With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one of the bigger benefits of using titanium and carbon or aluminum and aluminum such as Atherton are doing. With proper isolation of the aluminum with anodizing or plating then an even glue line with bond spacers a joint shouldn't fail within a year. Those epoxies are strong as hell. Maybe they need to revisit the length of lap the are using.
More info on the Atherton A-170 here:
https://www.athertonbikes.com/aluminium-atherton
7075! Which is quite good, apparently
Oh and Gee on one that has Trickstuff brakes on it:...
Oh and Gee on one that has Trickstuff brakes on it:
Good to see they're sticking with double lapped lugs on the new frame.
I'm glad the mentioned forging, I was wondering if you could cast the parts and then machine the surfaces after, but I guess getting quality high resolution casts is such a niche thing anyway it was probably just as expensive for lower quality
best angle I’ve seen of it. Watching it live the case didn’t seem that bad, however from this angle, maybe not every bike would have snapped, but it was a pretty big impact.
If you watch this closely, his front wheels squirms in a real weird way right before he pulls. Maybe a rut or mud, but kinda looks maybe it was going before that case.
Not sure if this is the right place to share but here's a couple thoughts/rumors on random bike stuff after attending the Sedona bike fest
1...
Not sure if this is the right place to share but here's a couple thoughts/rumors on random bike stuff after attending the Sedona bike fest
1. All the guys that brought their DJ and bmx bikes lost to a guy that was on a demo yeti sb135 for the bunny hop contest. It's the rider, not the bike.
2. Always wondered what gearbox bikes felt when you tried to shift underload - it doesn't shift! I was climbing a not very steep road to get back to the venue on a (demo)Zerode and was stuck in gear 4 all the way up. The grip shift just would not budge until I completely stopped pedaling. I think there's still some improvement to be had there. The guys at the booth said the back wheel should track better due to being lighter, I personally could not tell. I did miss the ability to shift under power though.
3. The TRP DHR evo brakes felt wildly different from the Hayes Dominion A4s. I have the Hayes, and they have a super defined bite point. The TRP levers are also light action, but the braking feel is much more linear than the Hayes. Also, the Hayes felt like they had much more stopping power. Just my thoughts, as I see these being compared to each other a lot all around.
4. Heard that EXT is releasing a DC fork within this year.
5. There were SO many people demoing Yetis. Not sure because of the appeal or maybe just because they have the largest demo fleet. Norco only had 1 size of each bike.
6. Tried pulling the maven levers (on someone's bike, with consent), they are pretty stiff. Friend who has Codes are actually pretty excited for them, me not so much. My hunch is that if you liked Codes and you need more power, you'll like Mavens. If you didn't like Codes to start with, Mavens probably won't change that.
7.Saw some kids with older hardtails having great fun on Hiline. Anytime on a bike is better than being on a couch.
Regarding gearboxes, with the Pionion it's known you have to let up on the pedals to release the shift mechanism. On their end of line check...
Regarding gearboxes, with the Pionion it's known you have to let up on the pedals to release the shift mechanism. On their end of line check in the factory apparently they shift under full power, but drive the shifting mechanism with a big motor. So the design/parts take it, you're just not strong enough with the gripshift to shift it.
I think the electronic shifting mechanism improves in this.
With effigear talking with the designers they used direct drive hubs in order to drive the gearbox forwards with the wheel during shifts in one of the directions to release the pawls. Using a freehub rear hub would otherwise require backpedaling to release the shifting mechanism and enable the shift to be made.
Actually got to ride a Kavenz with an Effigear yesterday. Having to stop pedalling to achieve a shift to a lighter gear is weird. I guess you'd get used to it but the parking lot test just makes you think the gearbox doesn't work as it keeps the same gear until you let up on the pedals. The guy even had the the chainring on the freehub ziptied to the spokes so the wheel drives the chain to make shifting easier. Without it he would have to backpedal to change to a lighter gear.
Perhaps Pivot would benefit from the double lap shear design that Atherton uses.
