MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

Related:
Primoz
Posts
3569
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
783rd
8/17/2023 11:46am

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

3
ERGue
Posts
47
Joined
1/24/2014
Location
Sedro Woolley, WA US
8/17/2023 12:31pm
nskerb wrote:

The same ones that blow out every few hours and are a complete bitch to clean/grease/replace?

Dave_Camp wrote:
Only time I see needle bearings that last is in the wrist pin on a 2T engine.  But that is oiled by the premix and pretty...

Only time I see needle bearings that last is in the wrist pin on a 2T engine.  But that is oiled by the premix and pretty clean. Also high speed lower loading than suspension bits.

What about about Bearings like Moto’s and I think Push uses? Seems like the best solution to me. Allows for misalignment, side loading and of course axial rotation around the mounting bolt. 

Jakub_G
Posts
224
Joined
8/7/2019
Location
SK
8/17/2023 12:50pm
ERGue wrote:
What about about Bearings like Moto’s and I think Push uses? Seems like the best solution to me. Allows for misalignment, side loading and of course...

What about about Bearings like Moto’s and I think Push uses? Seems like the best solution to me. Allows for misalignment, side loading and of course axial rotation around the mounting bolt. 

Spherical bearings were discussed above as well, yes they are superior to every other option in terms of performance, but they don't last too long because they are typically not sealed that well. Argument that you cannot fit them because there isn't enough space is complete bullshit, price and weight, those are real reason, 16mm OD is size used on those shock that use them, vs 15mm standard eyelet. 

1
1
8/17/2023 12:55pm
Dave_Camp wrote:
Think you’d have to redesign the shock entirely to fit a large enough spherical bearing… I think RS has enough mounting options that the OEMs can...

Think you’d have to redesign the shock entirely to fit a large enough spherical bearing…

I think RS has enough mounting options that the OEMs can figure out something that works. 

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=102336

Been around since Ohlins first partnered with Specialized and discovered the joys of shock yoke extensions (esp. the ones that Specialized used to use that literally bolted the shock to the yoke)

1
THIRTYone
Posts
14
Joined
4/8/2010
Location
Camas, WA US
8/17/2023 1:44pm

Can’t say I’ve seen this bike before, so I’m guessing it’s something new from fezzari? That’s nik nestoroff on the bike. New dh bike? Or long travel bike with a 40? 3759DF23-4C3E-47BD-B6C0-D571D323F049

10
8/17/2023 2:18pm
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

image-20230817141802-1

3
jeff231
Posts
10
Joined
4/16/2016
Location
San Clemente, CA US
Fantasy
441st
8/17/2023 2:21pm

285d1e4836521a39ed23049979aff873.png?VersionId=wWPF5YV E

Poleczechy wrote:
FWIW, The new Vivid model specific offering refers to the current Slash as (2021-2023) where most other models are 20XX+) 

FWIW, The new Vivid model specific offering refers to the current Slash as (2021-2023) where most other models are 20XX+) Screenshot 2023-08-17 at 9.56.53 AM

Any indication if the model-specific shocks available aftermarket or are these just ones that will be coming on stock builds?

peecee
Posts
379
Joined
5/12/2013
Location
Brisbane AU
Fantasy
308th
8/17/2023 3:20pm
krabo83 wrote:
to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera ;)  

to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera Wink

 

IMG 9164 0

What happened here was. it a huck to flat or something or did the new GT literally implode ? "There I was just riding along" 

ShapeThings
Posts
31
Joined
8/19/2018
Location
Emeryville, CA US
8/17/2023 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2023 3:51pm
krabo83 wrote:
to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera ;)  

to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera Wink

 

IMG 9164 0

peecee wrote:

What happened here was. it a huck to flat or something or did the new GT literally implode ? "There I was just riding along" 

It was JRA during a practice run at Val Di Sole if I remember correctly. Granted, a world cup racer's JRA is beyond my mortal abilities. Frame was probably damaged at one point. Forgot details. 

