I only use brake cleaner for the disc as its more aggressive than isopropyl alcohol. But I always could save the disc. Only had to throw away the pads.
Hey guys, I'm having issues with my front brake lately but cannot understand why..So I'm riding for the past 15 years, and since 2 months it seems...
Hey guys,
I'm having issues with my front brake lately but cannot understand why..
So I'm riding for the past 15 years, and since 2 months it seems that my front pads are glazing. I've be using trickstuff power one since 4 years and it has never happened to me.
The only thing that has changed is the disk, it's a TRP RS05E with 2.3m thick. Before that I was using Hope floating disk. So, could they be the culprit here ?
The only other possibility is that the pads are contaminated but I've NEVER contamined any pads...
The first time it happened, I was guessing that maybe the pads were contaminated while the bike was on the bike rack (I could have drove on oil on the road). But two times in 2 months ?!
I'm not completly sure there are glazed, but they are shinny. Also as I noticed the lack of power on my ride yesterday, I've tried to remove the pads and "sand" them using rocks and loam... At first the brake was more powerfull but it fastly became weak. Putting some backup pads (Intend white magic) and after a few miles, the brake was performing as it should.
I've also check, the caliper does not seem to leak at the pistons.
Correct me if I'm wrong but glazing happen when the pads are to hot no ? So I cannot understand why the bigger disk (2.3 instead of 1.8 - even if they are floatting) would make them glaze ?
There is something happening here but I don't understand what !
Galfer makes some great cheap 2.0 rotors. Seems like you are getting heat build/contact from the 2.3
I was told by MTX if you have contamination to use acetone and its a bit more aggressive than isopropyl. I believe you can try that on the pads too and sand them down as well, but don't quote me on that.
From MTX, for rotors:
Wear gloves and begin the following process:
Remove your rotors - spray them clean with an automotive brake cleaner or isopropyl alcohol. Wipe the rotors dry before the brake cleaner dries.
Grab some 80 or 100 grit sandpaper and sand both sides in fairly straight lines, by hand, aggressively. We want to get the factory crosshatch pattern back into the surface essentially creating a new, rough surface for the brake pad to bed into and bite down on. *Rotors are made from hardened stainless steel - you will-not damage or remove any material of the rotor, what-so-ever when sanding by-hand. You’re literally just scratching the surface to create a new “bite point” for the rotor and pad surface.
Spray the rotors with the brake cleaner or alcohol again, and wipe them down before it dries.
Lightly sand the brake pads (if they are used) - it'll take less than a few seconds to get them to look like new again. This resets the pads (as long as they have not been exposed to any oils or contaminants).
I use isopropyl alcohol and 80 to 180 grit emery paper/cloth (just depends what I have on hand).
For the pads, soapy water in the sink (plug in). Rub the pads against each other. Followed by just water, rubbing the pads together. Might take some rubbing (sometimes not long), but you know when they are done as the pads start gripping each other.
Brake cleaner is a really strong solvent, for some things even stronger than acetone (cleaning an oil pan gasket sealer works really well while acetone hardly does anything). No worries about the strength of it.
Hey guys, I'm having issues with my front brake lately but cannot understand why..So I'm riding for the past 15 years, and since 2 months it seems...
Hey guys,
I'm having issues with my front brake lately but cannot understand why..
So I'm riding for the past 15 years, and since 2 months it seems that my front pads are glazing. I've be using trickstuff power one since 4 years and it has never happened to me.
The only thing that has changed is the disk, it's a TRP RS05E with 2.3m thick. Before that I was using Hope floating disk. So, could they be the culprit here ?
The only other possibility is that the pads are contaminated but I've NEVER contamined any pads...
The first time it happened, I was guessing that maybe the pads were contaminated while the bike was on the bike rack (I could have drove on oil on the road). But two times in 2 months ?!
I'm not completly sure there are glazed, but they are shinny. Also as I noticed the lack of power on my ride yesterday, I've tried to remove the pads and "sand" them using rocks and loam... At first the brake was more powerfull but it fastly became weak. Putting some backup pads (Intend white magic) and after a few miles, the brake was performing as it should.
I've also check, the caliper does not seem to leak at the pistons.
Correct me if I'm wrong but glazing happen when the pads are to hot no ? So I cannot understand why the bigger disk (2.3 instead of 1.8 - even if they are floatting) would make them glaze ?
There is something happening here but I don't understand what !
Agreed with the others about it sounding like contaminated pads. What make and model of brake are they, how old, and when and what was the last service on em?
