Multiple World Champion and WC winner Danny Hart with no ride is just bonkers.
But isn't Danny Hart the exact example of how the world (and bikes) spins so differently compared to let's say 10-20 years ago when racing was just enough but that is simply not enough today? (Unless there is something else that makes you special – such as G.M.).
He (Danny) is a kinda invisible guy in the sense that there is really not so much around besides him racing. And that might start to be a hard position for companies even if you are a top dog under the clock.
More folks are realizing that they need to up their game in that way even though they are top ten riders – a great example is Troy Brosnan who is basically an Australian Danny Hart, doing his racing and nothing besides that. However, you can see him doing some content recently and figuring out how it fits him and what "sells".
For sure it does not fit everyone – some are more natural (B.K.) in that way, some less (T.B.). But people and companies demand more, I guess. People want to see someone doing something they are passionate about but unable to perform on that level. And they want it will all that sauce, the whole story... from your morning coffee to whatever. It's kinda weird.
And I'm not saying I like that... but it is what it is.
Could be something but probably not, the person who basically runs the whole deviate cycles brand in New Zealand is the same person who is incharge of dvo suspension in nz, brady used to ride for dvo nz. You see that deviate account liking posts from heaps of nz riders sponsored by other brands
It is a disservice to other competitors to claim Ms. White has "multiple national level wins". R&R shows a single Elite/Pro category win for her, in...
It is a disservice to other competitors to claim Ms. White has "multiple national level wins". R&R shows a single Elite/Pro category win for her, in a field of one, at Moelfre in 2018. She has some Open/Age group wins at a few BDS's and local enduros.
White is a legitimate racer, her added social media presence and low investment requirement evidently means she's worth sponsoring.
Claiming athletes need to get better at being like Neko is a bit silly. He's a great brand storyteller because the brand he represents is literally his story to tell. Being faster is still the priority for 95% of racers because the best "brand storytelling" a racer can do is win. Unless they take that bike to the top, what story is there to tell?
Did you not see the multiple "Welsh Enduro" wins. i.e. Wales, the country. Appreciate that nuance may be lost on non-UK people - the UK is...
Did you not see the multiple "Welsh Enduro" wins. i.e. Wales, the country. Appreciate that nuance may be lost on non-UK people - the UK is a United Kingdom of separate countries: England, Scotland, Wales and NI.
I also don't think it's "silly" to say athletes need to get better at being a brand representative/storyteller for their sponsors, rather than just the race results. There's a handful of hardcore race fans who can remember who placed where and when, but a far, far greater potential audience of people engaging with an athlete who documents their training, setup, riding and racing online. At the extreme zenith of this, Lionel Messi's value isn't solely the fact he's won everything - it's the story, the image, the window into his world through his socials that create the sales conversions for his partners and his financial value.
What the UK calls a "country" is practically what America calls a "state", and what most of the world calls a "province/territory". It's not special, I'm...
What the UK calls a "country" is practically what America calls a "state", and what most of the world calls a "province/territory". It's not special, I'm a British citizen too and it is administratively the same thing, the English just have to appease Wales and Scotland by calling them "countries".
So, still effectively regional racing. Albeit in a really small region comprising a smaller population than most American states. This isn't to criticize her achievements, I race non-professionally in a regional series and it is still very difficult. If Welsh Enduro wants to be a proper top-level domestic series it could at least provide professional categories for women, not just men.
My point is being really good will guarantee success. Being popular might help. People want to know the story that brought success, in the case of Mullaly and White. A few good racers being dropped is the outlier, not the norm. Even in those cases, it could be argued their careers were not precisely on the rise, in which case greater social media presence could've helped their value. But that "popularity" will rarely comprise over half the estimated evaluation of an athlete, performance will vastly be the dominant factor so that is where an athlete's priorities should be.
Thanks for sharing your insightful opinions on the nationhood of Wales and Scotland, however I feel they're wasted on the Team Rumors forum. Have you considered a speaking tour of Wales and Scotland? That way you could re-educate the locals and correct their misunderstandings. I'm sure you'd receive a warm welcome.
But isn't Danny Hart the exact example of how the world (and bikes) spins so differently compared to let's say 10-20 years ago when racing was...