Think this is the same frame he’s been on for a year now...
Perhaps Pivot would benefit from the double lap shear design that Atherton uses.
Think this is the same frame he’s been on for a year now? That’s a lot of laps.
BTW I’m a Pivot fan and a big fan of bonded frames.
Wonder if the curved downtube is needed for assembly? Seems like it would be harder to pull apart if the tubes were angled apart.
I love being an internet engineer 😜
The double lap joint is there to ensure a correct application of the adhesive. If you apply it into the groove and push in the tube, the tube will likely be wetted (and this glued) all around the circumference both inside and outside the tube. With a single tube in a single tube it's possible to just scrape off the glue by pushing the tubes together.
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the iscg-05 tabs, but I honestly would want one on my bike despite having a bit more drag when pedaling. It seems to do exactly what an Ochain is trying to accomplish but for much less money. If only there was someone out there who could desgin one for different bikes.
So...I can't search 20+ pages of data. The one post where you guys posted the review of the Maven's where the guy basically concluded they were awful & he couldn't get a gorilla to actuate the lever.....was he the only one?
With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one...
With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one of the bigger benefits of using titanium and carbon or aluminum and aluminum such as Atherton are doing. With proper isolation of the aluminum with anodizing or plating then an even glue line with bond spacers a joint shouldn't fail within a year. Those epoxies are strong as hell. Maybe they need to revisit the length of lap the are using.
I doubt it’s galvanic corrosion, I would bet money on it that the aluminum oxidized and wasn’t treated before they applied the adhesive to the substrate. There could be saponification happening, but usually that only happens with some amine compounds when interacting with a substrate containing zinc, so I highly doubt that’s the case.
A common misconception is that aluminum doesn’t oxidized, but it actually oxidizes (depending on the alloy) within minutes when exposed to oxygen. Anyone familiar with bonding aluminum should be well aware of this. We glue exotic road cars and race cars together all day with no problems. Devils in the details.
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the...
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the iscg-05 tabs, but I honestly would want one on my bike despite having a bit more drag when pedaling. It seems to do exactly what an Ochain is trying to accomplish but for much less money. If only there was someone out there who could desgin one for different bikes.
Dudes beat me to it. I had this idea around 3 years ago when a teammate was complaining about the rear end of his Process X feeling stiffer under pedal load. Was trying to rig something up but he ended up breaking the bike, probably for the better...
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the...
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the iscg-05 tabs, but I honestly would want one on my bike despite having a bit more drag when pedaling. It seems to do exactly what an Ochain is trying to accomplish but for much less money. If only there was someone out there who could desgin one for different bikes.
They do have slightly different effects, i.e. the idler reduces/cancels anti-squat permanently, while the o-chain is a chain growth buffer that doesn't interfere when you're pedalling.
A universal kit might be something like a rail to adjust the idler position, maybe also some angle adjustment on the ISCG mount, and would need to be built strong enough to handle the loads. The Rulezman kit is pretty beefy as it is without any adjustment.
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the...
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the iscg-05 tabs, but I honestly would want one on my bike despite having a bit more drag when pedaling. It seems to do exactly what an Ochain is trying to accomplish but for much less money. If only there was someone out there who could desgin one for different bikes.
They do have slightly different effects, i.e. the idler reduces/cancels anti-squat permanently, while the o-chain is a chain growth buffer that doesn't interfere when you're pedalling...
They do have slightly different effects, i.e. the idler reduces/cancels anti-squat permanently, while the o-chain is a chain growth buffer that doesn't interfere when you're pedalling.
A universal kit might be something like a rail to adjust the idler position, maybe also some angle adjustment on the ISCG mount, and would need to be built strong enough to handle the loads. The Rulezman kit is pretty beefy as it is without any adjustment.
The Rulezman idler will change the anti-squat character of your bike. So depending on what bike it could make it pedal better or worse. If you are just riding DH, not that big of a deal.
oChain will reduce the pedal kick and vibration to your feet. But you will have slack when first starting to pedal. It will also keep your bike at the designed Anti Squat character.
you can see in the graphs that he designed it for more pedal efficiency and less pedal kick on the Banshee. But this won’t be the case on all frames
With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one...
