Saracen prototype!
Was this project at a discount for everyone to adopt it? intense/canyon/specialized
Saracen prototype!
Was this project at a discount for everyone to adopt it? intense/canyon/specialized
Interesting that it looks like they went with a single (low) pivot instead of the horst link like most others with this design, or is that a split pivot ala Trek?
I keep commenting really dumb shit, but I'm thinking of a couple things, SRAM related.
-they have a 4 piston Level T now, between those and...
I keep commenting really dumb shit, but I'm thinking of a couple things, SRAM related.
-they have a 4 piston Level T now, between those and the Codes, I'm assuming they will bail on guides right? Rip guide.
-No Boxxer released. Wonder if its waiting until Sea Otter, along with the Vivid looking shock.
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that more 'trail' bikes will get Codes instead (since it's such a small weight increase for way more power) but I have a feeling we will see especially low end bikes get the new Level 4 piston brakes instead. Here's hoping they're better than Guides.
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that...
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that more 'trail' bikes will get Codes instead (since it's such a small weight increase for way more power) but I have a feeling we will see especially low end bikes get the new Level 4 piston brakes instead. Here's hoping they're better than Guides.
Don't see a reason they would be, the Level lever doesn't have the swing link which means Guide R power levels...
Pinkbike has a development story about the new Sram stuff where it's mentioned the new crank is a one piece crank-and-spindle part. But the accompanying picture...
Pinkbike has a development story about the new Sram stuff where it's mentioned the new crank is a one piece crank-and-spindle part. But the accompanying picture is of a forged crank and a separate axle.
Do we have a confirmation that it is actually a single piece? That would somewhat explain the price but my god is that a saving pennies (or grams) by spending dollars kinda situation...
Also, tin foil hat on... A friend of mine mentioned the possibility the prices are this high to squarely position the new stuff in the utmost highend. That would mean high cashflows even with lower volumes. Higher margin per sold product situation. The idea is that Sram and Shimano would take over the high end stuff and leave the lower end to incoming, smaller, Asian players. Tektro and Microshift being two examples (Tektro does have TRP, I know), but there is an impending influx of Chinese brands in the lower end as well.
Looking at the road stuff and all of it going electronic big S wise, this is not an impossible idea to be honest...
Shimano just released a ton of budget/mass market products under the Cues 'groupset' so not exactly leaving the low end market to others. More like Shimano...
Shimano just released a ton of budget/mass market products under the Cues 'groupset' so not exactly leaving the low end market to others. More like Shimano doubling down on their dominance of the low/mid end of the market.
Point there, on the other hand Tiagra is the highest spec mechanical road group at the moment, meaning the highest spec group for road bikes under 2 grand.
Pinkbike has a development story about the new Sram stuff where it's mentioned the new crank is a one piece crank-and-spindle part. But the accompanying picture...
Pinkbike has a development story about the new Sram stuff where it's mentioned the new crank is a one piece crank-and-spindle part. But the accompanying picture is of a forged crank and a separate axle.
Do we have a confirmation that it is actually a single piece? That would somewhat explain the price but my god is that a saving pennies (or grams) by spending dollars kinda situation...
Also, tin foil hat on... A friend of mine mentioned the possibility the prices are this high to squarely position the new stuff in the utmost highend. That would mean high cashflows even with lower volumes. Higher margin per sold product situation. The idea is that Sram and Shimano would take over the high end stuff and leave the lower end to incoming, smaller, Asian players. Tektro and Microshift being two examples (Tektro does have TRP, I know), but there is an impending influx of Chinese brands in the lower end as well.
Looking at the road stuff and all of it going electronic big S wise, this is not an impossible idea to be honest...
Shimano just released a ton of budget/mass market products under the Cues 'groupset' so not exactly leaving the low end market to others. More like Shimano...
Shimano just released a ton of budget/mass market products under the Cues 'groupset' so not exactly leaving the low end market to others. More like Shimano doubling down on their dominance of the low/mid end of the market.
Had a chat with one of EU shimano distribution team member around new year and, to summarize, he said shimano has no plan to respond to sram on high end products for the next 5 years (shimano production schedules already full and planned until then) but is working R&D to comeback strong at that point.
