MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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Uncle Cliffy
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12/20/2022 11:12am
 Lots of good photos and info on their blog: https://intensecycles.com/blogs/news/searching-for-speed-intense-m279-hp6-dh-prototype Don't know why it's geo-restricted, but choose your location here: https://linktr.ee/INTENSECYCLES    

 Lots of good photos and info on their blog: https://intensecycles.com/blogs/news/searching-for-speed-intense-m279-h…

Don't know why it's geo-restricted, but choose your location here: https://linktr.ee/INTENSECYCLES

 

 

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vweb
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12/20/2022 11:12am
Primoz wrote:
Very likely not the only one, but I don't think it's much of a problem. As for serial vs. proto, the bonded joint is also riveted...

Very likely not the only one, but I don't think it's much of a problem.

As for serial vs. proto, the bonded joint is also riveted together, so even if the bond fails, it's still secured in place and won't cause a destructive failure. Don't see that being used in serial production and don't see lugs like these being used in serial production. Milling them will be a PITA compared to just welding tubes, 3D printing them is a no-go looking at what the Athertons are doing (the dream bike build video), it's simply not scalable. There are possible solutions to it all, talking about serially produced bonded bikes, but I'm not sure how they would work out in the field.

@maximumradness that's very clearly a Loic Bruni LB logo. And a Red Bull helmet. And very clearly the components the Specialized team is running. If it was to be Evil, what are they doing these days at all?

Maybe the lugs could be forged.

 

...just sayin'

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Primoz
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12/20/2022 11:59am
Primoz wrote:
Very likely not the only one, but I don't think it's much of a problem. As for serial vs. proto, the bonded joint is also riveted...

Very likely not the only one, but I don't think it's much of a problem.

As for serial vs. proto, the bonded joint is also riveted together, so even if the bond fails, it's still secured in place and won't cause a destructive failure. Don't see that being used in serial production and don't see lugs like these being used in serial production. Milling them will be a PITA compared to just welding tubes, 3D printing them is a no-go looking at what the Athertons are doing (the dream bike build video), it's simply not scalable. There are possible solutions to it all, talking about serially produced bonded bikes, but I'm not sure how they would work out in the field.

@maximumradness that's very clearly a Loic Bruni LB logo. And a Red Bull helmet. And very clearly the components the Specialized team is running. If it was to be Evil, what are they doing these days at all?

vweb wrote:

Maybe the lugs could be forged.

 

...just sayin'

Not the way they are configured now, it would require a whole lot of after machining Smile

As for the Intense bike, commenting it all being CNCd I was going off the blog post and pictures where only the downtube and the top tube are actual tubes, the whole shock cradle/seattube/BB area and both the seatstay and the chainstay are CNCd. As per @Uncle Cliffy post.

As for georestricting...
https://i.imgur.com/UNFAmP3.png

What in all that is holy is going on in that video?? :D

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dom
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12/20/2022 1:10pm

good question 

kcy4130
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12/20/2022 1:46pm

This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level if this is just another proto aluminum mule to test before committing to a carbon mold. I could be wrong but to me it looks like it might be a early/pre production run to verify before mass production. The idea of a competitive and good looking Intense Al dh bike makes me feel all warm and nostalgically fuzzy inside. 

 

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nsp234
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12/20/2022 4:07pm
kcy4130 wrote:
This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level...

This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level if this is just another proto aluminum mule to test before committing to a carbon mold. I could be wrong but to me it looks like it might be a early/pre production run to verify before mass production. The idea of a competitive and good looking Intense Al dh bike makes me feel all warm and nostalgically fuzzy inside. 

 

It sure looks quite refined, it's gonna be interesting where they head from here. If they stick with alu I'd be surprised if they use such a huge cnc'd piece. The bike in the pics looks like it could be made from forged parts, like the current banshees. But maybe its just a step between and it all ends up in carbon...

2
12/20/2022 9:53pm
sspomer wrote:
partz

partz

That's a really complex part to be machined in one piece, mainly because of the inside part of the chainstay. Also looks like has a "sandblasted" finish kinda like all the 3d printed parts have, I wonder if it's 3d printed aluminum. 

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Primoz
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12/20/2022 10:28pm

Good point actually, it does kinda look like it's layered too. Though the seatstay is smooth and shiny and anodized, so that one looks lik it's CNCd. The shock cradle does look similar to the chainstay too, so could be 3D printed too. How does 3D printed aluminium weld to aluminium tubes? Is it doable?

nsp234
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12/20/2022 10:32pm

In their blog they claim one of those "backbones" to be cnc'd. Unclear as to whether this extends to the small batch seen in other pics. 

12/21/2022 2:39am

Quite an attractive looking design I must say.

