I actually like Sram transmission for where I ride. Northeast chunk hits your derailleur at weird times, the direct mount transmission has saved me more than once. I banged the lower cage so bad over many rocks that I replaced it about a year in - now it's perfect again. Before the transmission stuff I was stocking 5+ hangers at a time. I did wish they had a cable actuated version for transmission - although charging batteries hasn't been too much of a hassle just yet. Shifting under power also feels pretty good compared to the old GX and Shimano XTs. Don't like wireless droppers. Absolutely no gain over the cable actuated ones in each and every way. Wishing for some machinist/fabricator to somehow frankenstein a cable version of transmission - happy to pay for that.
Why is there so much backlash against frame manufactures like Santa Cruz and Specialized going electronic drivetrain only but no one is questioning what is driving that decision? With GX level AXS and transmission, and the new OEM level transmission SRAM has all but said we aren't doing mechanical shifting anymore. I have no idea what Shimano's plans are with the new Di2 replacement but my guess is that it's going to cover a wide range of performance levels to compete with SRAM, possibly even cannibalizing all their mechanical shifting options. That leaves you with CUES, which by all accounts is great but I'm not sure fills the wants of the general MTB buying public.
My point is all the hate here is directed at the frame manufactures but why would they put holes in frames if they know there soon wont be any cables to put through those holes.
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on...
What are you talking about? You can choose between soooooo many brands. The people who tend to choose the big brands (the ones ditching cables on the high end carbon trail bikes) are the kind of people who don’t want cables on their high end trail bikes. You can choose from so many amazing brands that tick all of your boxes. But I don’t think that’s what any of this has been about: this has been an exercise in shitting on the hot new thing, shitting on big bad business, shitting on “oh no this is different and scary.”
Big brands know you have a choice. They know who picks their bikes and who doesn’t. And they don’t care if you don’t want their bikes, they’ll sell them hand over fist anyways.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
Something I find interesting about this whole thread derailment w.r.t. opinions on wireless drivetrains:
Since I started paying attention to mtb in the early 2010s, there has always been a reactionary design (or lack of design?) movement in smaller companies while the big ones drove a consumer market. When carbon-fibre frames became a more common sight in gravity-oriented riding, small companies would advertise their aluminium or steel construction. When the big corps pushed for 29-inch wheels, small companies would advertise their 27.5-inch wheeled bikes (or, for some time, 26-inch!).
But throughout this pattern (which is admittedly weak), it has always been coming from frame manufacturers. If something happens like SRAM and Shimano pruning their cable-driven options, will we start to see companies like TRP and Microshift advertise their still-cable-driven options? Will we see companies trying to appeal to the anti-wireless crowd with wide-range 9-speed drivetrains? Will we see gearboxes rise in popularity?
Looks like the wireless Fox dropper is just around the corner
Looks like the wireless Fox dropper is just around the corner
How on earth did you even stop looking at the "pranks"* long enough to notice that there was a wireless fox dropper on there. Seriously, I'm all for short cranks, but I think the industry is taking this one too far.
*pegs + cranks = pranks... ok, maybe we need to work shop this one a bit, but I'm rolling with it for now.
How on earth did you even stop looking at the "pranks"* long enough to notice that there was a wireless fox dropper on there. Seriously...
How on earth did you even stop looking at the "pranks"* long enough to notice that there was a wireless fox dropper on there. Seriously, I'm all for short cranks, but I think the industry is taking this one too far.
*pegs + cranks = pranks... ok, maybe we need to work shop this one a bit, but I'm rolling with it for now.
The man took innovation to a whole new level. 0X front derailleur, shifting is synced to the cloud. I bet his headtube is double tapered.
The issue most people have is that transmission is heavy and extremely expensive. Its really that, it's driving up the overall cost of running a quality setup, and that's rightly frustrating.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us...
