Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

Yeah I would never claim that these are anything close to Trickstuff lol but the value per dollar is pretty remarkable with these brakes compared to other things in their price range. 

I think everybody on Vital is acutely aware by now of just how much you hate Lewis brakes... 

👀 Probably a shit idea, but fun to try. 

Just do it

Weird I wonder who said that. The design is definitely reminiscent of trick stuff but the quality is definitely not the same. However the fit and finish on these brakes does seem to a but better than the other options in this price range. They turn heads wherever I bring the bike 

If you’re looking at the LHT sets then yeah. But the LH4 is significantly cheaper than a hope counterpart. My friend has the hopes on his bike and they’re really awesome. I do prefer the slightly lighter lever feel on the Lewis but the hope definitely has a more premium finish by the Lewis but the Lewis is nicer than basically anything else relative to its price range 

I feel like lots of popular mainstream brakes use staggered piston sizes. The LHT offers more adjustability and a little more power over the LH4 but the LH4 still delivers tons of stopping power even with the 17/14mm piston combo. As much if not more power than my DH-R Evos. I currently plan the run the LHT on my bike and the LH4 on my trail bike. 

Triven 🤷

Seems to work OK, haven't ridden properly yet. 

Definitely a heavier lever till bite point. Then it seems to be really effortless to bring on power. But will have to see how it holds up. 

Haha, maven calipers have several advantages over the maximas. Mostly bleed related. They are beefy Bois that's for sure! 

Bottom loading pads suck though. I think their pad massage step is shit too. Seems risky to jam something against clean pads to me. A thinner bleed block would be easier.

The seals in them are awfully sticky too, TS smokes them in that regard. 

Was gonna try with Radic levers too. 

How long are yall running your brake pads? I have Cura 4s with Galfer advanced pads and Galfer 220/200 rotors and i feel like im going through pads like a bag of chips. 
 

not the lightest rider at 87kg but still seems pretty fast to me compared to ye olde Saint pads i had before

I had both of these and can comment. 

As they mentioned, the Trickstuff brakes have a more linear power delivery. This means that a pull of the lever is going to gradually get you more power, it is there but it comes on a lot slower. Similar to Hopes, these have a sortof more vague bite point. I don't mean that in a bad way, just that unlike most other brakes other than Hope, there isn't a significant increase in force required to pull the lever once the pads engage. It's a very subtle feeling as you pull on the lever. That's not a bad thing necessarily, but it does require a longer lever throw, so you can' trun them super close to the bars. I really like they have a method for straightening the hose out, this is something I had issues with using Hope brakes. The bleed process is a bit of a pain but I only had to do it once, the lever is generally pretty easy to install on your bars, however I found the reach adjuster got in the way of some controls. Nitpicks, but great if you like slower, more linear power delivery. 

The Intends are closer to Mavens in the way they deliver power. There is a more pronounced bite point in the lever feel and the power comes on a lot faster. They are more like traditional brakes in how they feel, the closest I'd compare them to are the Hayes Dominions, although the Intends have a lighter lever pull and are more fade resistant. The lever hose can rotate so there are no risks of kinks, which is nice, and disconnecting doesn't require cutting and installing a new fitting, which is very nice. There are two undisclosed problems with these, however. The first is the lever length, it is very far inboard and there is a brace, which means if you run really large grips or run your hands far out on the bars, you may not be able to reach the lever. I don't think this is a problem for 99% of cases, but I have to run the lever close to slammed against the grips and you lose adjustment position based on this, it can also effect other cockpit controls. Second, the caliper is WIDE, 43mm-ish wide (3-5mm wider than most), this isn't a problem in a lot of cases but if you run something with thick spokes like BERD or PiRope (I'm guessing/presuming on the latter), then the caliper may strike the spokes. This won't be an issue for most people, but something to note. The pads are great, the bleed process is super simple (although it took a bit more time than others since the rear comes dry), and I've had no maintenance issues. They come with fluid and a bleed kit.