IME 'cleaning' pads after a contamination is a recipe for irritation. Pads are porous by nature, and any fluid that gets on em will seep into them during use. Cleaning removes the surface layer (and maybe some embedded) contaminant, and once the pads warm up the contaminant flows out to the braking surface, making the brake garbage again. Avoid the pratfall and pony up for new pads. Rotors can be cleaned without issue. I prefer contact cleaner or a strong isopropyl, 93% or better, as they leave less residue behind. A clean water wipe after isn't a bad idea either.
How about the good old gas burner for cleaning pads? Asking because fire is fun.
1. Semi mets/organics no go. You'll smoke the friction material in both (usually walnut shells believe it or not) while also smoking the adhesive used to hold the thing together and to the backing plate. Bad idea. Shucking corn = good, shucking pads = bad.
2. Sintered/ceramic. Never had luck with it. The problem always returned. I tried all the fixes I saw folx post, MAPP gas, stove top burner, broil the pads for an hour. Each ended up with a death grip to get the bike to slow. And noise. So much damn noise. The job that made me try all those wasn't glamorous, but it provided a lotta good insights. One of those was just to replace the pads when they're contaminated. No amount of fudgery is gonna bring em back to even 80% of their intended friction.
They claim some sort of special caliper fluid channel and piston design, but I'm unsure if that is just regular brake design that their marketing department is jazzing up as if it's unique.
The tiniest amount of contamination will significantly reduce braking power. Maybe there is a tiny leak from oil on the pisons? Or some cleaning spray? Try...
The tiniest amount of contamination will significantly reduce braking power. Maybe there is a tiny leak from oil on the pisons? Or some cleaning spray? Try to degrease the caliper and disk with isopropyl alcohol and try new pads. And break them in properly.
I also once got contamination over night after I mobilized the pistons and put a bit too much oil on the side of the pistons. Or my brother once was frying steaks in the campervan and all the pads on the bikes in the rear compartment were contaminated. Usually the brakes squeal similar to when its raining when contaminated although its dry.
That is a wild story about the steaks but I can totally see that happening after noticing little dots on my shirts whenever I'm cooking something in oil that sizzles, and seeing the little wet specks all over the stove area. That is a good thing to keep in mind for whenever I get back into the campervan life, as that could really ruin a trip, especially if you have limited time to ride and need to spend a lot of it fixing your brakes, or if you're in a rural area without the necessary replacement pads.
No, I've never seen those before, and while we're talking about new MTB brake brands, I forget if we've already discussed these new HEL brakes earlier...
They claim some sort of special caliper fluid channel and piston design, but I'm unsure if that is just regular brake design that their marketing department is jazzing up as if it's unique.
By the numbers presented I think they will be nothing special honestly
The tiniest amount of contamination will significantly reduce braking power. Maybe there is a tiny leak from oil on the pisons? Or some cleaning spray? Try...
The tiniest amount of contamination will significantly reduce braking power. Maybe there is a tiny leak from oil on the pisons? Or some cleaning spray? Try to degrease the caliper and disk with isopropyl alcohol and try new pads. And break them in properly.
I also once got contamination over night after I mobilized the pistons and put a bit too much oil on the side of the pistons. Or my brother once was frying steaks in the campervan and all the pads on the bikes in the rear compartment were contaminated. Usually the brakes squeal similar to when its raining when contaminated although its dry.
That is a wild story about the steaks but I can totally see that happening after noticing little dots on my shirts whenever I'm cooking something...
That is a wild story about the steaks but I can totally see that happening after noticing little dots on my shirts whenever I'm cooking something in oil that sizzles, and seeing the little wet specks all over the stove area. That is a good thing to keep in mind for whenever I get back into the campervan life, as that could really ruin a trip, especially if you have limited time to ride and need to spend a lot of it fixing your brakes, or if you're in a rural area without the necessary replacement pads.
It happened. And you shouldn't really do that in a campervan anyway or it will smell really bad in no time. You should fry stuff outside or at least leave the side door open. But it was winter and he likes to cook...
I mean if you check thr extractor hood at home you'll notice that its covered in fat and in the campervan you usually don't have that and the heat makes little oil particles rising up in the air and they have to go somewhere. I also couldn't believe it at first but thank god I had extra pads.
I just installed my Radic Kaha brakes. I find that the rear pumps up pretty significantly (10mm). I've bled the brake perfectly to my knowledge, lubed the caliper pistons and tried pressurizing the system from the bleeding edge port etc. Is this due to the small orifices in the lever design or is there something I'm missing out on?
I just installed my Radic Kaha brakes. I find that the rear pumps up pretty significantly (10mm). I've bled the brake perfectly to my knowledge, lubed...