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear. "
There is no timing, there's no sensor that knows the position of the cassette. The magic is in the cassette itself, which is designed more like an OG front dual chainring with ramps that only move the chain up when it hits those designed shift points. There are also narrow-wide elements on the largest cogs to retain the chain, presumably for back pedaling with the wide chainlines they've designed around. The cassette is a brilliant piece of kit, and is where the magic happens.
I've actually rigged up an old non-UDH bike to work with the older GX Eagle mechanical derailleur and T-Type cassette (+other req'd T-Type bits). It required some frame mods to avoid chain rubbing in the 10t, but it works brilliantly.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us...
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows...
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear. "
There is no timing, there's no sensor that knows the position of the cassette. The magic is in the cassette itself, which is designed more like an OG front dual chainring with ramps that only move the chain up when it hits those designed shift points. There are also narrow-wide elements on the largest cogs to retain the chain, presumably for back pedaling with the wide chainlines they've designed around. The cassette is a brilliant piece of kit, and is where the magic happens.
I've actually rigged up an old non-UDH bike to work with the older GX Eagle mechanical derailleur and T-Type cassette (+other req'd T-Type bits). It required some frame mods to avoid chain rubbing in the 10t, but it works brilliantly.
Thanks for calling this out, I'd love to see this myth die.
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going...
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going to be a while before the average person considers (non-e) bikes with electronics and batteries to be more "normal" than their purely mechanical counterparts. Until then, there's going to be major pushback from cyclists who think it's ridiculous that they can't buy the bike they want without being forced to spend extra on electronic shifting.
Then of course there's e-bikes, but if they continue rising in popularity among regular people (which should incentivize development of cheap and effective drive units), I think most would agree there should still be an option to save $$$ by not being forced to run a fancy and unnecessary electronic shifter. I won't ignore the fact that there may well be cheap and effective e-derailleurs powered by e-bike batteries in the near future, but that doesn't help the issue for regular bikes.
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted...
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
Fair point about weights converging but prices are not yet converging and likely never will. The cost premium of a new Levo over a new Status is around $2,000.
Another issue is access. Here in North Carolina the only place that really justifies an ebike is Pisgah. I'd love an ebike to shorten the gravel death marches up Avery Creek and Clawhammer Roads but they are still not allowed. Maybe in 3-5 years they will be? Who knows?
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted...
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
I've always had a saying with bikes over 160mm of travel & are on DH casing tyres etc, 'if the trails require That kinda bike, they also require a shuttle/lift' I would rather take my short travel ripper such as a Fluid/rift zone/new trance x(which i own and damn its good) pedal those up and put the fun level much higher.
Although, A long travel ebike.... solves all the problems🤣
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted...
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
Even if power density of batteries doubles (unlikely in 3-5 years) that still puts a 500w pack at 3.5-4lb. The tq50 is over 4lb and is unlikely to get much lighter than that. I'm not sure where you save 8lb from unless Am/enduro frames get really heavy.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us...
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows...
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear. "
There is no timing, there's no sensor that knows the position of the cassette. The magic is in the cassette itself, which is designed more like an OG front dual chainring with ramps that only move the chain up when it hits those designed shift points. There are also narrow-wide elements on the largest cogs to retain the chain, presumably for back pedaling with the wide chainlines they've designed around. The cassette is a brilliant piece of kit, and is where the magic happens.
I've actually rigged up an old non-UDH bike to work with the older GX Eagle mechanical derailleur and T-Type cassette (+other req'd T-Type bits). It required some frame mods to avoid chain rubbing in the 10t, but it works brilliantly.
Thanks for calling this out, I'd love to see this myth die.
It’s not just the cassette that’s magic. Insiders at both Shimano and Sram have explained it to me like this: There’s nothing timing the first movement of the derailleur except your thumb pressing the button. The first actual chain derailment might not happen immediately however because the cassettes have been designed to very strongly encourage the shift to occur only where the gates/ramps allow it. For subsequent shifts the system estimates how long it will take until the next gate/ramp lines up with the chain, and delays the shift until that time has elapsed so that the chain engages with teeth on every cog rather than dumping across the block. It does this based on knowing which cog you’re on, how many gates will be on the next cog, and a guess of your likely pedaling cadence depending on whether you’re shifting to a harder or easier gear.
