I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR...
I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR E. Plus one of the main reasons EDR E is only in Europe is because, we all have the same speed restrictions. Plus shipping batterys around the world is frowned apon.
The UK national race series has only just introduced ebikes this year and there was still 1000s of riders on normal bikes. We won't wake up news years day 2025 and all be riding ebikes.
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR...
I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR E. Plus one of the main reasons EDR E is only in Europe is because, we all have the same speed restrictions. Plus shipping batterys around the world is frowned apon.
The UK national race series has only just introduced ebikes this year and there was still 1000s of riders on normal bikes. We won't wake up news years day 2025 and all be riding ebikes.
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that...
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
Exactly. I would like to see the breakdown of the numbers for off-road use (mountain biking) vs commuting of those e-bikes.
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that...
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
Looks like Danny Hart's off Cube. Apologies if its already been mentioned pages ago.
If MacDonald goes to Yeti could Danny return to Mondraker?
Although it's great they made a DH frame for Richie to do a few races on, it's a huge leap to then have a Yeti Factory Team on the WC. Especially if they don't have a product (DH bike) in production to actually benefit from it.
I think it makes more sense for Yeti to do it slow, they already have RR. Maybe for 2025 they have a DH team with RR and a young pinner or two and throttle back on EDR if it's still around. They traditionally have been more of a development team for DH racing anyway, and Richie seems like a Yeti lifer.
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that...
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that...
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
doesn‘t matter, its gonna be less and less with each coming year, there is a clear trend in the last years
sold MTB 2017 269500
sold...
doesn‘t matter, its gonna be less and less with each coming year, there is a clear trend in the last years
sold MTB 2017 269500
sold MTB 2018 271700 = + 2200
sold MTB 2019 215500 = - 56200
sold MTB 2020 152200 = - 63300
sold MTB 2021 141000 = - 11200
sold MTB 2022 95600 = - 45400
sold EMTB 2018 245000 = + 90200
sold EMTB 2019 360400 = + 144900
sold EMTB 2020 585000 = + 224600
sold EMTB 2021 680000 = + 95000
sold EMTB 2022 836000 = + 156000
(all numbers germany)
Very interesting data, and quite surprising too.
I'm collecting this kind of data for austria for trail advocavy-work and it's very hard to find. The sources I found don't separate MTB and non-MTB. Where did you get your data from? Mine also only show the percentage of ebikes overall climbing from 20 to only almost 50% share of total bikes being sold. So I'm quote astonished that in germany the market share of EMTB would be that high (e.g.800K to 90k eMT
. Do you have total numbers of bikes being sold too? Can you share your sorces?
I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR...
I know it seems to be the hot topic but think about it.
They won't just bin EDR. There's loads of teams that don't race EDR E. Plus one of the main reasons EDR E is only in Europe is because, we all have the same speed restrictions. Plus shipping batterys around the world is frowned apon.
The UK national race series has only just introduced ebikes this year and there was still 1000s of riders on normal bikes. We won't wake up news years day 2025 and all be riding ebikes.
For sure we won’t wake up all riding e-bikes
however, from a mtb racing point of view, WBD only want a viable TV entity, enduro isn’t this. E-EDR can be more so.
from sources I know it will be happening.
even if the UK “National” series has just taken on e-bikes
enduro is the gran fondo of the mtb world. Mass participation and soon to be not a global world sport.
I know that there is a tangential connection to team rumors, but the correlation is getting really thin.
Any way y'all could move the EMTB sales...
I know that there is a tangential connection to team rumors, but the correlation is getting really thin.
Any way y'all could move the EMTB sales talk to a different thread?
Apologies. Didn’t mean for this to go sideways. I think this is a solid topic for discussion, but not amongst the rumor thread since people are looking for hard numbers now. Anyway a mod would please take the relevant part of the conversation and start a new thread for it?
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to this being a fact rather than a rumor. Look at Ibis, just released a new enduro race bike and then quits the sport? Hmmm...
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to...
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to this being a fact rather than a rumor. Look at Ibis, just released a new enduro race bike and then quits the sport? Hmmm...
We know ESO doubled team fees in downhill, does anyone know if they did similarly wit Enduro?
Increasing cost + poor coverage + poor sales = cost cutting for manufacturers. Racing is always one of the first marketing expenses to be cut. ESO treating Endro like second class race series last year can't have helped.
We know ESO doubled team fees in downhill, does anyone know if they did similarly wit Enduro?
Increasing cost + poor coverage + poor sales =...
We know ESO doubled team fees in downhill, does anyone know if they did similarly wit Enduro?
Increasing cost + poor coverage + poor sales = cost cutting for manufacturers. Racing is always one of the first marketing expenses to be cut. ESO treating Endro like second class race series last year can't have helped.
