MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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haen
Posts
91
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CA US
7/27/2021 12:55pm
Losifer wrote:
Interesting… I have a new ‘21/‘22 Onyx that has a few upgrades. The graphics are new, maybe the one in this pic got to Freehub before...
Interesting…

I have a new ‘21/‘22 Onyx that has a few upgrades. The graphics are new, maybe the one in this pic got to Freehub before those new graphics were ready?

“The biggest changes are the lowers are a new casting and the bushings are new from a different manufacturer that allows us to get the tolerance down to 0.01mm”

“The uppers are a new coating with a new press process thats so far has eliminated any creeking and has a massive reduction in friction”

“We have a new air piston, new damper seal head, new bladder, compression tune, new air bleeders and a firmer OTT spring seat to prevent any rattle” (stolen from a thread from another forum)
Sounds more like a whole new fork as opposed to a few upgrades.
2
grambo
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CA
7/27/2021 1:55pm
Primoz wrote:
I specifically did not mention reach that much. Reach is useful for DH and park bikes. For bikes that need to be pedaled, to me, the...
I specifically did not mention reach that much. Reach is useful for DH and park bikes. For bikes that need to be pedaled, to me, the top tube is much more important. The Privateer 161 has a reach of 515 in the largest size, size 4. My Bird is, as mentioned, 522 in XL. The top tube comparison is 630 mm vs. 680 mm between the Privateer and AM9. The Medium-Long AM9 has a top tube of 630 mm.

Sittin on a Large AM9, I DO NOT want to ride an L. Let alone a medium-long. Because of the top tube.

Want a correctly fitting top tube (cockpit) and a steep seat tube? The reach will be long. Want a 'normal' or even short reach and a steep seat tube? Prepare for an insanely short cockpit (90 mm stem anyone?). 'Normal' reach and a proper cockpit fit? Slack seat tube.

I specifically mentioned shorter chainstays and a steeper headtube, but not a shorter top tube.

The long reach did not come about for the sake of the bike being long. The long reach came about because of the seat tubes getting steeper and cockpits (in the case of companies doing it the right way cockpit fit wise) staying at the correct length. That increases the reach. As for why the cockpit length matters, it's simple (as I've said many times before) - bikes that get pedalled make the rinder spend... 90 % of all the energy riding/climbing seated. Seated fit is the most important thing of any bike like that. Any bike that gets pedalled. If you're an EWS level rider (or a serious racer) there could be an argument made about prioritising for descending fit, but most weekend warriors and 'just riding along' riders benefit most from the seated fit, energy expenditure wise.
That's assuming that people pedal for the sake of pedaling. Only reason why I accept to pedal hours is to spend minutes riding downhill and considering...
That's assuming that people pedal for the sake of pedaling. Only reason why I accept to pedal hours is to spend minutes riding downhill and considering how many people accept to pedal heavy DH tires uphill, you argument doesn't seem valid at least for the AM/Enduro crowd. I'd rather do 10% less elevation during my spin if that means that every single downhill is done with the best possible conditions.
This. I agree with their point that riders spend the most amount of time and energy seated and climbing, but I would think the majority of customers buying aggressive geometry bikes with 150+mm travel are climbing for the descent and that is where they want the performance. Otherwise why wouldn't they buy XC bikes with flat bars/negative rise stems (besides marketing of cousre).

Another long torso guy here, 5'10" 30" inseam, current bike is 27.5 462mm reach (50mm stem), 613mm ETTL, 76.5 ESTA, 65.5 HTA, 1215mm WB. New bike is mullet, 480mm reach (40mm steam, so really it's +8mm reach from old bike), 603mm ETTL 78.1 ESTA, 63.5 HTA, 1266mm WB. It's going to be a decent jump in size for sure, for climbing it's mostly FSR's here so not really concerned, I only care about descending.

Funnily enough I ride a size "small" road bike (54cm TTL, 49.5cm STL).
Primoz
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7/27/2021 2:04pm
Well if descending performance is be all, end all for some people's riding, why buy an enduro bike? Why not go full DH bike?

Also, a lot of people buy too much bike for what and how they ride. Plus my logic is, if you save energy on the climbs, it'll be easier to compensate for the gear on the descents, as you'll be less fatigued.
Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
7/27/2021 2:05pm
Can someone just start a BICKERING ABOUT GEOMETRY thread so that we can get on with TECH RUMORS here?
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jofish
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GB
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2031st
7/27/2021 4:15pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
You really don't know what you are talking about and I really have no interest in going around and around on this topic with you. The...
You really don't know what you are talking about and I really have no interest in going around and around on this topic with you.

The fact is that Pivot and some others are correct when they say that they don't need as steep as a static STA to equal others dynamic STA because their suspension does in fact ride higher. It's a fact.
Sorry we didn’t realise it was a fact. You should have said so sooner. Can probably close this thread now that rational discussion has been abandoned.
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NateMob
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Ogden, UT US
7/27/2021 5:06pm Edited Date/Time 7/27/2021 5:07pm
BACK ON TRACK FFS.