Very slack seat angle which isn't an issue for a DH bike perhaps but if this design ever sees an evolution to a freeride/Enduro version some proper alterations would have to be made to get a more useable seat angle and dropper length.

bizutch
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12/21/2022 6:15am

Well, that looks like it's made of more unobtanium than I have.  Would be nice to see maybe a collaboration between Intense and Guerrilla Gravity or Revel (anyone ever finalize whether the same place is making both of those frames or not) to get the price down on the Intense DH bike to be affordable.

I miss my Turner & Intense DH bikes. The amount of unique things going on with this looks the exact opposite of affordable.

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kcy4130
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12/21/2022 6:38am

The photo of the back end with ohlins shock looks 3d printed, because it is. Just Nylon to check fitment. The cnc'd aluminum backbone has that texture probably due to being bead blasted or sand blasted to clean up tool path marks. Looks like they roughed it out, then bead blasted, then put in other fixtures to mill bearing interfaces and precision things. It's also possible they left some fixturing tabs on the outside of the part that were saw cut off, ground flush then bead blasted to give it a uniform surface finish. 

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jonkranked
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12/21/2022 6:54am Edited Date/Time 12/22/2022 6:59am
Id imagine 3m already has the required bonding products and this bike in many ways would be easier to engineer/produce from a skill perspective than layered...

Id imagine 3m already has the required bonding products and this bike in many ways would be easier to engineer/produce from a skill perspective than layered carbon.  Perhaps specialized is considering new methods of constructing their top of the line Mtb’s.  

the tech to bond carbon tubes to metal lugs has existed for a long time. a guy I knew in college (early/mid 00's) was making steel DH bikes.  He also made a couple of XC hardtails that had seat and chain stays that were carbon tubes bonded into steel lugs. i think he made like 3 of them. I know at least one of them is still in active use.  i regret not having him build me one.

 

edit/correction: it was lugged carbon seat stays and top tube, not chain stays. 

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jonkranked
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12/21/2022 7:28am
kcy4130 wrote:
This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level...

This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level if this is just another proto aluminum mule to test before committing to a carbon mold. I could be wrong but to me it looks like it might be a early/pre production run to verify before mass production. The idea of a competitive and good looking Intense Al dh bike makes me feel all warm and nostalgically fuzzy inside. 

 

wonder if this is gonna be fully US made. not that overseas factories can't make high quality bikes. because heritage and stuff. 

3
12/21/2022 7:32am
kcy4130 wrote:
This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level...

This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level if this is just another proto aluminum mule to test before committing to a carbon mold. I could be wrong but to me it looks like it might be a early/pre production run to verify before mass production. The idea of a competitive and good looking Intense Al dh bike makes me feel all warm and nostalgically fuzzy inside. 

 

jonkranked wrote:

wonder if this is gonna be fully US made. not that overseas factories can't make high quality bikes. because heritage and stuff. 

Doubtful, but I’d love to be proven wrong. Likely machined just enough parts for testing and the photo op. 

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jonkranked
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12/21/2022 7:37am
kcy4130 wrote:
This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level...

This does not look like a prototype anymore, far from it. The attention to detail is pretty high. I'm not sure they'd go to that level if this is just another proto aluminum mule to test before committing to a carbon mold. I could be wrong but to me it looks like it might be a early/pre production run to verify before mass production. The idea of a competitive and good looking Intense Al dh bike makes me feel all warm and nostalgically fuzzy inside. 

 

jonkranked wrote:

wonder if this is gonna be fully US made. not that overseas factories can't make high quality bikes. because heritage and stuff. 

Doubtful, but I’d love to be proven wrong. Likely machined just enough parts for testing and the photo op. 

yea, i'm not holding my breath, but it would certainly be cool.  I seem to recall hearing that when they switched to carbon (aka  overseas)  that Steber managed to hang on to just enough equipment to build protos. 

FullSend
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12/21/2022 9:24am

Wow....Intense just dropped this M279 HP6 update.  Looks amazing.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmZaVCkj_-C/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 Lots of good photos and info on their blog: https://intensecycles.com/blogs/news/searching-for-speed-intense-m279-hp6-dh-prototype Don't know why it's geo-restricted, but choose your location here: https://linktr.ee/INTENSECYCLES    

 Lots of good photos and info on their blog: https://intensecycles.com/blogs/news/searching-for-speed-intense-m279-h…

Don't know why it's geo-restricted, but choose your location here: https://linktr.ee/INTENSECYCLES

 

Citing Intense's website:

 

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design"

"The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design."

"And something we believe is best achieved from this 6-Link."

 

Nope, wrong. That is not a six-bar suspension system. 

It has four links which influence the axle path. As such, it's a four-bar. The additional two members only influence the leverage ratio of the rear shock.

This is the one thing I really strongly dislike about Intense. They go HARD on the bullshit marketing lingo.