But isn't Danny Hart the exact example of how the world (and bikes) spins so differently compared to let's say 10-20 years ago when racing was just enough but that is simply not enough today? (Unless there is something else that makes you special – such as G.M.).
He (Danny) is a kinda invisible guy in the sense that there is really not so much around besides him racing. And that might start to be a hard position for companies even if you are a top dog under the clock.
More folks are realizing that they need to up their game in that way even though they are top ten riders – a great example is Troy Brosnan who is basically an Australian Danny Hart, doing his racing and nothing besides that. However, you can see him doing some content recently and figuring out how it fits him and what "sells".
For sure it does not fit everyone – some are more natural (B.K.) in that way, some less (T.B.). But people and companies demand more, I guess. People want to see someone doing something they are passionate about but unable to perform on that level. And they want it will all that sauce, the whole story... from your morning coffee to whatever. It's kinda weird.
And I'm not saying I like that... but it is what it is.
What are you on about? Danny is pretty active on social media and has great engagement with his posts, 230k instagram followers and 70k subscibers (50k more than Troy Brosnan btw) on his youtube which he posts good videos on about once a month. Of the top dogs hes for sure one of the more visible outside of racing...
Damn, canyon makes room for someone heavy or just shaves costs!?
For Danny Hart a natural way could be a thing with Adam Baryton, they share...
Damn, canyon makes room for someone heavy or just shaves costs!?
For Danny Hart a natural way could be a thing with Adam Baryton, they share a lot of trainings...
Hart and Brayton would be a great combo and create great content. However, if the best racers can't compete due to lack of sponsorship related to non-racing social media obligations, what's the point?
re: canyon (and possibly other big brands)? it's an XC olympic year. could the big dumps and a brand like canyon be for XC talent at the olympic level? i have no insight or idea, but have to imagine olympics are at the forefront of budget talks for brands w/ an xc bike.
re: danny - as mentioned above, he has a very solid social and youtube presence. to say he's "kinda invisible" speaks to the way the system works IMO. he's not an over-the-top personality on camera or vlogger with click-baity/controversial subject matter, so he's not recommended by the machine, making him invisible to most mountain bikers. if you find him, however, he's documenting his experiences in a personal, real way, which many riders find interesting. troy is the same way IMO. he's putting in a good effort with fun vids and insane riding, but i rarely get him recommended. (i don't subscribe to most channels in hopes of seeing how this all works).
i watch skateboarding videos on youtube all the time. i can't count the number of rollerblade videos that get recommended to me. i tell youtube not to recommend those channels, but i still get other rollerblading channels recommended. apparently youtube thinks skateboarding and rollerblading are all the same. OR youtube knows a true, inner identity i have yet to accept...that i want to to be an inliner.
one swear word in the wrong place or discussing the history of a team robot water bottle with a controversial saying on it will mean a video goes absolutely nowhere. when i took the word "abuse" out of the "bike abuse" video titles on youtube, they started doing better. if there's not a crash in the thumbnail, crickets. that's the game that has to be played and it's pretty stupid. it's a game that has nothing to do with bike riding created by people who aren't focused on bikes.
if i look at the big social/youtube stars that are (or were) on less-common bike brands, i'm pretty certain that i've never seen their bike brands under local riders on the local trails; e-bike or regular. does their influence impact sales? i'm sure it does at a national/global level, but locally it's hard to see.
the job of an athlete/racer seems just as difficult as the job of marketing/sponsor person trying to crack the code of what's going to sell stuff. they're both dealing with results, and in the end, regardless of winning practice, followers or view counts, the clock and the spreadsheet don't lie.
More signs of Kona's demise; Kerry has done an AMAZING job bringing visibility to Kona and getting people to buy their bikes (check the comments). If they're dumping him things must be really bad...
More signs of Kona's demise; Kerry has done an AMAZING job bringing visibility to Kona and getting people to buy their bikes (check the comments). If...
More signs of Kona's demise; Kerry has done an AMAZING job bringing visibility to Kona and getting people to buy their bikes (check the comments). If they're dumping him things must be really bad...
Kerry lives across the creek from me when I am in Virginia. He has been miserable the last two years being forced by Kona to race gravel to save his job…
Funny, I just went to the Kona site to see if they had any CX bikes on close out. Just some super long gravel machines, I feel bad for Kenny having to race CX on those turds!