There is a dentist who already called his lbs to order one because he can’t wait to stand on his derailleur before the next group ride.
with current inflation I really don’t see these as priced any more or less insanely high than original axs or the original top end 12 speed groups. Which have always been released well before the budget tier groups to get maximum returns from impulse buys by people with the money to spend.
Sram is concentrating on the ultra high end and shimano is dominant on ultra low end to mid (debatably mid/high end). There seems to be less direct competition between them for certain segments or tiers. That plus the even further reduced compatibility/interchangeability is not so good for us consumers. Sram freely licensed it's udh patent to everyone So trek or whoever can make frames that take a udh and manufacture the udh too, right? Does anyone know what the time limit on those licenses' are or if they are valid for the duration of the patent? Obviously they'd keep it free to make udh frames, but sram could decide not to renew the free licenses to manufacture udh's... Now, I'd be pretty surprised if sram pulled something that devious, and I seriously doubt so many bike companies would have gone udh if the license could expire. But it would be one hell of a thrown monkey wrench to the status quo of the industry!
Edit: anyone have aluminum foil headwear I can borrow?
Yes I realize my requests put the Epic Evo in stumpjumper territory, but the Epic Evo frame is almost 2 pounds lighter and has a 2 bottle mounts inside the frame. I’ve been doing a lot of endurance races the last couple years and my dream bike would be a lightweight 120/120 frame with 480 reach, 2 bottle holders inside the frame and downtube storage. ::first world problems::
The thing is, the lower end actually has much bigger volume, the margin is for sure lower but the numbers are huge (most of the bikes are not MTBs). Thats why overall Shimano still has much higher sales compared to SRAM who seems to be going more into premium. There could be a billion of bikes on this planet but very little of them run anything above deore/NX, let alone 600$ cogs and wireless transmission... LBS had a chance to become Specialized concept store but passed as they don't make low end bikes which in the end still make up a mojority of the sales.
Point there, on the other hand Tiagra is the highest spec mechanical road group at the moment, meaning the highest spec group for road bikes under...
Point there, on the other hand Tiagra is the highest spec mechanical road group at the moment, meaning the highest spec group for road bikes under 2 grand.
I still don't get it how having the tensioner next to the tyre and so down low is a good idea. People constantly mention how low the derailleur cages are on modern drivetrains, but those are always protected by the rear wheel while the BB gets MUCH lower at bottom out. Add a rock in there and you have a slight case of hard touching.
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now...
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now when your battery dies, you cant shift into a lower gear to get your ultra heavy bike up the hill back home!
To be fair, the way shimano do this is that the motor powers down with some charge left in the battery for the display and shifting to keep working. So you might get a few hundred meters less of range, but still plenty of shifts to get home. (That said, pedalling a full fat 24kg ebike in off is a miserable experience even on the flat.)
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that...
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that more 'trail' bikes will get Codes instead (since it's such a small weight increase for way more power) but I have a feeling we will see especially low end bikes get the new Level 4 piston brakes instead. Here's hoping they're better than Guides.
If you compare the G2 caliper and the "new" level 4 piston caliper, it is same as G2. So the new Level is G2 without swingling.
Good chance SRAM knew when Trp was dropping and scheduled for same date to bury it in the news
Lol no, that embargo date for the SRAM Transmission was set early last fall.
If anything TRP should have caught wind and not released on same day. Everyone in industry knew March 21st was end of SRAM's embargo.
Lol no, that embargo date for the SRAM Transmission was set early last fall.
If anything TRP should have caught wind and not released on same...
Lol no, that embargo date for the SRAM Transmission was set early last fall.
If anything TRP should have caught wind and not released on same day. Everyone in industry knew March 21st was end of SRAM's embargo.
I simply remember Santa Cruz doing so to we are one a few years back. Hard to compete for eyeballs with Danny mac launching a product. Guess my inner conspiracy theorist got the better of me here 😂
In reality it’s likely all these releases correspond with the big cycling convention going on right now.
