MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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bigbrett
Posts
15
Joined
9/5/2017
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
2/26/2024 6:55am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2024 6:58am

Long shot, but anyone hear whether the new 2024 spesh “epic evo” will move to S sizing, specifically whether it will be offered in S6?

matmattmatthew
Posts
301
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
2/26/2024 7:25am
bigbrett wrote:

Long shot, but anyone hear whether the new 2024 spesh “epic evo” will move to S sizing, specifically whether it will be offered in S6?

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

1
TayRob
Posts
119
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
CA US
2/26/2024 8:46am
bigbrett wrote:

Long shot, but anyone hear whether the new 2024 spesh “epic evo” will move to S sizing, specifically whether it will be offered in S6?

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing. ...

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

I haven’t heard anything about “S” sizing either, but can also confirm Swat on both models. No more brain and 120/120mm on the standard Epic, 130/120mm on the Evo.

4
matmattmatthew
Posts
301
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
2/26/2024 8:56am
TayRob wrote:
I haven’t heard anything about “S” sizing either, but can also confirm Swat on both models. No more brain and 120/120mm on the standard Epic, 130/120mm...

I haven’t heard anything about “S” sizing either, but can also confirm Swat on both models. No more brain and 120/120mm on the standard Epic, 130/120mm on the Evo.

I’ve heard the same.  I think they are dropping “Evo” from both the Epic and Stumpjumper lines.  The Stumpjumper Evo will just be the Stumpjumper and fill the 140-160 category.  The Epic Evo will become the Epic 130 and will sort of blend the old Epic Evo and “regular” stumpjumper into one bike. 

2
pheller
Posts
44
Joined
5/18/2016
Location
US
2/26/2024 9:17am
90% of them use identical internals so if someone wanted to make something new here that would be great!    Otherwise the biggest difference is the...

90% of them use identical internals so if someone wanted to make something new here that would be great! 

 

Otherwise the biggest difference is the type of fitting/chuck/hose that they each use

I work with a digital shock pump on a daily basis, and I am very frequently frustrated by the lack of an Abbey-level equivalent to the...

I work with a digital shock pump on a daily basis, and I am very frequently frustrated by the lack of an Abbey-level equivalent to the garbage that seems to come from the same factory, with different suspension manufacturer’s names poorly printed on the head. At the same time, I am constantly reminded of the question Spomer asked Jordi on his episode of The Inside Line: “Have you ever attached a FitBit to your shock pump?”. It seems ludicrous to me (and to Jordi also, it appears) that I should have to inflate a CAD$1300 fork with a $60 steam-punk style tool that wastes my time and energy, when the tool I smash with a hammer to remove a foot nut costs the same amount. Someone please make a higher quality alternative, because I will buy it and so will others. Rant over; thanks for listening; back to tech rumors.

Primoz wrote:

Sometimes I yearn for the Specialized floor shock pump... Would make inflating shocks from zero much easier. 

I recently got one. 

I'm a bigger dude who always goes to max on shock pressure and its sooooo nice. 

The "No Release" chuck head takes some getting used to. Lots of air in the line, so even if you disengage the pump side from the shock side, when you wind the head off the shock it feels like it's losing a ton of air. It's all in the line. 

I should've bought one years ago, honestly. 

2
monarchmason
Posts
172
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/26/2024 9:17am
Seagrave7 wrote:
New 2024 Specialized Epic?   https://www.instagram.com/p/C3vaf5joDTT/?igsh=ZWI2YzEzYmMxYg==

Its actually so cool to see XC evolving to be more aggressive in all fronts of riding. Not just climbing and efficiency. Hell, make tracks a little more crazy and itll be like watching massive 4X races. Id watch that live. 

20
bigbrett
Posts
15
Joined
9/5/2017
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
2/26/2024 9:46am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2024 9:51am
Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing. ...

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo. 
 

Found the spec sheet after some sleuthing (ok not that much required). Sadly it looks like us Clydesdales will be SOL on the epics, though the geo chart in the spec sheet does seem to have some glaring errors (sizes are wrong) so who knows….

jonkranked
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831
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5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
2/26/2024 10:03am

other site just posted a wrapped up proto HP canyon sender. looks like the chain/seat stay has a pivot concentric to the axle.  also, idler + ochain. 