Hopefully he finds a sponsor with a more "viable" cross bike to race on.
re: canyon (and possibly other big brands)? it's an XC olympic year. could the big dumps and a brand like canyon be for XC talent at...
re: canyon (and possibly other big brands)? it's an XC olympic year. could the big dumps and a brand like canyon be for XC talent at the olympic level? i have no insight or idea, but have to imagine olympics are at the forefront of budget talks for brands w/ an xc bike.
re: danny - as mentioned above, he has a very solid social and youtube presence. to say he's "kinda invisible" speaks to the way the system works IMO. he's not an over-the-top personality on camera or vlogger with click-baity/controversial subject matter, so he's not recommended by the machine, making him invisible to most mountain bikers. if you find him, however, he's documenting his experiences in a personal, real way, which many riders find interesting. troy is the same way IMO. he's putting in a good effort with fun vids and insane riding, but i rarely get him recommended. (i don't subscribe to most channels in hopes of seeing how this all works).
i watch skateboarding videos on youtube all the time. i can't count the number of rollerblade videos that get recommended to me. i tell youtube not to recommend those channels, but i still get other rollerblading channels recommended. apparently youtube thinks skateboarding and rollerblading are all the same. OR youtube knows a true, inner identity i have yet to accept...that i want to to be an inliner.
one swear word in the wrong place or discussing the history of a team robot water bottle with a controversial saying on it will mean a video goes absolutely nowhere. when i took the word "abuse" out of the "bike abuse" video titles on youtube, they started doing better. if there's not a crash in the thumbnail, crickets. that's the game that has to be played and it's pretty stupid. it's a game that has nothing to do with bike riding created by people who aren't focused on bikes.
if i look at the big social/youtube stars that are (or were) on less-common bike brands, i'm pretty certain that i've never seen their bike brands under local riders on the local trails; e-bike or regular. does their influence impact sales? i'm sure it does at a national/global level, but locally it's hard to see.
the job of an athlete/racer seems just as difficult as the job of marketing/sponsor person trying to crack the code of what's going to sell stuff. they're both dealing with results, and in the end, regardless of winning practice, followers or view counts, the clock and the spreadsheet don't lie.
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by...
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by asa but with Tyler waite from nz riding the yeti dh bike and presumably getting support from yeti at world cups next year, we might have another goldstone vs williams situation
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff and both of them are already posting times at national rounds to beat current WC racer, juniors will be amazing next year!
Funny, I just went to the Kona site to see if they had any CX bikes on close out. Just some super long gravel machines, I...
Funny, I just went to the Kona site to see if they had any CX bikes on close out. Just some super long gravel machines, I feel bad for Kenny having to race CX on those turds!
Hopefully he finds a sponsor with a more "viable" cross bike to race on.
Sadly it's probably un-likely. Less and less brands are really making dedicated CX bikes anymore. And if they are, they're not updating them/developing them/getting them under 'pros' racing CX. Couple this with the decline of CX racing, it all adds up.
Regarding Kerry himself, this could be a death nail to his pro cycling career as it's going to be tough to find sponsorship in the US at this point. That said, he's got lots of visibility, good results and a following, so maybe some brand will give him a paid ambassador/racer deal.
RE Spomer's thought that maybe Canyon opening budget for XC since it's an Olympic year:
-Don't think this is the case. They're not currently hiring new racers for just this year. That cake and budget is already baked. Big money signings (to get people on their roster for Olympics) would have taken place 1-2 years in the past and salaries would randomly increase this year because it's the Olympics.
RE Spomer's thought that maybe Canyon opening budget for XC since it's an Olympic year:
-Don't think this is the case. They're not currently hiring new...
RE Spomer's thought that maybe Canyon opening budget for XC since it's an Olympic year:
-Don't think this is the case. They're not currently hiring new racers for just this year. That cake and budget is already baked. Big money signings (to get people on their roster for Olympics) would have taken place 1-2 years in the past and salaries would randomly increase this year because it's the Olympics.
Kerry works for Bikeflights now. After Kona fired all the riders and team managers in June Bikeflights was nice enough to give Kerry a wrapped sprinter. They want him to actually enjoy bike racing in 2024, and they will be covering all his domestic travel and racing(he just has to be the face of Bikeflights and the events he heads to).