I still don't get it how having the tensioner next to the tyre and so down low is a good idea. People constantly mention how low...
I still don't get it how having the tensioner next to the tyre and so down low is a good idea. People constantly mention how low the derailleur cages are on modern drivetrains, but those are always protected by the rear wheel while the BB gets MUCH lower at bottom out. Add a rock in there and you have a slight case of hard touching.
Agreed. Having the tensioner in the place of a rear derailleur location would mean a tiny bit more unsprung weight, and the lower pulley will be pulled up when suspension is near bottom out. But still rear derailleur location for the tensioner seems a lot more sensible to me.
The only reason why everything was launched yesterday is Taipei cycle show to draw people to their booths there. it's no different than Sea Otter launches....
speaking of taipei, saw this random video from the show. haven't watched it all yet, but at 8:00 - TRP ABS brakes? hardly any detail, but shows a dual-disc setup. is this old news?
@sspomer that's not a dual disc setup, the smaller, black 'rotor' is the speed sensor ring. There's an inductance (I think so?) sensor near the caliper sensing the holes and the solids thus calculating the rotational speed.
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now...
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now when your battery dies, you cant shift into a lower gear to get your ultra heavy bike up the hill back home!
It happened to me once, my AXS battery empty right after a long DH section, and I need to do a 3.5 miles slight incline climb out. Not a long climb, but it would have been painful since bike was in high gear.
Luckily, it was a weekend. So I decided to just sit down and wait... sure enough, 3 mins later, a small pack came up, and I spotted 1 rider had AXS. I kindly asked for favor to borrow his battery to make a few gear shift. Made it back to the car in lower gear 😊.
Saracen prototype!
Was this project at a discount for everyone to adopt it? intense/canyon/specialized
Interesting that it looks like they went with a single (low) pivot instead of the horst link like most others with this design, or is that a split pivot ala Trek?
Guides/G2s are being discontinued. It was mentioned in one of the overview articles but I can't remember who said it.
That leads me to hope that more 'trail' bikes will get Codes instead (since it's such a small weight increase for way more power) but I have a feeling we will see especially low end bikes get the new Level 4 piston brakes instead. Here's hoping they're better than Guides.
Don't see a reason they would be, the Level lever doesn't have the swing link which means Guide R power levels...
The Saracen does indeed look like a split pivot.
Point there, on the other hand Tiagra is the highest spec mechanical road group at the moment, meaning the highest spec group for road bikes under 2 grand.
Had a chat with one of EU shimano distribution team member around new year and, to summarize, he said shimano has no plan to respond to sram on high end products for the next 5 years (shimano production schedules already full and planned until then) but is working R&D to comeback strong at that point.
There is a dentist who already called his lbs to order one because he can’t wait to stand on his derailleur before the next group ride.
with current inflation I really don’t see these as priced any more or less insanely high than original axs or the original top end 12 speed groups. Which have always been released well before the budget tier groups to get maximum returns from impulse buys by people with the money to spend.
AXS directly powered by e-bike battery… ?
Sram is concentrating on the ultra high end and shimano is dominant on ultra low end to mid (debatably mid/high end). There seems to be less direct competition between them for certain segments or tiers. That plus the even further reduced compatibility/interchangeability is not so good for us consumers. Sram freely licensed it's udh patent to everyone So trek or whoever can make frames that take a udh and manufacture the udh too, right? Does anyone know what the time limit on those licenses' are or if they are valid for the duration of the patent? Obviously they'd keep it free to make udh frames, but sram could decide not to renew the free licenses to manufacture udh's... Now, I'd be pretty surprised if sram pulled something that devious, and I seriously doubt so many bike companies would have gone udh if the license could expire. But it would be one hell of a thrown monkey wrench to the status quo of the industry!
Edit: anyone have aluminum foil headwear I can borrow?
Yes, thats been a thing on a few bikes over the last few years. Most likely a cue towards the upcoming Sram E-bike motor system.
Now when your battery dies, you cant shift into a lower gear to get your ultra heavy bike up the hill back home!