In general, I prefer the Intends. They are easy to work on, easy to bleed, and very consistent with a more defined bite point. If I could just run those, I would. The Trickstuff brakes are very good, but a few minor refinements aside, I don't see the value in them vs Hope. Trickstuff parts are harder to come by, Bionol is near impossible to find in the US, they are harder to bleed, and feel very similar at the lever (Hope power comes on a bit faster though). I've also heard stories of cracked pistons and issues with support, but I wouldn't know personally. The Intends have no real rival that I've found, they are the best boutique brake on the market I've tried. IMO the Trickstuff brakes are a hard sell vs Hope, especially considering you have to find fluid and a bleed kit, at $1200 it's a difficult value proposition for me and I feel they should come with both of these things.

Agreed with all the points for both brakes. As someone who ran all SRAM brakes for 7+ years I am still finding comfort with Trickstuff. I had a bad crash on the Intend because I accidentally grabbed a handful by accident and got sent OTB. It is 100% me but now I am a little hesitant to brake hard with them haha. I am sure Hayes or Shimano users won't have that issue. 

As for Bionol, luckily we have a TS dealer (Smith Creek Cycle) in BC that carries these essentials. I personally stocked up on O-rings, hoses, pistons and lever replacement when ordering them from Germany. It is most certainly a splurge and I normally recommend Hayes brakes as a sensible option.

Yep, I've been tempted by the Infinity too, but always miss out on them so have given up. And got fed up of seeing them for resale at a hiked price.

I'd have bought the Maximas if they were ever available when I had spare funds. The DT Swiss acquisition hasn't made things any better in that regard. If anything their distribution and availability has got worse. And they can't blame Brexit or Covid for that anymore.

How good would the MT7 Pro be with a CNC'd master though. I'd happily spend money on them if they did that!

The plastic is strong enough unless you have a weird crash or are ham fisted and pay no attention to the torque settings. They do sell some lovely (and expensive) preset torque wrenches that are very good.

In my experience the main seal mostly fails because people reset the pads without cracking the bleed screw open. Or they've overfilled trying to do a sneaky top bleed without removing the pads and using the bleed block.

The Trinity brakes are really really good. I've tried a lot of brakes recently (Code, Saint, MT7, Radic Kaha, Intend, Maxima, Maven, Dominion, Hope T4 V4, a few others I'm probably forgetting) and they are my favorite of the group. I strongly recommend them to anyone interested and willing to pay/run a niche product like that, with the caveats I mentioned above. 

They do take a little bit longer to sortof 'bed in' than others. The pads took longer than I was used to for the power to come in, but I also had a minor issue with the pad dragging slightly. After I rode some steeper stuff and got them moving a bit more, that went away. They feel like a more boutique, refined Dominion. 

The obvious downside is getting ahold of them. 

I am interested to see what Magura does in the near future. They've been liquidating MT7s at heavily discounted rates and I suspect something new is on the horizon. I really liked the feel of the MT7s, but felt the lever body could use some refinement and the initial bite of the pads was a bit lacking compared to similar options. 

Oh there are plenty of Maximas available and their stock is miles better than what it used to be https://www.bike24.com/p2314798.html?searchTerm=maxima&source=SBP&index…

$1176 USD + tax

maximas are available all other germany? even the scalpers stopped trying to sell them 

how would you rank all the high end brakes you tested and why?

Bike24 don’t ship to UK.

It’s too late to blame brexit or covid now, they just haven’t sorted their shit.

I’m tending away from them now as they haven’t done any updates for years and seem to be resting on their laurels a bit (kevlar hose is not an update).

We can hate on Lewis for “copying” but they also added in some really cool features making bleeding easier and improving the adjustability at the lever.

What have Trickstuff done since Cornelius Kapfinger (Intend) designed them?

