2018 Racing Rumors

5/26/2018 4:01pm
I think it looks fucking lame, but if your a 5'10" guy that whats to run a XL frame, then maby it would work for you.
grinch
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5/26/2018 6:17pm
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard and pole have gone off the deep end, unless you’re putting on a skin suit and ripping straight down a volcanoes for a speed record. Emphasis on straight. That has to suck in the turns
depeche4
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5/26/2018 7:02pm
jofish wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2018/05/26/6343/s1200_99451F2E_ABB2_4AFA_B66D_B9E6AC447B13.jpg[/img] New V10 front end with lower stand over? Might also explain why they were all on last years frames at Losinj.


New V10 front end with lower stand over? Might also explain why they were all on last years frames at Losinj.
Fred_Pop wrote:
I sure hope so! It will allow shorter people to size up in frame! Now they just have to add some rear tire clearance and come...
I sure hope so! It will allow shorter people to size up in frame! Now they just have to add some rear tire clearance and come out with an aluminium version and I might consider getting one Wink
Talked to the rep at the local demo the other day. He was pretty sure what you see next weekend is the production model of the V 10 29er.
depeche4
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5/26/2018 7:06pm
grinch wrote:
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard...
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard and pole have gone off the deep end, unless you’re putting on a skin suit and ripping straight down a volcanoes for a speed record. Emphasis on straight. That has to suck in the turns
People said the same about Mondraker and their forward geo stuff. I have had 3 of their bikes and they ride amazing.
I am waiting for my Pole fully buying into the longer front end. I do agree, they do not fit everyone, however you could say the same about brands like Trek and Specialized and their overly small frames.
peecee
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5/26/2018 7:10pm
We knew something new was coming rom Santa Cruz over the off season, as there were little hint here and there on instagram.
I was very surprised to see that the guys ran the old frames from last year to be honest or didn't have this new frame at the first World Cup of the season for some real world testing even if it was 1 or 2 practice runs.

Greg seems so particular when it comes to setup, but in the first syndicate video event Greg on last years frame with last years exact same shock he was still questioning things, maybe he doesn't know exactly what he's feeling down to a half a click there or half a turn there after all.

I took a few more frame grabs and lifted the shadows a little.






LLLLL
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5/27/2018 3:56am
jofish wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2018/05/26/6343/s1200_99451F2E_ABB2_4AFA_B66D_B9E6AC447B13.jpg[/img] New V10 front end with lower stand over? Might also explain why they were all on last years frames at Losinj.


New V10 front end with lower stand over? Might also explain why they were all on last years frames at Losinj.
Fred_Pop wrote:
I sure hope so! It will allow shorter people to size up in frame! Now they just have to add some rear tire clearance and come...
I sure hope so! It will allow shorter people to size up in frame! Now they just have to add some rear tire clearance and come out with an aluminium version and I might consider getting one Wink
depeche4 wrote:
Talked to the rep at the local demo the other day. He was pretty sure what you see next weekend is the production model of the...
Talked to the rep at the local demo the other day. He was pretty sure what you see next weekend is the production model of the V 10 29er.
Think they'll have the new Saint in it
Beez177
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5/27/2018 9:30am Edited Date/Time 5/27/2018 9:38am
grinch wrote:
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard...
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard and pole have gone off the deep end, unless you’re putting on a skin suit and ripping straight down a volcanoes for a speed record. Emphasis on straight. That has to suck in the turns
And you know this because you rode it, right?
Look at MX bikes bar/ stem position..
sspomer
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5/27/2018 11:03am
here's another shot of kiran's v10 from vital raw coming up shortly.

grinch
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5/27/2018 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2018 1:20pm
grinch wrote:
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard...
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard and pole have gone off the deep end, unless you’re putting on a skin suit and ripping straight down a volcanoes for a speed record. Emphasis on straight. That has to suck in the turns
Beez177 wrote:
And you know this because you rode it, right?
Look at MX bikes bar/ stem position..
I’m open to the longer front ends and short stems and the ultra steep seat angle and slack ha. I run a 28mm small stem on my dh bike and a 30mm on my trail bike and I’ve always upsized frames for a longer tt. I’m also really liking steep seat angles and still sliding my seat forward a touch more . I’d like to try a zero stem and I think ,if anything , pole should also use forks with less offset(that’s been working on motorbike choppers for years). I still think the tt and cs and wheelbase is to long on these and have little interest in trying them. It looks like an old rocky mt dh bike. Those were too long and sucked as well. The good and bad traits of long cs, tt and wb are well known. You can only counteract the bad traits soo much by shortening the stem and steepening the seat angle and the pole is maxed out trying to keep the front from pushing and the rear and wb agile in the turns. There’s no more help. Nice standover though so it has that going for it
grinch
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5/27/2018 4:48pm Edited Date/Time 5/27/2018 4:49pm
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited SO
depeche4
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5/27/2018 5:54pm
grinch wrote:
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited...
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited SO
I highly doubt there will be an alloy option. They have not had one for years.
5/27/2018 8:54pm
grinch wrote:
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited...
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited SO
What're you smoking? TT on my xl nomad comes just above my knees, that's pretty darn low.
grinch
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5/27/2018 11:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 12:29am
grinch wrote:
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited...
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited SO
What're you smoking? TT on my xl nomad comes just above my knees, that's pretty darn low.
I usually just look at the numbers rather than use your approximate knee height but thanks for the valuable info. Isn’t lowering the so height on this new v10 part of the design?
Medium nomad-440mm reach/728mm so
Small gg megatrail 440mm reach/686mm so
Med Commencal Supreme sx 442reach/710mm so
Med yt capra 440mm reach/690mm so
Hmmm. All look like just around your knee height give or take 4 or 5 inches, I’m guessing. They only listed imperial and metric though



