Really interesting. This video plus @Erwan_Ghesquiere ’s explanation clarify the purpose, and does make me wonder what the end goal of using split clamps on a...
Really interesting. This video plus @Erwan_Ghesquiere ’s explanation clarify the purpose, and does make me wonder what the end goal of using split clamps on a “right side up” fork would be.
It displaces some of the clamp load on the tube, breaking up the concentration of clamp force into two areas. If you could off set the two clamping screws, you decrease stress on the tube. Sure, a bigger advantage in a USD, but if you can distribute stress over a larger area, the structure will be tougher overall. I have a seat clamp design that I'm working on to do much the same for dropper and carbon posts. It's not much of an issue on 31.6 and especially 34.9 posts but I've worked on a few bikes where enough force to hold the post for the rider caused the return speed to slow down. True, a dropper is more akin to a USD fork, but clamp loads affect fatigue life.
Reckon that 'backbone' piece is cast with soft tooling then post machined? If so they must be fairly certain this is what they're going with for...
Reckon that 'backbone' piece is cast with soft tooling then post machined? If so they must be fairly certain this is what they're going with for production. The funky looking chainstay looked printed to me but not so sure.
Im a process engineer at a big machine shop so I like to think Im not an idiot on this subject. This thing looks wildly expensive...
Im a process engineer at a big machine shop so I like to think Im not an idiot on this subject. This thing looks wildly expensive to make id think its some kind of casting like has been said which isn't cheap but the alternative being made out of a solid piece would be crazy expensive and I am not entirely sure possible with the angles and dimensions they have going on mostly in the seat tube area.
I think you're probably right some kind of casting and a lost core probably from 3D printing, but all of this would be pretty damn high investment for a prototype or even a niche downhill bike.
Possible stamping operation. Banshee does that with the BB/pivot/lower shock mount cradle on their bikes. You'd get near-net formed profiles and then really only need to machine in two axes. Intense does have history in sheet forming and there are shops in CA that could as well. Foes does all of their own forming too.
I think they used magnesietiam and oracale phosfate to bond the hemotubes with the aluminum alloy carsonflibers. Then they bake it in the nuketron 5000 super toaster.
Hopefully the new Sensor, I'm waiting for over a year now, is finally ready to be teased. Wyn Masters was riding it in his insta clips lately. Have seen it in person in Val di Fassa. No HP, but LTS design, unless they changed it.
Well, that looks like it's made of more unobtanium than I have. Would be nice to see maybe a collaboration between Intense and Guerrilla Gravity or...
Well, that looks like it's made of more unobtanium than I have. Would be nice to see maybe a collaboration between Intense and Guerrilla Gravity or Revel (anyone ever finalize whether the same place is making both of those frames or not) to get the price down on the Intense DH bike to be affordable.
I miss my Turner & Intense DH bikes. The amount of unique things going on with this looks the exact opposite of affordable.
Uh...Revel makes their bikes in Vietnam. Guerrilla Gravity manufacturers in Colorado.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I honestly wonder if Revved Carbon Manufacturing doesn't have a patent that CSS and others are trying to work around. Its interesting that GG hasn't made rims yet, and that CSS hasn't made a frame yet.
Ok. But it's not cheap.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I...
Ok. But it's not cheap.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I honestly wonder if Revved Carbon Manufacturing doesn't have a patent that CSS and others are trying to work around. Its interesting that GG hasn't made rims yet, and that CSS hasn't made a frame yet.
I'm not the patent expert so I could be missing the finer points but it's my impression that the revv'd carbon thing is widely used in other industries. They just put the carbon in a mold and bake it to death at really high temps so it cures faster, they've been doing that on airplane stuff for a very long time. It just requires what I assume is a million+ dollar oven. The oven's that toast sandwiches at subway cost over $20,000 so the oven industry is just fucked. Be glad we ride bikes instead.