5
matmattmatthew
Posts
301
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
2/26/2024 10:06am
Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing. ...

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

bigbrett wrote:
Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo.    Found the spec...

Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo. 
 

Found the spec sheet after some sleuthing (ok not that much required). Sadly it looks like us Clydesdales will be SOL on the epics, though the geo chart in the spec sheet does seem to have some glaring errors (sizes are wrong) so who knows….

Since the new epic evo/130 or whatever they call it will (likely) also be replacing the regular stumpjumper, I could see them having S sizing on that model.  However, if it shares the same frame as the standard 120/120 Epic then I’d imagine the sizing would also carry over too.  I’d prefer different sizing as well, I was in between L and XL when I bought my Epic Evo.  I wanted the reach of the XL but didn’t want the seat tube length.  I ended up getting a L which allowed me to run a 170mm dropper.  I know it’s not apples/apples but I also have an S4 enduro and the reach on that is like 30mm longer than the Epic.  
 

I’m hoping the new Epic Evo is a completely dedicated frame with different geometry from the regular 2024 Epic.  If so, that will likely be my next frame. 

All-MTN-MTB
Posts
128
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Boulder, CO US
2/26/2024 10:18am
Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing. ...

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

bigbrett wrote:
Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo.    Found the spec...

Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo. 
 

Found the spec sheet after some sleuthing (ok not that much required). Sadly it looks like us Clydesdales will be SOL on the epics, though the geo chart in the spec sheet does seem to have some glaring errors (sizes are wrong) so who knows….

Big and tall folks should also pay attention to listed rider weight limits on Specialized XC bikes as some models in the past have had relatively low max weights for someone of your height. It would probably be fine either way, but you'd basically get no warranty coverage

 

3
2/26/2024 10:24am
Ya, i know there is an initial stage to flip the direction, but that should have pretty low losses.  My dream is two road cassettes right...

Ya, i know there is an initial stage to flip the direction, but that should have pretty low losses. 

My dream is two road cassettes right next to each other with one flipped, and a single chain connecting them. Somehow, some way, a selector like a derailleur slides the chain up and down both cassettes at the same time. As each cog moves up or down in size, the other cassette moves the opposite, so there is very limited chain slack negating the need for derailleur pulleys. Two 250% road cassettes would then give us the mountain bike range needed in a compact space with minimal drag and freedom for pivot placement. 

EDIT: like this, but two road cassettes and a chain since sliding belts on CVTs have poor efficiency 

Pin on nice

slimshady wrote:
Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from...

Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from B1. And you can be damn sure they'll keep it sealed until they have milked the rear derailleur for many more years.

So the OLD patent from the Honda days was for a literal internal derailleur and traditional cassette. The cassette can be moved horizontally to help with chainline and shifting. This dual, opposing cassettes idea is different enough that I doubt there would be any over lap....


UNFORTUNATELY, just last year Shimano applied for another patent that exactly matches my idea. 

https://www.bike198.com/shimano-gearbox-patent/

 

TayRob
Posts
119
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
CA US
2/26/2024 10:24am
Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing. ...

Not sure on the EVO, but I've seen the dealer sheet for the "regular" 2024 Epic and they are keeping with S, M, L, XL sizing.  The regular Epic is getting SWAT storage, so I'm pretty confident that the Evo will get SWAT as well.  Which, in my opinion, will make an already amazing bike, even better.  

bigbrett wrote:
Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo.    Found the spec...

Bummer, as a big boy (6’6”/198cm) I was really hoping they would do the same frame sizes as the current SJ evo. 
 

Found the spec sheet after some sleuthing (ok not that much required). Sadly it looks like us Clydesdales will be SOL on the epics, though the geo chart in the spec sheet does seem to have some glaring errors (sizes are wrong) so who knows….

Since the new epic evo/130 or whatever they call it will (likely) also be replacing the regular stumpjumper, I could see them having S sizing on...

