MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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12/25/2023 8:57am
A friend at the shop I used to work at says they're getting Transmission problems all the time (mostly imprecise setup and some have had the...

A friend at the shop I used to work at says they're getting Transmission problems all the time (mostly imprecise setup and some have had the mount start 'chewing' into the frame, but no broken stays as far as I know). Seems like it's generally better suited to a high standard of frame quality and very careful setup, two things not typically associated with most mountain bikes and their riders Wink

az2au wrote:
I saw the chewing problem on a buddy's Stumpjumper Evo but I can tell you with certainty that it was his fault and not SRAMs.  He...

I saw the chewing problem on a buddy's Stumpjumper Evo but I can tell you with certainty that it was his fault and not SRAMs.  He was using an axle that "fit" but wasn't the correct one and was slightly too big and didn't torque the derailleur properly because it "stuck" when he did.  So, yeah, he's an idiot who should't be touch his bike for maintenance, but that's the way it starts chewing into the frame.

Other than the slight slipping problem I have on one bike that appears to be related to a slightly off spec cassette, I have had zero problems on the 10 bikes I have installed it on and that includes two bikes that SRAM didn't list at the time of install where I just used the chain stay length to calculate the values.  It far exceeds my expectations on working with a wide range of variables.  If you could simply microshift at the gear level the majority of issues that most have would go away.

That's what's really annoying to me because it seems like it's a completely fixable problem via new firmware (or maybe even just a software update). Hopefully...

That's what's really annoying to me because it seems like it's a completely fixable problem via new firmware (or maybe even just a software update). Hopefully it's in the works and there isn't something stupid preventing them from implementing it.

This has been a common wish from consumers about the prior AXS also. I believe that Sram is using a stepper motor with a hardware fixed movement distance for each shift. Per gear micro adjust would require a different motor.

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Primoz
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12/25/2023 9:52am

First gen MTB AXS already has micro adjust. Even if they are using a stepper motor (would make sense from some standpoints), there was information when the first derailleurs came out that they are running the motor at 10.000 rpm, so I seriously doubt that gear position can't be tuned more finely than what is available. I think the main point was to make the system as fool proof as possible (set position and thus a mount and forget product). Judging by the comments here that creates more issues.

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SteveClimber
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12/25/2023 3:10pm
Primoz wrote:
First gen MTB AXS already has micro adjust. Even if they are using a stepper motor (would make sense from some standpoints), there was information when...

First gen MTB AXS already has micro adjust. Even if they are using a stepper motor (would make sense from some standpoints), there was information when the first derailleurs came out that they are running the motor at 10.000 rpm, so I seriously doubt that gear position can't be tuned more finely than what is available. I think the main point was to make the system as fool proof as possible (set position and thus a mount and forget product). Judging by the comments here that creates more issues.

I'm specifically talking about twisting, i.e if the mount is partially twisted (off axis), the derailleur can't adjust to that (to my knowledge).

The view that we will make it so strong it won't deform and twist, is inferior in my opinion to a design where you can simply twist it back into alignment.

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FullSend
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12/27/2023 2:54am
The UDH is sacrificial, but it doesn't protect the derailleur it protects the frame. Sometime people think the replaceable derailleur hanger is to protect the derailleur...

The UDH is sacrificial, but it doesn't protect the derailleur it protects the frame.

Sometime people think the replaceable derailleur hanger is to protect the derailleur. It is not, it protects the frame.

One of the potential downsides to transmission is that without a sacrificial derailleur hanger, there is more potential to damage the frame (or hub) in a crash.

Kango wrote:

Direct from SRAM its designed to protect the derailleur and the frame.

Just to clarify. The UDH allows rotation to the rear which helps protect the derailleur, from some impacts. So yes in certain circumstances the UDH can...

Just to clarify.

The UDH allows rotation to the rear which helps protect the derailleur, from some impacts. So yes in certain circumstances the UDH can protect the derailleur. Those impact do not damage the UDH either. 