Also just checked the website and revv'd is indeed patented. There is probably one bullshit step in the whole manufacturing process that is not really that necessary but unique to what they do so they can claim patent.
If they are cut apart deep enough, then yes, there is some logic to that (as one clamp compared to the other will rotate a bit...
If they are cut apart deep enough, then yes, there is some logic to that (as one clamp compared to the other will rotate a bit. If only half the diameter is cut, then this effect will be lessened a lot. I don't know how it's actually done, so I have no idea on the actual state.
@hitar_potar it would work. But the situation where you replace a part of the frame is practically non-existent. And doing that will add weight and complexity, not to speak about the issues (creaking, dirt buildup, making it work in the long run) that it just doesn't make sense to do it that way. The axle is designed to be taken out, the tubes not so much. Plus you'd need all of the tubes (and likely all of the lugs too, leaving just the seat tube) to change a frame size (tubes in different sizes are either angled differently or are positioned at different heights if the angle is the same.
What you could also do is use a liquid metal glue gun to join the parts together
Yeah, thought about the angles as well: best i could think of was to build-in the different angles in the tubes: the lugs are the same throughout sizes, but the tubes meat them under different angles for each size. So you bend the ends of each tube for the particular size. So, you get your kid a size S frame, but next year the kid is bigger. Instead of getting him/her a new frame, you just buy higher and lower tube for longer reach/front triangle. As for creaking - i’m pretty sure someone with bigger brain than me can think of a solution for this, you could make it with some sort of light glue/grease/something else more appropriate. As for additional weight - the last 2 years have been pretty crazy with people raving about 17-18kg enduro bikes. WTF, man?!?!?! So they’re not as crazy about light-weight as they used to be. I don’t see why such a frame can’t be in the same realm as a Norco Range HP weight-wise, for example.
Ok. But it's not cheap.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I...
Ok. But it's not cheap.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I honestly wonder if Revved Carbon Manufacturing doesn't have a patent that CSS and others are trying to work around. Its interesting that GG hasn't made rims yet, and that CSS hasn't made a frame yet.
I'm not the patent expert so I could be missing the finer points but it's my impression that the revv'd carbon thing is widely used in...
I'm not the patent expert so I could be missing the finer points but it's my impression that the revv'd carbon thing is widely used in other industries. They just put the carbon in a mold and bake it to death at really high temps so it cures faster, they've been doing that on airplane stuff for a very long time. It just requires what I assume is a million+ dollar oven. The oven's that toast sandwiches at subway cost over $20,000 so the oven industry is just fucked. Be glad we ride bikes instead.
Also just checked the website and revv'd is indeed patented. There is probably one bullshit step in the whole manufacturing process that is not really that necessary but unique to what they do so they can claim patent.
From what I can tell the bar for the bike world and patents is extremely low.
”we’re gonna get a battery from the corner store and put it in this existing product”
”look our stanctions have a ruler on them”
”the seat tube gonna be straight at his angle”
That said for most brands patenting their processes are less about defending ip as it is helping ensure from nefarious law practices a competitor or a bad party may use to take money out of your pocket.
Agreed. Unveil a bike and colors, run them (and the equipment on it) for 2 to 3 years, make a facelift (new colors, spec update), run it a further year, two or three. Why should everything have to be all new every year...
I'll wade in on the Intense debate as it's pretty interesting.
1. If you look back at the HP1 it probably used the same process as well, it was just a more simple design and thus went under the radar.
2. The fact that they are welding it in a structural application seems like it would rule out casting as most of those alloys don't like to be welded. If they where bonding that would be a different story.
3. It could be forged into the net shape, then they just machine out the core material to create the hollow shock tunnel & etc. It could explain the chatter on the ID surface (unless that done by 5dev in the rework). However the chainstays are definitely not forged as that internal bracing would be impossible to access.