The fastest shifting setup I’ve experienced was pre-T-Type AXS with an HG+ cassette and chain - but I broke chains, I think because it was just relying on brute force over finesse. I’ve stopped running that setup because fast shifts can’t justify a walk out of the woods. I think e-bikes are the true driver of this because there’s more power and that power doesn’t let off at the top/bottom of the pedal stroke.
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted...
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
Even if power density of batteries doubles (unlikely in 3-5 years) that still puts a 500w pack at 3.5-4lb. The tq50 is over 4lb and is...
Even if power density of batteries doubles (unlikely in 3-5 years) that still puts a 500w pack at 3.5-4lb. The tq50 is over 4lb and is unlikely to get much lighter than that. I'm not sure where you save 8lb from unless Am/enduro frames get really heavy.
Probably 5 of those 8lbs you'd want if you had assist. The other 3 is no biggy
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going...
You're not wrong, but every single car on the road today has a battery (and has since the 1920s), and 99+% of bicycles don't. It's going to be a while before the average person considers (non-e) bikes with electronics and batteries to be more "normal" than their purely mechanical counterparts. Until then, there's going to be major pushback from cyclists who think it's ridiculous that they can't buy the bike they want without being forced to spend extra on electronic shifting.
Then of course there's e-bikes, but if they continue rising in popularity among regular people (which should incentivize development of cheap and effective drive units), I think most would agree there should still be an option to save $$$ by not being forced to run a fancy and unnecessary electronic shifter. I won't ignore the fact that there may well be cheap and effective e-derailleurs powered by e-bike batteries in the near future, but that doesn't help the issue for regular bikes.
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted...
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
I feel the same way. I'm never selling my current enduro bike, but I see zero reason why I need another pedal powered bike too burly for me to ever break, let alone use to its full potential.
(Haibike Nduro 8 Freeride)
I'll take a full power super enduro with a dual crown though. Kind of perplexed that there are so few of them on the market, currently. I'll take the most "moped/moto" bike I can get. 38 feels great on the pedal bike, but 40 or bust on the emtb, for sure. Shoot, real motos had "mullet" wheelsets what 50 years ago now?
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full face to sit alongside their enduro version the “mainline”
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full...
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full face to sit alongside their enduro version the “mainline”
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full...
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full face to sit alongside their enduro version the “mainline”
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows...
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear. "
There is no timing, there's no sensor that knows the position of the cassette. The magic is in the cassette itself, which is designed more like an OG front dual chainring with ramps that only move the chain up when it hits those designed shift points. There are also narrow-wide elements on the largest cogs to retain the chain, presumably for back pedaling with the wide chainlines they've designed around. The cassette is a brilliant piece of kit, and is where the magic happens.
I've actually rigged up an old non-UDH bike to work with the older GX Eagle mechanical derailleur and T-Type cassette (+other req'd T-Type bits). It required some frame mods to avoid chain rubbing in the 10t, but it works brilliantly.
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which it does. Marketing hyperbole or not.
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which...
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which it does. Marketing hyperbole or not.
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift.
Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing.
This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift.
The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur.
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which...
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which it does. Marketing hyperbole or not.
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift.
Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing.
This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift.
The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur.
It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as per the marketing material... It works it out.
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift. Transmission...
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift.
Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing.
This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift.
The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur.
I’m getting the vibe this is a word salad thing for everybody.
Maybe try this: The chain “knows” when to shift because of how the system/cassette is designed.
Or even better: the chain “knows” what to do after the derailleur instructs it to move.
Almost sounds like I’m describing a mechanical drivetrain…
Transmission just makes the shift way slower so it appears to be smooth (and under load). It’s really not hard to make it try to shift outside of Sram’s pre-determined and ideal algorithm of cadence, chain/cassette position, torque… and then its a rough as you’d expect. It’s not magic, it’s just well engineered albeit flawed system.