Since the new epic evo/130 or whatever they call it will (likely) also be replacing the regular stumpjumper, I could see them having S sizing on that model.  However, if it shares the same frame as the standard 120/120 Epic then I’d imagine the sizing would also carry over too.  I’d prefer different sizing as well, I was in between L and XL when I bought my Epic Evo.  I wanted the reach of the XL but didn’t want the seat tube length.  I ended up getting a L which allowed me to run a 170mm dropper.  I know it’s not apples/apples but I also have an S4 enduro and the reach on that is like 30mm longer than the Epic.  
 

I’m hoping the new Epic Evo is a completely dedicated frame with different geometry from the regular 2024 Epic.  If so, that will likely be my next frame. 

The new Epic and Epic Evo will share frames. The only difference will be 10mm more fork travel on the Evo. Sorry to burst your bubble.

4
smol lizard
Posts
4
Joined
1/8/2024
Location
Hurricane, UT US
2/26/2024 10:38am

Epic pic looks to be xc flight attendant as well. Not sure if there have been shots of that previously on here.

monarchmason
Posts
172
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
2/26/2024 10:49am
jonkranked wrote:
other site just posted a wrapped up proto HP canyon sender. looks like the chain/seat stay has a pivot concentric to the axle.  also, idler +...

other site just posted a wrapped up proto HP canyon sender. looks like the chain/seat stay has a pivot concentric to the axle.  also, idler + ochain. 

It looks like there is a pivot below the chainring. This going to have suspension like the new Demo? 

bigbrett
Posts
15
Joined
9/5/2017
Location
Salt Lake City, UT US
2/26/2024 11:04am
Big and tall folks should also pay attention to listed rider weight limits on Specialized XC bikes as some models in the past have had relatively...

Big and tall folks should also pay attention to listed rider weight limits on Specialized XC bikes as some models in the past have had relatively low max weights for someone of your height. It would probably be fine either way, but you'd basically get no warranty coverage

 

That’s only mildly terrifying…hopefully an “evo” type thing, aka downcountry, wouldn’t have one, as imho the whole point of those bikes is to get yourself into stupid stuff you have no business doing on an XC bike. 

1
airwreck
Posts
76
Joined
4/7/2015
Location
HI US
2/26/2024 11:08am
Ya, i know there is an initial stage to flip the direction, but that should have pretty low losses.  My dream is two road cassettes right...

Ya, i know there is an initial stage to flip the direction, but that should have pretty low losses. 

My dream is two road cassettes right next to each other with one flipped, and a single chain connecting them. Somehow, some way, a selector like a derailleur slides the chain up and down both cassettes at the same time. As each cog moves up or down in size, the other cassette moves the opposite, so there is very limited chain slack negating the need for derailleur pulleys. Two 250% road cassettes would then give us the mountain bike range needed in a compact space with minimal drag and freedom for pivot placement. 

EDIT: like this, but two road cassettes and a chain since sliding belts on CVTs have poor efficiency 

Pin on nice

slimshady wrote:
Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from...

Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from B1. And you can be damn sure they'll keep it sealed until they have milked the rear derailleur for many more years.

So the OLD patent from the Honda days was for a literal internal derailleur and traditional cassette. The cassette can be moved horizontally to help with...

So the OLD patent from the Honda days was for a literal internal derailleur and traditional cassette. The cassette can be moved horizontally to help with chainline and shifting. This dual, opposing cassettes idea is different enough that I doubt there would be any over lap....


UNFORTUNATELY, just last year Shimano applied for another patent that exactly matches my idea. 

https://www.bike198.com/shimano-gearbox-patent/

 

Patent  discussions make me wonder what happened to Wheelbased. Looks like he went quiet about a year ago.

14
2/26/2024 11:16am

Looking like this is the lineup for '24 Specialized 
Epic World Cup: Released last year 
Epic: Dropping very soon (120 rear, builds with 120 and 130mm forks for XC or Downcountry/Trail) w/SWAT and S sizing 
Stumpjumper: un-released but basically same frame (but without motor) as the recently release Tubro Levo SL 
Enduro: Re-designed last minute to incorporate the design of the Demo prototype. Late summer/fall release for MY25? 
Demo: Un-changed until production available, full carbon, late '24 or early '25. 

