There are a few reasons why we haven't done crowns.1. To be honest unless you go really wild with offset, it's an adjustment you get used...
There are a few reasons why we haven't done crowns.
1. To be honest unless you go really wild with offset, it's an adjustment you get used to and no longer feel. I've gone back and forth between 50 mm offsets on my trail bikes to match my DH bike and then 44 mm offset on my DH bike to match my trail bike and found it takes less than a day to get accustomed to the change. I actually spoke with the guy who did the Outsider adjustable crowns about this and he had the same experience. So to me there isn't value in doing it on my own bike. If I don't see myself spending the money on it I assume most others won't either considering I like spending money on bikes much more than most.
2. So many people do not understand the implications of offset/trail. An example from Matt Beer's article on DH fork offsets: "I’ve also found that rolling the bars back on downhill bikes with longer fork offset to be necessary to neutralize or slow down the wheel-flop." The implication here is that longer offset results in more pronounced wheel flop. The reality is longer offset results in less wheel flop because reduced trail = less flop and faster steering but less of a self centering caster type affect. Another example from Paul Aston's review of the Outsider crowns: "The longest offset made the bike the most unstable and twitchy, and I could feel the contact patch moving forwards and backward along the tire when turning the handlebar." This is partially right because less trail does make for more twitch, but again he seems to be describing wheel flop and again attributing it to a longer offset. If you are changing offset to address a perceived issue but are actually making an adjustment in the wrong direction for that particular issue, it begs the question of whether or not that issue is real or if it's actually something else entirely.
3. I believe there is a strong argument for more experienced riders running longer offsets. Look no further than the fact that lots of WC riders have not gone out of their way to shorten their offset. This is the group that's going to be willing to spend serious money on new crowns. With better bike control, the self-centering stability of more trail isn't as big of a deal and there's the potential upside of quicker steering.
Any word if/when Marzocchi is going to come out with a 29" 58? I want a simple freeride/park fork that can fit 29" wheels, not a...
Any word if/when Marzocchi is going to come out with a 29" 58? I want a simple freeride/park fork that can fit 29" wheels, not a $2500+ Boxxer Ultimate or Fox Factory 49.
There are a few reasons why we haven't done crowns.1. To be honest unless you go really wild with offset, it's an adjustment you get used...
There are a few reasons why we haven't done crowns.
1. To be honest unless you go really wild with offset, it's an adjustment you get used to and no longer feel. I've gone back and forth between 50 mm offsets on my trail bikes to match my DH bike and then 44 mm offset on my DH bike to match my trail bike and found it takes less than a day to get accustomed to the change. I actually spoke with the guy who did the Outsider adjustable crowns about this and he had the same experience. So to me there isn't value in doing it on my own bike. If I don't see myself spending the money on it I assume most others won't either considering I like spending money on bikes much more than most.
2. So many people do not understand the implications of offset/trail. An example from Matt Beer's article on DH fork offsets: "I’ve also found that rolling the bars back on downhill bikes with longer fork offset to be necessary to neutralize or slow down the wheel-flop." The implication here is that longer offset results in more pronounced wheel flop. The reality is longer offset results in less wheel flop because reduced trail = less flop and faster steering but less of a self centering caster type affect. Another example from Paul Aston's review of the Outsider crowns: "The longest offset made the bike the most unstable and twitchy, and I could feel the contact patch moving forwards and backward along the tire when turning the handlebar." This is partially right because less trail does make for more twitch, but again he seems to be describing wheel flop and again attributing it to a longer offset. If you are changing offset to address a perceived issue but are actually making an adjustment in the wrong direction for that particular issue, it begs the question of whether or not that issue is real or if it's actually something else entirely.
3. I believe there is a strong argument for more experienced riders running longer offsets. Look no further than the fact that lots of WC riders have not gone out of their way to shorten their offset. This is the group that's going to be willing to spend serious money on new crowns. With better bike control, the self-centering stability of more trail isn't as big of a deal and there's the potential upside of quicker steering.
How much would you think it would cost a consumer to have someone machine custom crowns for their fork if they wanted to?
Cascade already hit the big items; you essentially have to cut metal parts to hold other metal parts. Unless you own a mill and have the time/know how it gets costly quick, and you really need to cut "x" to make it worthwhile.
3D printing is getting closer to being economical with something like this. I'd still bet its out of reach by a good bit (based on comparing parts I've cut to what it'd cost to 3D print) but I do see a world in the relatively near future where you could find a shop to print crowns that are exactly your offset/height/direct mount spec. If I were to guess, it'd cost like $1,200 now (in alloy, more out of steel). (eek)
Pics? I would say highly unlikely even at mates rates. Maybe top crown, deffo not full setup with both crowns and steerer and material cost alone.
There is a huge amount of CNC machine work in Taiwan/China. It's also possible to have complex items as part of larger orders. Not everything has to be done in the USA.