In impacts large enough to damage the UDH, the bending of the UDH primarily protects the frame. In a side impact (likely the most common) the UDH does nothing to protect the derailleur only the frame. 

UDH can save your derailleur on hard impacts, but it's just as likely to damage the frame.

I work part-time at a bike shop and so far I've seen five Orbea Frames and two Santa Cruz frames crack from being hit by the UDH. Also two Santa Cruz that were torn to shreds at the UDH mounting location by the knurling on the inside of the T-Type mount. It can and will rotate backwards and bite chunks out of your frame in the process.

Neither Orbea nor Santa Cruz accepted any of these failed frames as warranty replacements btw. They only offered crash replacement.

UDH basically does away with the derailleur hanger being a sacrificial part and instead makes the frame the weakest link of the chain.

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boozed
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12/27/2023 4:18am
FullSend wrote:
UDH can save your derailleur on hard impacts, but it's just as likely to damage the frame. I work part-time at a bike shop and so...

UDH can save your derailleur on hard impacts, but it's just as likely to damage the frame.

I work part-time at a bike shop and so far I've seen five Orbea Frames and two Santa Cruz frames crack from being hit by the UDH. Also two Santa Cruz that were torn to shreds at the UDH mounting location by the knurling on the inside of the T-Type mount. It can and will rotate backwards and bite chunks out of your frame in the process.

Neither Orbea nor Santa Cruz accepted any of these failed frames as warranty replacements btw. They only offered crash replacement.

UDH basically does away with the derailleur hanger being a sacrificial part and instead makes the frame the weakest link of the chain.

Is this UDH in general or specifically Transmission derailleurs?  Is there something particular about the design of those frames that contributes to the problem, or are they just the brands you deal with?

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birdman2447
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12/27/2023 4:37am

Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should see complete forks released and in stock? 

Also, is this this 24' damper tune the same one Jordi is talking about in the Dialed videos? 

 

Thanks!

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noodlenosteeze
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12/27/2023 11:15am
Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should...

Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should see complete forks released and in stock? 

Also, is this this 24' damper tune the same one Jordi is talking about in the Dialed videos? 

 

Thanks!

2024 obviously Smile

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1
12/27/2023 3:23pm
Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should...

Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should see complete forks released and in stock? 

Also, is this this 24' damper tune the same one Jordi is talking about in the Dialed videos? 

 

Thanks!

Chatted with my LBS today and the 2024 damper cartridge is in stock and available right now. No 2024 forks available yet, and no details on what the new cartridge entails, but Fluid Focus had posted on their Instagram a little while back comparing the 2024 tune to their grip2 custom tune. 

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SilentG
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12/28/2023 4:14am
Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should...

Fox has bunch of the new 2024 38 part numbers on there site now. Dampers, comp and rebound tune assembly, etc. Anyone know when we should see complete forks released and in stock? 

Also, is this this 24' damper tune the same one Jordi is talking about in the Dialed videos? 

 

Thanks!

Kapolczer wrote:
Chatted with my LBS today and the 2024 damper cartridge is in stock and available right now. No 2024 forks available yet, and no details on...

Chatted with my LBS today and the 2024 damper cartridge is in stock and available right now. No 2024 forks available yet, and no details on what the new cartridge entails, but Fluid Focus had posted on their Instagram a little while back comparing the 2024 tune to their grip2 custom tune. 

The Fluid Focus IG post in case anyone was interested - https://www.instagram.com/p/CzM3aLPPpEQ/

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nollak
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12/28/2023 11:52pm

Just seen in Finale Ligure:

IMG 9767

Seems like Formula has an Air Can in the works.

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Primoz
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12/29/2023 12:02am

Isn't an air shock from Formula a long known open secret? 

monarchmason
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12/29/2023 7:50am
nollak wrote:
Just seen in Finale Ligure: Seems like Formula has an Air Can in the works.

Just seen in Finale Ligure:

IMG 9767

Seems like Formula has an Air Can in the works.

