MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Dave_Camp
Posts
371
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
3/1/2023 7:37am
2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes...

2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes rebound, which is very suboptimal.

 

In short, they reinvented the wheel, when the 2022 is a better product when it comes to compression and rebound damping, all to implement HBO, which wasn't needed that desperately. 

Steve-  changing HSC does nothing to your rebound setting (on either SDLX air or coil).  I'll need to see your dyno graphs proving otherwise.

 

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sprungmass
Posts
133
Joined
3/1/2023
Location
Calgary, AB CA
3/1/2023 7:41am
 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

331720157 892082015396393 73591918638295602 n

 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

I wonder if there is a little link hiding under there or if they are connecting directly to the shock? I suspect a link for lateral...

I wonder if there is a little link hiding under there or if they are connecting directly to the shock? I suspect a link for lateral rigidity

SRAM still keeping that new crank a secret??? Besides the hole in it what am I missing? A power meter or something?

Masjo wrote:
or because it's .*~aero~*. Also likely that there is a chainring-based power meter option. The new SRAM Force AXS dropped today, and they are offering chainring-integrated...

or because it's .*~aero~*.

Also likely that there is a chainring-based power meter option. The new SRAM Force AXS dropped today, and they are offering chainring-integrated power meters AND crank-based power meters. Apparently chainring-based is more accurate and stiffer, but nice to see a crank option so your power meter doesn't die when your chainrings wear out. 

I really find it silly that they are possibly bringing that integrated power meter to MTB. Just hoping they will make a T-Type 104 BCD chainring for us Quarq spider users. I guess if they don't then companies like Wolftooth etc will. 

codahale
Posts
23
Joined
9/11/2018
Location
Fort Collins, CO US
3/1/2023 7:49am
$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a...

$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a few days with a tuner to get a revalve for my speed and weight, and have a better performing shock overall. 

Push shocks are valved for your weight and speed, plus they’ll re-valve it for you for shipping costs within 60 days if you’re not happy with the ride. I can’t fault anyone for not paying the $$$ for a Push, but if you’re going to spend the $$$ you might as well end up with a shock with a warranty.

4
1
sspomer
Posts
5053
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
3/1/2023 8:05am
$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a...

$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a few days with a tuner to get a revalve for my speed and weight, and have a better performing shock overall. 

codahale wrote:
Push shocks are valved for your weight and speed, plus they’ll re-valve it for you for shipping costs within 60 days if you’re not happy with...

Push shocks are valved for your weight and speed, plus they’ll re-valve it for you for shipping costs within 60 days if you’re not happy with the ride. I can’t fault anyone for not paying the $$$ for a Push, but if you’re going to spend the $$$ you might as well end up with a shock with a warranty.

agreed that price is heavy and not for everyone/most riders. fwiw, if shock is sent in for service each year, warranty is reset for another year, not to mention if you get a new bike, they'll configure the shock to the new bike. when we were w/ darren, he said that shock #47 from 2016 (or some long-ass time ago), came in for service, still going strong. different ways to perceive "cost" or value.

9
Noeserd
Posts
185
Joined
10/21/2020
Location
TR
3/1/2023 8:12am
$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a...

$1600 for a shock is crazy expensive. For that amount of money I would much rather buy a cheaper shock (like a RS) and spent a few days with a tuner to get a revalve for my speed and weight, and have a better performing shock overall. 

I would rather buy a cane creek instead of rs

1
1
dolface
Posts
1349
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
3/1/2023 8:28am
It's a point at the seatstay (or chainstay in the place of a Horst pivot in the Cannondale Scalpel) that flexes. There's a regular pivot above...

It's a point at the seatstay (or chainstay in the place of a Horst pivot in the Cannondale Scalpel) that flexes. There's a regular pivot above the BB.

spec pivot

 

4
1
3/1/2023 9:46am
 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

331720157 892082015396393 73591918638295602 n

 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

Looks good! Hopefully it will be 15k+$

4
Big Bird
Posts
2185
Joined
2/1/2011
Location
Oceano, CA US
3/1/2023 10:44am
I wonder if there is a little link hiding under there or if they are connecting directly to the shock? I suspect a link for lateral...

I wonder if there is a little link hiding under there or if they are connecting directly to the shock? I suspect a link for lateral rigidity

SRAM still keeping that new crank a secret??? Besides the hole in it what am I missing? A power meter or something?

In the picture there's a bolt in the top tube, behind the shock near the seat tube, suggesting that there is a short link to drive the shock.

3
lickmycrinkle
Posts
174
Joined
1/27/2021
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
3/1/2023 10:45am
sharpy212 wrote:
Any day now…..