With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one of the bigger benefits of using titanium and carbon or aluminum and aluminum such as Atherton are doing. With proper isolation of the aluminum with anodizing or plating then an even glue line with bond spacers a joint shouldn't fail within a year. Those epoxies are strong as hell. Maybe they need to revisit the length of lap the are using.
I doubt it’s galvanic corrosion, I would bet money on it that the aluminum oxidized and wasn’t treated before they applied the adhesive to the substrate...
I doubt it’s galvanic corrosion, I would bet money on it that the aluminum oxidized and wasn’t treated before they applied the adhesive to the substrate. There could be saponification happening, but usually that only happens with some amine compounds when interacting with a substrate containing zinc, so I highly doubt that’s the case.
A common misconception is that aluminum doesn’t oxidized, but it actually oxidizes (depending on the alloy) within minutes when exposed to oxygen. Anyone familiar with bonding aluminum should be well aware of this. We glue exotic road cars and race cars together all day with no problems. Devils in the details.
An oxide layer on aluminium forms in the range of picoseconds under barely any (oxygen) atmosphere if I remember the graph seen at work quite a few years ago correctly.
The Rulezman idler will change the anti-squat character of your bike. So depending on what bike it could make it pedal better or worse. If you...
The Rulezman idler will change the anti-squat character of your bike. So depending on what bike it could make it pedal better or worse. If you are just riding DH, not that big of a deal.
oChain will reduce the pedal kick and vibration to your feet. But you will have slack when first starting to pedal. It will also keep your bike at the designed Anti Squat character.
you can see in the graphs that he designed it for more pedal efficiency and less pedal kick on the Banshee. But this won’t be the case on all frames
how is less anti squat better for pedaling? by looking at the graph i don't see how the bike with the backplate would pedal better than stock
Too much antisquat might prevent squatting when pedalling, but will in turn cause the bike to rise when pushing on the pedals. The end effect is the same. Pedal bob.
so remi is also on that black 38, same as richies was seen. seems like a new chassis incoming maybe? last time fox did that it was when the 38 was coming.
so remi is also on that black 38, same as richies was seen. seems like a new chassis incoming maybe? last time fox did that it...
so remi is also on that black 38, same as richies was seen. seems like a new chassis incoming maybe? last time fox did that it was when the 38 was coming.
I stared at one the other day at Crankworks on a sb160 from the yeti team
honestly I was pretty close and I couldn’t tell the difference in the look from a current gen 38
the only thing is that the sticker on the right leg close to the rebound now says grip 2
it was saying “grip” but clearly was a 4 way adjustment deal like the grip 2
It might not need to be, but you're giving up more than two thirds of its yield strength if you don't use a tempered grade such...
It might not need to be, but you're giving up more than two thirds of its yield strength if you don't use a tempered grade such as T6.
Sorry, I should have spelled out this thought in it's entirety.
I meant, you can buy heat-treated AL 7075 tubes and bond them together instead of having the frame have to undergo the process as a whole, after welding.
I stared at one the other day at Crankworks on a sb160 from the yeti team
honestly I was pretty close and I couldn’t tell the...
I stared at one the other day at Crankworks on a sb160 from the yeti team
honestly I was pretty close and I couldn’t tell the difference in the look from a current gen 38
the only thing is that the sticker on the right leg close to the rebound now says grip 2
it was saying “grip” but clearly was a 4 way adjustment deal like the grip 2
so don’t know what’s going on
couldn‘t make out any difference on all the pics i have seen. embargo might be the new dampers, but maybe there‘s also a new airspring which needs a new chassis, but just looks same as the current one.
Sorry, I should have spelled out this thought in it's entirety.
I meant, you can buy heat-treated AL 7075 tubes and bond them together instead of...
Sorry, I should have spelled out this thought in it's entirety.