Primoz
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5/28/2018 12:01pm
I'd say the most pressing missing piece in SC offering is the lack of decently angled seat tubes (not all this slack, offset malarkey they are doing now).

Also, SO measurements depend on the location (relative to the wheelbase) of measurement, so it's hard to compare between brands and/or models. Plus, knee heigh while riding or while standing beside the bike (given knee height i think i know which it is)? The riding one is also influenced by the BB height for example.
Fred_Pop
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5/28/2018 12:34pm
grinch wrote:
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard...
Too much! Actually 10 much. It’s nice to have some variance in frame dimensions , to fit different people,but I think a few have gone overboard and pole have gone off the deep end, unless you’re putting on a skin suit and ripping straight down a volcanoes for a speed record. Emphasis on straight. That has to suck in the turns
Beez177 wrote:
And you know this because you rode it, right?
Look at MX bikes bar/ stem position..
grinch wrote:
I’m open to the longer front ends and short stems and the ultra steep seat angle and slack ha. I run a 28mm small stem on...
I’m open to the longer front ends and short stems and the ultra steep seat angle and slack ha. I run a 28mm small stem on my dh bike and a 30mm on my trail bike and I’ve always upsized frames for a longer tt. I’m also really liking steep seat angles and still sliding my seat forward a touch more . I’d like to try a zero stem and I think ,if anything , pole should also use forks with less offset(that’s been working on motorbike choppers for years). I still think the tt and cs and wheelbase is to long on these and have little interest in trying them. It looks like an old rocky mt dh bike. Those were too long and sucked as well. The good and bad traits of long cs, tt and wb are well known. You can only counteract the bad traits soo much by shortening the stem and steepening the seat angle and the pole is maxed out trying to keep the front from pushing and the rear and wb agile in the turns. There’s no more help. Nice standover though so it has that going for it
As a owner of a Pole EVOLINK 176 with a 1340mm wheelbase, 63º headangle, 460mm chainstays and a reach of 520mm I can say hands down this is the best bike I have ever had! I'm 180cm (5'11"). My bike is an L. Sure an Pole in size XL (535mm) or a nicolai geometron in XXL (555mm reach) would probably be too much for me. That being said my bike works everywhere and not just in a straight line! I don't have any problems cornering or riding tight trails. On paper it seems like these bikes won't work but they actually work really well.
5/28/2018 1:30pm
grinch wrote:
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited...
Hopefully they lower the SO on the nomad too and an aluminum v10 option. Final piece to their puzzle after years of short tt’s and limited SO
What're you smoking? TT on my xl nomad comes just above my knees, that's pretty darn low.
XL thats the thing, if I was to place a guess I would say you were over 6 feet tall with legs as tall as telephone poles. But you are right, the nomad has a relatively low stand-over height. The other bikes like the Tallboy and the Hightower, do have higher SO measures because they have to fit a shock that sits higher in the frame.
Sesame Seed
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5/28/2018 1:59pm
Fred_Pop wrote:
As a owner of a Pole EVOLINK 176 with a 1340mm wheelbase, 63º headangle, 460mm chainstays and a reach of 520mm I can say hands down...
As a owner of a Pole EVOLINK 176 with a 1340mm wheelbase, 63º headangle, 460mm chainstays and a reach of 520mm I can say hands down this is the best bike I have ever had! I'm 180cm (5'11"). My bike is an L. Sure an Pole in size XL (535mm) or a nicolai geometron in XXL (555mm reach) would probably be too much for me. That being said my bike works everywhere and not just in a straight line! I don't have any problems cornering or riding tight trails. On paper it seems like these bikes won't work but they actually work really well.
Not diminishing your own gains in riding performance, but does the bike react the same as a BMX Bike at-speed on a track?

This overall wide-berth of frame design must be like that of long-skis vs shorter. Each have a tune to the terrain, the result comes from the person choosing to find the limits. I am not a Skier tho...

BMX Bikes have not changed much in 20years, and even still have not changed much in about 35. A little more squat is it, aside form designing compliance and aero-effect.

There are alot of Mountain Bike riders who are looking for a direct ride quality to that of a BMX Racer. These Pole / Nicolai / Mondraker builds appear to be oriented toward the exiting of tight trail segments - all rides being equal of course.

