One can hope
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2022/04/11/12372/s1200_Screenshot_20220412_035638_Instagram.jpg[/img]
One can hope
just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner of first gen orange destroyer
just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner...
just stretch a little bit longer the darkside.. dont need to tweak it too much ... please... and in orange.. fluo orange ; ) Proud owner of first gen orange destroyer
Agreed on the stretching - bring the sizing to 2022 levels. Also can modify the suspension to a highish-pivot design. All else is perfect!
I would love an EXT shock on my bike but what is an expensive boutique air shock going to "disrupt"?
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the same space – so I can't see there being much pressure for them to follow. Or even if they do, it isn't "disruption" if they're still #1 and #2 at the end of the day.
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the...
That'll happen if it makes sense to do so commercially. EXT is not going to eat Fox and Rockshox's lunch – they aren't competing in the same space – so I can't see there being much pressure for them to follow. Or even if they do, it isn't "disruption" if they're still #1 and #2 at the end of the day.
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.
Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
Received an email from Vitus overnight about its 2022 releases. The Escarpe, which is only just over a year old, will receive a "frame update" ([i]not[/i]...
Received an email from Vitus overnight about its 2022 releases. The Escarpe, which is only just over a year old, will receive a "frame update" (not a new frame) in April. Presumably they'll also take the opportunity to beef up the spec.
So this one slipped under the radar a little bit. The Escarpe's spec went unchanged, prices went up and some of the new colours are quite nice but the frame update turned out to be a carbon rear triangle.
And by now everyone's probably already seen the prototype Mythique replacement that was at Sea Otter.
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this...
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.
Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was bad, but people couldn't set it up, causing people having bad experiences with a good product. It is better to provide a product that 95% of the users can set up easily, than one that <10% of the users may understand.
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
Chickadeehill would like a word with you about that 3 chamber statement.
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as...
Because it will be one of the first 3 chamber air shocks (Negative, and 2 positive). Gives a much more linear progression through the travel as the third air chamber replaces the tokens. EXT, Ohlins and Manitou already use a 3 chamber system in their forks, but it's a bit harder to package in a shock. I expect in 5 years time we will have done away with volume reducing tokens and move to the 3 chamber system for all air suspension.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
I also found about 4-5 years ago some company tried to make accessory triple chamber aircan for CCDB shocks. Do you remember who it was? I can't find it now.
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this...
I agree, while this might be a performance top end feature that might cause the big two to up their game at the sharp end, this isn’t technology that should trickle down imo.
Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was...
This is important. The big two create products for the masses. I guess there is a reason Rockshox stopped providing Dual Air. Not because it was bad, but people couldn't set it up, causing people having bad experiences with a good product. It is better to provide a product that 95% of the users can set up easily, than one that <10% of the users may understand.
i remember when CC initially released the Helm, they stated in an interview that they experimented with a dual positive air setup and they came to essentially the same conclusion
EXT Shock.
1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there.
2: Triple...
EXT Shock.
1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there.
2: Triple chamber air shock to feel more linear. Have you considered a coil...
1. I guess you work for free, then. Since you do not feel people deserve getting paid for their job.
2. You cannot tune the end stroke on a coil as with a triple chamber air.
Over a week after April fools, and Sram is at it again. Looks like they will have a new E-bike specific brake using MINERAL OIL! The DB8 uses green maxima mineral oil according to Sram’s YouTube channel.
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?
Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.
MSRP
$137
MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1
FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
landing page is active too:
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance...
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.
MSRP
$137
MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1
FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
The MSRP is 148 € over here in EUrope, Code R is 190, Code RSC is 301. Street price for a pair of RSCs is 300 € currently, so 75/150 € for a single/pair of DB8?
landing page is active too:
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance...
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.
MSRP
$137
MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1
FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
Oooooooh, aimed at the OE market. That would explain some logic behind the mineral oil. I think I've heard mineral oil is prefered by the assemblers because it's less messy.
Personally I hope Sram doesn't move away from DOT brakes. With all the 'benefits' mineral oil gives it's a real shitstorm as every manufacturer uses their own special formulation, that is not compatible with the other manufacturers, there have been cases of seal damage by mixing manufacturers apparently, etc. DOT is simple, there's a standard, you can mix them to your heart's content, even 5.1 with 4 and 3, you can get them in any automotive shop, etc.
I honestly don't see the rage for mineral oil, if it was THAT superior, automotive would have used it ages ago. But even Citroen, the sole mineral oil brake fluid user, moved away from it on the C5 with hydropneumatic suspension (previous models used LHM because the suspension and brake circuits were interconnected). Sure, bikes != automotive, but I guess bikes could take quite a few good practices from the automotive world
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for...
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?
Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?
I get a minimum of 2 emails per response posted here...
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for...
I'm sure this shouldn't be published yet. The new Zeb is also present in the video.