4. I'm leaning towards printing. The world of metal printing is changing daily and companies like this (https://www.elementum3d.com/aluminum/) are figuring out how to print alloys like 6061. Which 6061 isn't great for welding, but welding 6061 to 6061 tubes is a lot better than some dissimilar casting alloy. Plus printing companies could be looking for more advertising/proof of application examples and any form of racing always gets a lot of eyeballs.
looks good, but still hope that their top tier groups like xx1 and x01 will keep a cable option. otherwise it‘s time to stock up on current derailleurs and shifters
I thought Shimano had a patent on clutches that constantly require service. Still if Fox puts the X2 design team on this they might be able to find a work around.
I thought Shimano had a patent on clutches that constantly require service. Still if Fox puts the X2 design team on this they might be able...
I thought Shimano had a patent on clutches that constantly require service. Still if Fox puts the X2 design team on this they might be able to find a work around.
Stoked to see the new Volcom mtb gear due this spring, per Nik Nestroff in the most recent The Inside Line podcast. You can see pics of the pants on his IG.
Stoked to see the new Volcom mtb gear due this spring, per Nik Nestroff in the most recent The Inside Line podcast. You can see pics...
Stoked to see the new Volcom mtb gear due this spring, per Nik Nestroff in the most recent The Inside Line podcast. You can see pics of the pants on his IG.
I'm excited to see it too, but that's just a rashguard in Nik's IG.
It displaces some of the clamp load on the tube, breaking up the concentration of clamp force into two areas. If you could off set the two clamping screws, you decrease stress on the tube. Sure, a bigger advantage in a USD, but if you can distribute stress over a larger area, the structure will be tougher overall. I have a seat clamp design that I'm working on to do much the same for dropper and carbon posts. It's not much of an issue on 31.6 and especially 34.9 posts but I've worked on a few bikes where enough force to hold the post for the rider caused the return speed to slow down. True, a dropper is more akin to a USD fork, but clamp loads affect fatigue life.
Possible stamping operation. Banshee does that with the BB/pivot/lower shock mount cradle on their bikes. You'd get near-net formed profiles and then really only need to machine in two axes. Intense does have history in sheet forming and there are shops in CA that could as well. Foes does all of their own forming too.
I think they used magnesietiam and oracale phosfate to bond the hemotubes with the aluminum alloy carsonflibers. Then they bake it in the nuketron 5000 super toaster.
Hopefully the new Sensor, I'm waiting for over a year now, is finally ready to be teased. Wyn Masters was riding it in his insta clips lately. Have seen it in person in Val di Fassa. No HP, but LTS design, unless they changed it.
Uh...Revel makes their bikes in Vietnam. Guerrilla Gravity manufacturers in Colorado.
Revel Wheels are made in USA by Fusion Fiber
Ok. But it's not cheap.
GG is the thermoplastic equivilent of a garage built brazed steel frame.
CSS/Fusion Fiber is a pretty high tech player.
I honestly wonder if Revved Carbon Manufacturing doesn't have a patent that CSS and others are trying to work around. Its interesting that GG hasn't made rims yet, and that CSS hasn't made a frame yet.
I'm not the patent expert so I could be missing the finer points but it's my impression that the revv'd carbon thing is widely used in other industries. They just put the carbon in a mold and bake it to death at really high temps so it cures faster, they've been doing that on airplane stuff for a very long time. It just requires what I assume is a million+ dollar oven. The oven's that toast sandwiches at subway cost over $20,000 so the oven industry is just fucked. Be glad we ride bikes instead.
Also just checked the website and revv'd is indeed patented. There is probably one bullshit step in the whole manufacturing process that is not really that necessary but unique to what they do so they can claim patent.
Any info on these new bikes??