Thats sick but I want that fork. To be honest if it worked at 160mm Id take it just for the advantage of having a perfectly aligned stem. I know, first world mtb problems. 

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Noeserd
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12/29/2023 12:14pm

The air can is very monarch like 

 

asdawesddfzx 0

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samdaman1
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12/29/2023 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/29/2023 2:01pm
nollak wrote:
Just seen in Finale Ligure: Seems like Formula has an Air Can in the works.

Just seen in Finale Ligure:

IMG 9767

Seems like Formula has an Air Can in the works.

Thats sick but I want that fork. To be honest if it worked at 160mm Id take it just for the advantage of having a perfectly...

Thats sick but I want that fork. To be honest if it worked at 160mm Id take it just for the advantage of having a perfectly aligned stem. I know, first world mtb problems. 

Yeah I can't tell if that's a Nero or the prototype dual crown Selva, but the latter would be an interesting product in a lot of ways, although given that not all manufacturers will let you run dual crown forks on their enduro bikes (pretty sure it voids the warranty on a Bronson for example), I'm not sure how well it would sell and if it would perhaps result in more enduro bikes with built in fork bumpers, etc

1
12/29/2023 3:07pm
samdaman1 wrote:
Yeah I can't tell if that's a Nero or the prototype dual crown Selva, but the latter would be an interesting product in a lot of...

Yeah I can't tell if that's a Nero or the prototype dual crown Selva, but the latter would be an interesting product in a lot of ways, although given that not all manufacturers will let you run dual crown forks on their enduro bikes (pretty sure it voids the warranty on a Bronson for example), I'm not sure how well it would sell and if it would perhaps result in more enduro bikes with built in fork bumpers, etc

Keep in mind a manufacturer can’t really void a warranty. They can disclaim damage due to particular things. A warranty covers a lot of stuff. If your BB starts falling out that’s not related to fork and should still be covered. But if anything starts happening to the head tube you may be out of luck. Personally I’m a fan of dual crowns because it’s really the best solution to CSU creak. Have run them on bikes that weren’t really supposed to have one and would do it again. Especially if there was a slightly lighter option. Under normal circumstances there is no additional stress on the head tube. The concern is getting crossed up and slamming the stanchion into the side. Personally I think in a scenario like that all bets are off anyway. 

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mcfadden999
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12/29/2023 6:01pm
Keep in mind a manufacturer can’t really void a warranty. They can disclaim damage due to particular things. A warranty covers a lot of stuff. If...

Keep in mind a manufacturer can’t really void a warranty. They can disclaim damage due to particular things. A warranty covers a lot of stuff. If your BB starts falling out that’s not related to fork and should still be covered. But if anything starts happening to the head tube you may be out of luck. Personally I’m a fan of dual crowns because it’s really the best solution to CSU creak. Have run them on bikes that weren’t really supposed to have one and would do it again. Especially if there was a slightly lighter option. Under normal circumstances there is no additional stress on the head tube. The concern is getting crossed up and slamming the stanchion into the side. Personally I think in a scenario like that all bets are off anyway. 

Right and will they warranty cracks from stress due to custom links?

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monarchmason
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12/29/2023 6:35pm
Keep in mind a manufacturer can’t really void a warranty. They can disclaim damage due to particular things. A warranty covers a lot of stuff. If...

Keep in mind a manufacturer can’t really void a warranty. They can disclaim damage due to particular things. A warranty covers a lot of stuff. If your BB starts falling out that’s not related to fork and should still be covered. But if anything starts happening to the head tube you may be out of luck. Personally I’m a fan of dual crowns because it’s really the best solution to CSU creak. Have run them on bikes that weren’t really supposed to have one and would do it again. Especially if there was a slightly lighter option. Under normal circumstances there is no additional stress on the head tube. The concern is getting crossed up and slamming the stanchion into the side. Personally I think in a scenario like that all bets are off anyway. 

