It's something like the old Equilink system Felt used to sport back in the day, isn't it?
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used that up until 2019, or at least that's the latest I can find.
New evil insurgent. Full details are up on their website. 168mm rear with mullet or full 27.5 setups available. Seems like every brand is hopping on the mullet bandwagon now. Also up on the vital homepage
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used...
I can't see the lower link, but judging by the vertical link it seems like it's the same as the Equilink system. I think Felt used that up until 2019, or at least that's the latest I can find.
Definitely similar to equilink, I'm guessing the lower link 'grows' a lot through the travel. It might not be a high pivot bike, but it's defo got a very rearward axle path, hence the idler. Seems like they tested the more simple high single pivot to focus on the rearward axle path and chain growth first, but now that that's dialed they're thinking "let's keep a good rearward axle path but see where we can make improvements over a single pivot." Defo the next step.
If it is close to equilink suspension like I assume, I'd be tempted to look into one. Had an old ass compulsion (2009 frame) but I rode it for years, absolutely loved the rear suspension. The rest of the geo was pretty rough, but the rear suspension always felt great. Even when I ran it as a slopestyle bike, 100% solid.
It does appear the instant center on the new prototype is lower than the previous Supreme, thus the "virtual high pivot" is lower than previous physical high pivot. I am having a hard time figuring out what's going on with the lower links though and the lack of detailed photos seems deliberate.
I'm sure we'll see more photos through the weekend.
@Jason your IC drawing is not correct, the chainstay has another link attaching it to the front triangle.
And yeah, it is very much what Felt...
@Jason your IC drawing is not correct, the chainstay has another link attaching it to the front triangle.
And yeah, it is very much what Felt used with the Equilink. Color me impressed, Commencal bucking the single pivot trend!
You are right - despite my zoom-in efforts I missed that lower link. From my amateur suspension analysis, in that case it should put the virtual pivot in a similar high position as the current Supreme. High pivot riders rejoice
Also some tight cable routing with this current prototype, wonder if the rear brake looks the same.
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in the crossover of the chainstays and the top link. Which is quite similar to what you drew, but a bit lower still!
While the pivot is relatively low, and will be like that through most of the travel, the axle path is still rearwards as the bottom pivot rotates backwards and essentially lengthens the rear end. I suspect that's why the idler is there, to compensate for the chainstay length increasing through the travel and prevent high pedal kickback.
From the quick though that I've had about six bar linkages, I suspect it's the same as with a four bar linkage, look at the axle mounting link, take the two links defining the position of it, draw lines through the two of them and define the IC. The only catch with the IC in this case is that it will travel around more and/or differently, than with a four bar layout.
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing.
10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I expect can change under load, likely on microspline. Wonder if they are using a stronger wider chain or if it is just a reduced 12spd cassette and chain? An actual 7-speed design with the new shifting tech would be interesting but likely a lot of work that probably wouldn't justify the $$$...
The new derailleur looks interesting but wonder if there is actually anything new going on there?
Cranks look to be similar to typical XT style? Haven't seen the brake levers yet but I would expect them to have the new mounting design and be basically the same as the XT/XTR. The calipers look largely the same unless there is something new going on inside that they have implemented from the other 4-pot designs in the shimano range? Hopefully sorted out the pad fin rattle... and oh, the bite point wandering...?
Wonder if they have a 220mm rotor or sticking to 200mm?
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing.
10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I...
Looks like incremental updates at best, likely just catching up to what the rest of the Shimano range is doing.
10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I expect can change under load, likely on microspline. Wonder if they are using a stronger wider chain or if it is just a reduced 12spd cassette and chain? An actual 7-speed design with the new shifting tech would be interesting but likely a lot of work that probably wouldn't justify the $$$...
The new derailleur looks interesting but wonder if there is actually anything new going on there?
Cranks look to be similar to typical XT style? Haven't seen the brake levers yet but I would expect them to have the new mounting design and be basically the same as the XT/XTR. The calipers look largely the same unless there is something new going on inside that they have implemented from the other 4-pot designs in the shimano range? Hopefully sorted out the pad fin rattle... and oh, the bite point wandering...?
Wonder if they have a 220mm rotor or sticking to 200mm?
i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd.
shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a 220 rotor with the new saint group.
i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd.
shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd...
i hope the shifter gets the double downshift feature that was introduced on 11spd.
shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a 220 rotor with the new saint group.
The old saint already has the double downshift and 4-times upshift
Coming from the gravel/road scene, VeloNews published an article on unreleased gravel bikes being ridden at Unbound. My eye was caught by the new Trek Checkpoint, specifically the cassette which to my eye/counting looks like it has a 40-44 tooth cog. I assume this would be a new 12-speed option for SRAM using the XD or XDr freehub with a 10-tooth small cog and could be appealing to those looking for a smaller cassette like Shimano's 10-45.