Looks like a new (or maybe just cut) DHR2ish tire on the front of Rude's bike from this past weekend's BME race in Big Sky. Side knobs look different to me.


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Primoz
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7/27/2021 10:24pm
Big Bird wrote:
Can someone just start a BICKERING ABOUT GEOMETRY thread so that we can get on with TECH RUMORS here?
Yeah, sorry, it's my fault again :/
1
1
Masjo
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Ancaster CA
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7/28/2021 6:42am
All these rumours and reviews of boutique and expensive suspension and Pidcock goes and wins a gold medal on Suntour suspension. Stock Fourstrokes come with Fox Suspension, so I wonder why he opted to switch it out when Ineos doesn't have a 'suspension' sponsor? Pinarello did make a 'full suspension' road bike for Paris-Roubaix but it's not clear what suspension brand (if any) they collaborated with for that model.
2
7/28/2021 7:14am
NateMob wrote:
BACK ON TRACK FFS. Looks like a new (or maybe just cut) DHR2ish tire on the front of Rude's bike from this past weekend's BME race...
BACK ON TRACK FFS.

Looks like a new (or maybe just cut) DHR2ish tire on the front of Rude's bike from this past weekend's BME race in Big Sky. Side knobs look different to me.


Doesn't look any different to me tbh
NateMob
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7/28/2021 8:26am
They never should've cut the Vantage from their lineup.
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TheArbez
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Santa Fe, NM US
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7/28/2021 5:24pm
https://intense951.com/

Anyone seen the 951 series from Intense? Haven't paid attention to their bikes to know the context these bikes are landing in, but seems like an interesting little offshoot from the main brand.
1
jazza_wil
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whistler, BC CA
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7/28/2021 6:32pm
TheArbez wrote:
https://intense951.com/ Anyone seen the 951 series from Intense? Haven't paid attention to their bikes to know the context these bikes are landing in, but seems like...
https://intense951.com/

Anyone seen the 951 series from Intense? Haven't paid attention to their bikes to know the context these bikes are landing in, but seems like an interesting little offshoot from the main brand.
1/2 way down page 127
1
dirtyberd
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Manchester, MA US
7/29/2021 5:40am
Big Bird wrote:
Can someone just start a BICKERING ABOUT GEOMETRY thread so that we can get on with TECH RUMORS here?
Primoz wrote:
Yeah, sorry, it's my fault again :/
it may be your fault, but all is forgiven considering your consistent thoughtful conversation on this forum sir primoz.
6
WheelBased
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-, CO US
7/29/2021 9:13am
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear to be any holes in the bar, so it should fit a standard bar. Also, this should be rotationally adjustable, unlike prior systems that were in fixed positions. Good pictures in this one too, if you want to check it out.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/07/29/handlebar-integrated-master-cylinder-assembly-by-sram/
9
metadave
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7/29/2021 10:03am
WheelBased wrote:
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear...
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear to be any holes in the bar, so it should fit a standard bar. Also, this should be rotationally adjustable, unlike prior systems that were in fixed positions. Good pictures in this one too, if you want to check it out.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/07/29/handlebar-integrated-master-cylinder-assembly-by-sram/
*Throw's chair across the room

This will be great to deal with at work...
14
LookinForIt
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7/29/2021 11:56am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2021 11:58am
metadave wrote:
*Throw's chair across the room

This will be great to deal with at work...
Only works on specific bars...

Seems like at least you can remove one at a time...
I guess it does cut down on chances of ruining a cylinder, but it also feels like more to go wrong...
It seems it extends bar width too, so instead of occasionally ruining a cylinder from a crash, you can now occasionally ruin a cylinder from cutting too close to a tree/rock/gate

oh and did I mention specific bars? You just watch they'll make the hole proprietary somehow


7/29/2021 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2021 1:55pm
Not the greatest pic but it looks like Ohlins is trying some kind of gold coating on the shaft of the TTX (off Chris Grice’s vlog)


13
brash
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AU
7/29/2021 2:59pm
Probably titanium nitride (Ti-N) Ohlins have been using it on their MX kit forks for a while now. Slippery stuff!
2
big b
Posts
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Location
harrisburg, PA US
7/29/2021 3:33pm
New Dub bar/stem standard coming in at 33.99??
9
7/29/2021 3:35pm
WheelBased wrote:
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear...
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear to be any holes in the bar, so it should fit a standard bar. Also, this should be rotationally adjustable, unlike prior systems that were in fixed positions. Good pictures in this one too, if you want to check it out.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/07/29/handlebar-integrated-master-cylinder-assembly-by-sram/
metadave wrote:
*Throw's chair across the room

This will be great to deal with at work...
With all due respect to the engineers who figured out how to make this system feasible... I hate it and I hope it never makes it into production. The integrated-everything trend in the road world puts aesthetics (and, to a lesser degree, aerodynamics) above serviceability (or affordability--a lot of race bikes now are electronic/wireless drivetrain only) and I get a sinking feeling every time I see mountain bike companies following that trend.