His priority for race bikes next year are a superduper light FS bike for stage racing- and real CX bikes.
Big ups to Bikeflights for supporting atheletes doing what they love.
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by...
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by asa but with Tyler waite from nz riding the yeti dh bike and presumably getting support from yeti at world cups next year, we might have another goldstone vs williams situation
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff...
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff and both of them are already posting times at national rounds to beat current WC racer, juniors will be amazing next year!
Not to mention George Madley on Madison Saracen as a first year WC Junior
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by...
Really interested to see how juinor mens world cup dh plays out next year, originally would have just been thinking it to be primarily dominated by asa but with Tyler waite from nz riding the yeti dh bike and presumably getting support from yeti at world cups next year, we might have another goldstone vs williams situation
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff...
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff and both of them are already posting times at national rounds to beat current WC racer, juniors will be amazing next year!
They're twins.
One of them is going to be on Muc-Off, the other will be on another Commencal team.
This is idle speculation, but I'd put money on Till riding for Muc-Off and Max joining Estaque, Frix & Co.
I think that might be Ollie Davis
Interesting that he tags Martin Whitely but no one else...
But isn't Danny Hart the exact example of how the world (and bikes) spins so differently compared to let's say 10-20 years ago when racing was just enough but that is simply not enough today? (Unless there is something else that makes you special – such as G.M.).
He (Danny) is a kinda invisible guy in the sense that there is really not so much around besides him racing. And that might start to be a hard position for companies even if you are a top dog under the clock.
More folks are realizing that they need to up their game in that way even though they are top ten riders – a great example is Troy Brosnan who is basically an Australian Danny Hart, doing his racing and nothing besides that. However, you can see him doing some content recently and figuring out how it fits him and what "sells".
For sure it does not fit everyone – some are more natural (B.K.) in that way, some less (T.B.). But people and companies demand more, I guess. People want to see someone doing something they are passionate about but unable to perform on that level. And they want it will all that sauce, the whole story... from your morning coffee to whatever. It's kinda weird.
And I'm not saying I like that... but it is what it is.
On the left is Elliot Jamieson riding what appears to be a Commencal after riding for Norco since he was a Junior DH racer. More Norco exits.
Liked by Devitate cycles…. Interesting
Could be something but probably not, the person who basically runs the whole deviate cycles brand in New Zealand is the same person who is incharge of dvo suspension in nz, brady used to ride for dvo nz. You see that deviate account liking posts from heaps of nz riders sponsored by other brands
Thanks for sharing your insightful opinions on the nationhood of Wales and Scotland, however I feel they're wasted on the Team Rumors forum. Have you considered a speaking tour of Wales and Scotland? That way you could re-educate the locals and correct their misunderstandings. I'm sure you'd receive a warm welcome.
Yes, i thought of that! They follow each other on insta
José Borges off Canyon Collective.
What are you on about? Danny is pretty active on social media and has great engagement with his posts, 230k instagram followers and 70k subscibers (50k more than Troy Brosnan btw) on his youtube which he posts good videos on about once a month. Of the top dogs hes for sure one of the more visible outside of racing...
Damn, canyon makes room for someone heavy or just shaves costs!?
For Danny Hart a natural way could be a thing with Adam Baryton, they share a lot of trainings...
Symon Godziek off NS bikes
https://www.instagram.com/p/C1bqDF5A65q/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
David hinted he is too a couple of days ago
Hart and Brayton would be a great combo and create great content. However, if the best racers can't compete due to lack of sponsorship related to non-racing social media obligations, what's the point?
The rumor is there heading to the big S. It’s like 20 pages back.
Just making things up here…. Agissiz to Forbidden.
Ethan Nell’s new sponsor Washington county bankruptcy court. First sponsor deal of 2024, repossessing the Porsche from his last mediocre edit.