1
SteveClimber
Posts
318
Joined
2/28/2023
Location
Perth, WA AU
Fantasy
2276th
8/17/2023 4:05pm
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

A big factor would be frame tolerances on cheaper bikes too, the minute you dont have nice alingment and that needle bearing has to take some axial load you would start to get issues.

Push's spherical bearings would be the best solution no?

1
8/17/2023 4:06pm
Primoz wrote:
"Another aftermarket element to the Vivid launch is the introduction of RockShox's Bearing Adapter Kits, which can replace the standard DU bushing mount with bearing hardware...

"Another aftermarket element to the Vivid launch is the introduction of RockShox's Bearing Adapter Kits, which can replace the standard DU bushing mount with bearing hardware, where frames allow (8mm ID x 30mm hardware required). This kit also fits the 2023 SuperDeluxe Coil shocks, adding some tuning options to the existing lineup. Bearing mounts can help reduce friction in the linkage, and improve the sensitivity of certain kinematics quite a bit. The Bearing Adapter Kit costs $30 USD."

Interesting to hear a bit more about this one too.

The service manual has the how-to installation, might tell you something. Yay to another single use speciality tool!

image-20230817160635-1

Dave_Camp
Posts
369
Joined
8/25/2009
Location
CO US
Fantasy
76th
8/17/2023 4:24pm
The service manual has the how-to installation, might tell you something. Yay to another single use speciality tool!

The service manual has the how-to installation, might tell you something. Yay to another single use speciality tool!

image-20230817160635-1

You can do it with 2 crescent wrenches and some patience.

 

the tool helps but not 100% required 

12
1
1llumA
Posts
101
Joined
3/11/2020
Location
CA
Fantasy
550th
8/17/2023 6:34pm

The new vivid has the option to  upgrade the reservoir to go from a select or select+ to ultimate version. I am curious if the same is possible for the Superdeluxe ? I know the ultimate version of the SD reservoir are available as separate purchase but nowhere it says if it's possible and compatible. -A select+ SD air owner that would love to upgrade to ultimate without having to buy a new tuned shock.

1
Primoz
Posts
3569
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
783rd
8/17/2023 11:11pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 2:03am
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

image-20230817141802-1

In this case I think it might have to do with manufacturability too. Machining a square tube and slapping some hard steel on it is easy compared to machining grooves for balls and needle bearings also give torsional support so you can actually steer with the single stanchion fork.

And it's also smooth as hell compared to bushings (apparently). 

1
8/18/2023 10:02am

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

2
3
8/18/2023 2:11pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

Blister claims 703g for an 8.5 x 2.5" Storia V3 with a 375# spring, so I'd assume the EXT with a spring that would fit you would still be a fair bit heavier than the Vivid. It still isn't terribly far off if you have a light spring weight, though, which is interesting. 

1
One Ghost
Posts
137
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Mukilteo, WA US
Fantasy
3287th
8/18/2023 2:31pm
Shreddy wrote:
Very affordable shredder. https://www.mtb-news.de/news/rose-scrub-erster-test/
krabo83 wrote:

alu gt fury… hope it‘s more durable 😅

krabo83 wrote:
to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera ;)  

to those who downvoted me, ask roger viera Wink

 

IMG 9164 0

I'm just happy he walked away from that. I've got one of those bikes and am not too worried about it. Though I am wondering if the green ones may be cursed. Wyn was on a green one when he crashed and broke his hand, Roger was on a green one. None of the other riders have had any issues (none others are on green ones) things that make you go hmm Whistling

1
8/18/2023 2:32pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 2:39pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

Are you seriously worried about 50g difference in shock weight on a 63mm stroke shock? I could cut my hair and lose 50g 😂

In my case where in the total system, the bike is maybe 20% of the weight, 50g especially on a performance suspension component is a trade off I’m willing to take.

