to the moto world, the pros ride bigger, even if their weight doesn't match what they're riding. It's been pointed out before that guys like Goldstone, Rude, etc are running spring rates above their recommended weight. Same can be said for brakes. It's likely not a good example to use.
Both of you…
Interesting comments from Ed Haythornthwaite (Robot Bike Co founder and ex Atherton) over on PB about the S170.
The guy has some very good credentials, but its hard to decide whether to take the comments seriously or with a pinch of salt as they're from an obviously disgruntled ex member of the team.
Edit:
Ty sethimus
too hard to take a screenshot ffs?
And the comments are? Copy paste or Screenshots please? I'm guessing they are in the comments under the release article?
how you do it right:
Wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of bonded frames is a marketing/sales benefit over welding frames... A factor of standing out from the crowd and a possible justification for a higher price (thus possibly a higher margin).
Guys who are tech geniuses aren't always the best marketing guru.
I get why Atherton came out with the alloy/alloy bonded frames. It's on brand. Visual & design cues match what people expect from the brand.
Producing a welded bike would be just one more welded bike.
And we've seen Pivot not be able to translate the aesthetic of DW-Link bikes that was so popular with Iron Horse over to their alloy frames. I can't imagine an Atherton buyer getting even slightly stoked by "one more alloy frame".
They'd just put it next to an Ibis or Pivot and pick it apart.
Sorry, thought I had.
Rushed post before I took my wife out for lunch. I'd sooner piss off a bunch a forum nerds than her.
Lets face it though I would've got in shit with someone for daring to mention "the other site".
Don't get it what the big deal with mentioning Pinkbike is... I feel the community and the vibe there is far from good, but is there a need to skirt around the name too? It's not like we're talking about Voldermort...
I’ve always assumed it was one of the unwritten rules we’re not supposed to talk about.
Despite what Ed says, I’m in the market the S170 is top of my list and i might have some funds for a frame when our house sale goes through in a few weeks… if my wifenancial advisor gives permission of course.
Spot on, for this brand to make a welded frame makes no sense from a brand/marketing lens. The aluminum lug keeps the DNA and the exclusive feel that they started.
it also seems that Atherton is really pushing the S170 as a park, rugged bike you can beat up and it will last. It’s a cool angle because that’s how I feel with my unpainted steel bike. Just throw it in the truck, mash it, no worry for scratch or dent carbon.
Anyone know what the fatigue life of 7075 is?
I’ve been under the impression that an aluminium frame will have a usable life of 5 years before it starts to get “brittle”.
Is 7075 the same/similar in that respect?
It is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_limit
Even more so: "The concept of endurance limit was introduced in 1870 by August Wöhler.[15] However, recent research suggests that endurance limits do not exist for metallic materials, that if enough stress cycles are performed, even the smallest stress will eventually produce fatigue failure.[7][16]"
It's the cyclic nature of the loads that mean an aluminium frame will crack sooner or later. It's not a years thing, it's a number of cycles, severity of the loads and the design that dictate when a crack will start forming.
IIRC one of the main advantages of 7075 over 6061 is improved fatigue life.
I'm not an expert, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I'm off base.
Every aluminum frame I've ever owned has cracked, even my scandium Konas. Clearly, in practical applications for mountain bikes, 7075 isn't lighter than traditional welded 6000 series aluminum, so I hope it does have a longer "endurance limit" for mountain bike applications.
Overall ultimate tensile strength is the benefit of 7075 which in turn makes the fatigue limit higher, meaning it will deal with either higher load severity with the same number of cycles or more cycles at the same load severity.
Welding is the biggest liability and point of failure on an Al frame. Avoiding welding removes a factor that relies on human skill and is hard to control, although before the switch to C, Al welding and forming was getting much better, the top end Al frames ~10 years ago or so were pretty nice and it looked like many welds were automated. These days though, Al is made heavy and cheap.
I agree with Primoz about 7075, UTS is much higher, this can definitely be used to increase reliability or cut weight. I don't understand the thought that 7075 doesn't offer some major advantages over 6000 series Al.
IMO, outside of high end automated welding and forming of Al, which nobody does anymore, avoiding a welded Al frame makes a lot more sense to me.
So, somewhere a couple pages back, someone stated that 7000 seres aluminum can't be welded. But I swear I've had a couple of 7000 series frames and paid a premium for them. GT's I believe? Is it just harder to weld or harder to heat treat?
7005 (and some others in 7000-series) is weldable, when welding 7075 is "not recommended" (can't exactly explain why tho'...).
7075 can't be welded*
6061 and 7005 are the most common for welded frames.
*someone's going to point out the research paper that a lab somewhere did it. But it might be decades until that is proven to be reliable, or it might never prove to be reliable. I'm not a betting man,but I'd bet on flying cars being available before welded 7075.
learnt so much about welding..
i need some mods to a trailer i have.. any takers 
you guys really love welding and brakes..
So uuuhm, how come noone’s talking about the high-pivot 180mm Lapierre Spicy someone posted 2 pages ago?
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