I just installed my Radic Kaha brakes. I find that the rear pumps up pretty significantly (10mm). I've bled the brake perfectly to my knowledge, lubed the caliper pistons and tried pressurizing the system from the bleeding edge port etc. Is this due to the small orifices in the lever design or is there something I'm missing out on?
Your bleed is most likely not as perfect as you think it is.
Do you have any tips for me?I bled them like this:-Removed from bike.-Wound contact point adjuster almost all the way out (there’s no stop in the...
Do you have any tips for me?
I bled them like this:
-Removed from bike.
-Wound contact point adjuster almost all the way out (there’s no stop in the adjuster at the fully wound out point).
-Pushed fluid from caliper up to the lever.
-Cycled the fluid back and forth about 5 times.
-Pushed out piston against a 4mm hex wrench and repeated cycling fluid back and forth.
-Pushed pistons back in.
-Zip tied lever to bar.
-Carefully pulled a little vacuum to draw any residual air from caliper.
-Pushed fluid from caliper up to the lever while releasing the zip tied lever slowly.
-Removed caliper syringe.
-Did a lever bleed by tilting it around and pushing and pulling on the syringe.
-Added positive pressure before removing lever syringe.
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid before doing the bleed, you should. I also use fresh fluid on every bleed, I dont re-use old, opened containers (assuming that you are using DOT) The lever is pretty good at trapping bubbles, and they can be a pain to get out. Once you have pushed fluid from the caliper to the lever, close the caliper and pull a good vacuum from the lever syringe. I made a "tool" that lets me pull the vacuum and not have to keep holding it, its a spacer made from an old extra-long socket that I cut a slot on with a die-grinder, been using it for years! Once you have the vacuum pulled you can move the lever body around and tap on it to force any bubbles up into the syringe. Once you get it, its good, but I I did a quick bleed on them when I got them and had a pretty big oh sh*t moment the first ride out when the front brake went to the bar halfway down the mountain... Once you get it they are solid. I will say they are probably one of the more difficult brakes to bleed of any modern disc brake IMO, but once you get them dialed they are one of the best brakes I've ever had the pleasure of riding.
I also have found that its pretty important to bleed with the pads in while the brake is on the bike. It's in the instructions and I glossed over that when I first bled the brakes which could have been my problem. Ive found that there is a single position for my bike that magically helps to migrate bubbles to the lever, hanging front tire up in my bike storage system, so i bleed the brakes with the bike in that position in the stand. Once I learned that and re-bled them in that position I haven't had to touch them, 5+ months and lots of weekends on the lifts.
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid...
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid before doing the bleed, you should. I also use fresh fluid on every bleed, I dont re-use old, opened containers (assuming that you are using DOT) The lever is pretty good at trapping bubbles, and they can be a pain to get out. Once you have pushed fluid from the caliper to the lever, close the caliper and pull a good vacuum from the lever syringe. I made a "tool" that lets me pull the vacuum and not have to keep holding it, its a spacer made from an old extra-long socket that I cut a slot on with a die-grinder, been using it for years! Once you have the vacuum pulled you can move the lever body around and tap on it to force any bubbles up into the syringe. Once you get it, its good, but I I did a quick bleed on them when I got them and had a pretty big oh sh*t moment the first ride out when the front brake went to the bar halfway down the mountain... Once you get it they are solid. I will say they are probably one of the more difficult brakes to bleed of any modern disc brake IMO, but once you get them dialed they are one of the best brakes I've ever had the pleasure of riding.
I also have found that its pretty important to bleed with the pads in while the brake is on the bike. It's in the instructions and I glossed over that when I first bled the brakes which could have been my problem. Ive found that there is a single position for my bike that magically helps to migrate bubbles to the lever, hanging front tire up in my bike storage system, so i bleed the brakes with the bike in that position in the stand. Once I learned that and re-bled them in that position I haven't had to touch them, 5+ months and lots of weekends on the lifts.
I’m running them with bionol so degassing won’t do me any favours afaik.
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid...
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid before doing the bleed, you should. I also use fresh fluid on every bleed, I dont re-use old, opened containers (assuming that you are using DOT) The lever is pretty good at trapping bubbles, and they can be a pain to get out. Once you have pushed fluid from the caliper to the lever, close the caliper and pull a good vacuum from the lever syringe. I made a "tool" that lets me pull the vacuum and not have to keep holding it, its a spacer made from an old extra-long socket that I cut a slot on with a die-grinder, been using it for years! Once you have the vacuum pulled you can move the lever body around and tap on it to force any bubbles up into the syringe. Once you get it, its good, but I I did a quick bleed on them when I got them and had a pretty big oh sh*t moment the first ride out when the front brake went to the bar halfway down the mountain... Once you get it they are solid. I will say they are probably one of the more difficult brakes to bleed of any modern disc brake IMO, but once you get them dialed they are one of the best brakes I've ever had the pleasure of riding.