Reminds me of this:

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/is-there-any-worse-than-a-plastic-engine-cover/
3
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
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7/29/2021 3:39pm
brash wrote:
Probably titanium nitride (Ti-N) Ohlins have been using it on their MX kit forks for a while now. Slippery stuff!
2002 boxxer TiNi

13
metadave
Posts
1000
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CA
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2320th
7/29/2021 4:39pm
WheelBased wrote:
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear...
Looks like SRAM are working on a new integrated braking system, similar to the Magura MCI system. The big advantages here are that there don't appear to be any holes in the bar, so it should fit a standard bar. Also, this should be rotationally adjustable, unlike prior systems that were in fixed positions. Good pictures in this one too, if you want to check it out.

https://wheelbased.com/2021/07/29/handlebar-integrated-master-cylinder-assembly-by-sram/
metadave wrote:
*Throw's chair across the room

This will be great to deal with at work...
With all due respect to the engineers who figured out how to make this system feasible... I hate it and I hope it never makes it...
With all due respect to the engineers who figured out how to make this system feasible... I hate it and I hope it never makes it into production. The integrated-everything trend in the road world puts aesthetics (and, to a lesser degree, aerodynamics) above serviceability (or affordability--a lot of race bikes now are electronic/wireless drivetrain only) and I get a sinking feeling every time I see mountain bike companies following that trend.

Reminds me of this:

https://www.drivingline.com/articles/is-there-any-worse-than-a-plastic-engine-cover/
Exactly. I appreciate it exists, but as a shop mechanic you've basically got to start charging a sliding scale for work being done. For example, changing a cable/housing on an external bike vs an internal bike vs an integrated bike that basically requirements me to disassemble the entire bike. It's not actually improving end user experience.

So if someone buys a bike that meets their needs performance wise but takes 2 hours to replace a small part, they're now $140+ dollars in labor. I've had one recently that ended up having to replace two brake hoses because of how tight everything was from the factory just to replace the stem and bar after a fitting. To get the new one through, the BB had to come out. Of course it was press fit which didn't come out well so the BB needed to be replaced as the plastic housing cracked. The cables and housing also needed to be replaced for a 10mm longer stem and a 20mm wider bar which would have been 20 minutes including a bar wrap for a regular set up. For the customer, his 5600$ road bike cost 300$ to fit and ended up being a couple hundred in parts and labor as well, and it's hard to explain to a customer why he's paying for a new pressfit BB because the BB on his brand new bike exploded during removal because careful removal wasn't really working. Or does the shop now just eat the cost of this? That's insane and wasteful and it's just looking to get worse. It's not helping 99% of riders out there.
11
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TEAMROBOT
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Los Angeles, CA US
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7/29/2021 4:47pm
Metadave you just described a horror movie for me. I would throw that bike in the garbage if I had to do all that to swap to a **slightly** longer stem length.

Oh, but who cares about adjusting bike fit on a high performance road bike, amiright?
3
peecee
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7/29/2021 5:36pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2021 5:37pm
sspomer wrote:
2002 boxxer TiNi [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/29/11215/s1200_Screen_Shot_2021_07_29_at_4.38.35_PM.jpg[/img]
2002 boxxer TiNi

Just incase people thought the image was still loading and we reverted back to dial up internet haha



8
Primoz
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7/29/2021 8:36pm
GUILLO wrote:
New Rallon? [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/07/29/11216/s1200_3DDF4C13_0AE2_43FB_B43A_3FB5EB2731C1.jpg[/img]
New Rallon?
Apparently it's in the works, yes.
metadave
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CA
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2320th
7/29/2021 9:44pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Metadave you just described a horror movie for me. I would throw that bike in the garbage if I had to do all that to swap...
Metadave you just described a horror movie for me. I would throw that bike in the garbage if I had to do all that to swap to a **slightly** longer stem length.

Oh, but who cares about adjusting bike fit on a high performance road bike, amiright?
My life is a horror movie
3
farozm
Posts
12
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Location
SG
7/30/2021 2:43am
Losifer wrote:
Interesting… I have a new ‘21/‘22 Onyx that has a few upgrades. The graphics are new, maybe the one in this pic got to Freehub before...
Interesting…

I have a new ‘21/‘22 Onyx that has a few upgrades. The graphics are new, maybe the one in this pic got to Freehub before those new graphics were ready?

“The biggest changes are the lowers are a new casting and the bushings are new from a different manufacturer that allows us to get the tolerance down to 0.01mm”

“The uppers are a new coating with a new press process thats so far has eliminated any creeking and has a massive reduction in friction”

“We have a new air piston, new damper seal head, new bladder, compression tune, new air bleeders and a firmer OTT spring seat to prevent any rattle” (stolen from a thread from another forum)

Does your fork looks something similar to this?
1

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