They would have increased the same amount as DH. The rate increase relates to how many disciplines a team does ie if you have a Enduro, DH and XC teams then you saw the biggest increase and pay the most - 23k euros.
They would have increased the same amount as DH. The rate increase relates to how many disciplines a team does ie if you have a Enduro...
They would have increased the same amount as DH. The rate increase relates to how many disciplines a team does ie if you have a Enduro, DH and XC teams then you saw the biggest increase and pay the most - 23k euros.
Love how you have to be ''Invited'' to pay such a ridiculous amount for a bunch of thin air.
Love how you have to be ''Invited'' to pay such a ridiculous amount for a bunch of thin air.
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that bad compared to other sports?
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that...
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that bad compared to other sports?
You're right that it might not seem that bad compared to other sports. But if you then look at the prize money these world cups pay out, it's neigh impossible for all Elite Mtb Teams (Max 15 if I'm correct) to break even on prize money to match their spendings on the fee.
So yes, 23K is much less than F1's 700K entry fee for example, But I'm not aware of many high-level sports where being a top10 team in the world doesn't get you your entry fee back.
Anyway, I hope there's gonna be some positive developments in the coming years. As racing is just too rad to go away like this.
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that...
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that bad compared to other sports?
I thought they had to pay for pits separately as they're controlled by the venue?
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to...
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to this being a fact rather than a rumor. Look at Ibis, just released a new enduro race bike and then quits the sport? Hmmm...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
Well THAT sucks. Will teams get anything for the extra cash they have to pony up or nah?
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
I just don't get this move to all E-EDR. I don't know anyone who is asking for this...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
I just don't get this move to all E-EDR. I don't know anyone who is asking for this...
Dang, they're going to have to change the format, the rules, and standardize equipment (and cheater monitoring) i.e. power output and battery size to succeed.
To televise it I'm imagining a much more boring version of mx- ebike short track or something else horribly stupid to watch but quite fun to participate/race (it might be sick to have 50 riders on a short dh and aggro uphill loop). I also don't think the broadcasting competition for powered events has been well considered i.e. mxgp, motogp, supercross, etc (all of which are 1 million times more exciting).
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to...
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to this being a fact rather than a rumor. Look at Ibis, just released a new enduro race bike and then quits the sport? Hmmm...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
What do you mean by trade team and non trade team?
In 23, Elite uci team was 11000€ and uci team was 5000€ so if it's 11500 and 5500 in 24, it's not a big increase.
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to...
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
Dang, they're going to have to change the format, the rules, and standardize equipment (and cheater monitoring) i.e. power output and battery size to succeed.
To...
Dang, they're going to have to change the format, the rules, and standardize equipment (and cheater monitoring) i.e. power output and battery size to succeed.
To televise it I'm imagining a much more boring version of mx- ebike short track or something else horribly stupid to watch but quite fun to participate/race (it might be sick to have 50 riders on a short dh and aggro uphill loop). I also don't think the broadcasting competition for powered events has been well considered i.e. mxgp, motogp, supercross, etc (all of which are 1 million times more exciting).
Also, let’s remember that Germany has a pretty amazing commuter program for its citizens. I spoke with a winemaker on a trip May this year that said the government subsidized half the cost of his decoy that he uses for commuting to work, work, and play. Not sure if the oil moguls here in the USA would allow something like that to happen. Amazing concept that would be really neat to see happen. Were it to happen it’d still take me the same amount of time to get to and from work everyday here in New England. #hopesanddreams
Damn that's a big difference in numbers would love to know for other countries..
Exactly. I would like to see the breakdown of the numbers for off-road use (mountain biking) vs commuting of those e-bikes.
doesn‘t matter, its gonna be less and less with each coming year, there is a clear trend in the last years
sold MTB 2017 269500
sold MTB 2018 271700 = + 2200
sold MTB 2019 215500 = - 56200
sold MTB 2020 152200 = - 63300
sold MTB 2021 141000 = - 11200
sold MTB 2022 95600 = - 45400
sold EMTB 2018 245000 = + 90200
sold EMTB 2019 360400 = + 144900
sold EMTB 2020 585000 = + 224600
sold EMTB 2021 680000 = + 95000
sold EMTB 2022 836000 = + 156000
(all numbers germany)
Although it's great they made a DH frame for Richie to do a few races on, it's a huge leap to then have a Yeti Factory Team on the WC. Especially if they don't have a product (DH bike) in production to actually benefit from it.
I think it makes more sense for Yeti to do it slow, they already have RR. Maybe for 2025 they have a DH team with RR and a young pinner or two and throttle back on EDR if it's still around. They traditionally have been more of a development team for DH racing anyway, and Richie seems like a Yeti lifer.
It matters with regards to racing.
Selling 100,000 emtbs that are ridden only on road for commuting has zero correlation to demand for E-Enduro racing.
and you really think those 90k non motorized ones were all enduros? you high?