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to work on, and all (mostly) consistent. I mainly say that because people adore Saints and I found them to be the weaker in almost every category compared to others, but still good. 

I'd also caveat that "power" is somewhat misunderstood IMO. Most people don't have the means to measure overall, total available power, rather they base it on how the brakes feel. A brake like the Maximas may have a ton of overall power, but the Mavens feel more powerful because the power comes on sooner as the brake ramps up. This will also be relative to your weight and how you want the levers to feel.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll go into more detail. For reference, I'm 220lbs on a ~33lb steel 29er.

Power: Maven >= Radic > Intend > Maxima > Hope T4 V4 > Dominion > MT7 > Saint - The Mavens have a very quick power deliver,y once the pads engage the difference between "I'm slowing down" and "I'm skidding" is miniscule. This can be dialed in with contact point adjust, but they apply power more progressively than any other brake I've tried. The Radics have a really similar feel with a lighter lever, but feel a bit more controlled and have less deadstroke, basically instant engagement, I ran these closer to the bar than any other brake. The Intends are very close to that feel, but with a much lighter feeling lever and overall better feel, although they lack contact adjust so you can't tweak them as easily. Both Maximas and T4 V4s have enormous power available, but it comes on later in the stroke and is harder to define in lever feel and requires a longer lever throw to obtain. They are the epitome of having a smooth, light, powerful brake that requires a longer lever stroke to get there. I love Dominions and I loved the MT7s, but the power comes on later especially with the latter. I didn't find Saints to be as powerful but they are good enough. 

Consistency: Basically all of the above were consistent with two exceptions. I have been able to fade Dominions on long, flowy descents. I've torched them more than a few times with no change in lever feel, but I've had them turn mushy a few times and that's not an issue I had with most of the others. On the Saints, I had the wandering bite point problems I had with every other Shimano brake, but only in cold and I think this is, in part, due to brake technique where two quick pulls of the lever causes it to change. Some don't have this problem, I did. The rest were very consistent, rarely changed lever feel, and I had no issues in hot/cold or with fade provided they were bled properly. The Mavens did exhibit some wandering bite point (BADLY) when they were new out of the box, but doing the piston massage procedure did away with it. 

Lever feel: (For me and what I'm after) Intend > Radic > Hope > Maxima > Dominion > MT7 > Saint > Maven - The Maven lever feel isn't as bad as people act like it is, but it is firm compared to the others. It's not that it is unusable or awful, just that the other options are smoother and require less force through the deadstroke (I'd argue the engaged force to power is better than some are acting with the Mavens though). I loved the feel of them overall, but the stiffer spring is off putting compared to others. The MT7s were very consistent and smooth, but power came on later than I liked, the first few rides on them I blew a few corners because I kept expecting them to grab faster coming from the Radics. The Hope and Maximas have a lot in common, it's a very light feeling lever even when the pads engage, but it can be somewhat vague if you aren't used to them compared to others, you don't get that 'wall' of sorts you do with other brakes, it is light all the way through and that can take some adjustment. The Radics have a super smooth lever but engage almost immediately with no deadstroke. The Intends are the best of the above, moderate deadstroke, even power delivery, smooth/light lever feel, easy to identify the brake point, and good ergonomics. My preference in this category is a quick power delivery, but lighter riders or those who want a longer lever throw might place Hope or Trickstuff higher.

Aesthetics: They are all nice except the Mavens. They are the ugliest thing on my bike at the moment and I'm dying to get them off. It's very off putting for an otherwise great brake. The Trickstuff, Hope, and Intends are all beautiful in their own unique ways. 