F7331A1F-4CF2-4FB7-B013-E2D615B26CF4.png?VersionId=4fUvGuydX2kDwzNZ

Any day now…..

New (refreshed) Force AXS dropped today. I think the last time they had a load of stuff to release, it was pretty much weekly from the first one forward.

6
3/1/2023 11:13am
2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes...

2023 Super Deluxe, is ok, but not great. The HBO addition is nice, (but ultimately not that important) but unfortunately now changing high speed compression changes rebound, which is very suboptimal.

 

In short, they reinvented the wheel, when the 2022 is a better product when it comes to compression and rebound damping, all to implement HBO, which wasn't needed that desperately. 

Dave_Camp wrote:

Steve-  changing HSC does nothing to your rebound setting (on either SDLX air or coil).  I'll need to see your dyno graphs proving otherwise.

 

enginerds.jpg?VersionId=Zcqzbhs0EnjHTppJPUeFci GUE1BmiF

 

27
Dave_Camp
Posts
371
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
3/1/2023 11:21am

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

29
1
nskerb
Posts
263
Joined
3/3/2020
Location
Kelso, WA US
3/1/2023 11:57am

There are a lot of stupid people in the comments (me included) and mr. Camp is not one of them from my understanding. 

9
3/1/2023 12:49pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
10/10 Noah   I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that...

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

That doesn't change the fact the HSC adjustment is bullshit on them though.

12
3/1/2023 5:41pm
 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

331720157 892082015396393 73591918638295602 n

 New Specialized "Supercaliber" and new SRAM stuff.

Interesting headset with obviously integrated cable routing but would it be possible to have some reach adjustment?
BTW, I'm shocked it's not standard on more bikes to have some reach and angleset adjustment. I would minimize the number of molds required: manufacturers could probably tackle 6 sizes with 2 front triangles. I think GG is doing something similar. 

2
Onawalk
Posts
328
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
3/1/2023 7:32pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
10/10 Noah   I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that...

10/10 Noah

 

I did do some math and stared at a dyno for a long time.  It's frustrating to read stuff stated as fact that is not correct. 

That doesn't change the fact the HSC adjustment is bullshit on them though.

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

5
mamath7
Posts
96
Joined
6/17/2014
Location
FR
3/2/2023 4:24am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

from open

1
slimshady
Posts
130
Joined
9/16/2011
Location
AR
3/2/2023 4:29am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

mamath7 wrote:

from open

Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which it's stupid if you ask me, since fully closed means a completely inactive suspension, and ideally you'd like it to be as active as possible, without hindering control.

2
3/2/2023 4:34am
slimshady wrote:
Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which...

Yup, me too. That's how it was written in the manuals back in the day. However, most of the websites count from closed these days. Which it's stupid if you ask me, since fully closed means a completely inactive suspension, and ideally you'd like it to be as active as possible, without hindering control.

It is because the open reference is not fixed, but the closed reference is fixed. It is due to tolerances. Count from closed - always.

14
4
3/2/2023 4:54am
brash wrote:

is the 2023 Super Deluxe that good? When this DHX2 blows up again (inevitable) I'd consider one, stock in Aus is nil however. Rocking horse shit.

Have you tried Cyclinic? 

Dave_Camp
Posts
371
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
3/2/2023 5:43am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

18
slimshady
Posts
130
Joined
9/16/2011
Location
AR
3/2/2023 5:56am
Dave_Camp wrote:
Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people...

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

Now that makes an excellent explanation on why I should change from counting from open to counting from closed. Thanks for the enlightingment!

5
Onawalk
Posts
328
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
3/2/2023 6:05am
Onawalk wrote:
Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you? Like where are...

Out of curiosity, when on a RS fork or shock, when it says +3 clicks of HSC, what does that mean to you?

Like where are YOU starting from, and which way are you turning the dial?

Just curious

 

Dave_Camp wrote:
Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people...

Now that means +3 clicks from the middle- nominal- setting (on charger 3 and new shocks).  That was a massive discussion and re-thought of how people should set up their suspension.  We wanted people to use the knobs- making it the normal/default setting in the middle of the range was hoping to push people to actually use the damper. 

 

Otherwise it's count out from closed as that is almost always a hard-stop of a valve being completely closed (and you can compare that to your buddy's fork/shock of the same type).   Most of the time the open side has a few dead clicks that don't do anything measurable (tolerance eaters) so better to count from closed.  I guess read the manual for your specific shock/fork and it should say where to count from.

I was aware of the change, just wanted to see if those that complain, had actually read the manual.

I find most people are bewildered by suspension setup, and struggle to correctly twiddle their knobs to even get to the factory recommended settings.

Appreciate the info dave, youre out here doing good work

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