I like my GX T-type. It’s not as smooth as my old axs hybrid setup, but it also hasn’t really skipped a beat. And remembering to charge a battery isn’t hard. I’ve had many customer’s question the battery charging but they all have the basic intelligence/initiative to fuel their car, charge their phone etc. so the concern is ways easy to counter.
It’s literally only people on this forum of supposed nerds/geeks that seem to struggle to be able to plug something in. I’ve yet to meet anyone in real life (UK and EU) that has any real issues in that department.
Given that the Spindrift is missing the refresh, it's safe to assume this is coming soon, the bike pictured is carbon, has the proper routing as well as the tourismcrap, and has a ZEB, therefore Spindrift for sure, also saw that even this one got the other "failure"update in my book, which is the rear caliper sitting inside the frame, which makes it harder to adjust the brake and not every caliper will fit ( hope for example doesn't) let's see how it is when it comes out
I actually like Sram transmission for where I ride. Northeast chunk hits your derailleur at weird times, the direct mount transmission has saved me more than once. I banged the lower cage so bad over many rocks that I replaced it about a year in - now it's perfect again. Before the transmission stuff I was stocking 5+ hangers at a time. I did wish they had a cable actuated version for transmission - although charging batteries hasn't been too much of a hassle just yet. Shifting under power also feels pretty good compared to the old GX and Shimano XTs. Don't like wireless droppers. Absolutely no gain over the cable actuated ones in each and every way. Wishing for some machinist/fabricator to somehow frankenstein a cable version of transmission - happy to pay for that.
Why is there so much backlash against frame manufactures like Santa Cruz and Specialized going electronic drivetrain only but no one is questioning what is driving that decision? With GX level AXS and transmission, and the new OEM level transmission SRAM has all but said we aren't doing mechanical shifting anymore. I have no idea what Shimano's plans are with the new Di2 replacement but my guess is that it's going to cover a wide range of performance levels to compete with SRAM, possibly even cannibalizing all their mechanical shifting options. That leaves you with CUES, which by all accounts is great but I'm not sure fills the wants of the general MTB buying public.
My point is all the hate here is directed at the frame manufactures but why would they put holes in frames if they know there soon wont be any cables to put through those holes.
You’re taking what I’m saying out of context. This is about forced obsolescence and standardization across high-end mountain bikes. Most of these innovations have benefited us and the ones that haven’t have fallen off.
Tapered head tubes, through axles, 1X drivetrains, etc. People threw themselves on the ground kicking and screaming when companies started moving to some of these things because their old stuff wasn’t compatible anymore. That’s just the thing. Without your choice.
When it comes to drivetrains, everything is really good now. We can go on and on about my XY cassette shifts smoother than your YZ blah blah. Through all of it, electronic drive trains are here to stay and have a lot of benefits. They are becoming more adopted because like it or not, our industry is being driven by e-Bikes. Electric assist bikes benefit from an electric drivetrain because of the torque involved. A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear.
More Ebikes on the market means more electric drivedrains. High-end premium bikes are just being designed to stay with that trend.
Something I find interesting about this whole thread derailment w.r.t. opinions on wireless drivetrains:
Since I started paying attention to mtb in the early 2010s, there has always been a reactionary design (or lack of design?) movement in smaller companies while the big ones drove a consumer market. When carbon-fibre frames became a more common sight in gravity-oriented riding, small companies would advertise their aluminium or steel construction. When the big corps pushed for 29-inch wheels, small companies would advertise their 27.5-inch wheeled bikes (or, for some time, 26-inch!).
But throughout this pattern (which is admittedly weak), it has always been coming from frame manufacturers. If something happens like SRAM and Shimano pruning their cable-driven options, will we start to see companies like TRP and Microshift advertise their still-cable-driven options? Will we see companies trying to appeal to the anti-wireless crowd with wide-range 9-speed drivetrains? Will we see gearboxes rise in popularity?