Cannondale habit
Norco sight
Nukeproof reactor
Canyon neuron
Transition scout
Yeah, thought about the angles as well: best i could think of was to build-in the different angles in the tubes: the lugs are the same throughout sizes, but the tubes meat them under different angles for each size. So you bend the ends of each tube for the particular size. So, you get your kid a size S frame, but next year the kid is bigger. Instead of getting him/her a new frame, you just buy higher and lower tube for longer reach/front triangle. As for creaking - i’m pretty sure someone with bigger brain than me can think of a solution for this, you could make it with some sort of light glue/grease/something else more appropriate. As for additional weight - the last 2 years have been pretty crazy with people raving about 17-18kg enduro bikes. WTF, man?!?!?! So they’re not as crazy about light-weight as they used to be. I don’t see why such a frame can’t be in the same realm as a Norco Range HP weight-wise, for example.
New Cannondale habit is all over the TLD website. All of the pictures with Ropelato are of him on the new habit or what I'm assuming is the new habit.
From what I can tell the bar for the bike world and patents is extremely low.
”we’re gonna get a battery from the corner store and put it in this existing product”
”look our stanctions have a ruler on them”
”the seat tube gonna be straight at his angle”
That said for most brands patenting their processes are less about defending ip as it is helping ensure from nefarious law practices a competitor or a bad party may use to take money out of your pocket.
Not sure if this has been covered before, Spesh removing the model years ?
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/shop/bikes/mountain-bikes/c/mountain
https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/shop/bikes/e-bikes/e-mountain-bikes/c…
This is a general trend in the bike biz, and a good one IMHO. Hopefully, Trek and Giant are next.
Agreed. Unveil a bike and colors, run them (and the equipment on it) for 2 to 3 years, make a facelift (new colors, spec update), run it a further year, two or three. Why should everything have to be all new every year...
Trek switched over to Gen-# for this coming year, so all the new fuels are Gen 6, Domane's Gen 4 etc.
I'll wade in on the Intense debate as it's pretty interesting.
1. If you look back at the HP1 it probably used the same process as well, it was just a more simple design and thus went under the radar.
2. The fact that they are welding it in a structural application seems like it would rule out casting as most of those alloys don't like to be welded. If they where bonding that would be a different story.
3. It could be forged into the net shape, then they just machine out the core material to create the hollow shock tunnel & etc. It could explain the chatter on the ID surface (unless that done by 5dev in the rework). However the chainstays are definitely not forged as that internal bracing would be impossible to access.
4. I'm leaning towards printing. The world of metal printing is changing daily and companies like this (https://www.elementum3d.com/aluminum/) are figuring out how to print alloys like 6061. Which 6061 isn't great for welding, but welding 6061 to 6061 tubes is a lot better than some dissimilar casting alloy. Plus printing companies could be looking for more advertising/proof of application examples and any form of racing always gets a lot of eyeballs.
https://bikerumor.com/next-gen-sram-eagle-direct-mount-derailleur-is-mo…
looks good, but still hope that their top tier groups like xx1 and x01 will keep a cable option. otherwise it‘s time to stock up on current derailleurs and shifters
Agreed.
Carbon rear triangle for Neko's bike
Fox branching out?
Electronically controlled pawl engagement? No thanks.
https://bikerumor.com/patent-patrol-fox-factorys-suspension-enhancing-hub-and-derailleur-assembly/?fbclid=IwAR2Q2ZzT4X9WRXO8X-mCCFHhPRZwITqtZlaR8XGS6HpIAXyTVL5vn4p6Q4M
I thought Shimano had a patent on clutches that constantly require service. Still if Fox puts the X2 design team on this they might be able to find a work around.
new trp derailleur?
cody Kelley insta
Stoked to see the new Volcom mtb gear due this spring, per Nik Nestroff in the most recent The Inside Line podcast. You can see pics of the pants on his IG.
Lol @ the X2 memes
I'm excited to see it too, but that's just a rashguard in Nik's IG.
https://www.volcom.com/products/iconic-stone-collage-ls-black?variant=3…
if you watch the podcast there's footage we filmed of him riding in the new gear (listening only is so 2022 : )
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/nik-nestoroff-inside-line-mtb-podcast
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