 

8
brash
Posts
745
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
2/26/2024 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2024 12:20pm
brash wrote:
more likely the sight, historically the range VLT comes with Coil shock only. But that does look like a BIG travel Zeb upfront, who knows. I'm...

more likely the sight, historically the range VLT comes with Coil shock only. But that does look like a BIG travel Zeb upfront, who knows.

I'm curious if they do the same front and rear triangle thing across all 3 models (fluid/sight/range) and just change the rocker/yoke between the models like the old one. That was a clever way to minimize cost. But at the same time, could you imagine riding a size small with a 462mm rear chainstay?

lando wrote:

The Fluid is already on the Norco website and is entirely its own bike.

talking this one, not the lightweight

https://www.norco.com/bikes/e-mountain/e-trail/fluid-vlt/2023-fluid-a1-…

Not sure if they keep the full powered fluid for 24

OldManCook
Posts
27
Joined
2/13/2024
Location
Christchurch NZ
2/26/2024 12:31pm
Looking like this is the lineup for '24 Specialized  Epic World Cup: Released last year  Epic: Dropping very soon (120 rear, builds with 120 and 130mm...

Looking like this is the lineup for '24 Specialized 
Epic World Cup: Released last year 
Epic: Dropping very soon (120 rear, builds with 120 and 130mm forks for XC or Downcountry/Trail) w/SWAT and S sizing 
Stumpjumper: un-released but basically same frame (but without motor) as the recently release Tubro Levo SL 
Enduro: Re-designed last minute to incorporate the design of the Demo prototype. Late summer/fall release for MY25? 
Demo: Un-changed until production available, full carbon, late '24 or early '25. 

 

No news on the Turbo Levo replacement at all?

1
lando
Posts
54
Joined
4/6/2017
Location
Missoula, MT US
2/26/2024 1:30pm
brash wrote:
more likely the sight, historically the range VLT comes with Coil shock only. But that does look like a BIG travel Zeb upfront, who knows. I'm...

more likely the sight, historically the range VLT comes with Coil shock only. But that does look like a BIG travel Zeb upfront, who knows.

I'm curious if they do the same front and rear triangle thing across all 3 models (fluid/sight/range) and just change the rocker/yoke between the models like the old one. That was a clever way to minimize cost. But at the same time, could you imagine riding a size small with a 462mm rear chainstay?

lando wrote:

The Fluid is already on the Norco website and is entirely its own bike.

brash wrote:

talking this one, not the lightweight

https://www.norco.com/bikes/e-mountain/e-trail/fluid-vlt/2023-fluid-a1-…

Not sure if they keep the full powered fluid for 24

They aren't going to keep the heavy Fluid with the big motor.

2
2/26/2024 2:06pm

Did I miss it? Has someone already posted about the HP Canyon prototype? Looks to be a split pivot, which only makes sense (to me) to get around I-Tracks patent. Why would they have to worry about that for a  prototype? 

photo

3
jonkranked
Posts
831
Joined
5/5/2016
Location
Norristown, PA US
2/26/2024 2:48pm
lloyd506 wrote:

Stop forcing bikes to wear diapers. 

Lizard Skins is expanding its product offering 

10
2/26/2024 3:05pm
Primoz wrote:

I think Chris Canfield has a patent pending and some prototypes out in the wild doing exactly this. With three positions actually. 

MTBrent wrote:
"CF3" with the main pivot able to rotate around the rear axle/pivot so geo doesn't change when the main pivot changes.  He talked about it on...

"CF3" with the main pivot able to rotate around the rear axle/pivot so geo doesn't change when the main pivot changes.  He talked about it on Bike Rumor's podcast I think.

https://suspension-formulas.com/

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210380195A1/en?assignee=Suspension+Formulas%2c+LLC

If anyone remembers me mentioning a new canfield prototype I saw at a jump park in Salt Lake a little while back.. it looked a LOT like that design. 

4
dmcd38
Posts
27
Joined
9/6/2017
Location
Lisbon PT
2/26/2024 3:49pm

Does anyone know when the new Canyon Torque is coming?