I assume Eagle derailleurs would be able to deal with this, though curiously the bike has a Red eTap derailleur, which is currently only offered with a 33 tooth max option. Maybe this will be a crossover item for gravel and MTB?
Link: https://www.velonews.com/gallery/new-and-unreleased-trek-checkpoint-fel…
New (unwrapped) Pivot enduro bike? Seen in the background of the latest Bernard Kerr LSD.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/09/10926/s1200_Screenshot_2021_06_09_at_19.21.28.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2021/06/09/10927/s1200_Screenshot_2021_06_09_at_19.21.51.jpg[/img]
New (unwrapped) Pivot enduro bike? Seen in the background of the latest Bernard Kerr LSD.
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in the background of one of the pit set-up clips.
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in...
There was a clip of BK manualing a red something w/ an orange 36/38 in someone's story (forget whose), and another clip of it wrapped in the background of one of the pit set-up clips.
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in...
Jason the pivot actually doesn't look all that high. The instant centre of rotation for the seat stay (the link the axle is on) is in the crossover of the chainstays and the top link. Which is quite similar to what you drew, but a bit lower still!
While the pivot is relatively low, and will be like that through most of the travel, the axle path is still rearwards as the bottom pivot rotates backwards and essentially lengthens the rear end. I suspect that's why the idler is there, to compensate for the chainstay length increasing through the travel and prevent high pedal kickback.
From the quick though that I've had about six bar linkages, I suspect it's the same as with a four bar linkage, look at the axle mounting link, take the two links defining the position of it, draw lines through the two of them and define the IC. The only catch with the IC in this case is that it will travel around more and/or differently, than with a four bar layout.
Pinkbike's suspension geometry guessing with my IC estimations laid over (the thick lines). This is based on my quoted ramblings on the previous page about the two links connecting to the 'axle link' define the IC of the 'axle link', thus driving the antisquat and brake jack calculations.
EDIT: I'm doubting the correctness of all of this.
If it is close to equilink suspension like I assume, I'd be tempted to look into one. Had an old ass compulsion (2009 frame) but I rode it for years, absolutely loved the rear suspension. The rest of the geo was pretty rough, but the rear suspension always felt great. Even when I ran it as a slopestyle bike, 100% solid.
I'm sure we'll see more photos through the weekend.
And yeah, it is very much what Felt used with the Equilink. Color me impressed, Commencal bucking the single pivot trend!
https://youtu.be/5ovNYybL2OE?t=214
This video gets interesting at ~3:35min
If what they're saying in here is true, it's surprising Equilink didn't get more attention. Maybe it will now under Commencal.
Also some tight cable routing with this current prototype, wonder if the rear brake looks the same.
Good look at some new Saint
While the pivot is relatively low, and will be like that through most of the travel, the axle path is still rearwards as the bottom pivot rotates backwards and essentially lengthens the rear end. I suspect that's why the idler is there, to compensate for the chainstay length increasing through the travel and prevent high pedal kickback.
From the quick though that I've had about six bar linkages, I suspect it's the same as with a four bar linkage, look at the axle mounting link, take the two links defining the position of it, draw lines through the two of them and define the IC. The only catch with the IC in this case is that it will travel around more and/or differently, than with a four bar layout.
10 tooth 7-speed cassette, which I expect can change under load, likely on microspline. Wonder if they are using a stronger wider chain or if it is just a reduced 12spd cassette and chain? An actual 7-speed design with the new shifting tech would be interesting but likely a lot of work that probably wouldn't justify the $$$...
The new derailleur looks interesting but wonder if there is actually anything new going on there?
Cranks look to be similar to typical XT style? Haven't seen the brake levers yet but I would expect them to have the new mounting design and be basically the same as the XT/XTR. The calipers look largely the same unless there is something new going on inside that they have implemented from the other 4-pot designs in the shimano range? Hopefully sorted out the pad fin rattle... and oh, the bite point wandering...?
Wonder if they have a 220mm rotor or sticking to 200mm?
shimano recently launched 220 rotors for like cargo bikes or something, i'd be surprised if they didn't have a 220 rotor with the new saint group.
That X01 crank isn't something that looks like it already exists.
New Schwalbe Wicked Will.
I assume Eagle derailleurs would be able to deal with this, though curiously the bike has a Red eTap derailleur, which is currently only offered with a 33 tooth max option. Maybe this will be a crossover item for gravel and MTB?
Link: https://www.velonews.com/gallery/new-and-unreleased-trek-checkpoint-fel…
Pinkbike's suspension geometry guessing with my IC estimations laid over (the thick lines). This is based on my quoted ramblings on the previous page about the two links connecting to the 'axle link' define the IC of the 'axle link', thus driving the antisquat and brake jack calculations.
EDIT: I'm doubting the correctness of all of this.
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