You know, this makes me curious. Obviously frame design innovation (geo and suspension designs) is slowing down dramatically in the industry. I wonder if the next big thing will be allowing for frames to have features that make a bronson come with bumpers or have additional features like working with companies to produce after market links (I think about Cascade and the Habit mullet link). Or not I dont know.

1
12/29/2023 7:12pm

Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front of the seat tube.  Rear triangle looked compact and burly. Two tone paint job, no stickers, angles looked good. 

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12/29/2023 7:50pm
You know, this makes me curious. Obviously frame design innovation (geo and suspension designs) is slowing down dramatically in the industry. I wonder if the next...

You know, this makes me curious. Obviously frame design innovation (geo and suspension designs) is slowing down dramatically in the industry. I wonder if the next big thing will be allowing for frames to have features that make a bronson come with bumpers or have additional features like working with companies to produce after market links (I think about Cascade and the Habit mullet link). Or not I dont know.

It would definitely be cool to work with more companies on aftermarket stuff. I’m not really sure why there’s pushback with links. No one (there are a couple of exceptions) is doing different options for their own bikes. It wouldn’t really make sense from a supply chain standpoint. The volumes aren’t on the same level as complete bikes. More options are always nice to have. 

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stoic_machine
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12/30/2023 7:51am
Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front...

Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front of the seat tube.  Rear triangle looked compact and burly. Two tone paint job, no stickers, angles looked good. 

They are crazy quiet too. Was on a ride a few months back with one of the test mules and was generally surprised how quiet that bike was rambling down the mountain...

Wish they would ditch their stupid Ride 9 system though... I believe the new rig it has what they are calling "ride 4" either way it causes more confusion for the end customer than it does any good.

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dolface
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12/30/2023 8:07am
They are crazy quiet too. Was on a ride a few months back with one of the test mules and was generally surprised how quiet that...

They are crazy quiet too. Was on a ride a few months back with one of the test mules and was generally surprised how quiet that bike was rambling down the mountain...

Wish they would ditch their stupid Ride 9 system though... I believe the new rig it has what they are calling "ride 4" either way it causes more confusion for the end customer than it does any good.

They seem to gradually be moving all their models to Ride-4 (was just the Slayer and ebikes initially iirc): https://bikes.com/pages/ride-4-adjustment-system

I think they're also going to have to get rid of (or redesign) the 2-position axle to accommodate UDH...

1
12/30/2023 8:45am
Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front...

Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front of the seat tube.  Rear triangle looked compact and burly. Two tone paint job, no stickers, angles looked good. 

Did you notice if it still has adjustable chainstay length and the Ride 4/9 system?

1
12/30/2023 8:47am
Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front...

Saw the new Rocky Mountain bike in Santa Cruz today, looks like a vpp with the upper link pivot about halfway up and directly in front of the seat tube.  Rear triangle looked compact and burly. Two tone paint job, no stickers, angles looked good. 

They are crazy quiet too. Was on a ride a few months back with one of the test mules and was generally surprised how quiet that...

They are crazy quiet too. Was on a ride a few months back with one of the test mules and was generally surprised how quiet that bike was rambling down the mountain...

Wish they would ditch their stupid Ride 9 system though... I believe the new rig it has what they are calling "ride 4" either way it causes more confusion for the end customer than it does any good.

Ride 4/9 and the adjustable chainstays are the whole reason I ride their bikes.  Being able to dial in the geometry and progression level to what suits you best is mint in my opinion. 

10
12/30/2023 9:16am

Did you notice if it still has adjustable chainstay length and the Ride 4/9 system?

I didn’t. Only got a glimpse when Remi rode by. 

mcfadden999
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12/30/2023 10:50am

Right and will they warranty cracks from stress due to custom links?

You know the answer to that. Good thing it’s not happening.

Sounds like you’re a little bias, do you have any numbers to back your claims?

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ahleic09
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12/30/2023 1:19pm

Did you notice if it still has adjustable chainstay length and the Ride 4/9 system?

I didn’t. Only got a glimpse when Remi rode by. 