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?
Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?
I get a minimum of 2 emails per response posted here...
Apparently most people haven't noticed that after you click "Submit", it takes the gerbils powering the VitalMTB forums a minimum of 2 minutes to fulfill their request, and keep clicking "Submit" a dozen or so times.
The automotive industry has stuck with DOT because by some impossible miracle they've actually managed create a standard.
The bike industry is just not mature enough to stick with anything that even remotely resembles a standard so while mineral oils have their benefits (don't absorb water as soon as they're opened; can last for years in a system with little maintenance...)
For me the biggest problem with mineral oils is always with the end user. We all try to to mix and match (for many reasons - availability, stubbornness, cost, "any mineral oil will work", etc.) our fluids and when it goes wrong we always blame the manufacturer.
The automotive industry cannot afford the risk that every back street garage will just use whatever cheap mineral oil they can find when they're working on vehicles. Plus a tiny percentage of users actually maintain their own vehicles, whereas everyone thinks they can maintain a bike.
No one has died because of Shimano's "wandering bite point", which from my experience is almost always down to the wrong fluid (even from factory) but if there was a similar situation with cars there would be a lot of deaths.
I'd love to give it a try, would be good to see a beefier fork from EXT too
Most people don’t even know how to set up a single chamber shock, let alone optimize a triple chamber one 😂
And by now everyone's probably already seen the prototype Mythique replacement that was at Sea Otter.
https://fotos.mtb-news.de/p/681299
https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/attachments/x-fusion-schnitt-jpg.112248/
I also found about 4-5 years ago some company tried to make accessory triple chamber aircan for CCDB shocks. Do you remember who it was? I can't find it now.
1: What will it Disrupt? The wallets of people that pay to read the obscure and clickbait opinions Beta puts out there.
2: Triple chamber air shock to feel more linear. Have you considered a coil...
2. You cannot tune the end stroke on a coil as with a triple chamber air.
Sram Mineral Oil brake bleed
BTW, has anybody else been sent 8 e-mail notifications for Brevard's post?
Anywho, DB8... I wonder what the reason for not including Bleeding Edge port is... It's a really good way to mount the syringe in my experience. One way to make it better would be to add it on the lever
Looking at DB8 it appears to be a very cheaply designed product? No swing-link, no banjo on the caliper, very rough surface treatment, etc. Could the use of mineral oil be related to the price of the system if it will be a cheaper product?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZlJ7vBWc08
https://www.sram.com/en/sram/models/db-db8-a1
DESCRIPTION
DB8 is our simple, robust, and powerful brake for riders who prefer to set and forget. The low maintenance Mineral Oil system uses proven lever technologies and features easy adjustment access and superior ergonomic comfort. Code-like power is no surprise, as DB8 utilizes similar caliper architecture and existing brake pads.
MSRP
$137
MODEL ID
DB-DB8-A1
FEATURES
New lever optimized for tool access.
Code-like power.
Uses existing Code pads.
Designed for use with Maxima Mineral Oil only.
Designed for use with SRAM Mineral Oil Bleed Kit only.
The MSRP is 148 € over here in EUrope, Code R is 190, Code RSC is 301. Street price for a pair of RSCs is 300 € currently, so 75/150 € for a single/pair of DB8?
Personally I hope Sram doesn't move away from DOT brakes. With all the 'benefits' mineral oil gives it's a real shitstorm as every manufacturer uses their own special formulation, that is not compatible with the other manufacturers, there have been cases of seal damage by mixing manufacturers apparently, etc. DOT is simple, there's a standard, you can mix them to your heart's content, even 5.1 with 4 and 3, you can get them in any automotive shop, etc.
I honestly don't see the rage for mineral oil, if it was THAT superior, automotive would have used it ages ago. But even Citroen, the sole mineral oil brake fluid user, moved away from it on the C5 with hydropneumatic suspension (previous models used LHM because the suspension and brake circuits were interconnected). Sure, bikes != automotive, but I guess bikes could take quite a few good practices from the automotive world
The bike industry is just not mature enough to stick with anything that even remotely resembles a standard so while mineral oils have their benefits (don't absorb water as soon as they're opened; can last for years in a system with little maintenance...)
For me the biggest problem with mineral oils is always with the end user. We all try to to mix and match (for many reasons - availability, stubbornness, cost, "any mineral oil will work", etc.) our fluids and when it goes wrong we always blame the manufacturer.
The automotive industry cannot afford the risk that every back street garage will just use whatever cheap mineral oil they can find when they're working on vehicles. Plus a tiny percentage of users actually maintain their own vehicles, whereas everyone thinks they can maintain a bike.
No one has died because of Shimano's "wandering bite point", which from my experience is almost always down to the wrong fluid (even from factory) but if there was a similar situation with cars there would be a lot of deaths.
(apologies for th incoherent ramble)
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