Here ya go: https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/2024-team-rumors?page=45#comment-38…
re: canyon (and possibly other big brands)? it's an XC olympic year. could the big dumps and a brand like canyon be for XC talent at the olympic level? i have no insight or idea, but have to imagine olympics are at the forefront of budget talks for brands w/ an xc bike.
re: danny - as mentioned above, he has a very solid social and youtube presence. to say he's "kinda invisible" speaks to the way the system works IMO. he's not an over-the-top personality on camera or vlogger with click-baity/controversial subject matter, so he's not recommended by the machine, making him invisible to most mountain bikers. if you find him, however, he's documenting his experiences in a personal, real way, which many riders find interesting. troy is the same way IMO. he's putting in a good effort with fun vids and insane riding, but i rarely get him recommended. (i don't subscribe to most channels in hopes of seeing how this all works).
i watch skateboarding videos on youtube all the time. i can't count the number of rollerblade videos that get recommended to me. i tell youtube not to recommend those channels, but i still get other rollerblading channels recommended. apparently youtube thinks skateboarding and rollerblading are all the same. OR youtube knows a true, inner identity i have yet to accept...that i want to to be an inliner.
one swear word in the wrong place or discussing the history of a team robot water bottle with a controversial saying on it will mean a video goes absolutely nowhere. when i took the word "abuse" out of the "bike abuse" video titles on youtube, they started doing better. if there's not a crash in the thumbnail, crickets. that's the game that has to be played and it's pretty stupid. it's a game that has nothing to do with bike riding created by people who aren't focused on bikes.
if i look at the big social/youtube stars that are (or were) on less-common bike brands, i'm pretty certain that i've never seen their bike brands under local riders on the local trails; e-bike or regular. does their influence impact sales? i'm sure it does at a national/global level, but locally it's hard to see.
the job of an athlete/racer seems just as difficult as the job of marketing/sponsor person trying to crack the code of what's going to sell stuff. they're both dealing with results, and in the end, regardless of winning practice, followers or view counts, the clock and the spreadsheet don't lie.
More signs of Kona's demise; Kerry has done an AMAZING job bringing visibility to Kona and getting people to buy their bikes (check the comments). If they're dumping him things must be really bad...
Vid Persak won't be riding for Orbea bikes next season:
Kerry lives across the creek from me when I am in Virginia. He has been miserable the last two years being forced by Kona to race gravel to save his job…
Remember Kona hasn’t made a CX bike since 2019!
Funny, I just went to the Kona site to see if they had any CX bikes on close out. Just some super long gravel machines, I feel bad for Kenny having to race CX on those turds!
Hopefully he finds a sponsor with a more "viable" cross bike to race on.
pinkrollerblade.com
Ooh this could get real interesting as the is also the older of the Alran bros moving up, rumors are that he'll be in Commençal MucOff and both of them are already posting times at national rounds to beat current WC racer, juniors will be amazing next year!
Sadly it's probably un-likely. Less and less brands are really making dedicated CX bikes anymore. And if they are, they're not updating them/developing them/getting them under 'pros' racing CX. Couple this with the decline of CX racing, it all adds up.
Regarding Kerry himself, this could be a death nail to his pro cycling career as it's going to be tough to find sponsorship in the US at this point. That said, he's got lots of visibility, good results and a following, so maybe some brand will give him a paid ambassador/racer deal.
RE Spomer's thought that maybe Canyon opening budget for XC since it's an Olympic year:
-Don't think this is the case. They're not currently hiring new racers for just this year. That cake and budget is already baked. Big money signings (to get people on their roster for Olympics) would have taken place 1-2 years in the past and salaries would randomly increase this year because it's the Olympics.
This is worth a read , sad but probably the main reason for all the job lay offs…..
https://enduro-mtb.com/en/edr-on-the-brink-of-extinction/
Kerry works for Bikeflights now. After Kona fired all the riders and team managers in June Bikeflights was nice enough to give Kerry a wrapped sprinter. They want him to actually enjoy bike racing in 2024, and they will be covering all his domestic travel and racing(he just has to be the face of Bikeflights and the events he heads to).
His priority for race bikes next year are a superduper light FS bike for stage racing- and real CX bikes.
Big ups to Bikeflights for supporting atheletes doing what they love.
Not to mention George Madley on Madison Saracen as a first year WC Junior
They're twins.
One of them is going to be on Muc-Off, the other will be on another Commencal team.
This is idle speculation, but I'd put money on Till riding for Muc-Off and Max joining Estaque, Frix & Co.
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