Looks like headset adjustable with cups? A9F4D211-101A-462B-AA5D-E7ECFFD6BF3E

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12/30/2023 2:53pm

Sounds like you’re a little bias, do you have any numbers to back your claims?

This is not a tech rumor so I’m not going to talk about this again. What I will say is we haven’t seen a single case of frame damage due to regular use. Frames are pretty overbuilt. Your wheels are more likely to blow up first. Ask me how I know. Off the top of my head, I can only remember two instances where serious frame damage occurred. One was improper installation and one was incompatible shock. We actually paid for the crash replacement frame for the incompatible shock case because there was a typo on our website that was misleading and made it seem like that shock could have worked. We take all of this very seriously on both a professional and personal level. I do not want anyone to have a broken bike just like I wouldn’t want to have a broken bike. As such we do not sell a single thing that any of us wouldn’t ride personally. Eating our own dog food is life. 
 

I feel like I’m obligated to add a tech rumor now. I think active or semi-active suspension will continue to evolve. I’d stomach that cost before the cost of an expensive wireless drivetrain. Why? Because I can see ways it would aid shock tuning without impacting packaging. You could do things like simulate bypasses for example. You could even use it to combat chasis movement under heavy braking on a bike with super low anti rise since that’s the biggest downfall of low anti rise. 

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mcfadden999
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12/30/2023 4:13pm

Sounds like you’re a little bias, do you have any numbers to back your claims?

This is not a tech rumor so I’m not going to talk about this again. What I will say is we haven’t seen a single case...

This is not a tech rumor so I’m not going to talk about this again. What I will say is we haven’t seen a single case of frame damage due to regular use. Frames are pretty overbuilt. Your wheels are more likely to blow up first. Ask me how I know. Off the top of my head, I can only remember two instances where serious frame damage occurred. One was improper installation and one was incompatible shock. We actually paid for the crash replacement frame for the incompatible shock case because there was a typo on our website that was misleading and made it seem like that shock could have worked. We take all of this very seriously on both a professional and personal level. I do not want anyone to have a broken bike just like I wouldn’t want to have a broken bike. As such we do not sell a single thing that any of us wouldn’t ride personally. Eating our own dog food is life. 
 

I feel like I’m obligated to add a tech rumor now. I think active or semi-active suspension will continue to evolve. I’d stomach that cost before the cost of an expensive wireless drivetrain. Why? Because I can see ways it would aid shock tuning without impacting packaging. You could do things like simulate bypasses for example. You could even use it to combat chasis movement under heavy braking on a bike with super low anti rise since that’s the biggest downfall of low anti rise. 

Sounding a little defensive there

76
12/30/2023 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2023 4:36pm

Sounds like you’re a little bias, do you have any numbers to back your claims?

This is not a tech rumor so I’m not going to talk about this again. What I will say is we haven’t seen a single case...

This is not a tech rumor so I’m not going to talk about this again. What I will say is we haven’t seen a single case of frame damage due to regular use. Frames are pretty overbuilt. Your wheels are more likely to blow up first. Ask me how I know. Off the top of my head, I can only remember two instances where serious frame damage occurred. One was improper installation and one was incompatible shock. We actually paid for the crash replacement frame for the incompatible shock case because there was a typo on our website that was misleading and made it seem like that shock could have worked. We take all of this very seriously on both a professional and personal level. I do not want anyone to have a broken bike just like I wouldn’t want to have a broken bike. As such we do not sell a single thing that any of us wouldn’t ride personally. Eating our own dog food is life. 
 

I feel like I’m obligated to add a tech rumor now. I think active or semi-active suspension will continue to evolve. I’d stomach that cost before the cost of an expensive wireless drivetrain. Why? Because I can see ways it would aid shock tuning without impacting packaging. You could do things like simulate bypasses for example. You could even use it to combat chasis movement under heavy braking on a bike with super low anti rise since that’s the biggest downfall of low anti rise. 

Sounding a little defensive there

You seem to be passive aggressively attacking them, no wonder they are defensive. 

Man up and plainly state your issue or STFU.

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