I also have found that its pretty important to bleed with the pads in while the brake is on the bike. It's in the instructions and I glossed over that when I first bled the brakes which could have been my problem. Ive found that there is a single position for my bike that magically helps to migrate bubbles to the lever, hanging front tire up in my bike storage system, so i bleed the brakes with the bike in that position in the stand. Once I learned that and re-bled them in that position I haven't had to touch them, 5+ months and lots of weekends on the lifts.
Also, what did you set the contact point adjustment to when bleeding them?
My current issues are: Front brake reservoir membrane can’t handle pulling a vacuum. When I have a syringe connected to the lever and push positive pressure, it doesn’t leak from the vent hole. But if I pull on the syringe to create a vacuum, it sucks air in like crazy.
Rear brake can handle a vacuum but if I depress the lever while pulling the vacuum, it sucks air in just like the front brake.
The rear membrane leaked like crazy when I first bled it but removing and reinstalling the bladder seemed to fix it. I did the same to the front brake but it didn’t fix it.
Neither brake seems to leak from the master cylinder pistons and hose connections are all tight and not leaking.
I’m wondering if I have a bad set…
I truly wonder how components of this pricepoint can have these issues from new especially when they are hand built and tested.
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid...
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid before doing the bleed, you should. I also use fresh fluid on every bleed, I dont re-use old, opened containers (assuming that you are using DOT) The lever is pretty good at trapping bubbles, and they can be a pain to get out. Once you have pushed fluid from the caliper to the lever, close the caliper and pull a good vacuum from the lever syringe. I made a "tool" that lets me pull the vacuum and not have to keep holding it, its a spacer made from an old extra-long socket that I cut a slot on with a die-grinder, been using it for years! Once you have the vacuum pulled you can move the lever body around and tap on it to force any bubbles up into the syringe. Once you get it, its good, but I I did a quick bleed on them when I got them and had a pretty big oh sh*t moment the first ride out when the front brake went to the bar halfway down the mountain... Once you get it they are solid. I will say they are probably one of the more difficult brakes to bleed of any modern disc brake IMO, but once you get them dialed they are one of the best brakes I've ever had the pleasure of riding.
I also have found that its pretty important to bleed with the pads in while the brake is on the bike. It's in the instructions and I glossed over that when I first bled the brakes which could have been my problem. Ive found that there is a single position for my bike that magically helps to migrate bubbles to the lever, hanging front tire up in my bike storage system, so i bleed the brakes with the bike in that position in the stand. Once I learned that and re-bled them in that position I haven't had to touch them, 5+ months and lots of weekends on the lifts.
Also, what did you set the contact point adjustment to when bleeding them?My current issues are:Front brake reservoir membrane can’t handle pulling a vacuum. When I...
Also, what did you set the contact point adjustment to when bleeding them?
My current issues are: Front brake reservoir membrane can’t handle pulling a vacuum. When I have a syringe connected to the lever and push positive pressure, it doesn’t leak from the vent hole. But if I pull on the syringe to create a vacuum, it sucks air in like crazy.
Rear brake can handle a vacuum but if I depress the lever while pulling the vacuum, it sucks air in just like the front brake.
The rear membrane leaked like crazy when I first bled it but removing and reinstalling the bladder seemed to fix it. I did the same to the front brake but it didn’t fix it.
Neither brake seems to leak from the master cylinder pistons and hose connections are all tight and not leaking.
I’m wondering if I have a bad set…
I truly wonder how components of this pricepoint can have these issues from new especially when they are hand built and tested.
Something doesn't sound right; I would reach out to Taylor. I can pull a vacuum strong enough to collapse the syringe line and not start sucking bubbles. Just out of curiosity what bleed kit are you using? I tried using an older Jagwire kit when I first got the brakes and ran into issues with the tapered port not sealing and sucking air from that interface, I ended up getting the Park pro kit, which works much better and made it possible to get a good bleed. I found that if I set the bite point two turns out from closing off the transfer port I get a good bleed and have plenty of adjustment to dial the bite to where I want.
Something doesn't sound right; I would reach out to Taylor. I can pull a vacuum strong enough to collapse the syringe line and not start sucking...
Something doesn't sound right; I would reach out to Taylor. I can pull a vacuum strong enough to collapse the syringe line and not start sucking bubbles. Just out of curiosity what bleed kit are you using? I tried using an older Jagwire kit when I first got the brakes and ran into issues with the tapered port not sealing and sucking air from that interface, I ended up getting the Park pro kit, which works much better and made it possible to get a good bleed. I found that if I set the bite point two turns out from closing off the transfer port I get a good bleed and have plenty of adjustment to dial the bite to where I want.