Looks like the wireless Fox dropper is just around the corner
How on earth did you even stop looking at the "pranks"* long enough to notice that there was a wireless fox dropper on there. Seriously, I'm all for short cranks, but I think the industry is taking this one too far.
*pegs + cranks = pranks... ok, maybe we need to work shop this one a bit, but I'm rolling with it for now.
The man took innovation to a whole new level. 0X front derailleur, shifting is synced to the cloud. I bet his headtube is double tapered.
The issue most people have is that transmission is heavy and extremely expensive. Its really that, it's driving up the overall cost of running a quality setup, and that's rightly frustrating.
This statement has been made confusing by SRAM marketing, and isn't true: "A T-Type transmission or something similar will shift better than mechanical because it knows the precise time to shift to prevent damage and premature wear. "
There is no timing, there's no sensor that knows the position of the cassette. The magic is in the cassette itself, which is designed more like an OG front dual chainring with ramps that only move the chain up when it hits those designed shift points. There are also narrow-wide elements on the largest cogs to retain the chain, presumably for back pedaling with the wide chainlines they've designed around. The cassette is a brilliant piece of kit, and is where the magic happens.
I've actually rigged up an old non-UDH bike to work with the older GX Eagle mechanical derailleur and T-Type cassette (+other req'd T-Type bits). It required some frame mods to avoid chain rubbing in the 10t, but it works brilliantly.
Thanks for calling this out, I'd love to see this myth die.
AM/ Enduro bikes (as in non-electric) will not really be a thing in 3-5 years.
I'm certain I'll get downvoted for this, heck I would have downvoted this 2 years ago, but in a world where a mid-power e-bike and a full Enduro bike has their weights converge, the bike just becomes redundant.
I pedaled my Enduro bikes for a lot of years but at this point it just seems silly to exert so much energy and ride time into the climbing portions of the ride.
Fair point about weights converging but prices are not yet converging and likely never will. The cost premium of a new Levo over a new Status is around $2,000.
Another issue is access. Here in North Carolina the only place that really justifies an ebike is Pisgah. I'd love an ebike to shorten the gravel death marches up Avery Creek and Clawhammer Roads but they are still not allowed. Maybe in 3-5 years they will be? Who knows?
I've always had a saying with bikes over 160mm of travel & are on DH casing tyres etc, 'if the trails require That kinda bike, they also require a shuttle/lift'
I would rather take my short travel ripper such as a Fluid/rift zone/new trance x(which i own and damn its good) pedal those up and put the fun level much higher.
Although, A long travel ebike.... solves all the problems🤣
Even if power density of batteries doubles (unlikely in 3-5 years) that still puts a 500w pack at 3.5-4lb. The tq50 is over 4lb and is unlikely to get much lighter than that.
I'm not sure where you save 8lb from unless Am/enduro frames get really heavy.
It’s not just the cassette that’s magic. Insiders at both Shimano and Sram have explained it to me like this:
There’s nothing timing the first movement of the derailleur except your thumb pressing the button.
The first actual chain derailment might not happen immediately however because the cassettes have been designed to very strongly encourage the shift to occur only where the gates/ramps allow it.
For subsequent shifts the system estimates how long it will take until the next gate/ramp lines up with the chain, and delays the shift until that time has elapsed so that the chain engages with teeth on every cog rather than dumping across the block. It does this based on knowing which cog you’re on, how many gates will be on the next cog, and a guess of your likely pedaling cadence depending on whether you’re shifting to a harder or easier gear.
The fastest shifting setup I’ve experienced was pre-T-Type AXS with an HG+ cassette and chain - but I broke chains, I think because it was just relying on brute force over finesse. I’ve stopped running that setup because fast shifts can’t justify a walk out of the woods. I think e-bikes are the true driver of this because there’s more power and that power doesn’t let off at the top/bottom of the pedal stroke.
Probably 5 of those 8lbs you'd want if you had assist. The other 3 is no biggy
I feel the same way. I'm never selling my current enduro bike, but I see zero reason why I need another pedal powered bike too burly for me to ever break, let alone use to its full potential.