1
1
samdaman1
Posts
48
Joined
12/18/2016
Location
GB
2/26/2024 4:59pm
Did I miss it? Has someone already posted about the HP Canyon prototype? Looks to be a split pivot, which only makes sense (to me) to...

Did I miss it? Has someone already posted about the HP Canyon prototype? Looks to be a split pivot, which only makes sense (to me) to get around I-Tracks patent. Why would they have to worry about that for a  prototype? 

photo

Does anyone else think that those Saint calipers look a bit bigger than the normal ones? Also it looks like the direct mount Saint cranks are getting a lot closer to being available given how many bikes they've been showing up on recently. I'd be intrigued to see if they make anything shorter than 165mm following Laurie Greenland's not so secretive usage of Hope's 155m cranks with Saint stickers on them.

1
samdaman1
Posts
48
Joined
12/18/2016
Location
GB
2/26/2024 5:01pm
Primoz wrote:
Extra volume negative can by the looks of it... @Onawalk Forbidden is a HP company, the Slash is an enduro racing machine and Norco is adding...

Extra volume negative can by the looks of it...

@Onawalk Forbidden is a HP company, the Slash is an enduro racing machine and Norco is adding two models lower down. Not exactly overwhelming high pivotness across the board, there are more through headset routed bikes out there. Development cycles take a few years so the realistic picture will be known in a few years if high pivot really is the hotness above everything else or not. Wouldn't be the first hat I eat, but I stand by my comment that we won't see idlers en masse below enduro bikes. 

From a completely inquisitive POV.. would a company be able to design a 2 position rear triangle, one HP w/ idler pulley, and then have a...

From a completely inquisitive POV.. would a company be able to design a 2 position rear triangle, one HP w/ idler pulley, and then have a second hardware mounting position for a traditional, let's say 4 bar or VPP setup? 

I am sure an engineer could simply reply to this saying "that's not possible" and I would be happy with the answer but it's a question that's been bouncing in my noggin for a bit. 

I think the Geometron G2 prototype/mule has this as a feature? Either that or it's just the same front triangle and the rear end is changed between the high pivot and regular pivot setups. I can see it being possible though combined with their mutator adjustments

dolface
Posts
1298
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
2/26/2024 5:44pm
slimshady wrote:
Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from...

Shimano holds a patent for that, handed to them by Honda. It's what prevented Hayes from popularizing the PeteSpeed gearbox after they bought the design from B1. And you can be damn sure they'll keep it sealed until they have milked the rear derailleur for many more years.

So the OLD patent from the Honda days was for a literal internal derailleur and traditional cassette. The cassette can be moved horizontally to help with...

So the OLD patent from the Honda days was for a literal internal derailleur and traditional cassette. The cassette can be moved horizontally to help with chainline and shifting. This dual, opposing cassettes idea is different enough that I doubt there would be any over lap....


UNFORTUNATELY, just last year Shimano applied for another patent that exactly matches my idea. 

https://www.bike198.com/shimano-gearbox-patent/

 

airwreck wrote:

Patent  discussions make me wonder what happened to Wheelbased. Looks like he went quiet about a year ago.

Me too. I know he was getting hassled for posting stuff a while back and am guessing it made it not worth it to continue Sad

5
metadave
Posts
1041
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
CA
2/26/2024 6:20pm
Did I miss it? Has someone already posted about the HP Canyon prototype? Looks to be a split pivot, which only makes sense (to me) to...

Did I miss it? Has someone already posted about the HP Canyon prototype? Looks to be a split pivot, which only makes sense (to me) to get around I-Tracks patent. Why would they have to worry about that for a  prototype? 

photo

samdaman1 wrote:
Does anyone else think that those Saint calipers look a bit bigger than the normal ones? Also it looks like the direct mount Saint cranks are...

Does anyone else think that those Saint calipers look a bit bigger than the normal ones? Also it looks like the direct mount Saint cranks are getting a lot closer to being available given how many bikes they've been showing up on recently. I'd be intrigued to see if they make anything shorter than 165mm following Laurie Greenland's not so secretive usage of Hope's 155m cranks with Saint stickers on them.

Imagine Shimano releasing a new saint group that looks identical to the one that's been out for 10 years. I'd love that, it would be the best thing they've ever done. 

21

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