Hope you get them sorted out!
I’ve sent Taylor multiple emails to explain the issues. I’m using a Jagwire elite bleed kit, the same he sells on the website so I thought it would be best.
I’m positive the leakage is not from the bleed kit since I can pull a strong vacuum with the same syringe on the rear but not on the front lever.
I’ve sent Taylor multiple emails to explain the issues. I’m using a Jagwire elite bleed kit, the same he sells on the website so I thought...
I’ve sent Taylor multiple emails to explain the issues. I’m using a Jagwire elite bleed kit, the same he sells on the website so I thought it would be best.
I’m positive the leakage is not from the bleed kit since I can pull a strong vacuum with the same syringe on the rear but not on the front lever.
I have no experience with the Radic brakes, but just wanted to chime in to say that, for all brake manufacturers, it would be a boon for both the consumer and the seller if they could: A: Deliver or suggest a bleed kit that will seal reliably under vacuum, and B: Design their brake so that the reservoir bladder/membrane (and MC seal!) can handle the negative pressure range generated by pulling on a syringe. I know many brakes can be bled "sufficiently" without negative pressure, but if you have ever watched a sticky bubble in a translucent line grow and shrink in response to +/- pressure, you will have seen how valuable it can be to vary the system pressure when bleeding the brake.
On a related note, what percentage of current brakes have a vent hole in the bladder/membrane? I can see why it is tempting to include one, to prevent over pressurization in odd circumstances, but it seems like it introduces as many problems as it solves. If I was designing a brake, I might be tempted to add one, but would only add it if it could be designed so it had a sort of exterior flap that would seal against the face of the membrane in neutral and negative pressure scenarios, but open in positive pressure scenarios.
Absolutely an informative thread. It took me two days to read it all.
I'm running Shimano Saint brakes with Shimano XT SM RT-86 203mm discs. My recipe for success has been that I change a new set of Shimano H03C metal disc brake pads every spring at the start of the season. My observation is that changing the pads is quite a cheap way to zeroize the free lever movement to near zero and get a good grip also during the season if some issues occur. I also keep the master cylinders pressurized during storage with velcro straps. A couple of random bleeds here and there also seem to keep the green liquid green and braking power in good shape.
My other bike (ebike) has Hayes Dominion A4 for trail riding. Their only problem has been that pads are so done that free lever movement is getting ridiculous. I think new pads would fix them also. In theory, it shouldn't be like this but my impression from bicycle brake is that anything can happen.
Question: I would like to the rotors from 203mm - > 220mm. The idea that I'm chasing is that with bigger rotors I would get the same braking power with less lever pull. It's more a curious test than a real critical need. Are there any specific rotors that would be valuable to look after?
Galfer 223mm sounds to be good. Braking Epta two-piece 2,2mm / 220mm would be nice looking but doesn't fit.
Absolutely an informative thread. It took me two days to read it all.I'm running Shimano Saint brakes with Shimano XT SM RT-86 203mm discs. My recipe...
Absolutely an informative thread. It took me two days to read it all.
I'm running Shimano Saint brakes with Shimano XT SM RT-86 203mm discs. My recipe for success has been that I change a new set of Shimano H03C metal disc brake pads every spring at the start of the season. My observation is that changing the pads is quite a cheap way to zeroize the free lever movement to near zero and get a good grip also during the season if some issues occur. I also keep the master cylinders pressurized during storage with velcro straps. A couple of random bleeds here and there also seem to keep the green liquid green and braking power in good shape.
My other bike (ebike) has Hayes Dominion A4 for trail riding. Their only problem has been that pads are so done that free lever movement is getting ridiculous. I think new pads would fix them also. In theory, it shouldn't be like this but my impression from bicycle brake is that anything can happen.
Question: I would like to the rotors from 203mm - > 220mm. The idea that I'm chasing is that with bigger rotors I would get the same braking power with less lever pull. It's more a curious test than a real critical need. Are there any specific rotors that would be valuable to look after?
Galfer 223mm sounds to be good. Braking Epta two-piece 2,2mm / 220mm would be nice looking but doesn't fit.
Running a bigger rotor achieves less finger force needed at the lever. But keep in mind that if you never get a 220mm rotor up to temperature, a 200mm rotor can have more power as it heats up faster.