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TimBud
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12/21/2022 10:44am Edited Date/Time 12/21/2022 10:48am
FullSend wrote:
Citing Intense's website:   "The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design" "The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design." "And...

Citing Intense's website:

 

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design"

"The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design."

"And something we believe is best achieved from this 6-Link."

 

Nope, wrong. That is not a six-bar suspension system. 

It has four links which influence the axle path. As such, it's a four-bar. The additional two members only influence the leverage ratio of the rear shock.

This is the one thing I really strongly dislike about Intense. They go HARD on the bullshit marketing lingo.

Hence they're calling it 6 LINK, not 6 BAR. Smile

To put some context in there from the horses mouth:

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design. Now I am sure there will be plenty of people out there that think they know what is going on with all those links and pivots, but can you just try and explain it in simple turns?

Our M279 HP6 is the result of a close understanding of the current competitive landscape, race circuit, and suspension characteristics. We set out to make a bike that can win races at any level. While remaining fun and comfortable at the bike park. This involved detailed analysis of everything from single pivot to true 6-Bar. Each of those tends to offer strengths and weaknesses. Great for certain aspects and bike categories. This 6-Link high pivot provided us with the most neutral combination of kinematics for modern DH racing."

8
kcy4130
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12/21/2022 10:49am

I bet a large part of the reason they went with the "six link" (i.e. horst with a linkage driven shock) was not just for kinematics. Possibly not even primarily for kinematics, but because it made the packaging way easier. The "gravy boat" and ellsworth rocker proto Dak and Gwin raced must have had pretty decent kinematics, but it left a lot to be desired in looks and practicality. 

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Cordall
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12/21/2022 11:11am

Can someone explain how the linkage works? I can't get my head around it. Where does the bottom of the vertical link go? (that the rear of the shock connects to) 

1
krabo83
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AT
12/21/2022 11:37am
FullSend wrote:
Citing Intense's website:   "The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design" "The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design." "And...

Citing Intense's website:

 

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design"

"The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design."

"And something we believe is best achieved from this 6-Link."

 

Nope, wrong. That is not a six-bar suspension system. 

It has four links which influence the axle path. As such, it's a four-bar. The additional two members only influence the leverage ratio of the rear shock.

This is the one thing I really strongly dislike about Intense. They go HARD on the bullshit marketing lingo.

well and you went HARD not reading properly as it‘s been stated intense calls it 6-links not 6-bar. Wink

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Primoz
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12/21/2022 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 12/21/2022 12:54pm
FullSend wrote:
Citing Intense's website:   "The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design" "The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design." "And...

Citing Intense's website:

 

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design"

"The 6-Link adds an obvious degree of freedom to the suspension design."

"And something we believe is best achieved from this 6-Link."

 

Nope, wrong. That is not a six-bar suspension system. 

It has four links which influence the axle path. As such, it's a four-bar. The additional two members only influence the leverage ratio of the rear shock.

This is the one thing I really strongly dislike about Intense. They go HARD on the bullshit marketing lingo.

TimBud wrote:
Hence they're calling it 6 LINK, not 6 BAR.  To put some context in there from the horses mouth: "The M279 HP6 is a high pivot...

Hence they're calling it 6 LINK, not 6 BAR. Smile

To put some context in there from the horses mouth:

"The M279 HP6 is a high pivot 6-Link design. Now I am sure there will be plenty of people out there that think they know what is going on with all those links and pivots, but can you just try and explain it in simple turns?

Our M279 HP6 is the result of a close understanding of the current competitive landscape, race circuit, and suspension characteristics. We set out to make a bike that can win races at any level. While remaining fun and comfortable at the bike park. This involved detailed analysis of everything from single pivot to true 6-Bar. Each of those tends to offer strengths and weaknesses. Great for certain aspects and bike categories. This 6-Link high pivot provided us with the most neutral combination of kinematics for modern DH racing."

Fuck me, you're right...
Geezus and the marketing angle...

@Cordall look at Canyon's Sender or Specialized's Demo and Enduro, same basic layout.

2
12/21/2022 11:39pm

It's been mentioned several times, in neko's Videos or on Dailed, that these 6 link bike require quite precise manufacturing in order to work exactly as intended. A few millimeters of manufacturing tolerance can influence the performance of the kinematics in a bad way. Maybe Intense needs the precision of CNC milled components in order to make the suspension work properly. If you are searching for minimal gains on a Worldcup winning Bike, this could be necessary to get the optimal performance.

1
RonJon
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Wallingford GB
12/22/2022 1:48am

Reckon that 'backbone' piece is cast with soft tooling then post machined? If so they must be fairly certain this is what they're going with for production. The funky looking chainstay looked printed to me but not so sure.

Looks cool though!

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