(Haibike Nduro 8 Freeride)
I'll take a full power super enduro with a dual crown though. Kind of perplexed that there are so few of them on the market, currently. I'll take the most "moped/moto" bike I can get. 38 feels great on the pedal bike, but 40 or bust on the emtb, for sure. Shoot, real motos had "mullet" wheelsets what 50 years ago now?
(1974 Honda Elsinore 250)
Looks like the Marin DH bike is getting close to release.
Production version looks to be carbon, hope there is going to be an alloy option as well.
https://thumbsnap.com/C1LEsLiM?src=tsd
Looks Alu aswell, just looks smoother with the paint
yeah, i think you're right.
Ella Connolly wearing what looks like a new Smith full face on her Instagram both at the last edr and crankworx. Looks like a proper full face to sit alongside their enduro version the “mainline”
https://www.instagram.com/p/C9VJGhlMES1/?igsh=OTUwZWZ4aXJlZDQ2
Good close up of that helmet in the pink site's Dual Slalom photo shoot.
it‘s a new proper fullface helmet from smith, called hardline.
more news and pics on the german site
https://www.mtb-news.de/news/eurobike-2024-smith-forefront-payroll-hardline/
Pretty sure we are both saying the same thing. I didn’t say T -type was sentient. I said it “knows” the precise time to shift. Which it does. Marketing hyperbole or not.
The issue is that Transmission "knowing" the time to shift is marketing BS. There is no hardware to allow the drivetrain to know when to shift.
Transmission puts enough pressure on the chain to shift at a shift ramp/ gate, but not enough pressure to force a shift before the chain reaches ramp/gate. The drivetrain knows nothing.
This is why it's highly unlikely there will ever be a cable activated Transmission derailleur. With direct cable shifting, there is no way to prevent forcing a shift.
The key to the shifting performance of transmission is completely reliant on controlling the limited force of the derailleur.
It doesnt know the first shift but when you are banging gears it times the next shift for the gates.......... thats exactly what it does.. as per the marketing material... It works it out.
is this level of technology above your head?
I’m getting the vibe this is a word salad thing for everybody.
Maybe try this: The chain “knows” when to shift because of how the system/cassette is designed.
Or even better: the chain “knows” what to do after the derailleur instructs it to move.
Almost sounds like I’m describing a mechanical drivetrain…
Of course it doesn’t know.
Transmission just makes the shift way slower so it appears to be smooth (and under load). It’s really not hard to make it try to shift outside of Sram’s pre-determined and ideal algorithm of cadence, chain/cassette position, torque… and then its a rough as you’d expect. It’s not magic, it’s just well engineered albeit flawed system.
I like my GX T-type. It’s not as smooth as my old axs hybrid setup, but it also hasn’t really skipped a beat. And remembering to charge a battery isn’t hard. I’ve had many customer’s question the battery charging but they all have the basic intelligence/initiative to fuel their car, charge their phone etc. so the concern is ways easy to counter.
It’s literally only people on this forum of supposed nerds/geeks that seem to struggle to be able to plug something in. I’ve yet to meet anyone in real life (UK and EU) that has any real issues in that department.
Given that the Spindrift is missing the refresh, it's safe to assume this is coming soon, the bike pictured is carbon, has the proper routing as well as the tourismcrap, and has a ZEB, therefore Spindrift for sure, also saw that even this one got the other "failure"update in my book, which is the rear caliper sitting inside the frame, which makes it harder to adjust the brake and not every caliper will fit ( hope for example doesn't) let's see how it is when it comes out
T-type v cable posts here please...
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/axsdi2-etc-vs-cable-actuated-drivetrains
EDIT: I somehow missed this poll/thread when I searched and created a duplicate
https://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/hub/poll-electric-shifting-vs-mechanica…
New gambler ?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9731UWsMtx/?igsh=cXdqdHdvZDZ3cDky
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