I’ve ran:
Intend massive 223
Galfer Wave 223
Sram centerline 220
Sram HS2 220
Hope floating 220
TRP R1 223
Magura MDR-P 220
Out of all these I currently run the hopes. They’re thin at 1.8mm but due to the riveted design they’re the quietest rotors I’ve ever had. By quietest I meant it in the sense that they don’t ”ring” like 1-piece rotors.
I would run MDR-P’s but they don’t make the 220mm version in centerlock. (I hate that Chris King decided to make centerlock hubs only for 2022-2023 and then switched back to also making 6-bolt hubs).
The ringing is a really minor thing to most but when you otherwise have a completely quiet bike, I cant stand the ringing sound that happens when I’m off the brakes or when I drop my bike on the ground.
If you get a 1-piece rotor, make sure it’s as thick as it can be so it’ll be as rigid as possible. This is to reduce the likelyhood of warping. With a 2-piece/riveted rotor, the brake track thickness isn’t as crucial IMO as the carrier will provide the needed stiffness.
Running a bigger rotor achieves less finger force needed at the lever. But keep in mind that if you never get a 220mm rotor up to...
Running a bigger rotor achieves less finger force needed at the lever. But keep in mind that if you never get a 220mm rotor up to temperature, a 200mm rotor can have more power as it heats up faster.
I’ve ran:
Intend massive 223
Galfer Wave 223
Sram centerline 220
Sram HS2 220
Hope floating 220
TRP R1 223
Magura MDR-P 220
Out of all these I currently run the hopes. They’re thin at 1.8mm but due to the riveted design they’re the quietest rotors I’ve ever had. By quietest I meant it in the sense that they don’t ”ring” like 1-piece rotors.
I would run MDR-P’s but they don’t make the 220mm version in centerlock. (I hate that Chris King decided to make centerlock hubs only for 2022-2023 and then switched back to also making 6-bolt hubs).
The ringing is a really minor thing to most but when you otherwise have a completely quiet bike, I cant stand the ringing sound that happens when I’m off the brakes or when I drop my bike on the ground.
If you get a 1-piece rotor, make sure it’s as thick as it can be so it’ll be as rigid as possible. This is to reduce the likelyhood of warping. With a 2-piece/riveted rotor, the brake track thickness isn’t as crucial IMO as the carrier will provide the needed stiffness.
Have you considered centre lock adaptors and if so, what's your reason to avoid them?
I only use brake cleaner for the disc as its more aggressive than isopropyl alcohol. But I always could save the disc. Only had to throw away the pads.
Galfer makes some great cheap 2.0 rotors. Seems like you are getting heat build/contact from the 2.3
I was told by MTX if you have contamination to use acetone and its a bit more aggressive than isopropyl. I believe you can try that on the pads too and sand them down as well, but don't quote me on that.
I use isopropyl alcohol and 80 to 180 grit emery paper/cloth (just depends what I have on hand).
For the pads, soapy water in the sink (plug in). Rub the pads against each other. Followed by just water, rubbing the pads together. Might take some rubbing (sometimes not long), but you know when they are done as the pads start gripping each other.
Has always worked for me.
Brake cleaner is a really strong solvent, for some things even stronger than acetone (cleaning an oil pan gasket sealer works really well while acetone hardly does anything). No worries about the strength of it.
Agreed with the others about it sounding like contaminated pads. What make and model of brake are they, how old, and when and what was the last service on em?
IME 'cleaning' pads after a contamination is a recipe for irritation. Pads are porous by nature, and any fluid that gets on em will seep into them during use. Cleaning removes the surface layer (and maybe some embedded) contaminant, and once the pads warm up the contaminant flows out to the braking surface, making the brake garbage again. Avoid the pratfall and pony up for new pads. Rotors can be cleaned without issue. I prefer contact cleaner or a strong isopropyl, 93% or better, as they leave less residue behind. A clean water wipe after isn't a bad idea either.
How about the good old gas burner for cleaning pads? Asking because fire is fun.
1. Semi mets/organics no go. You'll smoke the friction material in both (usually walnut shells believe it or not) while also smoking the adhesive used to hold the thing together and to the backing plate. Bad idea. Shucking corn = good, shucking pads = bad.
2. Sintered/ceramic. Never had luck with it. The problem always returned. I tried all the fixes I saw folx post, MAPP gas, stove top burner, broil the pads for an hour. Each ended up with a death grip to get the bike to slow. And noise. So much damn noise. The job that made me try all those wasn't glamorous, but it provided a lotta good insights. One of those was just to replace the pads when they're contaminated. No amount of fudgery is gonna bring em back to even 80% of their intended friction.
Has anyone ever seen these?