6
boozed
Posts
307
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
8/18/2023 4:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/18/2023 9:05pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

The 205 mm 2021 X2 I have here weighs 663 g with hardware and one spacer.  The 2021 Super Deluxe Coil that replaced it on my bike is somewhere around 900 g, give or take, with a standard Rockshox 79 N/mm spring.

monarchmason
Posts
156
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
8/18/2023 5:28pm
Primoz wrote:
Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the...

Needle bearings carry a lot of load for their size (the surface area of the race and rolling element contacting each other is high, thus the pressures are low), but there are hardly any needle bearings out there that come as a cartridge, with seals, they don't carry axial loads (deep groove ball bearings hold up surprisingly well in that regard), etc.

For specific applications they can be great. In a shock eyelet I'd give them a pass. DU bushings are way too cheap and modern bearing mounts work too well (I'm on my original bearings in my Super Deluxe after 4 and a half seasons and 450+k vertical meters of descending).

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

Lefty had needle beerings for that reason.

image-20230817141802-1

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

7
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
8/18/2023 5:54pm
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

14
monarchmason
Posts
156
Joined
5/24/2022
Location
Nevada City, CA US
8/18/2023 6:01pm
dolface wrote:

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

Really bugs me that aesthetics dictate so much with mountain biking. 

9
8/18/2023 7:33pm

I snagged photos of a few slalom bikes from the Strait Acres Slalom Invitational happening today/tomorrow for those who also love seeing how people mod bikes for such a specialized form of racing. 

https://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/slalom-bikes-2023-strait-acres…

Personal fav - Mitch Ropelato's custom Cannondale / Kyle Strait's custom Vitus / Cody Kelley's Spesh Stumpjumper

image-20230818193237-1

image-20230818193252-2

image-20230818193317-3

13
1
lando
Posts
51
Joined
4/6/2017
Location
Missoula, MT US
Fantasy
3814th
8/19/2023 10:15am
sspomer wrote:
We Are One on the Inside Line is up - Dustin discusses racing and life and the second half is about the company, non-overseas production, products...

We Are One on the Inside Line is up - Dustin discusses racing and life and the second half is about the company, non-overseas production, products, future etc. on youtube (slideshow, not video of interview) or podcast channels too.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/we-are-one-inside-line-mountain-bike-…

WeAreOneA.jpg?VersionId=Fgpw8UN hld5YJb3eLErt

WR1 cranks and hubs?! Take my money now!

4
Onawalk
Posts
301
Joined
7/5/2021
Location
CA
8/19/2023 1:29pm
For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It...

For the 65mm stroke vivid, claimed weight is 670 grams. I just weighed my Cane Creek IL with a 450-550# coil on it, 63mm stroke. It is 720 grams. The EXT Storia is lighter for this size, but I don't remember off the top of my head the exact weight. Kinda kills the point of an air shock for me if I'm only saving 50 grams. 

If my vest had sleeves, it would be a jacket….

you’re comparing a coil in-line shock designed for a Spur, with an air shock (with piggyback) designed for a Spire or TR-11, and are surprised that they are in fact close on weight?

 

10
3
HexonJuan
Posts
141
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
8/20/2023 12:29pm
Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the...

Im probably going to get ripped apart for this, but it really surprises me that we do not have more forks like the Lefty or the Intend Bandit. It was not perfect, but given the more recent capabilities in manufacturing, we could probably make it a lot better these days. Ive heard from many (at the time) that when it was working normally, the last iteration of the Lefty was awesome. 
I know some hate the look of them, but we for some reason we have accepted massive pregnant downtube bikes to be a thing, kind of. Maybe Im not disturbed by lefty because I have not very symmetric body so its okay with me. I dont know just has me wondering. 

dolface wrote:

Bikers: We want innovation!

Also bikers: Not THAT much innovation!

See Also: Linkage forks.

10
dolface
Posts
1216
Joined
10/26/2015
Location
CA US
Fantasy
610th
8/20/2023 12:59pm
lando wrote:

WR1 cranks and hubs?! Take my money now!

Dustin seemed pretty solid that they were NOT going to be making hubs iirc...

Post a reply to: MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

The Latest