Cockpit: The Mavens suffer from the reservoir sitting too close to the bar. This means controls may not fit where you want because it interferes with the reservoir being so damn close. Otherwise you have a lot of positioning with the lever. The Dominion and MT7 share a lot of similarities in this regard as well, but aren't super notable otherwise, you have plenty of lateral movement across the bar to position them and your controls, although I prefer hinged levers. The Hopes have a super long lever blade that might interfere, but I found that they sat so far inboard it didn't interfere with my other controls. The Radics, Intends, and Maximas all have a lever brace on the reservoir. This is a good thing that prevents flex, BUT it also means that some controls won't sit properly outboard of the clamp due to the lever brace being in the way, this is particularly noticeable on the Radics. The Maximas are generally OK in this regard, but the lever reach adjuster might conflict with controls. The Intends have one possibly fatal flaw I mentioned before: the brace position combined with the usable lever length means using long grips like Meaty Paws positions the lever so far inboard you can't reach it. I have it near slammed against my grips and it's fine, but this may be a problem for people with certain hand sizes. The Saints have a super nice, rigid feeling clamp that I wish others would adopt. The Mavens will flex slightly under heavy power, IMO they should've adopted a stronger clamp, Matchmaker just isn't it.

Install/Bleed/etc: The Intends are the cleanest bleeding brake I've used, they are super easy to bleed and install, I also like that they use a reusable fitting that rotates. The Maximas are more work due to the braided hoses, but are pretty easy if you can cut them properly, they also have instructions for aligning the hoses, which is nice. The bleed process for the Maximas is often complained about but I had no issues, I just followed the instructions and it worked out. They should include the bleed block with the brakes, it's absurd they don't. I had issues with the Hope hose kinking and twisting, but other than that it wasn't noteworthy. The Saints, MT7s, Dominions, were all easy to bleed and install, although I know some report problems with alignment on the MT7s and bleed problems, but I didn't have that issue. The Radics are easy as well once you get used to working with the braided hoses, the Bleeding Edge fitting they use is super nice. Finding Bionol in the US is a nightmare though, for those and Trickstuff. The Dominion bleed block includes a half block on one side you can use to work the pistons out safely and clean them, IMO everyone should do this. Hope provides something similar in the form of a STL file you can 3d print, but not everyone will have access to one to do this.

Value: Overall the Dominions are the best combination of everything IMO, if not the best at any one category, but for the price you get a lot of good stuff that makes them the best value IMO. The Trickstuff are a hard sell at $1200 and I think it's dumb they don't include the bleed kit, block, and especially fluid given how hard it is to find. The Intends I feel are a good value considering everything they come with and their performance, but they are hard to obtain and no doubt expensive. Hopes are kindof middling, more expensive than Dominions, but cheaper than the others and offering similar performance/feel. The problem with them is quickly finding parts if you are in the US. You can get MT7s very cheap these days, but I'd still opt for Dominions over them given the other factors. 

If you like running levers close to the bar and want a ton of power, get the Radics, there is no better option with such a short deadstroke to power point. If you want a long, linear, smooth pull with gradual power delivery, Hope T4 V4 or Maximas will get you there, with the Maximas being slightly more complicated to work on and harder to find parts for (this may be a major issue down the line and is my #1 concern with anything Trickstuff). If you want rapid power delivery, the Mavens, Radics, or Intends all fall into that category (in that order), the Mavens require more throw than the Radics but power comes on faster once the pads engage. Overall for most people I usually suggest the Dominions, they are a good average point despite not being the best at everything, they are good at everything and lack the pitfalls of some of the others. For very heavy riders, Mavens or Radics would be my choice. Lighter riders would get along better with the Hopes, Maximas, Dominions, and possibly MT7s. The Intends are a slightly more powerful, easier to work, and refined Dominion, so if you can get them and don't fall into one extreme or the other in how you want them to feel or weight range, they are amazing.

I haven't tried TRP, Beringer, or that brand that's a number (I forget what it is).

do you have the radic with the bitepoint adjuster or the older version?

I had the original version, I haven't seen the new one with the bite point adjustment, although I have heard it is either in development or out there now. Of all the brakes here, it needed it more than any of them, those things go from zero to locked crazy fast.