I’ve seen them in a custom build and got curious, never heard of the company
https://www.rideraicam.com/en/products/rgr-racing-brake-system/
No, I've never seen those before, and while we're talking about new MTB brake brands, I forget if we've already discussed these new HEL brakes earlier in this huge thread? https://www.bikemag.com/industry-news/hel-advocate-mountain-bike-brake
They claim some sort of special caliper fluid channel and piston design, but I'm unsure if that is just regular brake design that their marketing department is jazzing up as if it's unique.
That is a wild story about the steaks but I can totally see that happening after noticing little dots on my shirts whenever I'm cooking something in oil that sizzles, and seeing the little wet specks all over the stove area. That is a good thing to keep in mind for whenever I get back into the campervan life, as that could really ruin a trip, especially if you have limited time to ride and need to spend a lot of it fixing your brakes, or if you're in a rural area without the necessary replacement pads.
By the numbers presented I think they will be nothing special honestly
It happened. And you shouldn't really do that in a campervan anyway or it will smell really bad in no time. You should fry stuff outside or at least leave the side door open. But it was winter and he likes to cook...
I mean if you check thr extractor hood at home you'll notice that its covered in fat and in the campervan you usually don't have that and the heat makes little oil particles rising up in the air and they have to go somewhere. I also couldn't believe it at first but thank god I had extra pads.
I just installed my Radic Kaha brakes. I find that the rear pumps up pretty significantly (10mm). I've bled the brake perfectly to my knowledge, lubed the caliper pistons and tried pressurizing the system from the bleeding edge port etc. Is this due to the small orifices in the lever design or is there something I'm missing out on?
Your bleed is most likely not as perfect as you think it is.
Do you have any tips for me?
I bled them like this:
-Removed from bike.
-Wound contact point adjuster almost all the way out (there’s no stop in the adjuster at the fully wound out point).
-Pushed fluid from caliper up to the lever.
-Cycled the fluid back and forth about 5 times.
-Pushed out piston against a 4mm hex wrench and repeated cycling fluid back and forth.
-Pushed pistons back in.
-Zip tied lever to bar.
-Carefully pulled a little vacuum to draw any residual air from caliper.
-Pushed fluid from caliper up to the lever while releasing the zip tied lever slowly.
-Removed caliper syringe.
-Did a lever bleed by tilting it around and pushing and pulling on the syringe.
-Added positive pressure before removing lever syringe.
I have had good luck tapping on brake lines with a wrench while pushing/pulling fluid through the lines.
Definitely a bleed issue... I've been on the new, with contact point adjustment, brakes for about 6 months now. If you are not degassing the fluid before doing the bleed, you should. I also use fresh fluid on every bleed, I dont re-use old, opened containers (assuming that you are using DOT) The lever is pretty good at trapping bubbles, and they can be a pain to get out. Once you have pushed fluid from the caliper to the lever, close the caliper and pull a good vacuum from the lever syringe. I made a "tool" that lets me pull the vacuum and not have to keep holding it, its a spacer made from an old extra-long socket that I cut a slot on with a die-grinder, been using it for years! Once you have the vacuum pulled you can move the lever body around and tap on it to force any bubbles up into the syringe. Once you get it, its good, but I I did a quick bleed on them when I got them and had a pretty big oh sh*t moment the first ride out when the front brake went to the bar halfway down the mountain... Once you get it they are solid. I will say they are probably one of the more difficult brakes to bleed of any modern disc brake IMO, but once you get them dialed they are one of the best brakes I've ever had the pleasure of riding.
I also have found that its pretty important to bleed with the pads in while the brake is on the bike. It's in the instructions and I glossed over that when I first bled the brakes which could have been my problem. Ive found that there is a single position for my bike that magically helps to migrate bubbles to the lever, hanging front tire up in my bike storage system, so i bleed the brakes with the bike in that position in the stand. Once I learned that and re-bled them in that position I haven't had to touch them, 5+ months and lots of weekends on the lifts.
I’m running them with bionol so degassing won’t do me any favours afaik.
Also, what did you set the contact point adjustment to when bleeding them?
My current issues are:
Front brake reservoir membrane can’t handle pulling a vacuum. When I have a syringe connected to the lever and push positive pressure, it doesn’t leak from the vent hole. But if I pull on the syringe to create a vacuum, it sucks air in like crazy.
Rear brake can handle a vacuum but if I depress the lever while pulling the vacuum, it sucks air in just like the front brake.
The rear membrane leaked like crazy when I first bled it but removing and reinstalling the bladder seemed to fix it. I did the same to the front brake but it didn’t fix it.
Neither brake seems to leak from the master cylinder pistons and hose connections are all tight and not leaking.