Is this perception of it being 'best bike' from personal failure-points on other bikes or, does this bike ride w/ your being along for the ride? Some riders apparently expect that sensation, but this is a passive experience to some.
oliosky
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5/28/2018 9:26pm
oliosky wrote:
Looks like Muddy is heading back over to Europe as a privateer again.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BjUFoh8DcVZ/?hl=en&taken-by=graemebobmudd

trex84 wrote:
I can't believe he didn't get another factory ride after trek!
Are you being facetious? TBH he has a better results history than alot of guys on factory rides :cough:wynmasters:cough:
Primoz
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5/28/2018 9:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/28/2018 9:58pm
Wyn is worth a lot in marketing terms.

EDIT: Oh, and regarding bike lengths, with my current bike i went to a 10 cm longer bike (~1120ish mm wheelbase of Meta 5.5 to ~1220 mm wheelbase of the Giant Reign). The only major difference, out of the gate, was that i had to be over the front more, but that's a lot more connected to the effect of a much shorter stem and a slacker headangle than the wheelbase itself. The longer wheelbase probably does show up in the tightest of corners, but is not a deal breaker. And as it stands, the next bike (finally being an XL as well) will most likely be another ~7 cm longer. Will report then.
5/28/2018 10:14pm
Primoz wrote:
I'd say the most pressing missing piece in SC offering is the lack of decently angled seat tubes (not all this slack, offset malarkey they are...
I'd say the most pressing missing piece in SC offering is the lack of decently angled seat tubes (not all this slack, offset malarkey they are doing now).

Also, SO measurements depend on the location (relative to the wheelbase) of measurement, so it's hard to compare between brands and/or models. Plus, knee heigh while riding or while standing beside the bike (given knee height i think i know which it is)? The riding one is also influenced by the BB height for example.
I wholeheartedly agree with your point on seat tube angle. Also, 3 inches above the knee standing next to the bike.
oliosky
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5/28/2018 11:11pm
Primoz wrote:
Wyn is worth a lot in marketing terms. EDIT: Oh, and regarding bike lengths, with my current bike i went to a 10 cm longer bike...
Wyn is worth a lot in marketing terms.

EDIT: Oh, and regarding bike lengths, with my current bike i went to a 10 cm longer bike (~1120ish mm wheelbase of Meta 5.5 to ~1220 mm wheelbase of the Giant Reign). The only major difference, out of the gate, was that i had to be over the front more, but that's a lot more connected to the effect of a much shorter stem and a slacker headangle than the wheelbase itself. The longer wheelbase probably does show up in the tightest of corners, but is not a deal breaker. And as it stands, the next bike (finally being an XL as well) will most likely be another ~7 cm longer. Will report then.
Wyn should focus on enduro and open up the GT factory DH spot for some fast kid who might actually get a top 20
1
5/29/2018 5:21am
Fred_Pop wrote:
As a owner of a Pole EVOLINK 176 with a 1340mm wheelbase, 63º headangle, 460mm chainstays and a reach of 520mm I can say hands down...
As a owner of a Pole EVOLINK 176 with a 1340mm wheelbase, 63º headangle, 460mm chainstays and a reach of 520mm I can say hands down this is the best bike I have ever had! I'm 180cm (5'11"). My bike is an L. Sure an Pole in size XL (535mm) or a nicolai geometron in XXL (555mm reach) would probably be too much for me. That being said my bike works everywhere and not just in a straight line! I don't have any problems cornering or riding tight trails. On paper it seems like these bikes won't work but they actually work really well.
Not diminishing your own gains in riding performance, but does the bike react the same as a BMX Bike at-speed on a track? This overall wide-berth...
Not diminishing your own gains in riding performance, but does the bike react the same as a BMX Bike at-speed on a track?

This overall wide-berth of frame design must be like that of long-skis vs shorter. Each have a tune to the terrain, the result comes from the person choosing to find the limits. I am not a Skier tho...

BMX Bikes have not changed much in 20years, and even still have not changed much in about 35. A little more squat is it, aside form designing compliance and aero-effect.

There are alot of Mountain Bike riders who are looking for a direct ride quality to that of a BMX Racer. These Pole / Nicolai / Mondraker builds appear to be oriented toward the exiting of tight trail segments - all rides being equal of course.

Is this perception of it being 'best bike' from personal failure-points on other bikes or, does this bike ride w/ your being along for the ride? Some riders apparently expect that sensation, but this is a passive experience to some.
I have ridden some super slack bikes, as well as some really steep bikes. Coming from an XC background i actually prefer a steeper HTA +/- 67 on a trail bike. And TBH, it suits me well. I'm not riding the steepest trails in the world and I need to do a fair bit of climbing on my normal "enduro" route. I think proper bike setup and feeling comfortable on the bike is more important than having a ridiculous geo number or crazy long wheelbase.
Primoz
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5/29/2018 7:47am
I've actually been thinking what would happen if you would take a geometron, slam the rear end to ~420 mm, steepen the head angle to at least 66° if not even something like 67° (66,6° as a happy medium Smile ) and keep the cockpit length and the steep seat angle. The wheelbase would still be insanely long (think 1250, maybe even more), but at least not over 1300 like it is with the geometron. And you'd load the fork bushings less.

But we are badly off topic here.
sspomer
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5/29/2018 1:22pm
moar santa cruz syndatease

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