I find it funny that people are hating on Walmart for investing in MTB. I thought we all wanted the return of big corporate sponsors for...
I find it funny that people are hating on Walmart for investing in MTB. I thought we all wanted the return of big corporate sponsors for race teams etc? Seems like a good thing to me. Maybe a bit cheesy to proclaim Bentonville the world capital of MTB but otherwise pretty cool.
It would be great to see more non-endemic sponsors step into the promotion of our sport, but you can simultaneously express skepticism about their motives or about particular brands, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think this is a "beggars can't be choosers" situation.
The "old" big sponsors were what? Paul Mitchell, Chevy Trucks, Ralph Lauren (RLX), Swatch? I'm sure there are others, those just come to mind. I feel like those brands – big as they are – are a far cry from Walmart or multinational media conglomerates like Warner Bros. Discovery. When you're dealing with companies and brands of that scale, people are more likely to have strong feelings.
LOL, MSA in October? At least all the clothing companies will be able to show off their fall/cold weather riding gear. Can you stud an Assiguy? I mean it COULD be a warn fall, but it could also be a rock filled bobsled track.
according to google, quebec city (close enough to MSA) averages for October
- 53 degrees high, 39 degrees low
- 4" of rain, .5" snow
- 11 hours of daylight
The last few years the weather has been cool but good. If the leaves are falling then, hopefully they will get out the leaf blowers or it will be scary.
I think it's illegal to use bald eagle units for a Metric country bro!
interesting that some of the DH/Enduro are on the same weekend, Masters brothers, Antoine Vidal etc will have to make up their mind as to which one to race. Knowing Wyn, he will somehow do both the mad unit!
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
Do you remember when there were events in RSA / AUS / NZL ? Pepperidge farm remembers
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
XCO race in Brazil this year. So there's that.
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA for Pietermaritzburg, or Oz for Cairns. Some Aussies on here were even talking about the lack of a proper WC level track in the country and the difficulty of getting around there, even if you're Australian. But surely India, China, Japan, Argentina, or Chile have places that are candidates. And probably some other countries that have lifts or shuttle access. Losinj was a helluva race in an unexpected location, surely there are dozens of others that could pull it off with the right support. Don't have to have huge mountains to have world class trails.
That stated, do we know it's actually the UCI that makes this the north American/Europe cup, or are a lot of the team managers not on board with expansion? I remember Kathy Sessler said on her Inside Line interview how challenging it was for teams to go to new places, with learning the location and resources. And the cost to get all the people and equipment around the world all season - is that even in everyone's budget? How many teams/riders would be able to swing the budget to transport everything to Japan? I'd have to figure that getting a team like Pivot or Atherton to Japan would be over $30-40k, and imagine if Pivot "needs" to bring their box truck/van. For how many support people they have at Specialized and Trek, that number would easily be double that. Do Shimano/Fox/SRAM have the support network, equipment, and trucks there to cover all their athletes? Be interesting to hear from someone like Ben Cathro, Neko, or Bernard Kerr on this one.
It's not just the UCI or even ESO/Discovery who makes these location choices.
You also will need to have race organizers willing to shell out the money, time, and resources to organize a World Cup event and a national federation willing to lobby heavily for the event to happen. Local government support (all the way up to the state/province level) will be crucial too.
I think it's illegal to use bald eagle units for a Metric country bro!
interesting that some of the DH/Enduro are on the same weekend, Masters...
I think it's illegal to use bald eagle units for a Metric country bro!
interesting that some of the DH/Enduro are on the same weekend, Masters brothers, Antoine Vidal etc will have to make up their mind as to which one to race. Knowing Wyn, he will somehow do both the mad unit!
Pounds and feet are ok, inches, miles and temperature are just confusing
i think there's already a separate thread regarding the changes of DH next year.
would be nice if the discussions on the 2023 schedule would happen there and people would stick to TEAM RUMORS here! THX
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
Do you remember when there were events in RSA / AUS / NZL ? Pepperidge farm remembers
How many DH WC events were there in AUS and NZL that were not world champs? Genuine question, I'm drawing a bit of a blank, but I do remember world champs in Rotorua, Canberra and Cairns.