I don't have a full steerer, it's similar to the intend fork with a nub sitting into the bearing and a bolt through to preload
There is a huge amount of CNC machine work in Taiwan/China. It's also possible to have complex items as part of larger orders. Not everything has...
There is a huge amount of CNC machine work in Taiwan/China. It's also possible to have complex items as part of larger orders. Not everything has to be done in the USA.
I don't have a full steerer, it's similar to the intend fork with a nub sitting into the bearing and a bolt through to preload
I would say the cost everywhere else than china is at least double of your stated number,
Basically whats old is new again, RS used to have goldish stanchions anyways, then in 2001 they came out with a Ti Nitride as you mentioned but it was rubbish and flaked off, they also have gold legs on a Psylo this was 23 years ago before Fox even had a fork im pretty sure. They do say that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery.
They’re just giving gold stanchions to their World Champs.
It’s that simple, no conspiracy. Just gold for gold.
Now if they would bring back the old “Boxxer” and totem graphics on the stanchions we would all be happy again. But seriously. Can companies start doing fun things again? Spiral fork stanchion graphics or something just different?
What are the similarities and differences between the E13 sidekick and the WRProducts DTSwiss 0 drag internals? If this has been covered feel free to flog me.
What are the similarities and differences between the E13 sidekick and the WRProducts DTSwiss 0 drag internals? If this has been covered feel free to flog...
What are the similarities and differences between the E13 sidekick and the WRProducts DTSwiss 0 drag internals? If this has been covered feel free to flog me.
Yeah I'd love an explainer of these too. It sounds like the WRP thing requires you to backpedal briefly to engage a freecoaster mode?
WRP 0 drag mod is exactly what it was designed for; zero drag free coasting. It was designed to reduce rolling resistance. When you backpedal, it moves the DT ratchets apart so they are no longer dragging. When you pedal forward it re-engages them so you can pedal. WRP themselves mentioned it was not designed around pedal kickback nor is it out there to challenge devices like OChain. Quote from them: "pedal kickback and pedalling are the same thing just inverse; so if you can pedal it won’t eliminate pedal kickback. But we’re working on another device for thT"
E13 sidekick on the other hand is designed specifically to reduce pedal kickback. You don't choose between a pedal or coast mode. Your pawls are still dragging.
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike (which might bring the complete weight below 40lbs lol). And a new carbon framed e-bike using a new version of polygons 6-bar linkage. Looks to be using a Bosch motor based off some of his POV footage and will presumably use the new Bosch gen5 motor. Pics: (e-bike is the black bike, Carbon colossus is the white one)
Not really rumor but some pretty cool innovation in the pinkbike / pivot video on their new bike. It is amazing to see the resources and support put into a program that produces the bike that they will most likely sell the least units of. It is also amazing to see the support and trust Pivot puts in BK and how much the rely on his racing program to develop the bikes and technology.
From my understanding it takes about 2 years to go from design lock to production molds to bikes on the shelf. So when the pivot team started racing the lugged prototype they were already at least a year into the bikes development I bet.
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike...
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike (which might bring the complete weight below 40lbs lol). And a new carbon framed e-bike using a new version of polygons 6-bar linkage. Looks to be using a Bosch motor based off some of his POV footage and will presumably use the new Bosch gen5 motor. Pics: (e-bike is the black bike, Carbon colossus is the white one)
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike...
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike (which might bring the complete weight below 40lbs lol). And a new carbon framed e-bike using a new version of polygons 6-bar linkage. Looks to be using a Bosch motor based off some of his POV footage and will presumably use the new Bosch gen5 motor. Pics: (e-bike is the black bike, Carbon colossus is the white one)
I won't be surprised if there will be better solutions from Rotor/Wheel top in the future, and collab between them.
But current Wheeltop solution doesn't look good IMO, no spare battery, the remote doesn't look like a good solution, no matchmaker clamp, but their own. So I'm not sold on it yet.
Sweet "Saint" crank on the team bikes. Easy upgrade for those who want the full factory spec on their new Phoenix!
Sweet "Saint" crank on the team bikes. Easy upgrade for those who want the full factory spec on their new Phoenix!
it has been mentioned that those with the saint sticker are the team bikes of the factory riders, that‘s why they have the sticker on so that shimano doesn‘t crap their pants.
Mine were less than $500 CAD with an integrated stem to match the offset
Spotted this in Bernard Kerrs latest vlog, does anyone here know what it is?
Saracen
Pics? I would say highly unlikely even at mates rates. Maybe top crown, deffo not full setup with both crowns and steerer and material cost alone.
Get yourself a Dorado comp
Cascade already hit the big items; you essentially have to cut metal parts to hold other metal parts. Unless you own a mill and have the time/know how it gets costly quick, and you really need to cut "x" to make it worthwhile.