I am more shocked that they showing nearly 1 million bikes sold in one year.
Nope, but you sound high or do you just not understand math?
You are the one trying to equate all ebike sales in a large bike commuting country to demand for E-Enduro racing.
Yet you imply that normal bike sales don't = Enduro bikes or Enduro racing demand. You can't even make a logically consistent argument.
Very interesting data, and quite surprising too.
I'm collecting this kind of data for austria for trail advocavy-work and it's very hard to find. The sources I found don't separate MTB and non-MTB. Where did you get your data from? Mine also only show the percentage of ebikes overall climbing from 20 to only almost 50% share of total bikes being sold. So I'm quote astonished that in germany the market share of EMTB would be that high (e.g.800K to 90k eMT
. Do you have total numbers of bikes being sold too? Can you share your sorces?
AT:
Jahr /Stk. Räder/ebikes/bikes/%-e
2016 397.000 85.536 311.464 22%
2017 414.000 121.146 292.854 29%
2018 475.000 156.750 318.250 33%
2019 439.000 171.210 267.790 39%
2020 479.000 191.600 287.400 40%
2021 490.000 220.500 269.500 45%
2022 506.000 247.940 258.060 49%
I know that there is a tangential connection to team rumors, but the correlation is getting really thin.
Any way y'all could move the EMTB sales talk to a different thread?
For sure we won’t wake up all riding e-bikes
however, from a mtb racing point of view, WBD only want a viable TV entity, enduro isn’t this. E-EDR can be more so.
from sources I know it will be happening.
even if the UK “National” series has just taken on e-bikes
enduro is the gran fondo of the mtb world. Mass participation and soon to be not a global world sport.
Apologies. Didn’t mean for this to go sideways. I think this is a solid topic for discussion, but not amongst the rumor thread since people are looking for hard numbers now. Anyway a mod would please take the relevant part of the conversation and start a new thread for it?
thank you back to the rumors at hand!
Well, No EDR in 2025 is a big rumor, so I guess that bit belongs here.
I'm still convinced the exodus of teams is due to this being a fact rather than a rumor. Look at Ibis, just released a new enduro race bike and then quits the sport? Hmmm...
We know ESO doubled team fees in downhill, does anyone know if they did similarly wit Enduro?
Increasing cost + poor coverage + poor sales = cost cutting for manufacturers. Racing is always one of the first marketing expenses to be cut. ESO treating Endro like second class race series last year can't have helped.
They would have increased the same amount as DH. The rate increase relates to how many disciplines a team does ie if you have a Enduro, DH and XC teams then you saw the biggest increase and pay the most - 23k euros.
Love how you have to be ''Invited'' to pay such a ridiculous amount for a bunch of thin air.
Danny to Frameworks!!
him or Aaron Gwinn
Are you sure they are paying for "thin air"? Maybe 23K for three teams worth of pit space, race entries and media rights isin't actually that bad compared to other sports?
You're right that it might not seem that bad compared to other sports. But if you then look at the prize money these world cups pay out, it's neigh impossible for all Elite Mtb Teams (Max 15 if I'm correct) to break even on prize money to match their spendings on the fee.
So yes, 23K is much less than F1's 700K entry fee for example, But I'm not aware of many high-level sports where being a top10 team in the world doesn't get you your entry fee back.
Anyway, I hope there's gonna be some positive developments in the coming years. As racing is just too rad to go away like this.
I thought they had to pay for pits separately as they're controlled by the venue?
Some of this is correct.
Some is really dang close
can 90% confirm no EDR in 2025 as it will all be E-EDR. DH will be top 15 teams only. Fees went through the roof to register for '24. A trade team is now 11,500 Euro and a non-trade team will be 5500 Euro.
Well THAT sucks. Will teams get anything for the extra cash they have to pony up or nah?
I just don't get this move to all E-EDR. I don't know anyone who is asking for this...
Manufacturers maybe? I don't think many people who ride or watch other forms of racing are too interested.
Dang, they're going to have to change the format, the rules, and standardize equipment (and cheater monitoring) i.e. power output and battery size to succeed.
To televise it I'm imagining a much more boring version of mx- ebike short track or something else horribly stupid to watch but quite fun to participate/race (it might be sick to have 50 riders on a short dh and aggro uphill loop). I also don't think the broadcasting competition for powered events has been well considered i.e. mxgp, motogp, supercross, etc (all of which are 1 million times more exciting).
What do you mean by trade team and non trade team?
In 23, Elite uci team was 11000€ and uci team was 5000€ so if it's 11500 and 5500 in 24, it's not a big increase.
This format could easily be televised:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=480&v=PaBix1n43sk&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fm.pinkbike.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
And the racing was rad for sure 🤣
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