I meant, you can buy heat-treated AL 7075 tubes and bond them together instead of having the frame have to undergo the process as a whole, after welding.
The fact you don't need to heat treat bonded frames after welding is also a major energy saving. Besides the alignment issues.
I think I shared the Lotus Elise documentary a few times already. It was the first (?) bonded aluminium car on the road with the chassis made in the same factory as the Renault Sport Spider. The latter was welded though and apparently the feel of each production line was stark - stuffy, loud, smelly for the Renault and quiet and clean for the Lotus production line. Heavy industry vs. laboratory feel.
Yup, Fight Attendant on a DH bike. Only going to be on the top handful of RS riders rides... for now. "Supposedly" will never be for sale to the public. I want to say that's BS, but then again, the short cage AXS DH derailleur has never been an option.
When it comes to gearboxes, you can totally climb and shift. It's one of the slight technique adjustments required. Takes only a few minutes to practice, but maybe a few rides to commit to muscle memory. The bigger issue I found was shifting while standing in anticipation of the next section of trail. Twisting the shifter while standing during a fast downhill is a real poo-inducing experience. The Cinq triggers fixed that but introduced a whole other set of problems. I do wonder how quickly Smart Shift changes gears though, cause the gripshift is fantastic for extremely quick shifts. Gearboxes aren't for everyone and every application, but they can be pretty fantastic in the right applications. I can't see them every being popular in say XC racing, but they've got a much wider application than people think.
With how all the epoxy has stuck to the carbon tube, I would have to assume the epoxy failed due to galvanic corrosion which is one of the bigger benefits of using titanium and carbon or aluminum and aluminum such as Atherton are doing. With proper isolation of the aluminum with anodizing or plating then an even glue line with bond spacers a joint shouldn't fail within a year. Those epoxies are strong as hell. Maybe they need to revisit the length of lap the are using.
Good to see they're sticking with double lapped lugs on the new frame.
I'm glad the mentioned forging, I was wondering if you could cast the parts and then machine the surfaces after, but I guess getting quality high resolution casts is such a niche thing anyway it was probably just as expensive for lower quality
Loam Wolf video of Pivot proto manufacturing.
rocky undercover at the windrock enduro
If you watch this closely, his front wheels squirms in a real weird way right before he pulls. Maybe a rut or mud, but kinda looks maybe it was going before that case.
Socky Mountain
New pullout king on the scene
Do we have a date
Actually got to ride a Kavenz with an Effigear yesterday. Having to stop pedalling to achieve a shift to a lighter gear is weird. I guess you'd get used to it but the parking lot test just makes you think the gearbox doesn't work as it keeps the same gear until you let up on the pedals. The guy even had the the chainring on the freehub ziptied to the spokes so the wheel drives the chain to make shifting easier. Without it he would have to backpedal to change to a lighter gear.
The double lap joint is there to ensure a correct application of the adhesive. If you apply it into the groove and push in the tube, the tube will likely be wetted (and this glued) all around the circumference both inside and outside the tube. With a single tube in a single tube it's possible to just scrape off the glue by pushing the tubes together.
What do you guys think of Rulezman's zero pedal kickback idler pulley design? It only works with Banshee V3 frames and is mounted to the iscg-05 tabs, but I honestly would want one on my bike despite having a bit more drag when pedaling. It seems to do exactly what an Ochain is trying to accomplish but for much less money. If only there was someone out there who could desgin one for different bikes.
So...I can't search 20+ pages of data. The one post where you guys posted the review of the Maven's where the guy basically concluded they were awful & he couldn't get a gorilla to actuate the lever.....was he the only one?
I doubt it’s galvanic corrosion, I would bet money on it that the aluminum oxidized and wasn’t treated before they applied the adhesive to the substrate. There could be saponification happening, but usually that only happens with some amine compounds when interacting with a substrate containing zinc, so I highly doubt that’s the case.