3D printing is getting closer to being economical with something like this. I'd still bet its out of reach by a good bit (based on comparing parts I've cut to what it'd cost to 3D print) but I do see a world in the relatively near future where you could find a shop to print crowns that are exactly your offset/height/direct mount spec. If I were to guess, it'd cost like $1,200 now (in alloy, more out of steel). (eek)
There is a huge amount of CNC machine work in Taiwan/China. It's also possible to have complex items as part of larger orders. Not everything has to be done in the USA.
I don't have a full steerer, it's similar to the intend fork with a nub sitting into the bearing and a bolt through to preload
An interesting move from RockShox? (They also bought the Kashima coating or is this RS' old Titanium Nitride coating?)
Source: https://en.brujulabike.com/new-rock-shox-xco-fork-golden-bars-prototype/
How many times are people people going to post this? It’s not Kashima. Lol
I would say the cost everywhere else than china is at least double of your stated number,
Just because it‘s gold doesn‘t make it Kashima. If it would say Kashima on there it is.
Basically whats old is new again, RS used to have goldish stanchions anyways, then in 2001 they came out with a Ti Nitride as you mentioned but it was rubbish and flaked off, they also have gold legs on a Psylo this was 23 years ago before Fox even had a fork im pretty sure. They do say that plagiarism is the highest form of flattery.
They’re just giving gold stanchions to their World Champs.
It’s that simple, no conspiracy. Just gold for gold.
Now if they would bring back the old “Boxxer” and totem graphics on the stanchions we would all be happy again. But seriously. Can companies start doing fun things again? Spiral fork stanchion graphics or something just different?
What are the similarities and differences between the E13 sidekick and the WRProducts DTSwiss 0 drag internals? If this has been covered feel free to flog me.
Yeah I'd love an explainer of these too. It sounds like the WRP thing requires you to backpedal briefly to engage a freecoaster mode?
"Zero Drag" DT Swiss Internals — Williams Racing Products
Those are two different things.
WRP 0 drag mod is exactly what it was designed for; zero drag free coasting. It was designed to reduce rolling resistance. When you backpedal, it moves the DT ratchets apart so they are no longer dragging. When you pedal forward it re-engages them so you can pedal. WRP themselves mentioned it was not designed around pedal kickback nor is it out there to challenge devices like OChain. Quote from them: "pedal kickback and pedalling are the same thing just inverse; so if you can pedal it won’t eliminate pedal kickback. But we’re working on another device for thT"
E13 sidekick on the other hand is designed specifically to reduce pedal kickback. You don't choose between a pedal or coast mode. Your pawls are still dragging.
Interesting and thx for the good descriptions. I hope this stuff keeps coming!
Looks to be two new bikes coming from Polygon based on Dan Wolfes instagram. Looks like they’re making a carbon version of the colossus enduro bike (which might bring the complete weight below 40lbs lol). And a new carbon framed e-bike using a new version of polygons 6-bar linkage. Looks to be using a Bosch motor based off some of his POV footage and will presumably use the new Bosch gen5 motor.
Pics: (e-bike is the black bike, Carbon colossus is the white one)
Sweet "Saint" crank on the team bikes. Easy upgrade for those who want the full factory spec on their new Phoenix!
Not really rumor but some pretty cool innovation in the pinkbike / pivot video on their new bike. It is amazing to see the resources and support put into a program that produces the bike that they will most likely sell the least units of. It is also amazing to see the support and trust Pivot puts in BK and how much the rely on his racing program to develop the bikes and technology.
From my understanding it takes about 2 years to go from design lock to production molds to bikes on the shelf. So when the pivot team started racing the lugged prototype they were already at least a year into the bikes development I bet.
Still a linkage driven 4 bar?
A new Rocky seems to be on the way, should be realeased in 1-2 weeks (info from local retailer's instagram). I guess a new powerplay (?)
rocky instinct with motor, lite e-bike. still with rocky motor.
Correct terms… please. We must be proper
Oh crab, forgot about it, help me out on the correct term? Previously someone called it a sex bar.
If that's deliberate, your typo is brilliant!
Sadly it's not a Freudian slip 😂
Chinese OEM WheelTop acquires majority stake in Rotor
https://bikebiz.com/chinese-oem-wheeltop-acquires-majority-stake-in-rotor/
https://wheeltop.com/
https://rotorbike.com/
I won't be surprised if there will be better solutions from Rotor/Wheel top in the future, and collab between them.
But current Wheeltop solution doesn't look good IMO, no spare battery, the remote doesn't look like a good solution, no matchmaker clamp, but their own. So I'm not sold on it yet.
it has been mentioned that those with the saint sticker are the team bikes of the factory riders, that‘s why they have the sticker on so that shimano doesn‘t crap their pants.
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