Yes I realize my requests put the Epic Evo in stumpjumper territory, but the Epic Evo frame is almost 2 pounds lighter and has a 2 bottle mounts inside the frame. I’ve been doing a lot of endurance races the last couple years and my dream bike would be a lightweight 120/120 frame with 480 reach, 2 bottle holders inside the frame and downtube storage. ::first world problems::
The thing is, the lower end actually has much bigger volume, the margin is for sure lower but the numbers are huge (most of the bikes are not MTBs). Thats why overall Shimano still has much higher sales compared to SRAM who seems to be going more into premium. There could be a billion of bikes on this planet but very little of them run anything above deore/NX, let alone 600$ cogs and wireless transmission... LBS had a chance to become Specialized concept store but passed as they don't make low end bikes which in the end still make up a mojority of the sales.
11s mechanical 105 and ultegra is still available on 2023 model year bikes, 12 speed mechanical 105 coming soon too (https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-12-speed-mechanical/)
Sorry for the link from another website
Kavenz High pivot enduro bike with gear box. Pre order starting.
Hey we heard you like draggy high pivots, so we added a drag box to your high pivot!
embedding kavenz insta post here for the deets. they need 20 orders to make the frame
I still don't get it how having the tensioner next to the tyre and so down low is a good idea. People constantly mention how low the derailleur cages are on modern drivetrains, but those are always protected by the rear wheel while the BB gets MUCH lower at bottom out. Add a rock in there and you have a slight case of hard touching.
Drag box sounds like a tv show I would probably watch!
To be fair, the way shimano do this is that the motor powers down with some charge left in the battery for the display and shifting to keep working. So you might get a few hundred meters less of range, but still plenty of shifts to get home. (That said, pedalling a full fat 24kg ebike in off is a miserable experience even on the flat.)
If you compare the G2 caliper and the "new" level 4 piston caliper, it is same as G2. So the new Level is G2 without swingling.
Lol no, that embargo date for the SRAM Transmission was set early last fall.
If anything TRP should have caught wind and not released on same day. Everyone in industry knew March 21st was end of SRAM's embargo.
I simply remember Santa Cruz doing so to we are one a few years back. Hard to compete for eyeballs with Danny mac launching a product. Guess my inner conspiracy theorist got the better of me here 😂
In reality it’s likely all these releases correspond with the big cycling convention going on right now.
Agreed. Having the tensioner in the place of a rear derailleur location would mean a tiny bit more unsprung weight, and the lower pulley will be pulled up when suspension is near bottom out. But still rear derailleur location for the tensioner seems a lot more sensible to me.
The only reason why everything was launched yesterday is Taipei cycle show to draw people to their booths there. it's no different than Sea Otter launches....
speaking of taipei, saw this random video from the show. haven't watched it all yet, but at 8:00 - TRP ABS brakes? hardly any detail, but shows a dual-disc setup. is this old news?
@sspomer that's not a dual disc setup, the smaller, black 'rotor' is the speed sensor ring. There's an inductance (I think so?) sensor near the caliper sensing the holes and the solids thus calculating the rotational speed.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0a674e586db066287752e63566f102ad…
Motor bikes have the same setup: https://www.revzilla.com/blog_content_image/image/62260/Honda_photo.jpg
It happened to me once, my AXS battery empty right after a long DH section, and I need to do a 3.5 miles slight incline climb out. Not a long climb, but it would have been painful since bike was in high gear.
Luckily, it was a weekend. So I decided to just sit down and wait... sure enough, 3 mins later, a small pack came up, and I spotted 1 rider had AXS. I kindly asked for favor to borrow his battery to make a few gear shift. Made it back to the car in lower gear 😊.
LOL @coyoterun waiting for another axs user for battery. that's hilarious!
thanks @Primoz for info on the brakes.
here's another taipei vid just b/c they're fascinating even if not much MTB content
Chris King is back in business. 6 hole option are now available. But only for 15/20x110mm front and 12x148mm rear hubs....
https://chrisking.com/?fbclid=PAAaaKlMwU7JBEkrLGZepIDCacGs6hjXpKqCM7Vbb…
Hopefully this is not prophetic
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