A common misconception is that aluminum doesn’t oxidized, but it actually oxidizes (depending on the alloy) within minutes when exposed to oxygen. Anyone familiar with bonding aluminum should be well aware of this. We glue exotic road cars and race cars together all day with no problems. Devils in the details.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4nWS3yMdNv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
The pressure.police wins the internet today
RIP John Clarke
I am glad Pivot has decided cardboard is indeed not the material they want to make bikes with.
Dudes beat me to it. I had this idea around 3 years ago when a teammate was complaining about the rear end of his Process X feeling stiffer under pedal load. Was trying to rig something up but he ended up breaking the bike, probably for the better...
They do have slightly different effects, i.e. the idler reduces/cancels anti-squat permanently, while the o-chain is a chain growth buffer that doesn't interfere when you're pedalling.
A universal kit might be something like a rail to adjust the idler position, maybe also some angle adjustment on the ISCG mount, and would need to be built strong enough to handle the loads. The Rulezman kit is pretty beefy as it is without any adjustment.
The Rulezman idler will change the anti-squat character of your bike. So depending on what bike it could make it pedal better or worse. If you are just riding DH, not that big of a deal.
oChain will reduce the pedal kick and vibration to your feet. But you will have slack when first starting to pedal. It will also keep your bike at the designed Anti Squat character.
you can see in the graphs that he designed it for more pedal efficiency and less pedal kick on the Banshee. But this won’t be the case on all frames
An oxide layer on aluminium forms in the range of picoseconds under barely any (oxygen) atmosphere if I remember the graph seen at work quite a few years ago correctly.
how is less anti squat better for pedaling? by looking at the graph i don't see how the bike with the backplate would pedal better than stock
Too much antisquat might prevent squatting when pedalling, but will in turn cause the bike to rise when pushing on the pedals. The end effect is the same. Pedal bob.
so remi is also on that black 38, same as richies was seen. seems like a new chassis incoming maybe? last time fox did that it was when the 38 was coming.
There’s a Fox embargo until April and/or May.
Gone are the days when embargos are a defined date
I stared at one the other day at Crankworks on a sb160 from the yeti team
honestly I was pretty close and I couldn’t tell the difference in the look from a current gen 38
the only thing is that the sticker on the right leg close to the rebound now says grip 2
it was saying “grip” but clearly was a 4 way adjustment deal like the grip 2
so don’t know what’s going on
Sorry, I should have spelled out this thought in it's entirety.
I meant, you can buy heat-treated AL 7075 tubes and bond them together instead of having the frame have to undergo the process as a whole, after welding.
couldn‘t make out any difference on all the pics i have seen. embargo might be the new dampers, but maybe there‘s also a new airspring which needs a new chassis, but just looks same as the current one.
The fact you don't need to heat treat bonded frames after welding is also a major energy saving. Besides the alignment issues.
I think I shared the Lotus Elise documentary a few times already. It was the first (?) bonded aluminium car on the road with the chassis made in the same factory as the Renault Sport Spider. The latter was welded though and apparently the feel of each production line was stark - stuffy, loud, smelly for the Renault and quiet and clean for the Lotus production line. Heavy industry vs. laboratory feel.
Yup, Fight Attendant on a DH bike. Only going to be on the top handful of RS riders rides... for now. "Supposedly" will never be for sale to the public. I want to say that's BS, but then again, the short cage AXS DH derailleur has never been an option.
When it comes to gearboxes, you can totally climb and shift. It's one of the slight technique adjustments required. Takes only a few minutes to practice, but maybe a few rides to commit to muscle memory. The bigger issue I found was shifting while standing in anticipation of the next section of trail. Twisting the shifter while standing during a fast downhill is a real poo-inducing experience. The Cinq triggers fixed that but introduced a whole other set of problems. I do wonder how quickly Smart Shift changes gears though, cause the gripshift is fantastic for extremely quick shifts. Gearboxes aren't for everyone and every application, but they can be pretty fantastic in the right applications. I can't see them every being popular in say XC racing, but they've got a much wider application than people think.
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