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
XCO race in Brazil this year. So there's that.
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA...
XCO race in Brazil this year. So there's that.
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA for Pietermaritzburg, or Oz for Cairns. Some Aussies on here were even talking about the lack of a proper WC level track in the country and the difficulty of getting around there, even if you're Australian. But surely India, China, Japan, Argentina, or Chile have places that are candidates. And probably some other countries that have lifts or shuttle access. Losinj was a helluva race in an unexpected location, surely there are dozens of others that could pull it off with the right support. Don't have to have huge mountains to have world class trails.
That stated, do we know it's actually the UCI that makes this the north American/Europe cup, or are a lot of the team managers not on board with expansion? I remember Kathy Sessler said on her Inside Line interview how challenging it was for teams to go to new places, with learning the location and resources. And the cost to get all the people and equipment around the world all season - is that even in everyone's budget? How many teams/riders would be able to swing the budget to transport everything to Japan? I'd have to figure that getting a team like Pivot or Atherton to Japan would be over $30-40k, and imagine if Pivot "needs" to bring their box truck/van. For how many support people they have at Specialized and Trek, that number would easily be double that. Do Shimano/Fox/SRAM have the support network, equipment, and trucks there to cover all their athletes? Be interesting to hear from someone like Ben Cathro, Neko, or Bernard Kerr on this one.
Lošinj was LIT (as a spectator event).
On topic, FWIW, F1 does trucks in Europe and I think they have a deal with DHL to ship containers of stuff to overseas locations. Sometimes it's a bit of a juggling act to ship some stuff in advance to a track, for example if they have an asian event followed by an american (north or south, doesn't matter) event as it takes two sets of shipments for most of the gear and spares (I think cars are flown around as they are the darlings of the equipment).
Maybe UCI making a shipping deal with the teams could help things out? Charter some flights and the like between locations? Renting cars, vans, trucks at location should also be cheaper when done en masse, same goes for hotels and the like.
I find it funny that people are hating on Walmart for investing in MTB. I thought we all wanted the return of big corporate sponsors for...
I find it funny that people are hating on Walmart for investing in MTB. I thought we all wanted the return of big corporate sponsors for race teams etc? Seems like a good thing to me. Maybe a bit cheesy to proclaim Bentonville the world capital of MTB but otherwise pretty cool.
It would be great to see more non-endemic sponsors step into the promotion of our sport, but you can simultaneously express skepticism about their motives or...
It would be great to see more non-endemic sponsors step into the promotion of our sport, but you can simultaneously express skepticism about their motives or about particular brands, these things aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think this is a "beggars can't be choosers" situation.
The "old" big sponsors were what? Paul Mitchell, Chevy Trucks, Ralph Lauren (RLX), Swatch? I'm sure there are others, those just come to mind. I feel like those brands – big as they are – are a far cry from Walmart or multinational media conglomerates like Warner Bros. Discovery. When you're dealing with companies and brands of that scale, people are more likely to have strong feelings.
Few points to consider here.
First, the bike community seems to really want an F1 style world cup circuit. Something that spans the globe, features more races than we currently have, is covered extensively and is fun to watch. You know what that takes? Money. A lot of money.
Second, there seems to be perpetual bitching and moaning about the poor pay, lack of healthcare, etc for all racers at the highest level (well, almost all racers). This is especially true on the women's side. You know what this takes to fix? Yup. Money.
Go to any big race, look around. Corporate sponsorships of the highest level are *everywhere*. Hell, go to any sporting event period and look around. What do you notice?
So what do we want, bike community? (not that our complaining matters) Hypothetically, as two guys arguing at a bar in some random watering hole somewhere in the world might discuss, what makes the most sense? Why not ask the guys and gals taking all the risk? Pretty sure they'd be pretty damn excited for some real paydays (which are well deserved). Thinking back to my days as a delusional racer (still delusional, just not as much of a racer), I would have happily taken just about any sponsorship that would let me live the dream, chase all the races and not have to go to the salt mines Monday through Friday. Literally, this side of a terrorist organization, the russian mob or money coming from a sanctioned country, I would have ridden for *anyone*. LOL.
I side with David. Money coming into the sport would change things, the sponsors may want a thing or three, but who cares. The riders still can walk. You and me don't have to watch. But if Red Bull's influence is any guide, **money helps the sport become more fun to be a fan of**.
Lots of what is posted around here stinks of "big company bad mmmkay" as is reflected by others comments suggesting the waltons should go unfuck the economy. Really? You actually think that's how this all works?
The exception to this whole rant is who owns the media rights (especially with something in flux like this). I do agree if the wrong team is involved they could completely ruin the way racing is broadcast to the public. However, it could go the opposite way, too (though redbull has set the bar incredibly high)
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
How many DH WC events were there in AUS and NZL that were not world champs? Genuine question, I'm drawing a bit of a blank, but...
How many DH WC events were there in AUS and NZL that were not world champs? Genuine question, I'm drawing a bit of a blank, but I do remember world champs in Rotorua, Canberra and Cairns.
Not sure about the others but Canberra certainly held a World Cup the year before it held World Champs. Nothing since though and it hasn't met the WC standard for a long time.
Not sure about the others but Canberra certainly held a World Cup the year before it held World Champs. Nothing since though and it hasn't met...
Not sure about the others but Canberra certainly held a World Cup the year before it held World Champs. Nothing since though and it hasn't met the WC standard for a long time.
Is it that they don't meet WC standards or that they got a bad ROI on hosting the races? It takes a lot of money to get a WC event... How much do they make? Is there a profit? Break even? Who's shelling out the money?
There's usually a reason races when the races stop going to a venue.. Sometimes it's the venue realized that it wasn't worth it..
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/08/12/12849/s1200_UCI_world.jpg[/img]
I've made this handy info graphic to explain the UCI in a nutshell, thanks for attending my TED talk.
XCO race in Brazil this year. So there's that.
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA...
XCO race in Brazil this year. So there's that.
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA for Pietermaritzburg, or Oz for Cairns. Some Aussies on here were even talking about the lack of a proper WC level track in the country and the difficulty of getting around there, even if you're Australian. But surely India, China, Japan, Argentina, or Chile have places that are candidates. And probably some other countries that have lifts or shuttle access. Losinj was a helluva race in an unexpected location, surely there are dozens of others that could pull it off with the right support. Don't have to have huge mountains to have world class trails.
That stated, do we know it's actually the UCI that makes this the north American/Europe cup, or are a lot of the team managers not on board with expansion? I remember Kathy Sessler said on her Inside Line interview how challenging it was for teams to go to new places, with learning the location and resources. And the cost to get all the people and equipment around the world all season - is that even in everyone's budget? How many teams/riders would be able to swing the budget to transport everything to Japan? I'd have to figure that getting a team like Pivot or Atherton to Japan would be over $30-40k, and imagine if Pivot "needs" to bring their box truck/van. For how many support people they have at Specialized and Trek, that number would easily be double that. Do Shimano/Fox/SRAM have the support network, equipment, and trucks there to cover all their athletes? Be interesting to hear from someone like Ben Cathro, Neko, or Bernard Kerr on this one.
Lošinj was LIT (as a spectator event).
On topic, FWIW, F1 does trucks in Europe and I think they have a deal with DHL to ship...
Lošinj was LIT (as a spectator event).
On topic, FWIW, F1 does trucks in Europe and I think they have a deal with DHL to ship containers of stuff to overseas locations. Sometimes it's a bit of a juggling act to ship some stuff in advance to a track, for example if they have an asian event followed by an american (north or south, doesn't matter) event as it takes two sets of shipments for most of the gear and spares (I think cars are flown around as they are the darlings of the equipment).
Maybe UCI making a shipping deal with the teams could help things out? Charter some flights and the like between locations? Renting cars, vans, trucks at location should also be cheaper when done en masse, same goes for hotels and the like.
Is it that they don't meet WC standards or that they got a bad ROI on hosting the races? It takes a lot of money to...
Is it that they don't meet WC standards or that they got a bad ROI on hosting the races? It takes a lot of money to get a WC event... How much do they make? Is there a profit? Break even? Who's shelling out the money?
There's usually a reason races when the races stop going to a venue.. Sometimes it's the venue realized that it wasn't worth it..
It was paid for by the local government, presumably out of the tourism and events budget. Following the bushfire in 2003 the facility was rebuilt with UCI events in mind and the 2008/9 events were the culmination of that. I'm not privy to the pre- and post-event economic modelling. You're probably right that if it was generating a significant benefit it might have continued, but I also don't know whether there were other factors. It's certainly nowhere near as long, steep or challenging as the venues on the current circuit, for instance.
As far as eligibility, MTBA advice is that the UCI requires a course to be at least 1500 metres long, but that requirement doesn't seem to appear in the UCI regs any more. However, the minimum duration of 2 minutes remains. The current Stromlo DH course is <1300 m long with <200 m drop so I think it would be borderline at best.
LOL, MSA in October? At least all the clothing companies will be able to show off their fall/cold weather riding gear. Can you stud an Assiguy...
LOL, MSA in October? At least all the clothing companies will be able to show off their fall/cold weather riding gear. Can you stud an Assiguy? I mean it COULD be a warn fall, but it could also be a rock filled bobsled track.
All of a sudden the test event in Europe in February (as shown in the redacted Discovery memo) now makes sense.
Stoked to see Snowshoe on the sched again since I can actually attend in person again. End of Sept has the potential to be cold, but should be real close to peak leaf-peeping time. MSA a week later, trees might be bare by then?
Stoked to see Snowshoe on the sched again since I can actually attend in person again. End of Sept has the potential to be cold, but...
Stoked to see Snowshoe on the sched again since I can actually attend in person again. End of Sept has the potential to be cold, but should be real close to peak leaf-peeping time. MSA a week later, trees might be bare by then?
the only thing is that until the status of the world cup is known, it's hard to imagine any teams making significant moves. it's also still pretty early in the season for actual rumors to hit.
the only thing is that until the status of the world cup is known, it's hard to imagine any teams making significant moves. it's also still...
the only thing is that until the status of the world cup is known, it's hard to imagine any teams making significant moves. it's also still pretty early in the season for actual rumors to hit.
With worlds and 1 more round, some stuff should start coming to light soon..
The "old" big sponsors were what? Paul Mitchell, Chevy Trucks, Ralph Lauren (RLX), Swatch? I'm sure there are others, those just come to mind. I feel like those brands – big as they are – are a far cry from Walmart or multinational media conglomerates like Warner Bros. Discovery. When you're dealing with companies and brands of that scale, people are more likely to have strong feelings.
- 53 degrees high, 39 degrees low
- 4" of rain, .5" snow
- 11 hours of daylight
don't envy junior and women practice.
interesting that some of the DH/Enduro are on the same weekend, Masters brothers, Antoine Vidal etc will have to make up their mind as to which one to race. Knowing Wyn, he will somehow do both the mad unit!
Southern Hemisphere down here ready to
Kick the season off at the end of our summer
Could be nice to speak about team rumours here …
I agree it'd be great to see a WORLD cup, though it's hardly worth going to RSA for Pietermaritzburg, or Oz for Cairns. Some Aussies on here were even talking about the lack of a proper WC level track in the country and the difficulty of getting around there, even if you're Australian. But surely India, China, Japan, Argentina, or Chile have places that are candidates. And probably some other countries that have lifts or shuttle access. Losinj was a helluva race in an unexpected location, surely there are dozens of others that could pull it off with the right support. Don't have to have huge mountains to have world class trails.
That stated, do we know it's actually the UCI that makes this the north American/Europe cup, or are a lot of the team managers not on board with expansion? I remember Kathy Sessler said on her Inside Line interview how challenging it was for teams to go to new places, with learning the location and resources. And the cost to get all the people and equipment around the world all season - is that even in everyone's budget? How many teams/riders would be able to swing the budget to transport everything to Japan? I'd have to figure that getting a team like Pivot or Atherton to Japan would be over $30-40k, and imagine if Pivot "needs" to bring their box truck/van. For how many support people they have at Specialized and Trek, that number would easily be double that. Do Shimano/Fox/SRAM have the support network, equipment, and trucks there to cover all their athletes? Be interesting to hear from someone like Ben Cathro, Neko, or Bernard Kerr on this one.
You also will need to have race organizers willing to shell out the money, time, and resources to organize a World Cup event and a national federation willing to lobby heavily for the event to happen. Local government support (all the way up to the state/province level) will be crucial too.
would be nice if the discussions on the 2023 schedule would happen there and people would stick to TEAM RUMORS here! THX
On topic, FWIW, F1 does trucks in Europe and I think they have a deal with DHL to ship containers of stuff to overseas locations. Sometimes it's a bit of a juggling act to ship some stuff in advance to a track, for example if they have an asian event followed by an american (north or south, doesn't matter) event as it takes two sets of shipments for most of the gear and spares (I think cars are flown around as they are the darlings of the equipment).
Maybe UCI making a shipping deal with the teams could help things out? Charter some flights and the like between locations? Renting cars, vans, trucks at location should also be cheaper when done en masse, same goes for hotels and the like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6Loko0BOA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM
All of this of course if there was a genuine wish to make it a global series...
First, the bike community seems to really want an F1 style world cup circuit. Something that spans the globe, features more races than we currently have, is covered extensively and is fun to watch. You know what that takes? Money. A lot of money.
Second, there seems to be perpetual bitching and moaning about the poor pay, lack of healthcare, etc for all racers at the highest level (well, almost all racers). This is especially true on the women's side. You know what this takes to fix? Yup. Money.
Go to any big race, look around. Corporate sponsorships of the highest level are *everywhere*. Hell, go to any sporting event period and look around. What do you notice?
So what do we want, bike community? (not that our complaining matters) Hypothetically, as two guys arguing at a bar in some random watering hole somewhere in the world might discuss, what makes the most sense? Why not ask the guys and gals taking all the risk? Pretty sure they'd be pretty damn excited for some real paydays (which are well deserved). Thinking back to my days as a delusional racer (still delusional, just not as much of a racer), I would have happily taken just about any sponsorship that would let me live the dream, chase all the races and not have to go to the salt mines Monday through Friday. Literally, this side of a terrorist organization, the russian mob or money coming from a sanctioned country, I would have ridden for *anyone*. LOL.
I side with David. Money coming into the sport would change things, the sponsors may want a thing or three, but who cares. The riders still can walk. You and me don't have to watch. But if Red Bull's influence is any guide, **money helps the sport become more fun to be a fan of**.
Lots of what is posted around here stinks of "big company bad mmmkay" as is reflected by others comments suggesting the waltons should go unfuck the economy. Really? You actually think that's how this all works?
The exception to this whole rant is who owns the media rights (especially with something in flux like this). I do agree if the wrong team is involved they could completely ruin the way racing is broadcast to the public. However, it could go the opposite way, too (though redbull has set the bar incredibly high)
Time will tell...
There's usually a reason races when the races stop going to a venue.. Sometimes it's the venue realized that it wasn't worth it..
As far as eligibility, MTBA advice is that the UCI requires a course to be at least 1500 metres long, but that requirement doesn't seem to appear in the UCI regs any more. However, the minimum duration of 2 minutes remains. The current Stromlo DH course is <1300 m long with <200 m drop so I think it would be borderline at best.
Anyway back to the team rumours...
Post a reply to: 2023 TEAM RUMORS