I’m wondering if I have a bad set…
I truly wonder how components of this pricepoint can have these issues from new especially when they are hand built and tested.
Something doesn't sound right; I would reach out to Taylor. I can pull a vacuum strong enough to collapse the syringe line and not start sucking bubbles. Just out of curiosity what bleed kit are you using? I tried using an older Jagwire kit when I first got the brakes and ran into issues with the tapered port not sealing and sucking air from that interface, I ended up getting the Park pro kit, which works much better and made it possible to get a good bleed. I found that if I set the bite point two turns out from closing off the transfer port I get a good bleed and have plenty of adjustment to dial the bite to where I want.
Hope you get them sorted out!
I’ve sent Taylor multiple emails to explain the issues. I’m using a Jagwire elite bleed kit, the same he sells on the website so I thought it would be best.
I’m positive the leakage is not from the bleed kit since I can pull a strong vacuum with the same syringe on the rear but not on the front lever.
Sounds like they're still as fussy as ever 🙄 I fixed mine by selling them 🤣
I have no experience with the Radic brakes, but just wanted to chime in to say that, for all brake manufacturers, it would be a boon for both the consumer and the seller if they could: A: Deliver or suggest a bleed kit that will seal reliably under vacuum, and B: Design their brake so that the reservoir bladder/membrane (and MC seal!) can handle the negative pressure range generated by pulling on a syringe. I know many brakes can be bled "sufficiently" without negative pressure, but if you have ever watched a sticky bubble in a translucent line grow and shrink in response to +/- pressure, you will have seen how valuable it can be to vary the system pressure when bleeding the brake.
On a related note, what percentage of current brakes have a vent hole in the bladder/membrane? I can see why it is tempting to include one, to prevent over pressurization in odd circumstances, but it seems like it introduces as many problems as it solves. If I was designing a brake, I might be tempted to add one, but would only add it if it could be designed so it had a sort of exterior flap that would seal against the face of the membrane in neutral and negative pressure scenarios, but open in positive pressure scenarios.
What do you mean with the vent hole in the membrane?
There are vent holes in the membrane cover. The membrane can't have any holes in it.
Absolutely an informative thread. It took me two days to read it all.
I'm running Shimano Saint brakes with Shimano XT SM RT-86 203mm discs. My recipe for success has been that I change a new set of Shimano H03C metal disc brake pads every spring at the start of the season. My observation is that changing the pads is quite a cheap way to zeroize the free lever movement to near zero and get a good grip also during the season if some issues occur. I also keep the master cylinders pressurized during storage with velcro straps. A couple of random bleeds here and there also seem to keep the green liquid green and braking power in good shape.
My other bike (ebike) has Hayes Dominion A4 for trail riding. Their only problem has been that pads are so done that free lever movement is getting ridiculous. I think new pads would fix them also. In theory, it shouldn't be like this but my impression from bicycle brake is that anything can happen.
Question: I would like to the rotors from 203mm - > 220mm. The idea that I'm chasing is that with bigger rotors I would get the same braking power with less lever pull. It's more a curious test than a real critical need. Are there any specific rotors that would be valuable to look after?
Galfer 223mm sounds to be good. Braking Epta two-piece 2,2mm / 220mm would be nice looking but doesn't fit.
Running a bigger rotor achieves less finger force needed at the lever. But keep in mind that if you never get a 220mm rotor up to temperature, a 200mm rotor can have more power as it heats up faster.
I’ve ran:
Intend massive 223
Galfer Wave 223
Sram centerline 220
Sram HS2 220
Hope floating 220
TRP R1 223
Magura MDR-P 220
Out of all these I currently run the hopes. They’re thin at 1.8mm but due to the riveted design they’re the quietest rotors I’ve ever had. By quietest I meant it in the sense that they don’t ”ring” like 1-piece rotors.
I would run MDR-P’s but they don’t make the 220mm version in centerlock. (I hate that Chris King decided to make centerlock hubs only for 2022-2023 and then switched back to also making 6-bolt hubs).
The ringing is a really minor thing to most but when you otherwise have a completely quiet bike, I cant stand the ringing sound that happens when I’m off the brakes or when I drop my bike on the ground.
If you get a 1-piece rotor, make sure it’s as thick as it can be so it’ll be as rigid as possible. This is to reduce the likelyhood of warping. With a 2-piece/riveted rotor, the brake track thickness isn’t as crucial IMO as the carrier will provide the needed stiffness.
Anyone know the master cylinder diameter for mavens? Sorry if I missed this deeper in the thread
I think it's 9.5mm from memory
Have you considered centre lock adaptors and if so, what's your reason to avoid them?
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment