MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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TimBud
Posts
372
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Location
GB
Fantasy
875th
6/14/2023 12:11pm
Primoz wrote:
About damn time considering they shift the gearboxes under full load on their end of line checks using powerful motors. Plus getting rid of the gripshift...

About damn time considering they shift the gearboxes under full load on their end of line checks using powerful motors. Plus getting rid of the gripshift is an added benefit Smile

What tha fuq Primoz... you like electronic shifting now Woohoo

Anything to get rid of gripshift eh 

2
Primoz
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3567
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SI
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783rd
6/14/2023 12:38pm Edited Date/Time 6/14/2023 12:42pm

@TimBud well played sir, well played.

For sure, gripshift < electronic < cable actuated trigger Tongue

In all seriousness, getting rid of the gripshift is a part of it. I guess gripshift could have been good back in the day, but with modern drivetrains and the way we ride bikes (index finger on the brake, thumb shifting the gear, holding the bars nicely and consistently) I feel the gripshift could be more of a hinderance than a benefit.

The main reason I was... looking forward to an electronic shifting system for the Pinion is the fact that the shifting mechanism is basically right there on the outside of the gearbox and fairly easy to get to. That and the above mentioned fact that they can shift it under full load. Based off a Pinkbike review (haven't ridden one myself...) apparently you load up the shifter going to an easier gear, then let up on the pedals for it to click over and actually shift. The pawl/clutches/whatever is engaging the gear wants to stay there, but nothing is preventing it from moving out of the way (unlike the ratchet in the freehub, where you normally have a wedge geometry preventing slippage)... Except enough force. I'm hoping they made the electronic version of the shifter strong enough to be able to shift under full power or close to it and thus improve the shifting performance compared to the cable actuated gripshift. That and improve ergonomics.

I have nothing against electronic shifting, if there's a benefit. There is a possibility of a benefit in this case.

2
bizutch
Posts
1105
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Fletcher, NC US
Fantasy
684th
6/14/2023 12:44pm
Primoz wrote:
@TimBud well played sir, well played. For sure, gripshift < electronic < cable actuated trigger :P In all seriousness, getting rid of the gripshift is a...

@TimBud well played sir, well played.

For sure, gripshift < electronic < cable actuated trigger Tongue

In all seriousness, getting rid of the gripshift is a part of it. I guess gripshift could have been good back in the day, but with modern drivetrains and the way we ride bikes (index finger on the brake, thumb shifting the gear, holding the bars nicely and consistently) I feel the gripshift could be more of a hinderance than a benefit.

The main reason I was... looking forward to an electronic shifting system for the Pinion is the fact that the shifting mechanism is basically right there on the outside of the gearbox and fairly easy to get to. That and the above mentioned fact that they can shift it under full load. Based off a Pinkbike review (haven't ridden one myself...) apparently you load up the shifter going to an easier gear, then let up on the pedals for it to click over and actually shift. The pawl/clutches/whatever is engaging the gear wants to stay there, but nothing is preventing it from moving out of the way (unlike the ratchet in the freehub, where you normally have a wedge geometry preventing slippage)... Except enough force. I'm hoping they made the electronic version of the shifter strong enough to be able to shift under full power or close to it and thus improve the shifting performance compared to the cable actuated gripshift. That and improve ergonomics.

I have nothing against electronic shifting, if there's a benefit. There is a possibility of a benefit in this case.

Rode a buddy's gearbox bike and it was an absolute nightmare to try to nail shifts to easier gears before sudden steep pitches...say going around a turn to transition onto a new trail or up out of a gully.  

I'd be standing up on the pedals trying to keep it upright barely moving and begging the shifter to let me go to an easier gear.  

It was on a Zerode.  

I now await 5 pages of education on how simple it is and all the various techniques of why I should get my act together.

6
1
Onawalk
Posts
296
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
6/14/2023 6:17pm
Dave_Camp wrote:

Someone should make a general tire thread with a shared google doc spreadsheet of price/weight/conditions/grip (x/10) etc. 

 

Be the change you want to see in the world,  or something

4
mtbboy1993
Posts
19
Joined
4/19/2015
Location
Askim NO
6/14/2023 11:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 7:23am
Kusa wrote:
New?! Michelin Wild Enduro tires? Can't see them mentioned anywhere online. Seems like there is additional model name MS, MH (but I'm not so familiar with...

New?! Michelin Wild Enduro tires? Can't see them mentioned anywhere online. Seems like there is additional model name MS, MH (but I'm not so familiar with Michelin).

p6pb24884286

 Source https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-check-barca-prudkovas-unno-burn-endu…

I guess it might mean Medium Soft, Medium Hard.

You are right, these are not in their line up yet.

1
RonJon
Posts
7
Joined
12/22/2022
Location
Wallingford GB
6/15/2023 2:29am Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 2:39am

Spotted in Vital's Pit Bits. Looks like the Pivot uses an eccentric mounting between the seatstay and rocker? Guess it's just a way of fine tuning BB height, head angle etc.

image-20230615102840-1

13
sethimus
Posts
255
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9/20/2014
Location
CH
Fantasy
2434th
6/15/2023 4:28am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I agree that the Pirelli DH tires appear to be at least rideable. The Canyon/Pirelli team has some serious young racers like Dante Silva, Antoine Pierron...

I agree that the Pirelli DH tires appear to be at least rideable. The Canyon/Pirelli team has some serious young racers like Dante Silva, Antoine Pierron, and Loris Revelli who are consistently getting top 30 results on the Pirellis.

Regarding what's inside the racers tires- who knows? I wonder the same thing about the new Conti's, because in my mind there's no way a 1200 gram 29" DH tire is winning Snowshoe or Hardline or Lenzerheide or even getting to the bottom of the track with air in it. Meanwhile Minnaar got two flats this weekend running 1400 gram Maxxis tires, or even heavier if he's running the prototype "Breaker" pinch flat barrier in them. With Michelin and Schwalbe getting good results by moving up to 1500 gram DH casings, and with 1300-1400 DD and DH casing Maxxis tires serving as the norm on the EWS, I think the stock 1200 gram Conti tires are pretty unbelievable as World Cup DH tires. But who knows.

my kryto fr dh was around 1350g

1
matmattmatthew
Posts
298
Joined
6/14/2014
Location
Fresh Prince of Bel Air, MD US
6/15/2023 7:15am Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 7:19am
sspomer wrote:
pit bits vid from leogang    

pit bits vid from leogang

 

 

Just noticed that on Loris's bike, he's running the new Sram brakes with a 180mm rear rotor (Does he always run a 180 rear?).  Or do we think that's a track specific change or possibly the new brakes so powerful that he can drop down in rotor size?  

I remember when the original XT 4 pistons came out, they were so much more powerful than riders were used to that mechanics would sometimes put different substances on the rotors in an effort to make them have less "bite."

1
hardbash
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45
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DE
Fantasy
3753rd
6/15/2023 8:17am

Interesting how many new tires are popping up right now and in the last year or so. Now the Schwalbe Tacky Chan and a new Michelin DH 16 as well:

… das DH 16-Modell ist doch seit 10 Jahren ausgestorben?

NicoZesty96
Posts
381
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Location
portogruaro, VE IT
6/15/2023 8:17am

Schermata 2023-06-15 alle 17.14.56.png?VersionId=ZHWX.1egdcvySXcVq7a

 i guess we're expecting a couple tyres from Schwalbe, the Hunting Holly and the Tacky Chan, about the first one the Schwalbe guys at the Bike Festival told me already 2 months ago "wait a couple weeks"

2
Mbarosko
Posts
15
Joined
7/21/2011
Location
Mesa, AZ US
6/15/2023 8:20am
RonJon wrote:
Spotted in Vital's Pit Bits. Looks like the Pivot uses an eccentric mounting between the seatstay and rocker? Guess it's just a way of fine tuning...

Spotted in Vital's Pit Bits. Looks like the Pivot uses an eccentric mounting between the seatstay and rocker? Guess it's just a way of fine tuning BB height, head angle etc.

image-20230615102840-1

Same system that is run on their other bikes like the Switchblade and Firebird. Allows for adjustment of head angle/bb height

 

flippy.png?VersionId=7n7upa J1eofjOHTsrJf 

 

5
bizutch
Posts
1105
Joined
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Location
Fletcher, NC US
Fantasy
684th
6/15/2023 9:51am
hardbash wrote:
Interesting how many new tires are popping up right now and in the last year or so. Now the Schwalbe Tacky Chan and a new Michelin...

Interesting how many new tires are popping up right now and in the last year or so. Now the Schwalbe Tacky Chan and a new Michelin DH 16 as well:

… das DH 16-Modell ist doch seit 10 Jahren ausgestorben?

BY "new DH16" you may just see the exact same tire from 15 years ago...but with updated casing.  That tire worked back when courses were getting cut for races.  Pretty useless side knob profile for the modern race tracks.

1
pablo_b
Posts
32
Joined
11/6/2018
Location
CH
6/15/2023 2:03pm
hardbash wrote:
Interesting how many new tires are popping up right now and in the last year or so. Now the Schwalbe Tacky Chan and a new Michelin...

Interesting how many new tires are popping up right now and in the last year or so. Now the Schwalbe Tacky Chan and a new Michelin DH 16 as well:

… das DH 16-Modell ist doch seit 10 Jahren ausgestorben?

bizutch wrote:
BY "new DH16" you may just see the exact same tire from 15 years ago...but with updated casing.  That tire worked back when courses were getting...

BY "new DH16" you may just see the exact same tire from 15 years ago...but with updated casing.  That tire worked back when courses were getting cut for races.  Pretty useless side knob profile for the modern race tracks.

I do not think that they would reintroduce high roller/old dh16 type patterns again. It looks kinda shit.
Marin Team DH 1998 | Bike Check - Factory Jackson Factory Jackson

2
FullSend
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329
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DE
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1197th
6/15/2023 2:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/15/2023 2:51pm
sspomer wrote:
pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill  

pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back Tongue

https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill

pitbits1a 0.jpg?VersionId=efVtAKBX9S2KCGoO1I9

 

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

11
Dirtyburger
Posts
37
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Location
AQ
Fantasy
2417th
6/15/2023 3:13pm
sspomer wrote:
pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill  

pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back Tongue

https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill

pitbits1a 0.jpg?VersionId=efVtAKBX9S2KCGoO1I9

 

FullSend wrote:
I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet. Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of...

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

I’m glad you did a literature review to convince yourself, I wish more people did that kinda thing.

For me, none of those devices pass the sniff test. Red flag words for these scams include: Quantum, magnets, crystals, energy, etc.
 

If you think the stickers will make you faster, then you gotta check out the ENERGY POLARISER! Quite the bit of classic Australiana.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/02/how-a-box-of-magic-crystals-brought-…

4
Onawalk
Posts
296
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
6/15/2023 6:18pm
sspomer wrote:
pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill  

pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back Tongue

https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill

pitbits1a 0.jpg?VersionId=efVtAKBX9S2KCGoO1I9

 

FullSend wrote:
I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet. Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of...

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

You’re insinuating that WC level racers are somehow smarter than the average person, not sure that’s the case.

most high level racers I know, know less about their bikes than the average person on the trail, they’re just fast af, not smart af.  There are exceptions obviously, Melamed seems like he’s really into it, and his degree in engineering backs that up a bit.

1
3
6/15/2023 6:39pm
sspomer wrote:
pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill  

pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back Tongue

https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill

pitbits1a 0.jpg?VersionId=efVtAKBX9S2KCGoO1I9

 

FullSend wrote:
I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet. Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of...

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

Onawalk wrote:
You’re insinuating that WC level racers are somehow smarter than the average person, not sure that’s the case. most high level racers I know, know less...

You’re insinuating that WC level racers are somehow smarter than the average person, not sure that’s the case.

most high level racers I know, know less about their bikes than the average person on the trail, they’re just fast af, not smart af.  There are exceptions obviously, Melamed seems like he’s really into it, and his degree in engineering backs that up a bit.

1
boozed
Posts
305
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
6/15/2023 7:17pm
sspomer wrote:
pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill  

pit bits 1 gallery up. sorcery chips are back Tongue

https://www.vitalmtb.com/pit-bits-1-2023-leogang-world-cup-downhill

pitbits1a 0.jpg?VersionId=efVtAKBX9S2KCGoO1I9

 

FullSend wrote:
I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet. Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of...

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

Onawalk wrote:
You’re insinuating that WC level racers are somehow smarter than the average person, not sure that’s the case. most high level racers I know, know less...

You’re insinuating that WC level racers are somehow smarter than the average person, not sure that’s the case.

most high level racers I know, know less about their bikes than the average person on the trail, they’re just fast af, not smart af.  There are exceptions obviously, Melamed seems like he’s really into it, and his degree in engineering backs that up a bit.

The average person has probably taken fewer blows to the head...

I think it was Pierron rather than Bruni who had one of these sham products on his bike.

4
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
6/15/2023 7:38pm
boozed wrote:
The average person has probably taken fewer blows to the head... I think it was Pierron rather than Bruni who had one of these sham products...

The average person has probably taken fewer blows to the head...

I think it was Pierron rather than Bruni who had one of these sham products on his bike.

Pretty sure Blenki also ran the "vibration damping" stickers for a while...

Dave113
Posts
42
Joined
3/7/2018
Location
Lafayette, CO US
6/15/2023 8:02pm

Pay me enough money and I'll put them on my bike too. Cool

12
JerseyMojo
Posts
152
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8/23/2018
Location
JE
Fantasy
861st
6/16/2023 12:14am

Could it be purely psychological advantage? Ie everyone is looking for ways to lose a second or less, is Loic is quicker and he turns up at a race with one, could he simply be trying to psych out the competition? We all know that mental headspace will make or break a run. 🤷🏻‍♂️

2
sethimus
Posts
255
Joined
9/20/2014
Location
CH
Fantasy
2434th
6/16/2023 12:53am

new bosch performance sx motor, 2kg, max 55nm incoming

5
kcy4130
Posts
319
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
MT US
6/16/2023 4:36am
FullSend wrote:
I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet. Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of...

I can't believe this trend hasn't died out yet.

Some years ago during the first big covid lockdown here in Germany, I've put a bit of research into this and looked up all the various manufacturers claims and explanation as to why these should apparently make you faster. I did not find a single one of them convincing.

But back then I took it a little further and went through the the digital library of my University, which includes access to hundreds of scientific archives and databases, to look up the supposed "science" behind these products. In short, there seems to be basically no empirical research done to any sort of academic standard that documents any of the described effects outside the margin of error.

That being said, you'd be surprised how many people believe in these ridiculous claims. There's quite a few high-profile racers running these "magic pads", including Matthias Flückiger and I'm pretty sure I remember Loic Bruni having something like this on his bike at some point.

Placebo effect is a hell of a drug! There's an abundance of academic papers proving that. 

11
mfoga
Posts
521
Joined
9/21/2015
Location
Moreno Valley, CA US
Fantasy
168th
6/16/2023 5:47am
JerseyMojo wrote:
Could it be purely psychological advantage? Ie everyone is looking for ways to lose a second or less, is Loic is quicker and he turns up...

Could it be purely psychological advantage? Ie everyone is looking for ways to lose a second or less, is Loic is quicker and he turns up at a race with one, could he simply be trying to psych out the competition? We all know that mental headspace will make or break a run. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Exactly if it does absolutely nothing but the rider thinks it does it's worth it.   They asked Jordy a similar question about saying they made a change but didn't actually change anything.  He said won't do it and fully respect the reason he gave but damn I bet there are time it would a useful tool.  The mind is powerful and can be more powerful than something scientific.  I know one weird one for me for a long time was I was faster and more comfortable riding with 3/4 or long sleeves than short sleeves.  Having something on my elbow made me feel like they were protected.  I know 100% they were not protected by a thin piece of fabric but in my mind while riding I felt protected and could push more. 

7

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